V8 Vantage from BMW M4
Discussion
Morning,
I am currently daily driving an M4 Cab and am looking to change to something a little less german with that something extra (looking at V8V and S3 Exige). It goes without saying the M4 is a great machine and would probably whip the V8V in many areas - but you know the rest..
Looking at Roadsters around the 2010-12 mark - 420hp.
Has anybody come from M3/M4 - if so whats your opinion?
- Sportshift, I assume this is like a dinosaur compared to MDCT?
- Manual, is the shift any good? Last manual I had was an S2000 and it was a gem.
- Performance. Internet numbers suggest the M4 is quite a bit faster across all areas - but how does the V8 feel? Wanting for more, or a good balance of size/power/performance. Power/weight suggests performance should be similar, but I think the slug of torque and very fast G'box in the M4 make it very potent.
- Roadster, how are the roofs? Tough? Maintenance free? Quiet? Ok in winter? I had to replace the roof on my S2000 and that wasn't cheap, doubt an AM is cheaper.
Look forward to hearing your opinions, thanks in advance.
Thanks,
Russ
I am currently daily driving an M4 Cab and am looking to change to something a little less german with that something extra (looking at V8V and S3 Exige). It goes without saying the M4 is a great machine and would probably whip the V8V in many areas - but you know the rest..
Looking at Roadsters around the 2010-12 mark - 420hp.
Has anybody come from M3/M4 - if so whats your opinion?
- Sportshift, I assume this is like a dinosaur compared to MDCT?
- Manual, is the shift any good? Last manual I had was an S2000 and it was a gem.
- Performance. Internet numbers suggest the M4 is quite a bit faster across all areas - but how does the V8 feel? Wanting for more, or a good balance of size/power/performance. Power/weight suggests performance should be similar, but I think the slug of torque and very fast G'box in the M4 make it very potent.
- Roadster, how are the roofs? Tough? Maintenance free? Quiet? Ok in winter? I had to replace the roof on my S2000 and that wasn't cheap, doubt an AM is cheaper.
Look forward to hearing your opinions, thanks in advance.
Thanks,
Russ
Ref. your manual gearchange question, Russ.
Manual and Sportshift both have Graziano gearboxes, the Sportshift version having a computer controlled gearchange.
Personally I love the manual gearchange for my V8V. It seems in keeping for one of the great end of era, naturally aspirated V8 sports cars and of course provides good driver involvement.
The gearchange may not be as slick as (the reputation for) an S2000, but changes are easy.
There are a couple of criticisms:-
1) Notchy from 1st to 2nd when the gearbox oil is cold. This is true and does seem to vary between individual cars. Once warm that feature goes away. I don't experience any problem, because my first mile after leaving home is always only in 1st gear.
2) For drivers who have a very long forearm, the gear knob position can be less than perfect. This is to do with the centre 'furniture' sometimes being in the way of an elbow. The low seating position can make the gearlever seem high. Probably no problem for most drivers, and something that is soon forgotten after the throttle has been pressed and the exhaust valves open.
Great cars, every drive seems a special occasion. Now that cars are quickly becoming automated armchairs, with self-parking, lane-assist, radar cruise control, auto wipers, headlights etc., I am sure all keen drivers will enjoy owning a Vantage while they still can.
Edited by Jon39 on Tuesday 28th July 09:53
Morning
The M4 and Exige are very different cars indeed, but the V8VR is a good mid point and compromise with the comfort and practicality of the M4 but all the drama of the exige.
I had two E46 M3's the latter being a cab, so a fair bit older than yours but Ive been driven in most of the later generation M cars too at some point.
That said any Aston will sound a million times better than the BMW and in a Roadster you get to enjoy that all the more. As Aston will make you feel special even stationary in a way the BMW just cannot achieve, and will get positive attention from everyone you meet, which I imagine will likely be a very pleasant change from being in the BM.
The V12V is the way to go if you want a Vantage that feels fast, and the howl of a V12 to boot but there is a price step up.
The M4 and Exige are very different cars indeed, but the V8VR is a good mid point and compromise with the comfort and practicality of the M4 but all the drama of the exige.
