V8 Vantage - useable power

[Healeyguy]

I’ve now completed a week’s daily driving of my 2009 V8V so I thought I would share some thoughts. My driving has been mainly on A roads with no motorways or stop/ go commuting. I’m averaging nearly 22 mpg and drive it pretty much the same way as the BMW 535d that it replaced.

In these driving conditions the Aston seems to lack a bit of grunt so I thought I’d compare the torque and power curves for both vehicles. As expected the BMW has masses more low end torque than the Aston. At 2000 revs it generates 430 nmtrs compared to only 210 nm for the Aston. Between 2000 and 3000 revs the BMW generates its max torque, which is a whopping 630 nm. By contrast the Aston’s max torque is 470 at 6000 revs.

Regarding power, the BMWs max hp of 308bhp comes in at 4000 and is sustained until 4750 revs. The Aston power ‘curve’ is a straight line up to max power of 425 hp at 7000 revs before tailing off. the BMW has more power than the Aston until about 4250 revs whereas the Aston’s power is at the top end so it needs to be revved.

Unsurprisingly this results in quite a big contrast in driving between the two. The BMW is effortless in normal driving conditions and has more useful power whereas you have to work the Aston through the gears and it starts to show its power once over 5000 revs, which is less useable in normal daily driving.

Of course, there are many great reasons why people buy an Aston, and revving it to generate the power is no doubt one of them!

I’d be interested in hearing others thoughts on their driving experiences.

[davek_964]

Mine was only a 4.3, so even lower on power and torque - but I found it was a car that felt slower than it really was - which I think was due to the power delivery feeling very linear. It was quick enough, and it was always a surprise to see what the speedo was showing when accelerating hard since it never felt like it was building speed that quickly. Even my slower car "felt" like it accelerated quicker.

By coincidence, I went for a drive with a few other cars at the weekend - I was in my 360, which always felt much quicker than my Vantage even though I suspected the difference wasn't that great. For a while I was following a 4.3 Vantage - we were not racing, and not even driving particularly fast - however there were a few instances of acceleration which confirmed that they accelerate faster than they feel.

[SL500UK]

These cars are heavy and they do feel a bit slow. I don't normally 'boy race' but did come a cross one of those people in a 2014 M5. At the lights I thought it would chew me up and leave me in the dust but surprisingly, the V8V wasn't all that far behind. Once they get going and you're above the 4000 rev range these cars are impressive: they are very well balanced and because of this you can carry quite a bit of speed going round corners without needing to lift-off (as I had to do in older 911s). I also have a 430d as a DD, and these have huge amounts of torque but driving the two cars in a spirited the manner, the V8V plants itself far better and you can apply a lot more speed through and exiting the corners.

[Jon39]

Healeyguy said:

...... The Aston power ‘curve’ is a straight line up to max power of 425 hp at 7000 revs before tailing off. the BMW has more power than the Aston until about 4250 revs whereas the Aston’s power is at the top end so it needs to be revved.

I don't know whether I should mention this, but you refer to 425 bhp. The car in the photo on your other topic, appears to be the 4.3 model, so I think the max power would be 380bhp.

Production of the 4.3 ended in 2008. Although the initial deliveries to customers of the (Model Year) 2009 4.7 commenced in September 2008, there were unsold 4.3 models at that time. A few of those cars were not sold until the summer of 2009, due to the financial crisis and cancelled orders.

Certainly no criticism of the wonderful 4.3, but you are right that it needs to be revved. If your BMW was a diesel, then of course low down torque would be plentiful.

[Healeyguy]

Hi Jon,

Yes my car is a 4.3 so even worse. The torque and power numbers I quote above are for the 4.7 so it’s the same issue, all the power comes in at the top end which isn’t very useable unless driven ‘spiritedly’.

[gs1]

Interesting reading here.

Does anyone have any torque figures for the V12 engine to compare to the figures for the V8?

Thanks.

[Jon39]

Healeyguy said:

Hi Jon,

Yes my car is a 4.3 so even worse. The torque and power numbers I quote above are for the 4.7 so it’s the same issue, all the power comes in at the top end which isn’t very useable unless driven ‘spiritedly’.

It is fun looking at performance figures (I note some electric cars can now do 0 to 60 mph in under 2 seconds, but back in our real world of mostly congested roads, I find the Vantage to have more than enough usable power. It seems very seldom that we can hold full throttle, for more than a few seconds at time on a public road.

Remember, they can do nought to prison in 10 seconds.

In one of the Bamford Rose videos, we hear the rev. limiter operating in (I am fairly sure 3rd gear) on a 60 mph limit road. Work it out!

Enjoy your car and may we please see a picture of your big Healey. Do you know the name John Gott?

Edited by Jon39 on Wednesday 17th June 19:06

[john ryan]

TBH, I can't see the value in comparing a turbo diesel with a naturally aspirated gasoline engine. Apples and oranges surely.

[anonymous-user]

john ryan said:

TBH, I can't see the value in comparing a turbo diesel with a naturally aspirated gasoline engine. Apples and oranges surely.

Indeed, you have to rev a NA engine to extract the performance.

My road car has 730NM at 4000rpm, every NA road car i drive now feels incredibly slow to perform unless you rev the arse off it.

It's a totally different way of using the engine.

[phumy]

gs1 said:

Interesting reading here.

Does anyone have any torque figures for the V12 engine to compare to the figures for the V8?

Thanks.

V12 Vantage S Torque = 457lb.ft = 620Nm

Power = 565BHP

[Milky400]

john ryan said:

TBH, I can't see the value in comparing a turbo diesel with a naturally aspirated gasoline engine. Apples and oranges surely.

