Vantage wheel studs, spacers, and lug nuts...WTF is this??
Discussion
I'm trying to remove the spacers the previous owner put on my 2007 V8 Vantage, but it looks like I'll have to do a lot more than just unbolt things...I'm trying to figure out if I need to buy new wheel studs and lug nuts, what size to buy, and what's involved with replacing them.
Up front, the studs stick out 42mm with coarse threads. The lug nuts I have extend deeper into the wheel than the stock ones, but without the spacer, they bottom out on the stud before securing the wheel. I suspect stock lug nuts will have the same issue.
In the rear, it looks like the original studs were cut and the adapters secured with nuts like I've never seen before. Can I buy a standard socket for these or what? These studs stick out 31mm with a fine thread.
How far should studs stick out from the factory (or, what length are the stock studs) front and rear? I've read that Aston sells complete hubs and not just studs, but surely there are some same-spec studs that I can hammer in? Would I need a press?
Anyway, any info would be greatly appreciated.
Up front, the studs stick out 42mm with coarse threads. The lug nuts I have extend deeper into the wheel than the stock ones, but without the spacer, they bottom out on the stud before securing the wheel. I suspect stock lug nuts will have the same issue.
In the rear, it looks like the original studs were cut and the adapters secured with nuts like I've never seen before. Can I buy a standard socket for these or what? These studs stick out 31mm with a fine thread.
How far should studs stick out from the factory (or, what length are the stock studs) front and rear? I've read that Aston sells complete hubs and not just studs, but surely there are some same-spec studs that I can hammer in? Would I need a press?
Anyway, any info would be greatly appreciated.
Not sure on the lengths, however, a new Firstline hub/bearing unit with the correct length studs is approx £175 if you buy a pair. Lots of Vantage/DB9 owners have them fitted and are very happy. Might be worth contacting Firstline and asking the stud length, or check their online parts catalogue.
I fitted 4 x new on my V8V (they're the same front and rear) https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/233748388138?mkevt=1&am...
This link may also help with identifying what you have https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/H-R-DRM-TRAK-23mm-Wheel...
I fitted 4 x new on my V8V (they're the same front and rear) https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/233748388138?mkevt=1&am...
This link may also help with identifying what you have https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/H-R-DRM-TRAK-23mm-Wheel...
Edited by JonnyCJ on Wednesday 10th February 16:34
It looks to me as though the previous owner has replaced the original studs with longer ones so that there is sufficient stud protruding beyond the spacer to give correct length engagement in the wheel (lug) nuts. If you want to remove the spacer it looks like you'll need to fit new studs - these are splined and press into the hubs from the back - pic below is just an illustration.
For the rears I'm guessing the spacer is thicker, which means they've had to bolt a studded spacer to the hubs by either cutting (as you believe) or replacing the original AML studs with something shorter so the stud and nut can sit within the thickness of the new spacer.
What you have to hope is where they replaced the studs they didn't have to drill out or ream out the holes in the hubs to accommodate the spline of the new extended studs, because if they did then standard AML studs will no longer fit in the hubs correctly. Sadly, as far as I know, unless you can get the technical details of the studs you have, the only way to know for sure is to remove a stud and accurately measure the hole in the hub.
I believe you can drive the studs out with a big hammer as long as there is sufficient clearance behind the hub to allow the full length of the stud to pass through the hole in the hub so it can be removed fully - once you drive the spline out the stud will be loose; I don't know if I'd personally do that as it'd be the wheel bearings taking the hammer impacts. Similarly, I have heard you can wind the new studs in by using a nut and spacer on the threads, but again you're using the thread to pull the spline of the new stud in and the insertion force will be quite high - afaik both removal and refit are usually done on a press, which requires removing the hubs from the car.
I hope I'm wrong and there is an easier way and I'll let others who have more than a theoretical knowledge chip in. I would personally never use spacers as they also slightly increase the moment exerted on the wheel bearings
For the rears I'm guessing the spacer is thicker, which means they've had to bolt a studded spacer to the hubs by either cutting (as you believe) or replacing the original AML studs with something shorter so the stud and nut can sit within the thickness of the new spacer.
What you have to hope is where they replaced the studs they didn't have to drill out or ream out the holes in the hubs to accommodate the spline of the new extended studs, because if they did then standard AML studs will no longer fit in the hubs correctly. Sadly, as far as I know, unless you can get the technical details of the studs you have, the only way to know for sure is to remove a stud and accurately measure the hole in the hub.
I believe you can drive the studs out with a big hammer as long as there is sufficient clearance behind the hub to allow the full length of the stud to pass through the hole in the hub so it can be removed fully - once you drive the spline out the stud will be loose; I don't know if I'd personally do that as it'd be the wheel bearings taking the hammer impacts. Similarly, I have heard you can wind the new studs in by using a nut and spacer on the threads, but again you're using the thread to pull the spline of the new stud in and the insertion force will be quite high - afaik both removal and refit are usually done on a press, which requires removing the hubs from the car.
I hope I'm wrong and there is an easier way and I'll let others who have more than a theoretical knowledge chip in. I would personally never use spacers as they also slightly increase the moment exerted on the wheel bearings
Edited by LTP on Wednesday 10th February 16:50
xstaticx said:
Of no help to you but, I think it would be perfectly reasonable to name and shame the previous owner to protect the innocent from such butchery! Is this a 'normal' scenario on a previously 'customised' car?
Shortening the studs is common practice when fitting H&R spacers. The standard wheels don’t have sufficient clearance between the back of the wheel and the end of the original stud. Sportspack wheels actually have a small pocket that the studs just about clear, however, for peace of mind, it’s usual to just nip a couple of mm off the studs.If you don’t, and you tighten up the wheel against the studs you risk having them not seated and cracking the wheels. Wheels are expensive compared to hub bearings, which are effectively a consumable item.
The Vantage looks a lot better with spacers on the rear - 22mm sits really well, as the original stance was too far inset for some reason.
Before
After
It's all taste and LTP is right, I remember when they were more my price range (I was given one free!) Mini spacers resulted in bearings being binned in what seemed milliseconds by the extra moment! But I suppose bearings can be considered a consumable (not too often, eh?)
If I squint I can see the case for having them, but it's not for me, I like the more inset look.
If I squint I can see the case for having them, but it's not for me, I like the more inset look.
The nuts holding the spacers on the rear are spline nuts, you can get a socket for them, but you need to know what type - this one is for "smaller diameter" to presumably there is a "large diameter" too? I also see 7 spline ones, from the picture yours look like 6 spline ? https://www.amazon.co.uk/POINT-SPLINE-TUNER-LUG-Lu...
For the front as someone said you could just get new (correct) studs and have them pushed in to the hub, better to do this in a hydraulic press because you want to get them in nice and straight. Not to mention that getting the old ones out will need some force.
This probably means you need to remove the hub from the car.
You need to know the size and pitch of a standard stud (something like M14-1.5, meaning the stud is 14mm thick and the pitch of the thread is 1.5mm).
The only other thing to note is that you need a shallow spline - if you look at the ebay link for a new hub above you can see the thread on the studs runs right down to the mounting face of the hub, so you might find that a stud like these:
won't work because of the shoulder at the base, you don't want a nut to run down to the end of the thread before being tight on the wheel!
You need to know the thickness of the hub face and the thickness of the disk bell, then look for something with shoulder & spline thats less than that, preferably less than just the hub face.
You can get wheel studs and matching nuts from many places - I know North Hants Tyres keep stock.
The easy route would be to buy a couple of hubs and swap them over,
For the back, hopefully the original studs got left, so once you can undo those nuts and get the spacers off and just bolt the wheel back on (you may need new nuts..). Possible that the numpty cut the studs down so they didn't stick up above the face of the spacer. In which case you'd be in to replacing studs or the hub again.
I don't get the trend for spacers personally, just seems to increase the chance of road rash/stone ships along the body as the tyre chucks up stones that now won't be caught in the wheel arch.
Good luck, I'm sure you'll get the car as AM intended soon enough !
For the front as someone said you could just get new (correct) studs and have them pushed in to the hub, better to do this in a hydraulic press because you want to get them in nice and straight. Not to mention that getting the old ones out will need some force.
This probably means you need to remove the hub from the car.
You need to know the size and pitch of a standard stud (something like M14-1.5, meaning the stud is 14mm thick and the pitch of the thread is 1.5mm).
The only other thing to note is that you need a shallow spline - if you look at the ebay link for a new hub above you can see the thread on the studs runs right down to the mounting face of the hub, so you might find that a stud like these:
won't work because of the shoulder at the base, you don't want a nut to run down to the end of the thread before being tight on the wheel!
You need to know the thickness of the hub face and the thickness of the disk bell, then look for something with shoulder & spline thats less than that, preferably less than just the hub face.
You can get wheel studs and matching nuts from many places - I know North Hants Tyres keep stock.
The easy route would be to buy a couple of hubs and swap them over,
For the back, hopefully the original studs got left, so once you can undo those nuts and get the spacers off and just bolt the wheel back on (you may need new nuts..). Possible that the numpty cut the studs down so they didn't stick up above the face of the spacer. In which case you'd be in to replacing studs or the hub again.
I don't get the trend for spacers personally, just seems to increase the chance of road rash/stone ships along the body as the tyre chucks up stones that now won't be caught in the wheel arch.
Good luck, I'm sure you'll get the car as AM intended soon enough !
JonnyCJ said:
I only have spacers on the rear of mine. The point about road rash along the flank is very true, even with stone guards fitted, so not worth it for minimal aesthetic improvement.
I think the rears look so much better with spacers and mine are easily reversible, so each to their own !
Exactly, and Hoorah for that!I think the rears look so much better with spacers and mine are easily reversible, so each to their own !
Thanks, this is all helpful!
New hubs would be over $2k, so I'd rather not pay that until the bearings are knackered...even if I knacker them by hammering out the studs, at least I'll have tried! I'm not sure how much I trust aftermarket wheel hubs on a car that sees serious speeds and loads. Similarly, I'm willing to give this method of installation a whirl:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QDNZDR8mBhk&t=...
It's looking like I need 10 or 20 new studs. The threads are M14x2.0, but I can't find any data on much else. I can whack one out and measure, but I'd like to have the studs on-hand before I take anything apart to avoid waiting days for parts. I'm cool with aftermarket parts, but after all this nonsense, I want to be sure the studs I put in are of high quality.
I guess the remaining questions are stud specs...I can pull mine and measure, but I'm hoping to have new ones on hand so as not have to wait days to get ahold of them.
New hubs would be over $2k, so I'd rather not pay that until the bearings are knackered...even if I knacker them by hammering out the studs, at least I'll have tried! I'm not sure how much I trust aftermarket wheel hubs on a car that sees serious speeds and loads. Similarly, I'm willing to give this method of installation a whirl:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QDNZDR8mBhk&t=...
It's looking like I need 10 or 20 new studs. The threads are M14x2.0, but I can't find any data on much else. I can whack one out and measure, but I'd like to have the studs on-hand before I take anything apart to avoid waiting days for parts. I'm cool with aftermarket parts, but after all this nonsense, I want to be sure the studs I put in are of high quality.
I guess the remaining questions are stud specs...I can pull mine and measure, but I'm hoping to have new ones on hand so as not have to wait days to get ahold of them.
First line own Borg & Beck. Do some research on them before knocking seven bells out of your hubs. I think you’ll find the cost and hassle of trying to replace the studs can easily be solved with new hub bearing units.
If you want to pay the Aston tax for the hubs feel free to go ahead, but the research you do on buying aftermarket studs might be better directed at aftermarket hubs.
If you want to pay the Aston tax for the hubs feel free to go ahead, but the research you do on buying aftermarket studs might be better directed at aftermarket hubs.
JonnyCJ said:
First line own Borg & Beck. Do some research on them before knocking seven bells out of your hubs. I think you’ll find the cost and hassle of trying to replace the studs can easily be solved with new hub bearing units.
If you want to pay the Aston tax for the hubs feel free to go ahead, but the research you do on buying aftermarket studs might be better directed at aftermarket hubs.
You may be right, but I'm not keen on buying very specific, very important Aston parts from Some Random Shop on eBay. Perhaps it's because I'm in the States, but this is the first time I've ever heard of First Line Ltd or Borg & Beck.If you want to pay the Aston tax for the hubs feel free to go ahead, but the research you do on buying aftermarket studs might be better directed at aftermarket hubs.
I guess I'll sniff around here a bit more...
Tremelune said:
but this is the first time I've ever heard of First Line Ltd or Borg & Beck.
I guess I'll sniff around here a bit more...
Borg and Beck have been around for many decades - I even remember them being an admired supplier of cutches when I was knee high to a grasshopper (many decades....), and thought they were indeed American. Personally I would put a clutch in a much higher level of engineering to a bearing pressed into in a hub. As above, I do understand where people want the real thing, I suppose it's just a different balance point of peace of mind over cost.I guess I'll sniff around here a bit more...
It's just reminded me, I had several tries to replace the front discs on my C55 with Brembo, Pagid discs and all developed judder after a thousand miles - it seemed genuine Mercedes discs were the only ones that works, and lo, it was so! They're still on the car and no judder... weird, and contradicting myself of course, but it's horses for courses in my book.
Tremelune said:
Thanks, this is all helpful!
New hubs would be over $2k, so I'd rather not pay that until the bearings are knackered...even if I knacker them by hammering out the studs, at least I'll have tried! I'm not sure how much I trust aftermarket wheel hubs on a car that sees serious speeds and loads. Similarly, I'm willing to give this method of installation a whirl:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QDNZDR8mBhk&t=...
It's looking like I need 10 or 20 new studs. The threads are M14x2.0, but I can't find any data on much else. I can whack one out and measure, but I'd like to have the studs on-hand before I take anything apart to avoid waiting days for parts. I'm cool with aftermarket parts, but after all this nonsense, I want to be sure the studs I put in are of high quality.
I guess the remaining questions are stud specs...I can pull mine and measure, but I'm hoping to have new ones on hand so as not have to wait days to get ahold of them.
Is M14x2.0 whats on there now or what AM fit from factory ? seems a rare size, M14x1.5 much more common.New hubs would be over $2k, so I'd rather not pay that until the bearings are knackered...even if I knacker them by hammering out the studs, at least I'll have tried! I'm not sure how much I trust aftermarket wheel hubs on a car that sees serious speeds and loads. Similarly, I'm willing to give this method of installation a whirl:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QDNZDR8mBhk&t=...
It's looking like I need 10 or 20 new studs. The threads are M14x2.0, but I can't find any data on much else. I can whack one out and measure, but I'd like to have the studs on-hand before I take anything apart to avoid waiting days for parts. I'm cool with aftermarket parts, but after all this nonsense, I want to be sure the studs I put in are of high quality.
I guess the remaining questions are stud specs...I can pull mine and measure, but I'm hoping to have new ones on hand so as not have to wait days to get ahold of them.
Can you pop a brake disc off and measure the thickness of the hub face that the studs go through, that'll tell you how deep the shoulder with the splines on the stud needs to be. Measure how thick the bell of the disc is too.
Maybe another owner can measure the length of the stud from the brake disc mounting face, leaving you to add up the three, thats your stud length and you'll know the shoulder length. You can then go hunting for studs.
Borg and Beck used to supply 90% of OE clutches in the UK ( part of the AP group). That business was broken up in the 1980's, and in fact the factory has just been demolished. The name only has been resurrected as part of a big motor factor which also trades as First Line. There is only the most tenuous connection to the old business, but the products seem to be of good quality, and the range much more than clutches. Lockheed brakes (also 100% British) went another way from AP. The quality today may be ok, but can't be compared to the old businesses.
john ryan said:
Borg and Beck used to supply 90% of OE clutches in the UK ( part of the AP group). That business was broken up in the 1980's, and in fact the factory has just been demolished. The name only has been resurrected as part of a big motor factor which also trades as First Line. There is only the most tenuous connection to the old business, but the products seem to be of good quality, and the range much more than clutches. Lockheed brakes (also 100% British) went another way from AP. The quality today may be ok, but can't be compared to the old businesses.
Interesting - I did not know that. I did see their range is bigger now.^^^^ 
problem is you may have to remove the hub in order to get old out and new in. (they are a Mk6 Transit stud but with specific different lengths and length of splines). Front 11mmm spacers aren't a problem as the nuts supplied have longer threads than standard so cover the 11mm depth. I looked into it, had delivered, decided against and sold on.
problem is you may have to remove the hub in order to get old out and new in. (they are a Mk6 Transit stud but with specific different lengths and length of splines). Front 11mmm spacers aren't a problem as the nuts supplied have longer threads than standard so cover the 11mm depth. I looked into it, had delivered, decided against and sold on.Gassing Station | Aston Martin | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff