What's next for Vantage? V12? GT8?
Discussion
Now the Manual is released (well done Aston Martin), and the AMR tag has been used, are we now to expect a GT car?
Would the V12 fit in it's engine bay?
I have to say the new Vantage looks it's absolute best in racing trim, a GT version would be mighty interesting to me - hopefully shedding even more weight and perhaps some sort of improvements to the drivetrain that Merc would permit. Oh, and carbon bucket seats please.
That said - if they can dust off the old shoehorn and wedge the V12 in - they'd have much more freedom to increase power and tune for an entertaining eventful driving experience.
Would the V12 fit in it's engine bay?
I have to say the new Vantage looks it's absolute best in racing trim, a GT version would be mighty interesting to me - hopefully shedding even more weight and perhaps some sort of improvements to the drivetrain that Merc would permit. Oh, and carbon bucket seats please.
That said - if they can dust off the old shoehorn and wedge the V12 in - they'd have much more freedom to increase power and tune for an entertaining eventful driving experience.
I’m still not convinced by the idea of a v12 in there (and presumably it would be the twin-turbo now not NA?). Partly because of the extra weight over the nose and partly because I’m not sure it’s needed (I know - nobody ‘needs’ a v12 but we still want one).
So I’m picturing the GT8 version as being up next and given how good the race car looks that could be a very desirable bit of kit indeed
My predicament is stretching the man maths to cover off three Aston Martins - no way am I selling my NA GT8...
So I’m picturing the GT8 version as being up next and given how good the race car looks that could be a very desirable bit of kit indeed
My predicament is stretching the man maths to cover off three Aston Martins - no way am I selling my NA GT8...
jimmybell said:
..... are we now to expect a GT car?
Would the V12 fit in it's engine bay?
Would the V12 fit in it's engine bay?
AP has previously made an open comment, that the (engine mountings on the chassis) pickup points, are the same on the (new) Vantage, as on the DB11.
However, although the AM V12 engine should fit, there would be the disadvantages of that engine being heavier, and also the centre position of that weight would be further forward.
I think therefore, for those reasons and also because of the regulations applicable in some countries now, the general view seems to be that the V12 is unlikely to appear in the new Vantage.
there would also be little point fitting the v12, given that the AMG v8 is already producing 600+ bhp in other cars, with the AMG GTR Black series rumoured to be over 700bhp. Aston just needs to turn up the wick on the v8, and maybe introduce a dual clutch gearbox to keep up with the competition.
cypriot said:
there would also be little point fitting the v12, given that the AMG v8 is already producing 600+ bhp in other cars, with the AMG GTR Black series rumoured to be over 700bhp. Aston just needs to turn up the wick on the v8, and maybe introduce a dual clutch gearbox to keep up with the competition.
Ah, but they're not allowed - at least that's my understanding of the stipulations made by Merc in using the engine. I don't think they can tweak it at all.RobDown said:
I’m still not convinced by the idea of a v12 in there (and presumably it would be the twin-turbo now not NA?). Partly because of the extra weight over the nose and partly because I’m not sure it’s needed (I know - nobody ‘needs’ a v12 but we still want one).
So I’m picturing the GT8 version as being up next and given how good the race car looks that could be a very desirable bit of kit indeed
My predicament is stretching the man maths to cover off three Aston Martins - no way am I selling my NA GT8...
Indeed - I think now the NA train has sailed i'd be more open to taking a dual clutch track version of the new Vantage in GT8 form. with bucket seats. That competes with a 911 GT3. That'l go nicely with the V12VSM.So I’m picturing the GT8 version as being up next and given how good the race car looks that could be a very desirable bit of kit indeed
My predicament is stretching the man maths to cover off three Aston Martins - no way am I selling my NA GT8...
AdamV12V said:
A new GT12 with a manual gearbox, the DBS V12TT engine amd race car aero would get my vote ! Price issues aside.... 
I'd not be against the option of Manual or DCT in a GT car. I'm not sure the ZF is as good as everyone claims, especially in a racey application. Rowing through gears is great on the street but if you're trying to make a 911 GT product competitor you need a decent DCT box.ajr550 said:
I hope there is a GT8 and GT12 version.
If so then the whole AMR thing discussed at length in the other thread starts to make more sense.
The real special series cars will be the GT8 and 12 which I guess will be priced accordingly !
I'm glad it makes sense to you because I'm struggling to understand what they will call a GT8 successor - if it's AMR then AMR what ? They have just launched AMR Vantage and AMR Pro is for track only cars. So they will have to use some new nomenclature just to confuse everyone even more, such as AMRGT (which is way too close to AMG GT). If it's not AMR, makes even more of a mockery of AMR. If so then the whole AMR thing discussed at length in the other thread starts to make more sense.
The real special series cars will be the GT8 and 12 which I guess will be priced accordingly !
jonby said:
I'm glad it makes sense to you because I'm struggling to understand what they will call a GT8 successor - if it's AMR then AMR what ? They have just launched AMR Vantage and AMR Pro is for track only cars. So they will have to use some new nomenclature just to confuse everyone even more, such as AMRGT (which is way too close to AMG GT). If it's not AMR, makes even more of a mockery of AMR.
What's wrong with just an AMR Vantage GT8 / AMR Vantage GT12?AdamV12V said:
jonby said:
I'm glad it makes sense to you because I'm struggling to understand what they will call a GT8 successor - if it's AMR then AMR what ? They have just launched AMR Vantage and AMR Pro is for track only cars. So they will have to use some new nomenclature just to confuse everyone even more, such as AMRGT (which is way too close to AMG GT). If it's not AMR, makes even more of a mockery of AMR.
What's wrong with just an AMR Vantage GT8 / AMR Vantage GT12?Put simply, Aston don't have a sufficiently large range or diversity of products to keep splashing AMR around and expect it to be taken seriously - the groundwork is now laid for how people will perceive AMR and it's a lost opportunity for the sake of short term marketing splashes
Edited by jonby on Friday 3rd May 15:14
AdamV12V said:
jonby said:
I'm glad it makes sense to you because I'm struggling to understand what they will call a GT8 successor - if it's AMR then AMR what ? They have just launched AMR Vantage and AMR Pro is for track only cars. So they will have to use some new nomenclature just to confuse everyone even more, such as AMRGT (which is way too close to AMG GT). If it's not AMR, makes even more of a mockery of AMR.
What's wrong with just an AMR Vantage GT8 / AMR Vantage GT12?jonby said:
I'm glad it makes sense to you because I'm struggling to understand what they will call a GT8 successor - if it's AMR then AMR what ? They have just launched AMR Vantage and AMR Pro is for track only cars. So they will have to use some new nomenclature just to confuse everyone even more, such as AMRGT (which is way too close to AMG GT). If it's not AMR, makes even more of a mockery of AMR.
I am assuming the sportiest limited edition models will have names like GT12 and AMR will be used more like AMG or S Line.Up to now Palmer has copied everything Ferrari have done (don't blame him they are the benchmark and I think he is doing a great job).With AMR I think he is copying Mercedes.
jimmybell said:
Now the Manual is released (well done Aston Martin), and the AMR tag has been used, are we now to expect a GT car?
Would the V12 fit in it's engine bay?
I have to say the new Vantage looks it's absolute best in racing trim, a GT version would be mighty interesting to me - hopefully shedding even more weight and perhaps some sort of improvements to the drivetrain that Merc would permit. Oh, and carbon bucket seats please.
That said - if they can dust off the old shoehorn and wedge the V12 in - they'd have much more freedom to increase power and tune for an entertaining eventful driving experience.
It's an interesting time, and there's a lot of stuff happening. If we address the core issue surrounding new Vantage, it's that there's a demographic of existing VH Vantage owners who dislike the new car because of how it looks and what it's powered by. Now this is a PistonHeads trait rather than a worldwide one, as the car's selling well, and the recent influx of low miles new Vantages popping up in UK dealers is as much to do with their owners having them as a 'stopgap' while they awaited a Zagato Shooting Brake or DBSS to be delivered (I cant think of a nicer stopgap tbh - good on them).Would the V12 fit in it's engine bay?
I have to say the new Vantage looks it's absolute best in racing trim, a GT version would be mighty interesting to me - hopefully shedding even more weight and perhaps some sort of improvements to the drivetrain that Merc would permit. Oh, and carbon bucket seats please.
That said - if they can dust off the old shoehorn and wedge the V12 in - they'd have much more freedom to increase power and tune for an entertaining eventful driving experience.
The fact that objectively speaking, the base model new Vantage performs better than perhaps 95% of the previous Vantage models (I'd assume a GT12 might be quicker on track), ordinarily that would make for a popular upgrade path for existing owners. However - and this is the controversial bit, so I might be torn to shreds - in respect of purely the PH Aston owners, the discussion almost always centres on the looks of the new car and the cabin; performance is not considered to be as important as what it looks like. Driver involvement gets lots of mentions, because we're all fond of the manual Vantage of yesteryear.
It's therefore interesting that the AMR, a car that involves the driver as much as it can given the 'digital' nature of the DNA of the car, because it's technologically a big step forward over the last car, should please those who like to experience a more analogue driving experience.
AMR as an umbrella for more hardcore variants on models, is actually doing a good job of differentiating itself to regular production variants, because the alterations are quantifiable; and as mentioned in the AMR Vantage thread, there's a paradox surrounding complaints about the cost of the car, because to my mind, the previous gen Vantage AMR was a Vantage S with different trim, and yet there were no such complaints about the uplift in cost (perhaps argued on the grounds of rarity and it being the last of the VH Vantages?).
The new AMR is quite a different car to the regular Vantage, and yes, some of the differences will be built into 2020 cars, but wasn't that the case for a 2012.25 Vantage S that became a 'standard' Vantage in later years? Again, no complaints back then. Aston are very good at performing what you'd call a hotfix on their products, where they get refined and improved over the course of their life, either based on the factory's own findings and experience, as well as customer feedback from out in the field.
The formula for these things hasn't really changed, but new Vantage is facing a tough crowd, and as good a car as it is, it seems that some just don't like it at its core. If we look to future variants though, and the really hardcore versions - they'll be something different again. It's likely the 4.0 AMG derived V8 will be retired from active duty, and replaced by a home grown 6 cylinder, turbocharged hybrid. Of course that itself should appease those who didn't like the AMG tie-up, but it's as likely there'll be complaints that it isn't a V8 or V12. It will however be a stunning engine, in a car with stunning performance.
That unfortunately is where this corner of the internet wants to stick to the past, at the same time that the manufacturer is making big strides to keep pace with the rest of the world - every manufacturer that Aston competes against for customers, is downsizing their engines, because they're being forced to. None of them want to, but they're producing the most powerful, most efficient cars is their own history - meaning customers benefit while being able to enjoy better performance than ever before. There'll still be limited run, really exotic stuff, but their mainstay cars are largely going to be turbo-hybrid 6 bangers.
I get that we don't want to lose N/A V12's; I have one, I love it, it's utterly wonderful - but times are changing, and while we cherish the ownership memories of these cars, the world is moving on and Aston Martin cannot be left behind. The forthcoming new models and variants of 2nd Century models are going to be strong candidates for best in their sector, if not game changers (Valkyrie and AM-RB003). Personally I think that's brilliant, but I'm somewhat a PH anomaly in that I like the new cars and the old ones.
This is probably taking the discussion off piste a bit with respect to just the future Vantage variants, but it's quite a wide reaching topic and makes for interesting discussion IMO.
NFC 85 Vette said:
It's an interesting time, and there's a lot of stuff happening. If we address the core issue surrounding new Vantage, it's that there's a demographic of existing VH Vantage owners who dislike the new car because of how it looks and what it's powered by. Now this is a PistonHeads trait rather than a worldwide one, as the car's selling well, and the recent influx of low miles new Vantages popping up in UK dealers is as much to do with their owners having them as a 'stopgap' while they awaited a Zagato Shooting Brake or DBSS to be delivered (I cant think of a nicer stopgap tbh - good on them).
The fact that objectively speaking, the base model new Vantage performs better than perhaps 95% of the previous Vantage models (I'd assume a GT12 might be quicker on track), ordinarily that would make for a popular upgrade path for existing owners. However - and this is the controversial bit, so I might be torn to shreds - in respect of purely the PH Aston owners, the discussion almost always centres on the looks of the new car and the cabin; performance is not considered to be as important as what it looks like. Driver involvement gets lots of mentions, because we're all fond of the manual Vantage of yesteryear.
It's therefore interesting that the AMR, a car that involves the driver as much as it can given the 'digital' nature of the DNA of the car, because it's technologically a big step forward over the last car, should please those who like to experience a more analogue driving experience.
AMR as an umbrella for more hardcore variants on models, is actually doing a good job of differentiating itself to regular production variants, because the alterations are quantifiable; and as mentioned in the AMR Vantage thread, there's a paradox surrounding complaints about the cost of the car, because to my mind, the previous gen Vantage AMR was a Vantage S with different trim, and yet there were no such complaints about the uplift in cost (perhaps argued on the grounds of rarity and it being the last of the VH Vantages?).
The new AMR is quite a different car to the regular Vantage, and yes, some of the differences will be built into 2020 cars, but wasn't that the case for a 2012.25 Vantage S that became a 'standard' Vantage in later years? Again, no complaints back then. Aston are very good at performing what you'd call a hotfix on their products, where they get refined and improved over the course of their life, either based on the factory's own findings and experience, as well as customer feedback from out in the field.
The formula for these things hasn't really changed, but new Vantage is facing a tough crowd, and as good a car as it is, it seems that some just don't like it at its core. If we look to future variants though, and the really hardcore versions - they'll be something different again. It's likely the 4.0 AMG derived V8 will be retired from active duty, and replaced by a home grown 6 cylinder, turbocharged hybrid. Of course that itself should appease those who didn't like the AMG tie-up, but it's as likely there'll be complaints that it isn't a V8 or V12. It will however be a stunning engine, in a car with stunning performance.
That unfortunately is where this corner of the internet wants to stick to the past, at the same time that the manufacturer is making big strides to keep pace with the rest of the world - every manufacturer that Aston competes against for customers, is downsizing their engines, because they're being forced to. None of them want to, but they're producing the most powerful, most efficient cars is their own history - meaning customers benefit while being able to enjoy better performance than ever before. There'll still be limited run, really exotic stuff, but their mainstay cars are largely going to be turbo-hybrid 6 bangers.
I get that we don't want to lose N/A V12's; I have one, I love it, it's utterly wonderful - but times are changing, and while we cherish the ownership memories of these cars, the world is moving on and Aston Martin cannot be left behind. The forthcoming new models and variants of 2nd Century models are going to be strong candidates for best in their sector, if not game changers (Valkyrie and AM-RB003). Personally I think that's brilliant, but I'm somewhat a PH anomaly in that I like the new cars and the old ones.
This is probably taking the discussion off piste a bit with respect to just the future Vantage variants, but it's quite a wide reaching topic and makes for interesting discussion IMO.
Absolutely.The fact that objectively speaking, the base model new Vantage performs better than perhaps 95% of the previous Vantage models (I'd assume a GT12 might be quicker on track), ordinarily that would make for a popular upgrade path for existing owners. However - and this is the controversial bit, so I might be torn to shreds - in respect of purely the PH Aston owners, the discussion almost always centres on the looks of the new car and the cabin; performance is not considered to be as important as what it looks like. Driver involvement gets lots of mentions, because we're all fond of the manual Vantage of yesteryear.
It's therefore interesting that the AMR, a car that involves the driver as much as it can given the 'digital' nature of the DNA of the car, because it's technologically a big step forward over the last car, should please those who like to experience a more analogue driving experience.
AMR as an umbrella for more hardcore variants on models, is actually doing a good job of differentiating itself to regular production variants, because the alterations are quantifiable; and as mentioned in the AMR Vantage thread, there's a paradox surrounding complaints about the cost of the car, because to my mind, the previous gen Vantage AMR was a Vantage S with different trim, and yet there were no such complaints about the uplift in cost (perhaps argued on the grounds of rarity and it being the last of the VH Vantages?).
The new AMR is quite a different car to the regular Vantage, and yes, some of the differences will be built into 2020 cars, but wasn't that the case for a 2012.25 Vantage S that became a 'standard' Vantage in later years? Again, no complaints back then. Aston are very good at performing what you'd call a hotfix on their products, where they get refined and improved over the course of their life, either based on the factory's own findings and experience, as well as customer feedback from out in the field.
The formula for these things hasn't really changed, but new Vantage is facing a tough crowd, and as good a car as it is, it seems that some just don't like it at its core. If we look to future variants though, and the really hardcore versions - they'll be something different again. It's likely the 4.0 AMG derived V8 will be retired from active duty, and replaced by a home grown 6 cylinder, turbocharged hybrid. Of course that itself should appease those who didn't like the AMG tie-up, but it's as likely there'll be complaints that it isn't a V8 or V12. It will however be a stunning engine, in a car with stunning performance.
That unfortunately is where this corner of the internet wants to stick to the past, at the same time that the manufacturer is making big strides to keep pace with the rest of the world - every manufacturer that Aston competes against for customers, is downsizing their engines, because they're being forced to. None of them want to, but they're producing the most powerful, most efficient cars is their own history - meaning customers benefit while being able to enjoy better performance than ever before. There'll still be limited run, really exotic stuff, but their mainstay cars are largely going to be turbo-hybrid 6 bangers.
I get that we don't want to lose N/A V12's; I have one, I love it, it's utterly wonderful - but times are changing, and while we cherish the ownership memories of these cars, the world is moving on and Aston Martin cannot be left behind. The forthcoming new models and variants of 2nd Century models are going to be strong candidates for best in their sector, if not game changers (Valkyrie and AM-RB003). Personally I think that's brilliant, but I'm somewhat a PH anomaly in that I like the new cars and the old ones.
This is probably taking the discussion off piste a bit with respect to just the future Vantage variants, but it's quite a wide reaching topic and makes for interesting discussion IMO.
Did I mention I drove new Vantage at the weekend and it is utterly brilliant
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