I had two E46 M3's the latter being a cab, so a fair bit older than yours but Ive been driven in most of the later generation M cars too at some point.
russy01 said:
v- Sportshift, I assume this is like a dinosaur compared to MDCT?
Chalk and Cheese. Sportshift is an automated manual, so its like the old SMG2 / SMG3 on the BMW's of the E46 era, but better. Lots of fun and engaging to drive, but makes for a terrible automatic. MDCT is an auto. If you like automatics then you probably wont like Sportshift.russy01 said:
- Manual, is the shift any good? Last manual I had was an S2000 and it was a gem.
The V8 manual is great gearbox, only reverse proves to be a problem, and with the lightweight clutch things are improved further.russy01 said:
- Performance. Internet numbers suggest the M4 is quite a bit faster across all areas - but how does the V8 feel? Wanting for more, or a good balance of size/power/performance. Power/weight suggests performance should be similar, but I think the slug of torque and very fast G'box in the M4 make it very potent.
If its out and out speed you want then a 4.7 V8 may end up dissapointing, although they are quite a step up on the earlier 4.3 V8s. Pretty sure your M4 will feel consideably quicker day to day driving, albeit the Vantage chassis is really well balanced and great fun and easy to throw around for a bit of sideways action.That said any Aston will sound a million times better than the BMW and in a Roadster you get to enjoy that all the more. As Aston will make you feel special even stationary in a way the BMW just cannot achieve, and will get positive attention from everyone you meet, which I imagine will likely be a very pleasant change from being in the BM.
The V12V is the way to go if you want a Vantage that feels fast, and the howl of a V12 to boot but there is a price step up.
russy01 said:
- Roadster, how are the roofs? Tough? Maintenance free? Quiet? Ok in winter? I had to replace the roof on my S2000 and that wasn't cheap, doubt an AM is cheaper.
I've never owned a Roadster, but again driven one and been driven in one several times. The roof appeared very solid and no leaks etc... I have never really seen or heard of any problems reported either.I have a 2010 4.7 V8V Roadster and agree with all the comments made so far. For me the manual gearbox is the one to have (but personal preference will affect that of course) and I don't find her lacking in speed - for sure the roof down experience with THAT engine noise more than makes up for any slight lack of speed compared to the M4 I'd think. Indeed, there are times I slow down just to hear it for longer (driving through tunnels etc!). Mine has some Bamford Rose (respected Aston independent) upgrades - sports cats, 3 way exhaust switch, re-map and new air intake boxes. These upgrades take the engine note to a new level and give it a bit more power - most noticeable in the useful / usable lower to mid range in my (not very expert) opinion. She certainly hustles along plenty quick enough on A and B roads and after a few minutes as she warms up and shakes down she feels tight and willing to work really hard - very rewarding to drive as underneath it still really is mainly an 'analogue' car so you get that 'connected to the road' feeling. Compared to other cars I've driven (911 mainly) the compromise between coupe and convertible is less noticeable.
The roof has been problem free although there are reports of roof control module failures due to its location (inside a rear wing and difficult to access!) causing overheating. Driving top up it feels like you're in a coupe to all intents and roof operation is swift and smooth and possible on the move (up to 30mph I think but that may be a guess, useful as you pull on / off the drive though!).
Feel free to ask any specific questions if you have and good luck in your search!
The roof has been problem free although there are reports of roof control module failures due to its location (inside a rear wing and difficult to access!) causing overheating. Driving top up it feels like you're in a coupe to all intents and roof operation is swift and smooth and possible on the move (up to 30mph I think but that may be a guess, useful as you pull on / off the drive though!).
Feel free to ask any specific questions if you have and good luck in your search!
Thanks for your help so far...
G’box - I drive the MDCT in paddle mode all the time, so I’d be interested to see what the sportshift is like, however do think the manual is where it’s at with this engine.
Out and out speed - to be fair I’m not concerned to lose some speed for added drama (and my license). I’m driving B roads hard, so the thought of the V8 in 2nd and 3rd outweighs an extra 7mph on a short straight.
Reliability - do I need to be looking for a warrantied main dealer car?
Fuel - I’m not concerned about fuel costs, but curious? I average 20mpg in the M4.
Looks like I need to find a garage and get a drive in one.
G’box - I drive the MDCT in paddle mode all the time, so I’d be interested to see what the sportshift is like, however do think the manual is where it’s at with this engine.
Out and out speed - to be fair I’m not concerned to lose some speed for added drama (and my license). I’m driving B roads hard, so the thought of the V8 in 2nd and 3rd outweighs an extra 7mph on a short straight.
Reliability - do I need to be looking for a warrantied main dealer car?
Fuel - I’m not concerned about fuel costs, but curious? I average 20mpg in the M4.
Looks like I need to find a garage and get a drive in one.
Hopefully this will help you. I had a manual V8V some years ago now (albeit the 4.3). I currently have an F80 M3 DCT (non Competition) and V12V (original six speed manual).
For a bang average driver like me the M3 is almost certainly quicker than the V12V as it just sorts most things out for you without you having to think about it. The DCT is incredibly smooth as well as you will already be aware and the chassis on the M3 is unbelievable for a 4 door saloon. It is almost too easy to drive pretty much as quickly as you like. I am sure for someone that can actually drive the V12V would be quicker than the M3 but it takes care and concentration compared to the M. However the V12V is just such a special car to own and drive. I love it in a way I don't love the M (and I am a big BMW fan). I hope never to sell the V12 but the BMW will be sold sooner rather than later.
I appreciate you are obviously talking about the 4.7 V8V so your M4 will definitely feel and be quite a bit quicker in a straight line and on country roads. Don't be surprised by this. It will also just feel newer in every way from the chassis to the tech to the look and feel of it inside. But it isn't a V8V and it isn't an Aston Martin. If I was in the position where it was a straight choice between these it would be the AM every time. Especially the roadster. The sound and feel of driving the AM is on another level and they are very good cars in their own right. It will feel quite different to the M.
For a bang average driver like me the M3 is almost certainly quicker than the V12V as it just sorts most things out for you without you having to think about it. The DCT is incredibly smooth as well as you will already be aware and the chassis on the M3 is unbelievable for a 4 door saloon. It is almost too easy to drive pretty much as quickly as you like. I am sure for someone that can actually drive the V12V would be quicker than the M3 but it takes care and concentration compared to the M. However the V12V is just such a special car to own and drive. I love it in a way I don't love the M (and I am a big BMW fan). I hope never to sell the V12 but the BMW will be sold sooner rather than later.
I appreciate you are obviously talking about the 4.7 V8V so your M4 will definitely feel and be quite a bit quicker in a straight line and on country roads. Don't be surprised by this. It will also just feel newer in every way from the chassis to the tech to the look and feel of it inside. But it isn't a V8V and it isn't an Aston Martin. If I was in the position where it was a straight choice between these it would be the AM every time. Especially the roadster. The sound and feel of driving the AM is on another level and they are very good cars in their own right. It will feel quite different to the M.
LC23 said:
Hopefully this will help you. I had a manual V8V some years ago now (albeit the 4.3). I currently have an F80 M3 DCT (non Competition) and V12V (original six speed manual).
For a bang average driver like me the M3 is almost certainly quicker than the V12V as it just sorts most things out for you without you having to think about it. The DCT is incredibly smooth as well as you will already be aware and the chassis on the M3 is unbelievable for a 4 door saloon. It is almost too easy to drive pretty much as quickly as you like. I am sure for someone that can actually drive the V12V would be quicker than the M3 but it takes care and concentration compared to the M. However the V12V is just such a special car to own and drive. I love it in a way I don't love the M (and I am a big BMW fan). I hope never to sell the V12 but the BMW will be sold sooner rather than later.
I appreciate you are obviously talking about the 4.7 V8V so your M4 will definitely feel and be quite a bit quicker in a straight line and on country roads. Don't be surprised by this. It will also just feel newer in every way from the chassis to the tech to the look and feel of it inside. But it isn't a V8V and it isn't an Aston Martin. If I was in the position where it was a straight choice between these it would be the AM every time. Especially the roadster. The sound and feel of driving the AM is on another level and they are very good cars in their own right. It will feel quite different to the M.
I’d absolutely love a V12V, but if spending £70+ I’d be looking at all sorts of different motors that come into that bracket. For a bang average driver like me the M3 is almost certainly quicker than the V12V as it just sorts most things out for you without you having to think about it. The DCT is incredibly smooth as well as you will already be aware and the chassis on the M3 is unbelievable for a 4 door saloon. It is almost too easy to drive pretty much as quickly as you like. I am sure for someone that can actually drive the V12V would be quicker than the M3 but it takes care and concentration compared to the M. However the V12V is just such a special car to own and drive. I love it in a way I don't love the M (and I am a big BMW fan). I hope never to sell the V12 but the BMW will be sold sooner rather than later.
I appreciate you are obviously talking about the 4.7 V8V so your M4 will definitely feel and be quite a bit quicker in a straight line and on country roads. Don't be surprised by this. It will also just feel newer in every way from the chassis to the tech to the look and feel of it inside. But it isn't a V8V and it isn't an Aston Martin. If I was in the position where it was a straight choice between these it would be the AM every time. Especially the roadster. The sound and feel of driving the AM is on another level and they are very good cars in their own right. It will feel quite different to the M.
What you say about the V8V is everything I imagine. You’re right about the M car - there is this stigma about it being unapproachable, but once you’re gelled with it you can really give it some and it’s relentlessly fast for a 3/4 series.
As I said before I’m happy to drop some of this all out performance for a more exciting ownership and desire to own and clean a car - whilst nice my M4 feels more appliance than special car.
My only issue or concern with the V8V is how early 4.3’s are now so cheap - where are these going to go and will there be a fleet of them down MacDs soon?
Other than that I need to get my bum in one and give it a go.
I think I need to go find a
Hi
I went from my E46 M3 to various 911's ( including a GT3 CS) a while ago and since falling out of love with Porsche ( long boring story ) bought a manual SP10 version of the Vantage Coupe. Replaced that with a V12S which then replaced with a new shape Vantage which have just sold as simply not using a daily currently. I also have a Vantage GT8 ( manual ) and funnily enough a Exige 410.
Manual gear change on the SP10 V8 not as good as the GT3 or indeed the old E46 but perfectly liveable with - bit of a pain in traffic daily especially in 1st or 2nd but as long as careful and positive in action not a major issue.GT8 gearchange just great but its not really a car to drive daily.
The V12S was Sports shift III and loved it - suited the character of the car and much easier in traffic imho - don't know if that's the same box as fitted to the V8.
Exige is a completely different kettle of fish and don't see as a either / or when talking with the Aston - its definitely not a passenger friendly car , its noisy , its difficult to enter or exit and being fully composite bodied makes some interesting noises .As a drivers car though and for blasts through the countryside its epic and made even more addictive by the supercharger a few inches from your head.
Going from a Porsche dealer that was painful in the extreme to an Aston dealer that was and is great to deal with and also here Lotus were great to deal with too.
You need to drive both but you'll think the M3 very unexciting in comparison -I loved my E46 but never felt that special to me.
I went from my E46 M3 to various 911's ( including a GT3 CS) a while ago and since falling out of love with Porsche ( long boring story ) bought a manual SP10 version of the Vantage Coupe. Replaced that with a V12S which then replaced with a new shape Vantage which have just sold as simply not using a daily currently. I also have a Vantage GT8 ( manual ) and funnily enough a Exige 410.
Manual gear change on the SP10 V8 not as good as the GT3 or indeed the old E46 but perfectly liveable with - bit of a pain in traffic daily especially in 1st or 2nd but as long as careful and positive in action not a major issue.GT8 gearchange just great but its not really a car to drive daily.
The V12S was Sports shift III and loved it - suited the character of the car and much easier in traffic imho - don't know if that's the same box as fitted to the V8.
Exige is a completely different kettle of fish and don't see as a either / or when talking with the Aston - its definitely not a passenger friendly car , its noisy , its difficult to enter or exit and being fully composite bodied makes some interesting noises .As a drivers car though and for blasts through the countryside its epic and made even more addictive by the supercharger a few inches from your head.
Going from a Porsche dealer that was painful in the extreme to an Aston dealer that was and is great to deal with and also here Lotus were great to deal with too.
You need to drive both but you'll think the M3 very unexciting in comparison -I loved my E46 but never felt that special to me.
russy01 said:
I’d absolutely love a V12V, but if spending £70+ I’d be looking at all sorts of different motors that come into that bracket.
What you say about the V8V is everything I imagine. You’re right about the M car - there is this stigma about it being unapproachable, but once you’re gelled with it you can really give it some and it’s relentlessly fast for a 3/4 series.
As I said before I’m happy to drop some of this all out performance for a more exciting ownership and desire to own and clean a car - whilst nice my M4 feels more appliance than special car.
My only issue or concern with the V8V is how early 4.3’s are now so cheap - where are these going to go and will there be a fleet of them down MacDs soon?
Other than that I need to get my bum in one and give it a go.
I think I need to go find a
That's a perfect description of the M for me as well. It's brilliant. But it's an appliance. It's almost too good at what it does which is pretty everything very very well. It doesn't give you "that" feeling however. What you say about the V8V is everything I imagine. You’re right about the M car - there is this stigma about it being unapproachable, but once you’re gelled with it you can really give it some and it’s relentlessly fast for a 3/4 series.
As I said before I’m happy to drop some of this all out performance for a more exciting ownership and desire to own and clean a car - whilst nice my M4 feels more appliance than special car.
My only issue or concern with the V8V is how early 4.3’s are now so cheap - where are these going to go and will there be a fleet of them down MacDs soon?
Other than that I need to get my bum in one and give it a go.
I think I need to go find a
LC23 said:
That's a perfect description of the M for me as well. It's brilliant. But it's an appliance. It's almost too good at what it does which is pretty everything very very well. It doesn't give you "that" feeling however.
Yup, for what I need right now it’s the perfect car (as its handy having the rear seats etc), but it just doesn’t hit the spot or excite! I had a couple weeks without driving the other day and the M4 felt like the Millennium falcon for about 10mins - until I was bored again.
Then just last week somebody arrived at work in a relatively old DB9 and whilst I told myself the M4 was better in probably every area I could not help be lured to the car just before she started it up!! Proper engines...
I found the M4 very dull and the manicured sound very computerised and truly awful, but admit they are quick. The slightly older na M3 V8 was by far the best “M” in my opinion.
I came from a TVR Tuscan and the Tuscan was quick, very quick and a complete animal. The Vantage is growing on me, it wasn’t love at first site as it was with the Tuscan. The Vantage does most of what the Tuscan does but in a nice crisp shirt and tie as opposed to a baseball cap, white trainers and Adidas shorts.
This doesn’t mean I find it dull, just not as exhilarating, but that’s what I wanted, as the Tuscan was starting to scare me. My only advice is to drive one, they are amazing cars and don’t have the mass produced awful German feel and interior look. But if you’re looking for a blistering quick car, I’d maybe look elsewhere.
I came from a TVR Tuscan and the Tuscan was quick, very quick and a complete animal. The Vantage is growing on me, it wasn’t love at first site as it was with the Tuscan. The Vantage does most of what the Tuscan does but in a nice crisp shirt and tie as opposed to a baseball cap, white trainers and Adidas shorts.
This doesn’t mean I find it dull, just not as exhilarating, but that’s what I wanted, as the Tuscan was starting to scare me. My only advice is to drive one, they are amazing cars and don’t have the mass produced awful German feel and interior look. But if you’re looking for a blistering quick car, I’d maybe look elsewhere.
russy01 said:
Yup, for what I need right now it’s the perfect car (as its handy having the rear seats etc), but it just doesn’t hit the spot or excite!
I had a couple weeks without driving the other day and the M4 felt like the Millennium falcon for about 10mins - until I was bored again.
Then just last week somebody arrived at work in a relatively old DB9 and whilst I told myself the M4 was better in probably every area I could not help be lured to the car just before she started it up!! Proper engines...
They appear even better when driven by a female.I had a couple weeks without driving the other day and the M4 felt like the Millennium falcon for about 10mins - until I was bored again.
Then just last week somebody arrived at work in a relatively old DB9 and whilst I told myself the M4 was better in probably every area I could not help be lured to the car just before she started it up!! Proper engines...
I had a Vantage S Roadster and it was a great car, really enjoyed the time I had it. When I first got it I had some annoying niggles but that was more to do with the lack of prep from the dealership, once those were sorted under warranty the car was faultless.
Sitting in the Vantage is a really lovely place to be, far more of a bespoke feel than an M4 and it's just an event to drive, sounds fantastic and handles remarkably well for a heavy car (up to a limit). Won't be as quick as the M4 but plenty quick enough and easy enough to break traction at the back if you want a bit of playfulness. SSII gearbox is just about OK, easy enough to live with but would have preferred a manual.
I took mine on cruises through France and Spain and it's a great GT and a good sports car when you get to the mountains.
Surprisingly inexpensive to service with Aston's fixed price servicing but if anything does go wrong parts are very expensive.
I sold my Aston and now have an S3 Exige, quite change but can't recommend the Lotus enough if you want a blisteringly fast, fairly impractical weekend car.
Sitting in the Vantage is a really lovely place to be, far more of a bespoke feel than an M4 and it's just an event to drive, sounds fantastic and handles remarkably well for a heavy car (up to a limit). Won't be as quick as the M4 but plenty quick enough and easy enough to break traction at the back if you want a bit of playfulness. SSII gearbox is just about OK, easy enough to live with but would have preferred a manual.
I took mine on cruises through France and Spain and it's a great GT and a good sports car when you get to the mountains.
Surprisingly inexpensive to service with Aston's fixed price servicing but if anything does go wrong parts are very expensive.
I sold my Aston and now have an S3 Exige, quite change but can't recommend the Lotus enough if you want a blisteringly fast, fairly impractical weekend car.
Big E 118 said:
I had a Vantage S Roadster and it was a great car, really enjoyed the time I had it. When I first got it I had some annoying niggles but that was more to do with the lack of prep from the dealership, once those were sorted under warranty the car was faultless.
Sitting in the Vantage is a really lovely place to be, far more of a bespoke feel than an M4 and it's just an event to drive, sounds fantastic and handles remarkably well for a heavy car (up to a limit). Won't be as quick as the M4 but plenty quick enough and easy enough to break traction at the back if you want a bit of playfulness. SSII gearbox is just about OK, easy enough to live with but would have preferred a manual.
I took mine on cruises through France and Spain and it's a great GT and a good sports car when you get to the mountains.
Surprisingly inexpensive to service with Aston's fixed price servicing but if anything does go wrong parts are very expensive.
I sold my Aston and now have an S3 Exige, quite change but can't recommend the Lotus enough if you want a blisteringly fast, fairly impractical weekend car.
Interested to see you now have an S3 Exige, as this has been on my list for a while. However I decided that the AM can be used daily and Id simply replace the M4... but with the Exige Id probably want a run around for work in the winter and that it might not live outside very well? Sitting in the Vantage is a really lovely place to be, far more of a bespoke feel than an M4 and it's just an event to drive, sounds fantastic and handles remarkably well for a heavy car (up to a limit). Won't be as quick as the M4 but plenty quick enough and easy enough to break traction at the back if you want a bit of playfulness. SSII gearbox is just about OK, easy enough to live with but would have preferred a manual.
I took mine on cruises through France and Spain and it's a great GT and a good sports car when you get to the mountains.
Surprisingly inexpensive to service with Aston's fixed price servicing but if anything does go wrong parts are very expensive.
I sold my Aston and now have an S3 Exige, quite change but can't recommend the Lotus enough if you want a blisteringly fast, fairly impractical weekend car.
As I have said a few times I am happy to lose some speed for added drama everywhere else!
russy01 said:
Interested to see you now have an S3 Exige, as this has been on my list for a while. However I decided that the AM can be used daily and Id simply replace the M4... but with the Exige Id probably want a run around for work in the winter and that it might not live outside very well?
As I have said a few times I am happy to lose some speed for added drama everywhere else!
S3 Exige is great and had been on my list for a long time, luckily it's only needed as a fun car so the impracticalities can be overlooked. Not sure I'd leave one outside permanently. Saying that a friend used his for a daily driver over a fairly long commute and did something like 40k miles in it and didn't complain.As I have said a few times I am happy to lose some speed for added drama everywhere else!
You'll certainly get the added drama with the Aston! I went for the "S" version as the stock exhaust is a bit louder and the carbon splitter and diffuser are standard, not sure I noticed the extra 10bhp.
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