I always remember thinking how quick my ford Mondeo ST Diesel felt after driving my Tuscan... in reality the Tuscan was twice as quick to 60 and way beyond. But town driving the Mondeo felt nippier. As you say it’s apples and pears.

[Healeyguy]

If you have low torque the only way to get high power is through higher revolutions as power evolves from torque. This is why big turbo diesels are so good to drive in normal conditions as revving the arse off a car, through every gear change every day, is a bit of pain. Aston’s would come into their own if the speed limit was 120mph.

I’m not trying to disparage Aston’s, I’ve just bought one. All petrol engines are the same. I’m quite happy to drive around perfectly normally and will have to adapt my driving style. I was just interested in the comparison as I’ve been driving big turbo diesels for 10 years. It’s me that has to change, not the car.

I attach a copy of my Healey at Prescott and another at Goodwood. John Gott, ex-policeman and Healey race and rally driver. He was killed in a Healey If my memory serves me well.
.

[anonymous-user]

Healeyguy said:

If you have low torque the only way to get high power is through higher revolutions as power evolves from torque. This is why big turbo diesels are so good to drive in normal conditions as revving the arse off a car, through every gear change every day, is a bit of pain. Aston’s would come into their own if the speed limit was 120mph.

I’m not trying to disparage Aston’s, I’ve just bought one. All petrol engines are the same. I’m quite happy to drive around perfectly normally and will have to adapt my driving style. I was just interested in the comparison as I’ve been driving big turbo diesels for 10 years. It’s me that has to change, not the car.

I attach a copy of my Healey at Prescott and another at Goodwood. John Gott, ex-policeman and Healey race and rally driver. He was killed in a Healey If my memory serves me well.
.

Mine is turbo petrol, they have come a long way in producing torque now.

[Healeyguy]

...seems like I’m only allowed one photo!

[gs1]

phumy said:

gs1 said:

Interesting reading here.

Does anyone have any torque figures for the V12 engine to compare to the figures for the V8?

Thanks.

V12 Vantage S Torque = 457lb.ft = 620Nm

Power = 565BHP

Thanks for this.

Do you know how the figures compare throughout the rev range?

The OP mentioned the torque figures for the V8 at different revs and I would like to know how the V12 compares at 2, 3 and 4 thousand revs.

Thanks.

[Jon39]

Healeyguy said:

I attach a copy of my Healey at Prescott and another at Goodwood. John Gott, ex-policeman and Healey race and rally driver. He was killed in a Healey If my memory serves me well.

Your Healey looks great. Action shots always better.
Expect you find your V8V easier to drive though. At least the steering wheel is smaller and when the back let go on mine at 70 mph, I was very grateful for the fancy electronics.

You might be interested to compare your Prescott times with two Vantages.
In recent years there has been a GT4 shared by two drivers (bought new and only used for hillclimbs), and a supercharged V8V.

John Gott was indeed a policeman. Chief constable of Northamptonshire and works driver for BMC. Probably a unique combination.
He died when racing at Lydden Hill, but it was possibly heart attack prior to impact. No attempt to turn into a corner.






John Gott in short sleeve shirt.
( As you can see, two photos are possible. Upload each one individually, selecting Forum Fit. )

Edited by Jon39 on Wednesday 17th June 21:17

[phumy]

gs1 said:

phumy said:

gs1 said:

Interesting reading here.

Does anyone have any torque figures for the V12 engine to compare to the figures for the V8?

Thanks.

V12 Vantage S Torque = 457lb.ft = 620Nm

Power = 565BHP

Thanks for this.

Do you know how the figures compare throughout the rev range?

The OP mentioned the torque figures for the V8 at different revs and I would like to know how the V12 compares at 2, 3 and 4 thousand revs.

Thanks.

Here you go:

[gralegav]

I've just finished upgrading my 4.3 V8V - it's pretty simple and relatively cost-effective to tweak the 4.3 to 4.7 power and beyond, but keep the sweeter revving nature of the 4.3.
Sports cats (200 cell ideally), replacement airboxes to GT4 spec and a remap will give you a true 405-415bhp, with no end of an improvement in drivability, particularly from stationary and at the top end. Cost depends on your choice of sports cats, but I managed to keep my total cost down to £2k. This meant my exhaust is still too loud, so if I was doing it again I'd get AHM to provide the cats, as my RS fabrications ones are tiny!

Next stop, custom X-pipe section from a race car engineer I happen to know....

[cornershop]

phumy said:

gs1 said:

phumy said:

gs1 said:

Interesting reading here.

Does anyone have any torque figures for the V12 engine to compare to the figures for the V8?

Thanks.

V12 Vantage S Torque = 457lb.ft = 620Nm

Power = 565BHP

Thanks for this.

Do you know how the figures compare throughout the rev range?

The OP mentioned the torque figures for the V8 at different revs and I would like to know how the V12 compares at 2, 3 and 4 thousand revs.

Thanks.

Here you go:

Then add some BR manifolds

[bogie]

Many mid range turbo saloon cars are as fast on paper as "sports cars" from other brands. Over the last 10-20 years the era of the M and RS German performance saloon/hatch/estate/4x4 has evolved so much you can buy a 2.5 ton SUV that is faster than a Vantage ....in a straight line at least.

If you want a low down flat torque curve then you need forced induction. Hence why modern turbo diesels are so usable. 300bhp in a TD is a great everyday car.

So what is the answer, fit a turbo engine to the Vantage ? ....yep....they have done that already