Warning messages and lights.

[8Tech]

There are so many threads on here about the constant error and warning messages, I am wondering why AM are so much more prone to these faults?

I can think of a number of scenarios that could be the case, but wonder which is the actual cause. Of course, other marques also suffer from a similar system but AM just seem particularly bad.

Is it....

1. Make the parameters that trigger a fault code/light so tight to ideal, ie plus or minus 2% of ideal, that when the cars are out of warranty and getting a few years old, we will keep our workshops busy earning money fixing them?
2. Use cheap and inferior sensors that fail, triggering a false code so that they can sell more sensors, most of which will end up being fitted by a dealer.
3. Make the faults so common, owners read Pistonheads and the general consensus of opinion is ignore it and it will go away, or disconnect and reconnect the battery, or buy a fault code reader to reset (and ignore) it.

Some of these "just ignore it" faults could be major issues if ignored and the fault shown is actually true, whereas "emission service required" is more environmental rather than engine/transmission destroying.

I believe the sensors monitoring the vehicle systems are too sensitive and maybe the use now of German electronics may help, but after parting with the cash to buy a new or used Aston Martin, it would be a very brave salesman who told me "they all do that sir, its normal".

[john ryan]

I believe that the lambda sensors are not ideally situated, at least on the V8, which does make them over sensitive to transient fueling discrepancies - in turn leading to warning messages. In my case usually 'slow response' fault, which can be cleared with obd reader. I would think sensors are generic industry standard to suit Ford, or Bosch, controls.

[rovcallum]

A few thoughts on the above;

I personally think the sensor system and diagnostics are superb. Would you rather NOT have a spurious error flagging up?

The sensors are cheap - but no different to any other manufacturer. Sensor failure is therefore not an expensive DIY repair.

I tend to clear all errors (with the OBD App) and see what comes back. If I ever had any come back immediately, I would investigate further.

PH has been a great resource for many owners, saving them lots of cash.

I think there is a lot of open discussion on all faults but I think it's more because it's such an active forum. The number of faults must look terrible to some but I don't think it's particularly bad.

The problem with Forums is that you generally only hear about the worst/serious problems, not about the 100's or 1000's of happy owners.

[anonymous-user]

rovcallum said:

Would you rather NOT have a spurious error flagging up?

Err, yes. I would rather not have spurious errors flagging up. Genuine errors, yes. But not spurious ones.

[rovcallum]

Greg66 said:

Err, yes. I would rather not have spurious errors flagging up. Genuine errors, yes. But not spurious ones.

What I mean is I'd rather have a sensitive system than have something possibly get missed.

[Manx V8V]

Many times its simply a battery problem, in recent years cars of all brands have become reliant on perfect battery health, it isnt just an AM problem, I had all kinds of mulitiple scary warnings on my Jaguar XF when it was simply the battery getting tired, yet the dashboard would have me believe it was about to cost me mega bucks!!

I've learnt to change batteries on age now and not to wait for problems to surface.

Modern batteries dont show signs of aging like they used to, they seem to either suddenly without any warning die completely, or start to trigger multiple faults on the dash.

[Manwhoneverwas]

I think part of the problem is that AM research and development simply didn't have the financial budgets to develop their in house AM systems.
So in the past they have had to take modules from other sources and "try" to re-engineer (cobble) these parts to work together.
One of the selling points of an AM dealer servicing or repairing your car is that they only use Genuine AM parts, but in the case of some of the modules they are not specifically designed for AM and are sourced from other manufacturers (Ford, Volvo, Jaguar et al)

I have had my V8VR for 6 years and in that time replaced the following modules

Bluetooth module
Roof control module
Parking modules
2 x Door modules

The photo below is of the V8 Vantage Bluetooth module (with pound coin next for scale) and it is prehistoric in its design

[BamfordMike]

8Tech said:

There are so many threads on here about the constant error and warning messages, I am wondering why AM are so much more prone to these faults?

I can think of a number of scenarios that could be the case, but wonder which is the actual cause. Of course, other marques also suffer from a similar system but AM just seem particularly bad.

Is it....

1. Make the parameters that trigger a fault code/light so tight to ideal, ie plus or minus 2% of ideal, that when the cars are out of warranty and getting a few years old, we will keep our workshops busy earning money fixing them?
2. Use cheap and inferior sensors that fail, triggering a false code so that they can sell more sensors, most of which will end up being fitted by a dealer.
3. Make the faults so common, owners read Pistonheads and the general consensus of opinion is ignore it and it will go away, or disconnect and reconnect the battery, or buy a fault code reader to reset (and ignore) it.

Some of these "just ignore it" faults could be major issues if ignored and the fault shown is actually true, whereas "emission service required" is more environmental rather than engine/transmission destroying.

I believe the sensors monitoring the vehicle systems are too sensitive and maybe the use now of German electronics may help, but after parting with the cash to buy a new or used Aston Martin, it would be a very brave salesman who told me "they all do that sir, its normal".

The pressure sensor in the brake system often fails giving a brake system error, the PRND buttons often fail returning a gearbox error, the roof module often fails, however, by far the biggest illumination of a fault light is Lambda sensor related.

Because the brake system failure inhibits ABS and DSC, that problem needs urgent remedy (a £60 sensor and 10 minutes to install). The PRND / gearbox error codes are often reset with an ignition cycle (normally the button circuitry is to blame) leaving open for discussion Lambda sensor faults.

In an attempt to be helpful to the forum, what you should of started with this thread instead of bullst scenarios, is a list of general faults / lambda sensor codes which are not serious so forum members can read the codes themselves and either delete knowing nothing is serious, or understand which faults / lambda sensor codes are true faults and it’s wise to seek further investigation, because your wider rant is plain nonsensical.

Lambda sensor faults / exhaust gas issues which need investigation:

1- Anything which on reset immediately reappears.
2- Except for the codes stated in ‘4’, All codes ranging P0130 to P0175
3- P0420/P0430 (in the case of std cats).

Lambda sensor faults which can be reset / monitored / ignored:
4- Slow response codes P0133, P0139, P0153, P0159

To address some of your points:
It’s hard enough just to calibrate the OBD to function and comply with legislation without programming in a ticking time bomb (so the auto maker can make money from selling parts) which would need to trigger outside 3-year maker warranty period, because get it wrong and codes trigger inside warranty risks 3 strikes and you are out lemon law and a buy back. VW scandal aside, in the UK at least, engineering practices as unscrupulous as what you suggest in ‘thought’ 1 would never get through the several layers of peer review.
Cheap sensors? Lambda sensors on both V8 and V12 are NTK / NGK, which apart from Bosch sensors (normally chosen by an auto maker when the cars ECU is also Bosch) are the industry standard ‘go to’ sensor, which is used in many a German car too!
Make codes frequently illuminate? Why on earth would any automaker desire their product to erroneously flash up messages saying ‘I’m knackered, fix me’!? An error light is the last thing any automaker wants.

Search any warranty database, Google, wherever you want, for both cars and motorbikes, in the top 10 if not top 5, guess what’s there!? Lambda sensor failure, so it’s not an Aston thing by any stretch, Lambda sensors are fragile.

It’s right to comment the lambda sensor error light does ping on an Aston more than, say, a Lexus. For the V8 the position of the sensor is not helping, but lambda switching, heater circuit, dew point, OBD calibration in general, legislation and a plethora of other considerations you simply won’t be able to fathom, so there’s not much point trying to explain them to you reasoning why the sensor prematurely ages and pings a slow response (which we know can be monitored/ ignored). Other than to say, if the code that’s triggered is slow response, it’s because the sensor has aged and versus the signal profile legislation commands, the sensor on the car whilst correctly measuring fuelling, is slower than the legislated minimum and it is therefore in the eyes of the legislators, faulty and an error code must be illuminated, it’s not the automakers choice.
So if your light came on and the reason was slow response (of the sensor not the owner) and the workshop guy said “they all do that sir, its normal”, well, it is fking normal, lambda sensors fail because they are very fragile, change it and continue driving with the car in fine fettle!

Easiest way to remedy a niggling slow response code without spending money on parts is to reflash the ECU with those codes set not to illuminate the dashboard light, then no parts are needed and no lights illuminate on the dashboard.

[BamfordMike]

Manwhoneverwas said:

I think part of the problem is that AM research and development simply didn't have the financial budgets to develop their in house AM systems.
So in the past they have had to take modules from other sources and "try" to re-engineer (cobble) these parts to work together.
One of the selling points of an AM dealer servicing or repairing your car is that they only use Genuine AM parts, but in the case of some of the modules they are not specifically designed for AM and are sourced from other manufacturers (Ford, Volvo, Jaguar et al)

I have had my V8VR for 6 years and in that time replaced the following modules

Bluetooth module
Roof control module
Parking modules
2 x Door modules

The photo below is of the V8 Vantage Bluetooth module (with pound coin next for scale) and it is prehistoric in its design

Exactly how you call it.
All the parts bin modules / electronics are in the main, very robust (Volvo body module, Ford ECU) the Aston sourced parts, when stripped and examined are closer to ‘hobbyist’ in their construction - Throttle pedals, door modules, roof modules. This will be one benefit of the AMG tie in, all the stuff you don’t see which does the hard work should be bulletproof.
During development of V8 I remember taking a Ferrari engine harness to the Electrical Chief to use as a template to copy, stuff like knock sensor wiring was earth screened and had the outer sheath run to the plug. The Aston harness didn’t have earth screening and bare wires showing about an inch from the terminal (still do today). The problem here was that electrical noise caused an interference to the signal from knock sensor to ECU which was pretty much the same frequency at which knock occurred at, so impossible to differentiate knock from electrical noise. I suggested a copy of the Bosch screened harness which was ultimately for the purpose of maximum engine performance - no money for that so compared to a Bosch harness, the early Aston harness is quite second rate.

[bogie]

I find I get the OBDII box out more for my Range Rover and Volvo than I do the Aston .....I guess its just down to luck though

[Cold]

I've owned my V8V for around 7 years and have covered about 40k in it in that time. I've replaced the following modules and sensors:















HTH

[Philip0]

Perhaps a compendium of warning messages and how to remedy them would be useful - I certainly found the advice from PH-ers very helpful this week when I got scary warning messages on my DB9.

[Manwhoneverwas]

Cold said:

I've owned my V8V for around 7 years and have covered about 40k in it in that time. I've replaced the following modules and sensors:

















HTH

You certainly wouldn't need to replace the Roof Module in a Coupe........that's for sure

[Cold]

Manwhoneverwas said:

You certainly wouldn't need to replace the Roof Module in a Coupe........that's for sure

Well, to counter that I did once have a warning message appear on the dashboard. However, it was correct as I had left the bonnet unlatched.