Thoughts on buying V12VM
Discussion
It's been quite a while since I participated in this forum. Having owned a 4.7 V8V and DBS both of which were fettled by Bamford Rose and great cars, in 2015 I switched to a California T. Again, a fabulous car with an awesome DCT although not quite the soundtrack of the Astons. Catch the upshift just right though and it was like a shotgun firing. I needed a 2+2 set up to keep my 2 young boys from arguing about who was going in the V8V. Now however, they've outgrown the tight back seats. So I parted ways with the Cali earlier in the year and am starting to wonder what I'm going to get next. Speccing a new Ferrari was a great experience, although what wasn't so palatable was the hit I took when I eventually sold 3 and a half years later. As a result, I've started looking at more "mature" cars that hopefully won't lose a shed load over the next few years and if I'm lucky may at least hold value. With a past TVR heritage, I've been tempted by a couple of late model Cerbera's and a Chimp but I've recently been thinking a V12VM might be an attractive option. I loved my first Aston V8V and was always looking at the V12 but at the time price wise it wasn't an option. With retirement looming, I don't want to throw money away if I don't need to. The V12VSM looks great but I think that I'd probably be looking at continuing depreciation in the next 3-5 years. On the other hand a V12VM circa 2011-12 and 20 odd thousand miles at around £70Kish looks a better option for me in terms of less depreciation and still seems a great car. I'm looking at a Vantage as I'd prefer a 2 seater and manual. After the DCT on the Cali I think I'd be disappointed with sportshift (didn't like it on the DBS). Plus I think manual may end up more desirable longer term. I reckon I'll do about 4000 miles a year going on past experience.
So a few questions. The big one which I don't suppose anyone can really answer but where would you expect the price to bottom out in the next few years? In other words if I were to sell it in 2-3 years, what sort of hit can I expect?
Also, are there any particular issues to be aware of with these cars and to look for when buying? I know the CCM brakes are a small fortune to replace so need to check them carefully.
Noise wise how do they compare to a V8V? My V8 had 200 cell cats and bypass valve and sounded great. Don't think the DBS was quite as raucous.
Look forward to hearing your views.
So a few questions. The big one which I don't suppose anyone can really answer but where would you expect the price to bottom out in the next few years? In other words if I were to sell it in 2-3 years, what sort of hit can I expect?
Also, are there any particular issues to be aware of with these cars and to look for when buying? I know the CCM brakes are a small fortune to replace so need to check them carefully.
Noise wise how do they compare to a V8V? My V8 had 200 cell cats and bypass valve and sounded great. Don't think the DBS was quite as raucous.
Look forward to hearing your views.
SSM is far different than TT on a DBS. SSM is pretty involving; the next best thing to a clutch pedal. I find using the paddles on a TT to be just a gimmick; just leave it in drive. I've got all three types of trans in my cars and I find the SSM to be the most enjoyable of them all. Never tried DCT, but I imagine that it is another case of just leaving it in drive.
Having had both V8V's and V12V's, I would say it depends what you want to use it for.
I have a V12SM Roadster and absolutely love it, but I don't drive it everyday, and nor would I want to (tin hat ready
). Before that I had a V12VM Coupe and loved that, but again it wasn't a daily driver. If I did want a daily I think think I would probably go for a V8S, as personally I think it's an "easier" option, for want of a better term. The V12V (in all variants) is an absolutely epic car to drive, and I genuinely can't think of anything on sale today that I'd swap it for.
As for V12 issues, you've pretty much covered it I think. Make sure the carbon rotors are in good shape otherwise you'll cry and make sure the history is mint (although you know that bit already). As you've had a Vantage in the past, you know what they're like, and I'm sure you appreciate you'll get the odd niggle, like mirrors not folding or the fuel cap sticking, but clearly they're niggles and not issues as such. The V12 soundtrack is like nothing else, whether you de-cat it or not.
As for values, who knows I guess. To state the obvious, NA V12's (all manufacturers) are getting rare, couple that with a manual box and they're rarer still. However, I think the desire for these sorts of cars is going to start to ease as time moves on, as the younger generation just don't have any affiliation towards them at all....they're dinosaurs to them. I don't however care what mines worth as it's not for sale.
Having said that, there are some good V12VM offerings out there at the moment and if you buy an early example I just can't see that you'd get hit much, bar the dealers spread.
Good luck and keep us updated.
I have a V12SM Roadster and absolutely love it, but I don't drive it everyday, and nor would I want to (tin hat ready
). Before that I had a V12VM Coupe and loved that, but again it wasn't a daily driver. If I did want a daily I think think I would probably go for a V8S, as personally I think it's an "easier" option, for want of a better term. The V12V (in all variants) is an absolutely epic car to drive, and I genuinely can't think of anything on sale today that I'd swap it for.As for V12 issues, you've pretty much covered it I think. Make sure the carbon rotors are in good shape otherwise you'll cry and make sure the history is mint (although you know that bit already). As you've had a Vantage in the past, you know what they're like, and I'm sure you appreciate you'll get the odd niggle, like mirrors not folding or the fuel cap sticking, but clearly they're niggles and not issues as such. The V12 soundtrack is like nothing else, whether you de-cat it or not.
As for values, who knows I guess. To state the obvious, NA V12's (all manufacturers) are getting rare, couple that with a manual box and they're rarer still. However, I think the desire for these sorts of cars is going to start to ease as time moves on, as the younger generation just don't have any affiliation towards them at all....they're dinosaurs to them. I don't however care what mines worth as it's not for sale.
Having said that, there are some good V12VM offerings out there at the moment and if you buy an early example I just can't see that you'd get hit much, bar the dealers spread.
Good luck and keep us updated.
Welcome back.
Your existing AM experience and knowledge would appear to have led you to a good choice of car. As you know, the V12V is a car in demand, smallish beautiful body, big engine, naturally aspirated and manual gearbox.
You mentioned Sportshift, but the DBS has a torque shift gearbox not an automated manual.
As you say, carbon brake replacement is very expensive, and a new issue has recently been mentioned on this forum, something to do with disc bolts shearing. You should be able to find that topic.
As for future prices, who knows. I suppose one aspect could be political. There might not be any demand at all for expensive sports cars, if our government does (it is now a possibility) become the same as Venezuela.
Edited by Jon39 on Wednesday 26th June 15:51
I wish I was in a position to buy a Carbon Black Edition V12 Vantage right now.....it's just pure perfection in my eyes. This one is going for c.£74k at the moment with 19k miles on the clock
I reckon as a worst case you'd be looking at losing £24k in the next 3 years, but of course that's just my thoughts, based on nothing but subjective love for the design, rarity and feel food factor. Let's hope that 5 years down the line when I may be in a position to buy, that values haven't started appreciating at a crazy rate.
I reckon as a worst case you'd be looking at losing £24k in the next 3 years, but of course that's just my thoughts, based on nothing but subjective love for the design, rarity and feel food factor. Let's hope that 5 years down the line when I may be in a position to buy, that values haven't started appreciating at a crazy rate.
simon578 said:
I wish I was in a position to buy a Carbon Black Edition V12 Vantage right now.....it's just pure perfection in my eyes. This one is going for c.£74k at the moment with 19k miles on the clock
I reckon as a worst case you'd be looking at losing £24k in the next 3 years, but of course that's just my thoughts, based on nothing but subjective love for the design, rarity and feel food factor. Let's hope that 5 years down the line when I may be in a position to buy, that values haven't started appreciating at a crazy rate.
The cheapest V12V has been £70k for several years now, so they do not appear to be moving down at the bottom end of the market. These are already 10yr old cars now, so I might be wrong, but I cant see the next 5yrs making much difference, and I would be very surprised it if was to come down to £50k (sell price!). Clearly if you spend more than double that on the last of the line V12VS there is a much bigger risk of movement as over the years the age becomes less relevant, but you do get a much better and newer car all round. That said even the earliest and cheapest V12V is still a stonking car - providing you do the necessary checks before buying.I reckon as a worst case you'd be looking at losing £24k in the next 3 years, but of course that's just my thoughts, based on nothing but subjective love for the design, rarity and feel food factor. Let's hope that 5 years down the line when I may be in a position to buy, that values haven't started appreciating at a crazy rate.
DB9VolanteDriver said:
SSM is far different than TT on a DBS. SSM is pretty involving; the next best thing to a clutch pedal. I find using the paddles on a TT to be just a gimmick; just leave it in drive. I've got all three types of trans in my cars and I find the SSM to be the most enjoyable of them all. Never tried DCT, but I imagine that it is another case of just leaving it in drive.
Yes I'd forgotten that it was just a torque converter on the DBS. Might have to try a SSM and see. The DCT box was something else. Never drove it in auto but always on the paddles and always in sport mode! 
I Just bought a 2012 Carbon Black with only 6k miles Last Month, and have put about 700 miles on it. Love the car. Fast and sexy.
Did have a issue with a check engine light which came on when I disconnected the battery to fix the analogue clock, but the local independent shop was able to get rid of it for about $125.
I don't think the car is going to depreciate a lot in the next 5 years (even if it did, I am not selling mine), but if the manufacturers don't bring back manuals on new cars, it will be a sought after collectible in 10-15 years.
May be it's the honeymoon stage, but right now, I prefer to drive it more than my F1 360
Did have a issue with a check engine light which came on when I disconnected the battery to fix the analogue clock, but the local independent shop was able to get rid of it for about $125.
I don't think the car is going to depreciate a lot in the next 5 years (even if it did, I am not selling mine), but if the manufacturers don't bring back manuals on new cars, it will be a sought after collectible in 10-15 years.
May be it's the honeymoon stage, but right now, I prefer to drive it more than my F1 360
AdamV12V said:
simon578 said:
I wish I was in a position to buy a Carbon Black Edition V12 Vantage right now.....it's just pure perfection in my eyes. This one is going for c.£74k at the moment with 19k miles on the clock
I reckon as a worst case you'd be looking at losing £24k in the next 3 years, but of course that's just my thoughts, based on nothing but subjective love for the design, rarity and feel food factor. Let's hope that 5 years down the line when I may be in a position to buy, that values haven't started appreciating at a crazy rate.
The cheapest V12V has been £70k for several years now, so they do not appear to be moving down at the bottom end of the market. These are already 10yr old cars now, so I might be wrong, but I cant see the next 5yrs making much difference, and I would be very surprised it if was to come down to £50k (sell price!). Clearly if you spend more than double that on the last of the line V12VS there is a much bigger risk of movement as over the years the age becomes less relevant, but you do get a much better and newer car all round. That said even the earliest and cheapest V12V is still a stonking car - providing you do the necessary checks before buying.I reckon as a worst case you'd be looking at losing £24k in the next 3 years, but of course that's just my thoughts, based on nothing but subjective love for the design, rarity and feel food factor. Let's hope that 5 years down the line when I may be in a position to buy, that values haven't started appreciating at a crazy rate.
Edited by johnnyBv8 on Wednesday 26th June 17:38
I've had a V8V 4.3, V12VM, DBSM & V12VSM. The V8V was the nimblest but slow, V12VM great but terrible damping, DBSM just perfect, V12VSM great steering but the dog leg box is not great, V12VM and DBSM gearboxes are much better.
They'll all continue to depreciate but not hugely, DBSM for me but V12VM on a par and a bargain, just upgrade the dampers
My DBS is the keeper and my California T!
They'll all continue to depreciate but not hugely, DBSM for me but V12VM on a par and a bargain, just upgrade the dampers
My DBS is the keeper and my California T!
I just can't see these dropping in value anymore. The shape/design etc is timeless, an NA V12 with 500+bhp, manual gearbox, drivers car etc...its a dying breed and it's a proper Aston Martin - you just can't beat it. The fact it's the last true Aston V12 engine, the noise, the looks, rarity etc etc for £70k - £80k...I really can't think of anything close to all this for the money.
I'd pay a little more for a lower mileage one as suspect it will hold it's value better. I toyed with selling mine earlier this year but have decided to keep it. I can't see it dropping anymore so is "free" motoring, I haven't had a single issue in almost 3 years of ownership and is noting to replace it with unless you want to go and spend circa £120k...
I have seen that Rikon have another for sale at the moment , low miles, low owners, great spec (Bose, all the carbon bits etc) for just under £80k - that is where I would be putting my money right now. But maybe I'm biased...lol
I'd pay a little more for a lower mileage one as suspect it will hold it's value better. I toyed with selling mine earlier this year but have decided to keep it. I can't see it dropping anymore so is "free" motoring, I haven't had a single issue in almost 3 years of ownership and is noting to replace it with unless you want to go and spend circa £120k...
I have seen that Rikon have another for sale at the moment , low miles, low owners, great spec (Bose, all the carbon bits etc) for just under £80k - that is where I would be putting my money right now. But maybe I'm biased...lol
KevinBird said:
My DBS is the keeper and my California T!
I really enjoyed the CaliT. I know the Ferrari aficionados poo pooed it as not a true Fezza but it ticked the boxes on my list at the time and was a great daily driver. The DBS whilst a fantastic car was too GT for what I wanted and I hated the automatic TT box.There's a lot of choice of interesting motors of varying ages in that price bracket but I seem to keep coming back to the V12V. The Vantage is more my cup of tea than the 2+2 GTs. I think it's just that bit more outright sports car and looks great. I loved the raw sound my V8V produced with the 200 cell cats and bypass valves opened. I'm hoping the V12 will be even better but not yet had the chance to try one in the flesh. I realise it may not be quite as friendly as the V8 for everyday use but I doubt I'd do more than 3-4K a year in it. Suppose I just need to get out and try one.
Obafemi09 said:
I just can't see these dropping in value anymore. The shape/design etc is timeless, an NA V12 with 500+bhp, manual gearbox, drivers car etc...its a dying breed and it's a proper Aston Martin - you just can't beat it. The fact it's the last true Aston V12 engine, the noise, the looks, rarity etc etc for £70k - £80k...I really can't think of anything close to all this for the money.
What I'm thinking. Now just need to see if I can find the right one. Unfortunately not black (or white) for me.Most of the key points have been covered already. My two pence:
If you’re looking at this as a semi investment, then V12M, limited edition run (carbons black), lightweight seats, low mileage. And don’t use it much.
Otherwise don’t rule out a V12VS. The manual probably still does have a chunk of depreciation to bear at least in the medium term. The SS3 cars are through a bit of that (simply because they’re older). SS3 takes some getting used to. It took me >500 miles to get on top of using it to best effect. When I test drove it I regarded it as something I could live with, whereas now I positively love it. It’s a case of seeing its potential based on a short acquaintance.
If you’re looking at this as a semi investment, then V12M, limited edition run (carbons black), lightweight seats, low mileage. And don’t use it much.
Otherwise don’t rule out a V12VS. The manual probably still does have a chunk of depreciation to bear at least in the medium term. The SS3 cars are through a bit of that (simply because they’re older). SS3 takes some getting used to. It took me >500 miles to get on top of using it to best effect. When I test drove it I regarded it as something I could live with, whereas now I positively love it. It’s a case of seeing its potential based on a short acquaintance.
http://www.fisherperformance.co.uk/aston-martin-v1...
I love this white manual V12. Not normally a massive fan of white but really suits the shape
£64k
I love this white manual V12. Not normally a massive fan of white but really suits the shape
£64k
mhurley said:
http://www.fisherperformance.co.uk/aston-martin-v1...
I love this white manual V12. Not normally a massive fan of white but really suits the shape
£64k
Morning Frost is a fabulous colour . Only thing I don’t like on that car is the V12 seat embroidery . Other than that what a bargain - V12 Aston with a Manual box for £64k ! I love this white manual V12. Not normally a massive fan of white but really suits the shape
£64k
I realise it may not be quite as friendly as the V8 for everyday use but I doubt I'd do more than 3-4K a year in it. Suppose I just need to get out and try one.
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I don't know why it would be any more or less friendly for every day use than a v8..? I live reasonably central London and mine is a manual and is absolutely no issue in stop start traffic etc. Body is the same size as the V8 Vantage, it's got more tourque so can easily pootle around in 2nd or 3rd gear at low revs so is no stress to drive.
It is such a beautiful car, classy and timeless, I don't think you can go wrong
[/quote]
I don't know why it would be any more or less friendly for every day use than a v8..? I live reasonably central London and mine is a manual and is absolutely no issue in stop start traffic etc. Body is the same size as the V8 Vantage, it's got more tourque so can easily pootle around in 2nd or 3rd gear at low revs so is no stress to drive.
It is such a beautiful car, classy and timeless, I don't think you can go wrong
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