2003 DB7 Vantage with PATS problem
Discussion
Good morning all, my car is suffering from a pesty PATS fault code "16" which is preventing the engine from starting. This began after sitting at mechanic shop for a few weeks with likely a bad battery. I had to tow it home. I have replaced the battery since, but engine still will not start with the red light indicating code 16. As per service manual, this may be an issue with communication between the PATS SCP and the PCM (power control module)..
I have checked all fuseboxes and have a new battery. Any suggestions as to where to start would be highly appreciated.
I have checked all fuseboxes and have a new battery. Any suggestions as to where to start would be highly appreciated.
Gavan said:
Anyone willing to share an old username and password?
Afraid not - AMOC might take a dim view. Here's some quotes from various threads looking at "DB7" and "PATS 16 code", so in no particular order (each quote in it's own block of text):Quotes start
When I had the 16 PATs code, the solution was to replace the main relay :
I replaced the main relay, charged the battery again, played with the fuel pump relays and now the car is running fine.
No more PATS 16 code, starts right up and idles great.
I wonder how long that relay was bad.
According to the manual, fault code 16 is an SCP bus error, it basically means the PATS controller isn't talking to the powertrain control modules (engine ECUs). It could be a wiring fault. The SCP bus consists of blue and grey wires twisted together. The bus connects the PCMs, the PATS controller, he traction control module and the instrument cluster. With everything unplugged from the bus, neither wire should be connected to chassis or to the battery. PATS module pin 4 is the blue wire and pin 5 the grey one.On the PCMs it is pin 15 for blue and pin 16 for the grey wires. As I understand it, the keys go with the PATs unit not the PCMs. The PATs unit tells the PCMs whether they are permitted to start the car or not.
I had exactly the same problem 2 years ago, and had absolutely no idea why the PATS system was indicating a failure. It was an intermittent issue but it did strand me more than once before it became a solid fail. After some research I found out that the code 16 indicated a faulty link between the PATS module and the ECU. But that is all I could find out, and I had absolutely no clue how to trace or fix the problem. So in desperation, I called Chiltern Aston and talked to Stuart Braham. Luckily for me, he had seen this problem once before and he said that it took them a month to figure it out. He suggested that I change the Main Relay. And it worked! Incidentally, if the main relay fails in the closed position while the engine is running, the engine will continue to run even after shutting down the ignition and removing the key. This was another symptom that I had had once previously, but it did not reoccur so I just put it down to one of those DB7 gremlins. Anyway, it was good to be able to help someone with exactly the same problem.
Thanks to Richard great advice changed main relay car is running like ever.
On an older forum, it appears the PATS 16 is a main relay on the Vantage, "there are 3 what could be called main relays, 1 in each of the fuseboxes , relay 7 in each case"
In case anyone else gets the code 16 on the PATS, the relay that I changed (12V 30A 0332014112 Bosch) was on the passenger side dash (RHD) as in the image below (note from LTP - sadly there was no longer an image for me to copy, just a "broken link" symbol
On my 96 i6 the main relay is in the panel under the dash on the drivers side and is easily recognised as it is silver with a red diagonal stripe. Some time ago, and it is well documented in the forum I had a similar non starting problem with no fuel and no spark, which like yourself I thought was an immobiliser fault, and it was finally traced to the twin relays operating the twin fuel pumps.
Is this only applicable to the I6,is it the same on the V12?
No the V12 is very different, there are 3 what could be called main relays, 1 in each of the fuseboxes , relay 7 in each case.
end of quotes - LTP again
So, looks like the "main relay" (whatever that is) may be worth a look as it seems to be a consistent comment. If it works them maybe join AMOC? if any AMOC grown-ups are reading, regard this as a recruitment activity
Hope this helps.
LTP said:
Not any more. Changed last year with the new forum software. Not all AMOC members agreed, but it is regarded as there as a benefit to members rather than a free site like PH
I’ve just logged in and haven’t been an AMOC member for 8 years. Is it only new members who have to pay? 4Q said:
I’ve just logged in and haven’t been an AMOC member for 8 years. Is it only new members who have to pay?
No idea. I'm a member so I can log in - I'm just reporting what I've read, unless there's been a change of heart. Try accessing the forum without logging in, as if you were not a member. Maybe they haven't purged old members?
