A few questions on a potential purchase please

[mirandamilly]

I'm looking to get an inspection done on a DB7 3.2 that I was given a video tour of over the weekend by the seller. I thought I'd try Stratton Aston Martin as the car is in Norfolk, although any other suggestions would be helpful.

The seller says that the car has ''composite' panels on the front and rear wings and bonnet. Is this for real? Does this mean that the original steel panels have been replaced with fibreglass?? Why would an owner want to do this, and should I be worried (don't want to waste a few hundred £ on an inspection).

The car has some form of diagnostic port, but on the video tour it was a circular plug with about 15 circular holes. It was below the glovebox. Does this sound right? And will I be able to use this to read any codes? Or does it need an AM product to work?

The seller was nice and he has quite a nice private car collection as far as I could see. I'm inclined to go forward to getting an inspection done (at some point) subject to understand the above queries.

Many thanks

MM

[bogie]

The PG Buying guide is here and yes many of the panels were composite, just like most newer Aston Martins since.

https://www.pistonheads.com/news/ph-buying-guide-c...

If the diag port is standard OBD II yes you will be able to pull all the standard codes with any generic reader. For AM specific codes you will need a more specialist reader which are more like £200 vs £20

[TRfan]

Virtually all DB7 i6 have some composite panels from new

The diagnostic port is the normal sort of trapezoidal thing, not circular. A cheap ebay obd reader will work on a db7

I spent a good sum getting a check out on mine before purchase, only to find (later) that the expert had missed the fact that the vendor had removed the bulb from the ‘engine check light’ in the warning lamp display. Cost me an arm and a leg, and two months, to get it fixed.

Best of luck with yours, they are fun to drive with the roof down on a sunny day ......

[Jon39]

mirandamilly said:

Does this mean that the original steel panels have been replaced with fibreglass?? Why would an owner want to do this, and should I be worried (don't want to waste a few hundred £ on an inspection).

I have a different model AM, so don't know too much about DB7s.

Certainly the DB9 and Vantage have fibreglass (they like to call it composite) front wings.

Do you have a dog?
Just need to be a little careful. -

Edited by Jon39 on Monday 11th May 19:43

[mirandamilly]

OMG. That's awful. I'm guessing that there must have been a rat lodging in the engine bay.
Good to know about the composite panels.
The diagnostic port is not the normal oblong shape. This one was circular. Does anyone know how it can be read?

[Speedraser]

The DB7 has composite front wings, bonnet, sill covers and boot lid. The rear wings, doors and roof are steel. There were, however, a very small number (fewer than 20) of very early cars that had aluminum from wings.

[David Ramsbotham]

The cars with aluminium wings have been retrofitted from a batch that was made for a proposed one make race series that never saw the light of day!
The early cars had composite bootlid, bonnet, front wings and sill covers as stated. The only change in the i6 lifetime was to to go to a steel bonnet.
It sounds as if you are looking at an early car ( pre airbag) which had the Zytec Ecu those were not OBD2 compatible. I am guessing the plug you refer to is for the Zytec diagnostics system. There are very few companies that now have the readers. Chiltern Aston Martin do have one, I believe.
The early DB7 is quite a simple beast and in 24 years of ownership, I have never needed diagnostics!
Hope this helps, pm me if you need more. Good luck with your search/ purchase.

[leman600]

As a Norfolk person myself I can definitely vouch for Stratton and it is worth a call regarding the ecu interface port. (Looks like a Jag item but not that common?)
Might be worth searching on Jag forums for similar ages of car. You would think that there must either be a way of sorting it or as mentioned it must be reliable enough to not be that important. (Famous last words of course)
Good luck.

[AB]

Jon39 said:

I have a different model AM, so don't know too much about DB7s.

Certainly the DB9 and Vantage have fibreglass (they like to call it composite) front wings.

Do you have a dog?
Just need to be a little careful. -

Edited by Jon39 on Monday 11th May 19:43

I can't help with the OP's questions... but OMG

[LTP]

Jon39 said:

Certainly the DB9 and Vantage have fibreglass (they like to call it composite) front wings.

Trying to earn my PH pedant's wings badge here, but technically I believe the DB7 panels would be of SMC (Sheet Moulding Compound). These would have been pressure and heat formed by a punch-and-die arrangement in a press rather than the wet layup in a one-sided mould associated with fibreglass panels. The SMC process gives a smooth resin surface to both sides of the panel, rather than the obvious fibre mat being visible (and felt) from a wet layup.

[cayman-black]

Jon39 said:

I have a different model AM, so don't know too much about DB7s.

Certainly the DB9 and Vantage have fibreglass (they like to call it composite) front wings.

Do you have a dog?
Just need to be a little careful. -

Edited by Jon39 on Monday 11th May 19:43

Oh dear. Looking like that though he /she could get away with anything.

[AstonV]

Jon39 said:

I have a different model AM, so don't know too much about DB7s.

Certainly the DB9 and Vantage have fibreglass (they like to call it composite) front wings.

Do you have a dog?
Just need to be a little careful. -

Edited by Jon39 on Monday 11th May 19:43

I hope the dog was OK. I would be more concerned about it eating fiberglass. My dog has no access to my cars, if this happened, it would have been my neglect. My dog is worth more to me that any vehicle.

[NickXX]

The dog got rehomed.

[Speedraser]

David Ramsbotham said:

The cars with aluminium wings have been retrofitted from a batch that was made for a proposed one make race series that never saw the light of day!
The early cars had composite bootlid, bonnet, front wings and sill covers as stated. The only change in the i6 lifetime was to to go to a steel bonnet.
It sounds as if you are looking at an early car ( pre airbag) which had the Zytec Ecu those were not OBD2 compatible. I am guessing the plug you refer to is for the Zytec diagnostics system. There are very few companies that now have the readers. Chiltern Aston Martin do have one, I believe.
The early DB7 is quite a simple beast and in 24 years of ownership, I have never needed diagnostics!
Hope this helps, pm me if you need more. Good luck with your search/ purchase.

My understanding is that at the very beginning production, production of the composite (RTM) front wings wasn't fully up to speed, so a small number of aluminium wings were produced and fitted to these (fewer than 20) very early cars.

[AstonV]

NickXX said:

The dog got rehomed.

Incredibly sad how many people get puppies and end up putting them in a shelter or worse because they aren’t willing to put in the time and energy train them.

[David Ramsbotham]

Speedraser said:

My understanding is that at the very beginning production, production of the composite (RTM) front wings wasn't fully up to speed, so a small number of aluminium wings were produced and fitted to these (fewer than 20) very early cars.

I have chassis number 7, know of chassis 1, 6 and 10, all were originally fitted with composite wings. I worked at AML from 1995, inspecting many of they’re production units none were fitted with aluminium wings.

[Speedraser]

David Ramsbotham said:

Speedraser said:

My understanding is that at the very beginning production, production of the composite (RTM) front wings wasn't fully up to speed, so a small number of aluminium wings were produced and fitted to these (fewer than 20) very early cars.

I have chassis number 7, know of chassis 1, 6 and 10, all were originally fitted with composite wings. I worked at AML from 1995, inspecting many of they’re production units none were fitted with aluminium wings.

Thanks David -- interesting. It was not my understanding that the first 20 or so production cars had aluminum front wings, but rather that fewer than 20 early cars had them -- most early cars had composite front wings, but interspersed with them were the aluminum-winged cars. So, I found where I'd read that information -- it's in the DB7 to One-77 Register that the AMOC Registrar put together and published in 2011. It says:

"Production was originally somewhat held up as the Resin Transfer Moulding process used to make the front wings was not fully perfected and a shortage of wings was jeopardizing production. As an emergency measure to keep production moving bespoke aluminium wings were engineered and made by experienced panel beaters from Newport Pagnell and fitted to 18 particularly sought after 1994MY cars. The registrar has not yet been able to identify the chassis numbers of these cars."

If you arrived at AML in 1995, these 18 cars (assuming the Registrar is correct) would already have been built.

[David Ramsbotham]

Speedraser said:

Thanks David -- interesting. It was not my understanding that the first 20 or so production cars had aluminum front wings, but rather that fewer than 20 early cars had them -- most early cars had composite front wings, but interspersed with them were the aluminum-winged cars. So, I found where I'd read that information -- it's in the DB7 to One-77 Register that the AMOC Registrar put together and published in 2011. It says:

"Production was originally somewhat held up as the Resin Transfer Moulding process used to make the front wings was not fully perfected and a shortage of wings was jeopardizing production. As an emergency measure to keep production moving bespoke aluminium wings were engineered and made by experienced panel beaters from Newport Pagnell and fitted to 18 particularly sought after 1994MY cars. The registrar has not yet been able to identify the chassis numbers of these cars."

If you arrived at AML in 1995, these 18 cars (assuming the Registrar is correct) would already have been built.

You must, of course, choose what you wish to believe. It is worth noting that so called 1994MY cars are pre production vehicles never sold to the public. Production cars are 1995MY, model years running from September of the previous year in car manufacturing speak!
Without going any further into this , thought the attached photo might be of interest. A pair of the infamous aluminium wings that I have had in my possession for about 23 years.

[N7GTX]

To answer the OP's questions.

A circular diagnostic port is only fitted to early cars as David has said. This is connected to the engine management computer and is called Zytek which was also used on Jaguar XJ220s. The software can only be read using Aston Martin diagnostic tools which a few independents and some dealers have.
Later cars from 1997 changed to Ford's EECV management and that has standard 16 pin diagnostic ports as fitted to all European market cars since then.

The wings and boot lid are resin moulded, again on the early cars. The bonnet on mine - made in late 1995 - is an alloy one.

These components are standard and should not put you off buying the car. An expert inspection is definitely advisable and ensure the aircon does work as its expensive to repair.

Edited by N7GTX on Thursday 14th May 10:12

[MarkM3Evoplus]

AstonV said:

NickXX said:

The dog got rehomed.

Incredibly sad how many people get puppies and end up putting them in a shelter or worse because they aren’t willing to put in the time and energy train them.

I remember this. Guy spent too munch time on Aston, so dog got jealous.... a lesson to learn!!!