Noisy V8 Vantage engine at idle?
Discussion
Dear AM Forum,
I'd welcome your experience and recommendations regarding my Vantage. I've owned my manual 4.7 for the last 2 years, but right from day 1 I've been concerned about what I think is an excessively noisy engine at idle. Comparing my car to a others there appears to be a significant chain like clatter at rest. Increase the revs to ~1500 or when driving normally and it largely goes away. It's pretty noticeable though when stationary/idling. I have dropped it into a couple of main dealers and their view is they all do that to some extent or it's not as bad as some. Last week I had the car MOT'd separately from main dealer service and while the garage was very complimentary of the condition of my 9 year old, 20,000 mile car, the main engineer took me to one side and said I really should be concerned about the engine clatter/thrashing/chattering.
So given main AM dealers have said this noise is not uncommon, I'd love to know if others on this forum have experienced noisy Vantage 4.7 engines at idle? Is it really a common condition? And if you also have had a similar issue, were you able to get it fixed under warranty and how you went about getting your AM dealer to take it seriously? (My car is still covered under extended warranty).
Thanks in advance!
I'd welcome your experience and recommendations regarding my Vantage. I've owned my manual 4.7 for the last 2 years, but right from day 1 I've been concerned about what I think is an excessively noisy engine at idle. Comparing my car to a others there appears to be a significant chain like clatter at rest. Increase the revs to ~1500 or when driving normally and it largely goes away. It's pretty noticeable though when stationary/idling. I have dropped it into a couple of main dealers and their view is they all do that to some extent or it's not as bad as some. Last week I had the car MOT'd separately from main dealer service and while the garage was very complimentary of the condition of my 9 year old, 20,000 mile car, the main engineer took me to one side and said I really should be concerned about the engine clatter/thrashing/chattering.
So given main AM dealers have said this noise is not uncommon, I'd love to know if others on this forum have experienced noisy Vantage 4.7 engines at idle? Is it really a common condition? And if you also have had a similar issue, were you able to get it fixed under warranty and how you went about getting your AM dealer to take it seriously? (My car is still covered under extended warranty).
Thanks in advance!
We've had a well documented engine problem on here
https://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&...
Best of luck and let us know how you get on.
https://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&...
Best of luck and let us know how you get on.
macdeb said:
Register the noise with the warranty people and ask for an inspection, don't just drive and hope for the best. Also, have you made a video the noise? You could send that too. I'd be happy to listen to it with an honest opinion.
^^ Do it in writing or email, also to your local dealer, saying you are concerned about the engine failing in the near future and say that you want a report on the noise and its source. Interesting to ask them whether you should continue driving it.If not too inconvenient, worthwhile going to a specialist and telling them it's under warranty, so they know it will hopefully be dealt with under the warranty, and ask for their opinion - you may have to pay for this and fair enough. Then you will have an independent expert view. I did this with my baulking gearbox and it gave me confidence to say 'no. they don't all do that' - even though I didn't;t need to as my dealer was great!
I have first hand experience of this and it's a painful process.
Without hearing your car it could be virtually anything and could be very serious indeed but I wouldn't be surprised if it was just tappet bucket shim failure as mine was. I had dealers telling me "they all do that sir" but they so clearly don't so don't be put off. To cut a long story short I got an independent report which finally got a second dealer to take me seriously and get it sorted. Amazingly, this involved putting a new engine in the car rather than fixing the relatively simple problem. Even more amazingly the new engine then developed the same fault within a year. At that stage I couldn't take any more and got the Indy to fix it rather than starting all over again and being without my car for another few months.
The question I ask myself is why would AML behave like this? The only answer I can come up with is that the problem is so common (and essentially benign) that they have an official policy of denial so the flood gates don't open costing them many thousands fixing all the rattly V8s out there. I hope I'm wrong because that's a really s
tty approach to customer service.
So, if the dealer won't take you seriously, get an independent report then insist the dealer send a sound file to Gaydon along with your report and insist they sort it but be prepared to be without your car for a while. This is all assuming you have warranty and they agree to do it on warranty. If not, take it to an Indy and they will fix it. Good luck.
Without hearing your car it could be virtually anything and could be very serious indeed but I wouldn't be surprised if it was just tappet bucket shim failure as mine was. I had dealers telling me "they all do that sir" but they so clearly don't so don't be put off. To cut a long story short I got an independent report which finally got a second dealer to take me seriously and get it sorted. Amazingly, this involved putting a new engine in the car rather than fixing the relatively simple problem. Even more amazingly the new engine then developed the same fault within a year. At that stage I couldn't take any more and got the Indy to fix it rather than starting all over again and being without my car for another few months.
The question I ask myself is why would AML behave like this? The only answer I can come up with is that the problem is so common (and essentially benign) that they have an official policy of denial so the flood gates don't open costing them many thousands fixing all the rattly V8s out there. I hope I'm wrong because that's a really s
tty approach to customer service.So, if the dealer won't take you seriously, get an independent report then insist the dealer send a sound file to Gaydon along with your report and insist they sort it but be prepared to be without your car for a while. This is all assuming you have warranty and they agree to do it on warranty. If not, take it to an Indy and they will fix it. Good luck.
Thank you for guidance! I'll look to get audio samples of my engine and the comparison 4.7 and provide them to my AM dealer (in the UK). See where that takes me.
In the meantime, if anyone else has experienced similar "idle chattering". Do let me know if it's common and how you resolved it! Yes, I know there is a double meaning in there somewhere :-)
I'm really interested to know whether the AM dealers view that 'they all do that sir' is accurate or whether every other owner bar me has a turbine smooth v8 at idle!
In the meantime, if anyone else has experienced similar "idle chattering". Do let me know if it's common and how you resolved it! Yes, I know there is a double meaning in there somewhere :-)
I'm really interested to know whether the AM dealers view that 'they all do that sir' is accurate or whether every other owner bar me has a turbine smooth v8 at idle!
I was told by the supplying dealer that I had injector noise, yeah right. You should not be able to hear injectors outside the car, and it's an extremely light almost 'flicking' sound and not ticking/knocking. Some dealers are better than others and my local dealer (Grange, B'ham) are superb, whereas my supplying dealer (Charles Hurst, Belfast) were full of st! I have to add that Aston Martin have been heads and shoulders above any make I've encountered before and I hope they may get rid of the seriously bad dealers that will get them a bad name. Salesmen and managers move on, the brand stays with the possible bad reputation they provide.
t! I have to add that Aston Martin have been heads and shoulders above any make I've encountered before and I hope they may get rid of the seriously bad dealers that will get them a bad name. Salesmen and managers move on, the brand stays with the possible bad reputation they provide.Hi Darren!
The noise your engine exhibited was coming from the dry sump system (chain / scavenge pump), and whilst a tad clattery and embarrassing for a premium car to make that sort of sound, it was not a wear state or any problem that needed fixing because the tolerance within those components is fixed / will be the same for the life of that engine meaning the clatter (most prominent at idle) will never get any worse.
Some engines clatter from the sump, some don’t, depends on the tolerances within components from build.
Injector noise is indeed a light flicking sound which I’m sure nobody can confuse as being anything close to a problem / a death rattle.
The problem Pete had (twice!) was a valve tappet shim clearance issue which has a cyclic metallic ticking sound to it, totally different than a injector sound and the commonly heard sump clatter. The failure is the tappet shim within the bucket moves position and the valve head hammers the shim into the roof of the bucket creating the excessive clearance between cam and bucket, the ticking sound occurs because the cam hits the bucket instead of the shim keeping the cam and bucket continually in contact with each other (of course separated by an oil film). The error state is either bucket / shim or valve head material quality or dimensional tolerance, and whilst not a common fault, the fault is seen on a fair few cars these days, so many that the factory surely must be aware of the issue I’d of thought!?
If the problem is on the exhaust cam, the shim can be changed with the engine in-situ, if inlet cam / shim it’s an engine out job.
OP, as someone has suggested, post a link to a YouTube clip of your engine running at idle / fully warm, place your phone and record from both above the open bonnet and below the car next to the rear of drivers and passengers front wheel and I’ll do best to identify the sound.
The noise your engine exhibited was coming from the dry sump system (chain / scavenge pump), and whilst a tad clattery and embarrassing for a premium car to make that sort of sound, it was not a wear state or any problem that needed fixing because the tolerance within those components is fixed / will be the same for the life of that engine meaning the clatter (most prominent at idle) will never get any worse.
Some engines clatter from the sump, some don’t, depends on the tolerances within components from build.
Injector noise is indeed a light flicking sound which I’m sure nobody can confuse as being anything close to a problem / a death rattle.
The problem Pete had (twice!) was a valve tappet shim clearance issue which has a cyclic metallic ticking sound to it, totally different than a injector sound and the commonly heard sump clatter. The failure is the tappet shim within the bucket moves position and the valve head hammers the shim into the roof of the bucket creating the excessive clearance between cam and bucket, the ticking sound occurs because the cam hits the bucket instead of the shim keeping the cam and bucket continually in contact with each other (of course separated by an oil film). The error state is either bucket / shim or valve head material quality or dimensional tolerance, and whilst not a common fault, the fault is seen on a fair few cars these days, so many that the factory surely must be aware of the issue I’d of thought!?
If the problem is on the exhaust cam, the shim can be changed with the engine in-situ, if inlet cam / shim it’s an engine out job.
OP, as someone has suggested, post a link to a YouTube clip of your engine running at idle / fully warm, place your phone and record from both above the open bonnet and below the car next to the rear of drivers and passengers front wheel and I’ll do best to identify the sound.
Now that new users can post again!.....
Thank you for all the detailed information. Very helpful.
I've also managed to record samples of engine start at cold and warm recorded from underneath the car behind the OSF wheel. I also have recordings from above the engine bonnet up, but honestly there isn't much difference so haven't uploaded them as yet.
You can listen to the files on YouTube here...
https://m.youtube.com/channel/UCIwkr5f0VgJ7rRdeBAp...
I look forward to hearing your views. Ideally I want to get the chattering/chain noise removed. Not the kind of thing an Aston should be doing!!
Thank you for all the detailed information. Very helpful.
I've also managed to record samples of engine start at cold and warm recorded from underneath the car behind the OSF wheel. I also have recordings from above the engine bonnet up, but honestly there isn't much difference so haven't uploaded them as yet.
You can listen to the files on YouTube here...
https://m.youtube.com/channel/UCIwkr5f0VgJ7rRdeBAp...
I look forward to hearing your views. Ideally I want to get the chattering/chain noise removed. Not the kind of thing an Aston should be doing!!
Manv8 said:
Now that new users can post again!.....
Thank you for all the detailed information. Very helpful.
I've also managed to record samples of engine start at cold and warm recorded from underneath the car behind the OSF wheel. I also have recordings from above the engine bonnet up, but honestly there isn't much difference so haven't uploaded them as yet.
You can listen to the files on YouTube here...
https://m.youtube.com/channel/UCIwkr5f0VgJ7rRdeBAp...
I look forward to hearing your views. Ideally I want to get the chattering/chain noise removed. Not the kind of thing an Aston should be doing!!
That to me sounds like the noise is coming from the dry sump system (chain / scavenge pump) and not valve tappet shim. Despite sounding clattery, I’ve yet to see a failure so I’d say your engine will sound exactly like that for the life of the engine, getting no worse / no better / having no adverse consequence other than it’s not a noise you’d expect from a premium luxury car and could be embarrassing. Thank you for all the detailed information. Very helpful.
I've also managed to record samples of engine start at cold and warm recorded from underneath the car behind the OSF wheel. I also have recordings from above the engine bonnet up, but honestly there isn't much difference so haven't uploaded them as yet.
You can listen to the files on YouTube here...
https://m.youtube.com/channel/UCIwkr5f0VgJ7rRdeBAp...
I look forward to hearing your views. Ideally I want to get the chattering/chain noise removed. Not the kind of thing an Aston should be doing!!
In this instance although having no clue the origin of the sound, the dealer saying they all / some can sound like that appears to be correct. Because nothing is broken, it would be pretty tough to get the noise sorted on warranty unless it’s 3 year maker warranty which is there (should be there) to address any niggle the owner might have, extended warranty only fixes stuff which is broken.
Thanks Mike. Hugely appreciate your guidance.
Warranty claim not withstanding. If I wanted the noise to be removed. Is it possible to have remediation work carried out on the oil scavenge pump system. Do you know if its been successfully carried out on another car. Any idea on the costs involved?
It really is a p.i.t.a! Not sure I can live with it which is a shame as the rest of the car is in amazing condition and works beautifully! Either it has to be fixed or as suggested earlier in this thread I'll have to invest in 4 more cylinders :-)
Warranty claim not withstanding. If I wanted the noise to be removed. Is it possible to have remediation work carried out on the oil scavenge pump system. Do you know if its been successfully carried out on another car. Any idea on the costs involved?
It really is a p.i.t.a! Not sure I can live with it which is a shame as the rest of the car is in amazing condition and works beautifully! Either it has to be fixed or as suggested earlier in this thread I'll have to invest in 4 more cylinders :-)
@ManV8 - sounds exactly like mine (2010 car). I was worried about it too, as the car sounds like a third world taxi. But both a main dealer and indy said the car was fine, and then I heard another similar age car that sounded exactly the same. And now yours too. A friends later car, 2014 I think, doesn't exhibit the same noise level.
Suppose one option is put a loud exhaust on to drown it out? I keep wondering about that.
Suppose one option is put a loud exhaust on to drown it out? I keep wondering about that.
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