Below from a "Forum Access" post
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New members that have just joined the AMOC will have to request access. Send an Email to membershipadmin@amoc.org with 'New forum user' in the subject. Let us know if you are an AMOC member you will receive an invitation to join by email and can choose your password
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LTP said:
Gavan said:
Anyone willing to share an old username and password?
Afraid not - AMOC might take a dim view. Here's some quotes from various threads looking at "DB7" and "PATS 16 code", so in no particular order (each quote in it's own block of text):Quotes start
When I had the 16 PATs code, the solution was to replace the main relay :
I replaced the main relay, charged the battery again, played with the fuel pump relays and now the car is running fine.
No more PATS 16 code, starts right up and idles great.
I wonder how long that relay was bad.
According to the manual, fault code 16 is an SCP bus error, it basically means the PATS controller isn't talking to the powertrain control modules (engine ECUs). It could be a wiring fault. The SCP bus consists of blue and grey wires twisted together. The bus connects the PCMs, the PATS controller, he traction control module and the instrument cluster. With everything unplugged from the bus, neither wire should be connected to chassis or to the battery. PATS module pin 4 is the blue wire and pin 5 the grey one.On the PCMs it is pin 15 for blue and pin 16 for the grey wires. As I understand it, the keys go with the PATs unit not the PCMs. The PATs unit tells the PCMs whether they are permitted to start the car or not.
I had exactly the same problem 2 years ago, and had absolutely no idea why the PATS system was indicating a failure. It was an intermittent issue but it did strand me more than once before it became a solid fail. After some research I found out that the code 16 indicated a faulty link between the PATS module and the ECU. But that is all I could find out, and I had absolutely no clue how to trace or fix the problem. So in desperation, I called Chiltern Aston and talked to Stuart Braham. Luckily for me, he had seen this problem once before and he said that it took them a month to figure it out. He suggested that I change the Main Relay. And it worked! Incidentally, if the main relay fails in the closed position while the engine is running, the engine will continue to run even after shutting down the ignition and removing the key. This was another symptom that I had had once previously, but it did not reoccur so I just put it down to one of those DB7 gremlins. Anyway, it was good to be able to help someone with exactly the same problem.
Thanks to Richard great advice changed main relay car is running like ever.
On an older forum, it appears the PATS 16 is a main relay on the Vantage, "there are 3 what could be called main relays, 1 in each of the fuseboxes , relay 7 in each case"
In case anyone else gets the code 16 on the PATS, the relay that I changed (12V 30A 0332014112 Bosch) was on the passenger side dash (RHD) as in the image below (note from LTP - sadly there was no longer an image for me to copy, just a "broken link" symbol
On my 96 i6 the main relay is in the panel under the dash on the drivers side and is easily recognised as it is silver with a red diagonal stripe. Some time ago, and it is well documented in the forum I had a similar non starting problem with no fuel and no spark, which like yourself I thought was an immobiliser fault, and it was finally traced to the twin relays operating the twin fuel pumps.
Is this only applicable to the I6,is it the same on the V12?
No the V12 is very different, there are 3 what could be called main relays, 1 in each of the fuseboxes , relay 7 in each case.
end of quotes - LTP again
So, looks like the "main relay" (whatever that is) may be worth a look as it seems to be a consistent comment. If it works them maybe join AMOC? if any AMOC grown-ups are reading, regard this as a recruitment activity
Hope this helps.
Gavan, you’re welcome. I just hope I didn’t miss something that would have given you a fix. The only other thread of note talked about swapping RFID chips in keys to match with the immobiliser after an engine bay harness swap, which I didn’t think would be applicable. Stupid question - I suppose the car is reading your keys OK?
LTP said:
Gavan, you’re welcome. I just hope I didn’t miss something that would have given you a fix. The only other thread of note talked about swapping RFID chips in keys to match with the immobiliser after an engine bay harness swap, which I didn’t think would be applicable. Stupid question - I suppose the car is reading your keys OK?
Yes indeed. Most point me in that direction since PATS is involved, but the code is specific to the communication issue between the PCM and SCP. I think your posts address my issue very specifically. Unless I'm missing something else about the relays or the "main relay", the only other possibility seems to be an actual wiring issue or faulty connections. The key is recognized and even ignites the engine before the immobilizer quickly does its job and turns it off. Gassing Station | Aston Martin | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff