Why should I spend £15k more.....
Discussion
Morning all,
I’ve been on the hunt for a Vantage (thanks lockdown) and I’m just stuck with what to do. Over thinking is a keen hobby of mine....
I had initially been looking for a 997.2 GTS and after missing out on the ‘prefect one’ I decided that I’d focus solely on the Vantage (previously had a 996 and a 997.1) and more specifically the N430.
So, me being stuck, I think it is because of the lack of difference between the S and the N430, well, apart from price. Added to that there is a V12 for similar money to the N430!
The cars;
N430
https://www.premiergt.com/used/cars/aston-martin/v...
S
https://www.maundrells.co.uk/aston-martin-vantage-...
V12
https://mcgurk.com/aston-martin-for-sale/aston-mar...
Is the S ‘too cheap’? I’m seriously tempted at the £15k saving though. The N430 is manual and has the lightweight seats which is a dream combination for me. Then the V12, even with its hilariously styled gear knob, feels like it could be another level of specialness.
Whilst I hate to mention it I must consider depreciation! I’d like to think that the S mentioned is unlikely to drop much more in the next 4 years along with the V12 but the N430 is anywhere between £2-8k more than others for sale so could be not quite badly, also, is it that ‘special’?
Thoughts?
Best,
Alex
I’ve been on the hunt for a Vantage (thanks lockdown) and I’m just stuck with what to do. Over thinking is a keen hobby of mine....
I had initially been looking for a 997.2 GTS and after missing out on the ‘prefect one’ I decided that I’d focus solely on the Vantage (previously had a 996 and a 997.1) and more specifically the N430.
So, me being stuck, I think it is because of the lack of difference between the S and the N430, well, apart from price. Added to that there is a V12 for similar money to the N430!
The cars;
N430
https://www.premiergt.com/used/cars/aston-martin/v...
S
https://www.maundrells.co.uk/aston-martin-vantage-...
V12
https://mcgurk.com/aston-martin-for-sale/aston-mar...
Is the S ‘too cheap’? I’m seriously tempted at the £15k saving though. The N430 is manual and has the lightweight seats which is a dream combination for me. Then the V12, even with its hilariously styled gear knob, feels like it could be another level of specialness.
Whilst I hate to mention it I must consider depreciation! I’d like to think that the S mentioned is unlikely to drop much more in the next 4 years along with the V12 but the N430 is anywhere between £2-8k more than others for sale so could be not quite badly, also, is it that ‘special’?
Thoughts?
Best,
Alex
of the 3 cars you list, I expect the V12V will loose the least in depreciation, followed by the S, with the N430 fairing the worst.
The N430 is an S in a special set spec, albeit a good combo, but little more. Suggest you test drive the V12V to see for yourself why its a somewhat more enticing proposition than the other two.
The N430 is an S in a special set spec, albeit a good combo, but little more. Suggest you test drive the V12V to see for yourself why its a somewhat more enticing proposition than the other two.
AdamV12V said:
of the 3 cars you list, I expect the V12V will loose the least in depreciation, followed by the S, with the N430 fairing the worst.
The N430 is an S in a special set spec, albeit a good combo, but little more. Suggest you test drive the V12V to see for yourself why its a somewhat more enticing proposition than the other two.
Agree with Adam. Also - the V12 is a fantastic car available at silly money at the money. If you can stretch to this - I'd definitely go with it over the V8. The N430 is an S in a special set spec, albeit a good combo, but little more. Suggest you test drive the V12V to see for yourself why its a somewhat more enticing proposition than the other two.
Chris.
Thanks for the replies,
I’ve purposely not even sat in a V12 for fear of it prompting the response “what is a V8?”
Will it be a case of not missing what I’ve never had in terms of the seats? I had a quick look and changing them requires a small mortgage!
Unfortunately a back to back test drive of all three isn’t really possible due to location. Maybe McGurks could arrange something as I believe they have all three variants in stock.
Is the V12 as ‘bullet proof’ as the V8?
I’ve purposely not even sat in a V12 for fear of it prompting the response “what is a V8?”
Will it be a case of not missing what I’ve never had in terms of the seats? I had a quick look and changing them requires a small mortgage!
Unfortunately a back to back test drive of all three isn’t really possible due to location. Maybe McGurks could arrange something as I believe they have all three variants in stock.
Is the V12 as ‘bullet proof’ as the V8?
ST12AT said:
Is the V12 as ‘bullet proof’ as the V8?
There have been a couple of quite rare V12 problems mentioned a few times in this forum:-
Primary cat ingestion. An insurance against that is to have the original exhaust manifolds replaced and not have primary cats.
The V12 ticking sound. I have forgotten the background to this, but I think one of the Bamford Rose YouTube videos explains it.
You will probably recall the Top Gear programme (can be seen on YouTube), where JC says very little whilst driving the V12 Vantage, but did say, "Wonderful, wonderful, wonderful".
I never saw the value in the limited editions N420, N430 etc
The "S" spec car for under £40k offers best VFM and will give you the overall experience. Other than a few bits of trim the only perceived benefit the N430 has is some seats and I prefer the S seats anyway for long journey comfort.
So I would either get the S and see how you get on with it, there is more than enough performance for road use.
Yes the V12 is on another performance level, at least in a straight line anyway, but as soon as you stop using that performance you are sat in the same environment, its not like a vastly different experience other than the noise is different of course. Is that worth the extra expense? ....well depends what you are looking for, if its straight line speed some people have spent £££ upgrading their 4.7 engine so they get closer to the outright power of the base V12, in a lighter car.
To some people the V12 is an aspirational thing, you just must have the V12 one day. I would like a V12 manual Roadster some time in the future. In the meanwhile im more than happy with a V8
The "S" spec car for under £40k offers best VFM and will give you the overall experience. Other than a few bits of trim the only perceived benefit the N430 has is some seats and I prefer the S seats anyway for long journey comfort.
So I would either get the S and see how you get on with it, there is more than enough performance for road use.
Yes the V12 is on another performance level, at least in a straight line anyway, but as soon as you stop using that performance you are sat in the same environment, its not like a vastly different experience other than the noise is different of course. Is that worth the extra expense? ....well depends what you are looking for, if its straight line speed some people have spent £££ upgrading their 4.7 engine so they get closer to the outright power of the base V12, in a lighter car.
To some people the V12 is an aspirational thing, you just must have the V12 one day. I would like a V12 manual Roadster some time in the future. In the meanwhile im more than happy with a V8
bogie said:
I never saw the value in the limited editions N420, N430 etc
The "S" spec car for under £40k offers best VFM and will give you the overall experience. Other than a few bits of trim the only perceived benefit the N430 has is some seats and I prefer the S seats anyway for long journey comfort.
So I would either get the S and see how you get on with it, there is more than enough performance for road use.
Yes the V12 is on another performance level, at least in a straight line anyway, but as soon as you stop using that performance you are sat in the same environment, its not like a vastly different experience other than the noise is different of course. Is that worth the extra expense? ....well depends what you are looking for, if its straight line speed some people have spent £££ upgrading their 4.7 engine so they get closer to the outright power of the base V12, in a lighter car.
To some people the V12 is an aspirational thing, you just must have the V12 one day. I would like a V12 manual Roadster some time in the future. In the meanwhile im more than happy with a V8
I does occur to me that the N430 isn’t a real limited/special edition, more of a “let’s get a few more out the door” model and therefore won’t be valued as such in years to come. The "S" spec car for under £40k offers best VFM and will give you the overall experience. Other than a few bits of trim the only perceived benefit the N430 has is some seats and I prefer the S seats anyway for long journey comfort.
So I would either get the S and see how you get on with it, there is more than enough performance for road use.
Yes the V12 is on another performance level, at least in a straight line anyway, but as soon as you stop using that performance you are sat in the same environment, its not like a vastly different experience other than the noise is different of course. Is that worth the extra expense? ....well depends what you are looking for, if its straight line speed some people have spent £££ upgrading their 4.7 engine so they get closer to the outright power of the base V12, in a lighter car.
To some people the V12 is an aspirational thing, you just must have the V12 one day. I would like a V12 manual Roadster some time in the future. In the meanwhile im more than happy with a V8
It really isn’t about the raw speed element for me with the V8 vs. V12 and as you say, what else really do you get? I have a quick enough MK1 Focus RS that is great for B road fun, and yes, I appreciate that is not really comparing apples with apples. The only thing is the kudos of the V12. Is it worth the additional cost? I guess without having the emotional feedback from driving both I won’t know. Some quick man maths says the more cost effective V8S means I close both eyes and justify something else on top....
W12GT said:
Wow that’s some serious lurking, 4 posts in over 10 years!
Got to be a V12 if you can stretch to it.
I couldn’t even tell you what my other post was, I dare say I’d rather not know as I would be been in my early 20s and not known for my great insight!Got to be a V12 if you can stretch to it.
What can I say, I like to read and observe!
With the priorities mentioned including depreciation I think the V12 has to be considered.
The V8 is bullet proof apart from possible moderatly expensive oil leak on timing cover.
The V12 is very good with a good reliability record.
The primary cat ingestion is not very common but a show stopper if it happens so cat removal in old manifolds or tubular headers (each with ecu flash) can be performed easily enough. I'm considering this myself but certainly not losing sleep over it. I think cat removal and flash around 3k?
The other V12 much discussed expense is the ceramic brakes and although they are indeed eye wateringly dear there are professional re coating companies that rescondition them for little more than new steel disc money. It has to be said that they last considerably longer than there steel counter parts and for all types of "on road" driving are the optimum setup.
You get the special feel in ALL of the cars you mention but the V12 has just that little extra. I've gone from 4.3 to S to V12 and very much enjoyed the journey. The V12 has not cost me noticeably more than the V8s.
The engine dominates the car in a good way and the extra exclusivity seals its price point above the V8s for the future.
The V8 is bullet proof apart from possible moderatly expensive oil leak on timing cover.
The V12 is very good with a good reliability record.
The primary cat ingestion is not very common but a show stopper if it happens so cat removal in old manifolds or tubular headers (each with ecu flash) can be performed easily enough. I'm considering this myself but certainly not losing sleep over it. I think cat removal and flash around 3k?
The other V12 much discussed expense is the ceramic brakes and although they are indeed eye wateringly dear there are professional re coating companies that rescondition them for little more than new steel disc money. It has to be said that they last considerably longer than there steel counter parts and for all types of "on road" driving are the optimum setup.
You get the special feel in ALL of the cars you mention but the V12 has just that little extra. I've gone from 4.3 to S to V12 and very much enjoyed the journey. The V12 has not cost me noticeably more than the V8s.
The engine dominates the car in a good way and the extra exclusivity seals its price point above the V8s for the future.
The choice is between the N430 and the V12. Too many miles on the S, toss it out. V12 is probably near the bottom of it’s depreciation and no doubt the best long term investment since it's a manual and rarer. N430 the newest with low mileage, unfortunate only one photo.
Edited by AstonV on Thursday 6th August 16:43
AstonV said:
The choice is between the N430 and the V12. Too many miles on the S, toss it out. V12 is probably near the bottom of it’s depreciation and no doubt the best long term investment since it's a manual and rarer. N430 the newest with low mileage, unfortunate only one photo.
44k miles too many? Give over
44k miles too many? Give over
Edited by AstonV on Thursday 6th August 16:43
ST12AT said:
I does occur to me that the N430 isn’t a real limited/special edition, more of a “let’s get a few more out the door” model and therefore won’t be valued as such in years to come.
It really isn’t about the raw speed element for me with the V8 vs. V12 and as you say, what else really do you get? I have a quick enough MK1 Focus RS that is great for B road fun, and yes, I appreciate that is not really comparing apples with apples. The only thing is the kudos of the V12. Is it worth the additional cost? I guess without having the emotional feedback from driving both I won’t know. Some quick man maths says the more cost effective V8S means I close both eyes and justify something else on top....
The N430 was never a limited edition , just a variation of the Vantage model.It really isn’t about the raw speed element for me with the V8 vs. V12 and as you say, what else really do you get? I have a quick enough MK1 Focus RS that is great for B road fun, and yes, I appreciate that is not really comparing apples with apples. The only thing is the kudos of the V12. Is it worth the additional cost? I guess without having the emotional feedback from driving both I won’t know. Some quick man maths says the more cost effective V8S means I close both eyes and justify something else on top....
Valuations differ between the N430 and S model very slightly from what I see on AT currently, I certainly don’t think one N430 owner would expect a value as a limited edition .
leman600 said:
With the priorities mentioned including depreciation I think the V12 has to be considered.
The V8 is bullet proof apart from possible moderatly expensive oil leak on timing cover.
The V12 is very good with a good reliability record.
The primary cat ingestion is not very common but a show stopper if it happens so cat removal in old manifolds or tubular headers (each with ecu flash) can be performed easily enough. I'm considering this myself but certainly not losing sleep over it. I think cat removal and flash around 3k?
The other V12 much discussed expense is the ceramic brakes and although they are indeed eye wateringly dear there are professional re coating companies that rescondition them for little more than new steel disc money. It has to be said that they last considerably longer than there steel counter parts and for all types of "on road" driving are the optimum setup.
You get the special feel in ALL of the cars you mention but the V12 has just that little extra. I've gone from 4.3 to S to V12 and very much enjoyed the journey. The V12 has not cost me noticeably more than the V8s.
The engine dominates the car in a good way and the extra exclusivity seals its price point above the V8s for the future.
A nice little run of three model upgrades there, is there anything different between the V8S and the V12 in regards to the interior? Both that I’ve listed are MY11 but the N430 is MY15 (iPhone connectivity is pretty important for those long journeys, although I’m not bothered by the in built sat nav). The pictures of the V12 make the leather look very shiny and creased, the lightweight seats look far nicer.The V8 is bullet proof apart from possible moderatly expensive oil leak on timing cover.
The V12 is very good with a good reliability record.
The primary cat ingestion is not very common but a show stopper if it happens so cat removal in old manifolds or tubular headers (each with ecu flash) can be performed easily enough. I'm considering this myself but certainly not losing sleep over it. I think cat removal and flash around 3k?
The other V12 much discussed expense is the ceramic brakes and although they are indeed eye wateringly dear there are professional re coating companies that rescondition them for little more than new steel disc money. It has to be said that they last considerably longer than there steel counter parts and for all types of "on road" driving are the optimum setup.
You get the special feel in ALL of the cars you mention but the V12 has just that little extra. I've gone from 4.3 to S to V12 and very much enjoyed the journey. The V12 has not cost me noticeably more than the V8s.
The engine dominates the car in a good way and the extra exclusivity seals its price point above the V8s for the future.
Interiors could be near identical, its all down to owner preference on trim etc. The earlier V12s I drove had alcantara nearly everywhere. You do get a special gear knob in the V12 that are over £500 as upgrade (maybe more)
Im not sure it mentions the engine size anywhere inside ? thinking about it, if I didnt start the engine and entered the car blind, im not sure I could tell if I was in a V8 or V12 ?
...unlike the "special editions" which do have badging to point that out
The only place you will see "V12 Vantage" will be on the door sill plaques when you open the door.
Im not sure it mentions the engine size anywhere inside ? thinking about it, if I didnt start the engine and entered the car blind, im not sure I could tell if I was in a V8 or V12 ?
...unlike the "special editions" which do have badging to point that out
The only place you will see "V12 Vantage" will be on the door sill plaques when you open the door.
Interesting selection.
The S is great value, I bought non-S with MANY more miles (at the right price!) and care not a jot! Pulls like a (fresh) horse and no regrets at all. I have upgraded for not that much £ for a better-than-S performance except for the brakes, but reflect if I should have bought S as the starting point in the first place? Friends have commented that the car looks like new, and they do, if the car is well cared for no matter the miles. My friends have more expensive taste, fwiw!
If you can stretch the V12 it really IS a fantastic engine and I can really understand the joy, even day to day motoring.... yes they are the same standing still. But so what?
I like the lightness and handling of an uprated V8 and this is more affordable, if you are to keep the car long term.
Specials? It's a 'nah' from me.
The S is great value, I bought non-S with MANY more miles (at the right price!) and care not a jot! Pulls like a (fresh) horse and no regrets at all. I have upgraded for not that much £ for a better-than-S performance except for the brakes, but reflect if I should have bought S as the starting point in the first place? Friends have commented that the car looks like new, and they do, if the car is well cared for no matter the miles. My friends have more expensive taste, fwiw!
If you can stretch the V12 it really IS a fantastic engine and I can really understand the joy, even day to day motoring.... yes they are the same standing still. But so what?
I like the lightness and handling of an uprated V8 and this is more affordable, if you are to keep the car long term.
Specials? It's a 'nah' from me.
ST12AT said:
The pictures of the V12 make the leather look very shiny and creased, the lightweight seats look far nicer.
Unfortunately leather does take on a sheen with use. Many people make the mistake of using a leather conditioner. Modern leather is basically painted, leather conditioner will just lay on the top like oil. Probably can have it cleaned and take lot of that shine away. Gassing Station | Aston Martin | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff