2007 Vantage Handling set-up
Discussion
Just got my Vantage out of storage and now remembering how bad it feels at high speed! It does not inspire confidence at all. Even at low speed it seems to tram line too much for my liking. I did have the geo checked last year but the guy who did it did not inspire me with much confidence - I even had to show him where all the adjustments where and even had to crack some bolts slack for him as he did not have the strength! or he just did not want to do it as it was 'different'. Anyway think I ended up with as close to factory as we could get - if his gear was calibrated correctly!
Has anyone changed away from factory for the better or even altered tyre pressures?
Has anyone changed away from factory for the better or even altered tyre pressures?
My setup was transformed when I replaced the original Bridgestones with Michelin Pilot Sport 4S.
The fitting company also had a Hunter laser alignment system. On this there was only one parameter that was within OEM spec!
The original alignment check was free, but each corrected parameter created additional cost. So pricey, but what a difference!
The car feels planted and secure on the road - no tramlining or skittering, no Ackerman wheel dragging when reversing with lock. And all with standard tyre pressures of 34 front, 36 rear.
I wouldn't trust any alignment system that wasn't Hunter, operated by somene familiar with Aston geometry and adjustment and who knew the Hunter system inside out.
The fitting company also had a Hunter laser alignment system. On this there was only one parameter that was within OEM spec!
The original alignment check was free, but each corrected parameter created additional cost. So pricey, but what a difference!
The car feels planted and secure on the road - no tramlining or skittering, no Ackerman wheel dragging when reversing with lock. And all with standard tyre pressures of 34 front, 36 rear.
I wouldn't trust any alignment system that wasn't Hunter, operated by somene familiar with Aston geometry and adjustment and who knew the Hunter system inside out.
I had mine aligned on a Hunter machine a few years ago but decided to check it myself as I noticed recently he’d adjusted it to -11’ front total toe when it should be +6’ for factory settings.
I started out making 4 height adjustable tables for the car to sit on (my garage floor isn’t level). I then raised the car with my scissor lift and clocked every wheel with a dial indicator. There was upto 0.4mm of total runout so this was corrected for when doing the rim to string measurements. First I measured the camber by hanging a plumb line and measuring with a vernier from the rim to the string at top and bottom. Measurements were easily within 0.05mm which equates to a maximum error of 0.7’ across the 516mm diameter of the rim which is plenty good enough. I then set up two parallel strings down the side of the car and measured from the front and back of each rim to the string. I derived some formulas to calculate the toe of each wheel taking out any alignment accuracy between the string and car. The only requirement was that the two strings had to be exactly parallel to themselves. This was achieved hanging them over grooved aluminium tubes across both ends of the car supported at wheel centre height.
With the steering wheel straight ahead, the front toe was -11’ on the left and +4’ on the right giving a total of -8’ and steer ahead of -8’. The rear was +5’ on the left and +20’ on the right giving a total toe of +25’ (factory setting is +20’) and a thrust angle of -7’. This meant the steer ahead angle and thrust angle cancelled each other out, leaving the steering wheel straight but the car crabbed by +8’. Down the length of the car this equates to 10mm of crab. This wasn’t discernible when driving the car but the front toe out wasn’t desirable when it should be toe in. I’m in the process of adjusting it back to factory settings so it will be interesting to see whether there is a difference.
This method requires huge care and attention to detail but it does work and is repeatable to +/-1’. It also shows you have to be very careful where you take your Aston to be aligned even if they do have a Hunter machine.
I started out making 4 height adjustable tables for the car to sit on (my garage floor isn’t level). I then raised the car with my scissor lift and clocked every wheel with a dial indicator. There was upto 0.4mm of total runout so this was corrected for when doing the rim to string measurements. First I measured the camber by hanging a plumb line and measuring with a vernier from the rim to the string at top and bottom. Measurements were easily within 0.05mm which equates to a maximum error of 0.7’ across the 516mm diameter of the rim which is plenty good enough. I then set up two parallel strings down the side of the car and measured from the front and back of each rim to the string. I derived some formulas to calculate the toe of each wheel taking out any alignment accuracy between the string and car. The only requirement was that the two strings had to be exactly parallel to themselves. This was achieved hanging them over grooved aluminium tubes across both ends of the car supported at wheel centre height.
With the steering wheel straight ahead, the front toe was -11’ on the left and +4’ on the right giving a total of -8’ and steer ahead of -8’. The rear was +5’ on the left and +20’ on the right giving a total toe of +25’ (factory setting is +20’) and a thrust angle of -7’. This meant the steer ahead angle and thrust angle cancelled each other out, leaving the steering wheel straight but the car crabbed by +8’. Down the length of the car this equates to 10mm of crab. This wasn’t discernible when driving the car but the front toe out wasn’t desirable when it should be toe in. I’m in the process of adjusting it back to factory settings so it will be interesting to see whether there is a difference.
This method requires huge care and attention to detail but it does work and is repeatable to +/-1’. It also shows you have to be very careful where you take your Aston to be aligned even if they do have a Hunter machine.
Edited by mjk1 on Saturday 23 May 17:24
Something is clearly wrong with your setup.
Mine is the most planted car I've known, chassis and shocks are an amazing combo.
Only thing I'd change is it has tendwncy to understeer a little, but that just makes it safer to lend it to friends etc.. Who aren't so experienced in powerful RWD cars
Mine is the most planted car I've known, chassis and shocks are an amazing combo.
Only thing I'd change is it has tendwncy to understeer a little, but that just makes it safer to lend it to friends etc.. Who aren't so experienced in powerful RWD cars
Why the obsession with Hunter machines?
Yes it's a good tool but any computer alignment system that can "see" all 4 wheels will do the same job.
After that it's down to the finesse of the operating tech. You need someone who knows about wheel alignment.
I used to use an old John Bean system. it worked absolutely fine. The only issue was that it struggled tocope with cars that were lowered to the point the wheels were tucked in the arches or wit extremely low front or rear valances.
The string methind does work... assuming your datum points are accurate. If you've got the slightest distortion in the wheel rim or hub then you can't compensate for runout.
Yes it's a good tool but any computer alignment system that can "see" all 4 wheels will do the same job.
After that it's down to the finesse of the operating tech. You need someone who knows about wheel alignment.
I used to use an old John Bean system. it worked absolutely fine. The only issue was that it struggled tocope with cars that were lowered to the point the wheels were tucked in the arches or wit extremely low front or rear valances.
The string methind does work... assuming your datum points are accurate. If you've got the slightest distortion in the wheel rim or hub then you can't compensate for runout.
huntsen said:
My setup was transformed when I replaced the original Bridgestones with Michelin Pilot Sport 4S.
The rubber can certainly be an issue. When I first got my `07 I found the tramlining quite bad on certain stretches of road, but within six weeks I went from the existing Potenzas onto new Pirelli Sotozero winter rubber, and the problem disappeared. In summer the Bridgestones returned as did the squirrely handling, but with some vigourous driving over a couple of thousand km the rubber seemed to change it`s attitude and the situation improved somewhat. Since then went to Pilot Sports and haven`t looked back.As above the tyres make an enormous difference. The Michelin Pilot Sport 4S are awesome but it's not just the quality as I found out. Due to Astons typically low annual mileages tyres can need replacing purely on age.
I had tyres that were the original brand, loads of tread and no visible cracking.
Changed them out and the car was night and day.
I had tyres that were the original brand, loads of tread and no visible cracking.
Changed them out and the car was night and day.
leman600 said:
As above the tyres make an enormous difference. The Michelin Pilot Sport 4S are awesome but it's not just the quality as I found out. Due to Astons typically low annual mileages tyres can need replacing purely on age.
I had tyres that were the original brand, loads of tread and no visible cracking.
Changed them out and the car was night and day.
Absolutely. Sometimes people replace the original -- many years old -- Bridgestones with new Michelins and say the Bridgestones were terrible tires. Comparing old tires with new tires is apples to oranges. I'm not saying the Michelin isn't a better tire, but the car should handle very well on Bridgestones that aren't old.I had tyres that were the original brand, loads of tread and no visible cracking.
Changed them out and the car was night and day.
JonnyCJ said:
Do the wheel alignment parameters change with spacers ? I have 22mm spacers on the rear - predominantly because it looks so much better, but conscious that factory settings for angles etc may change because of them ?
No, the angles stay unchanged.However, I would recomment using 22mm (each side 11mm spacers ) in the front as well.
My 07 V8V responded with a better steering feel.
Thanks TR - the H&R ones on eBay appear more expensive than the H&R 22mm ones, but do come with the nuts.
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/H-R-2x11mm-wheel-spacer...
Are new nuts critical ? there's also SCC who do 11mm spacers less than half the price, but sans nuts.
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/H-R-2x11mm-wheel-spacer...
Are new nuts critical ? there's also SCC who do 11mm spacers less than half the price, but sans nuts.
Edited by JonnyCJ on Wednesday 27th May 15:07
Edited by JonnyCJ on Wednesday 27th May 15:27
[quote=mjk1]I had mine aligned on a Hunter machine a few years ago but decided to check it myself as I noticed recently he’d adjusted it to -11’ front total toe when it should be +6’ for factory settings.
So the question I have on this is, if people equiped with Hunter or similar systeams are getting the incorrect base values from the system, where do I find the corrrect factory settings?? -11' to +6' appears to be quite a big difference. I'd like to be able to present to the garage what the correct settings are that they should be aiming for.
Or alternatively does anyway have a set of improved settings we should be aiming for?
So the question I have on this is, if people equiped with Hunter or similar systeams are getting the incorrect base values from the system, where do I find the corrrect factory settings?? -11' to +6' appears to be quite a big difference. I'd like to be able to present to the garage what the correct settings are that they should be aiming for.
Or alternatively does anyway have a set of improved settings we should be aiming for?
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