V8 Vantage - Suspension Replacement - Bilsteins?
Discussion
Hi Everyone
Please bear with me, I have searched and read pretty much every thread on this subject that I can find. However I have not found a definitive answer, hence creating a new thread!
My vantage is a 2006 and is therefore on the multimatic / dynamics dampters, not the later bilsteins. Milage is now just north of 70k so I would like to understand what options I have in terms of replacement as I am sure my current ride is far from it's best. From what I have read so far, the options seem to be as follows:
1) Replace with OEM dymanics dampers
Price for all 4 seems to be c. £2.4k but they are not very good dampers and therefore not an attractive option, even though I might be able to re-use the existing springs
2) Replace with the later Bilstein dampers (either normal or sports pack)
This seems to be a good option as the later bilstein damper is by all accounts a much better damper. I cannot however for the life of me find the correct part numbers or a cost for this option, but I understand these dampers are plug and play in terms of fitment to the older cars
3) Go aftermarket with a kit like Nitron
Parts for all 4 seems to be c. £2.8k, these also seem to be good with a few people speaking very highly of them, but not many people have gone for this option that I can see. Bamford Rose also advise that they are not weather proof and may therefore require regular re-builds although I am not sure how true this is. They also introduce the issue of (I assume) not being able to use stock geo settings, so you would need someone who really knows what they are doing to set up the geo correctly
4) Bamford Rose electrically adjustable suspension
This seems to be the "uncomprimising" option and best option with the dampers being based on the bilsten b16 I believe. However this option is expensive at c. £7k (all in, not just the parts) so is sadly out of the question for me personally
So, my main quetion and the reason for this thread specifically - does anyone know the part numbers for the later bilstein damper / able to give a rough cost for what these would cost?
Any other thoughts or comments welcome, including any other options if I have missed them!
Thanks in advance
Please bear with me, I have searched and read pretty much every thread on this subject that I can find. However I have not found a definitive answer, hence creating a new thread!
My vantage is a 2006 and is therefore on the multimatic / dynamics dampters, not the later bilsteins. Milage is now just north of 70k so I would like to understand what options I have in terms of replacement as I am sure my current ride is far from it's best. From what I have read so far, the options seem to be as follows:
1) Replace with OEM dymanics dampers
Price for all 4 seems to be c. £2.4k but they are not very good dampers and therefore not an attractive option, even though I might be able to re-use the existing springs
2) Replace with the later Bilstein dampers (either normal or sports pack)
This seems to be a good option as the later bilstein damper is by all accounts a much better damper. I cannot however for the life of me find the correct part numbers or a cost for this option, but I understand these dampers are plug and play in terms of fitment to the older cars
3) Go aftermarket with a kit like Nitron
Parts for all 4 seems to be c. £2.8k, these also seem to be good with a few people speaking very highly of them, but not many people have gone for this option that I can see. Bamford Rose also advise that they are not weather proof and may therefore require regular re-builds although I am not sure how true this is. They also introduce the issue of (I assume) not being able to use stock geo settings, so you would need someone who really knows what they are doing to set up the geo correctly
4) Bamford Rose electrically adjustable suspension
This seems to be the "uncomprimising" option and best option with the dampers being based on the bilsten b16 I believe. However this option is expensive at c. £7k (all in, not just the parts) so is sadly out of the question for me personally
So, my main quetion and the reason for this thread specifically - does anyone know the part numbers for the later bilstein damper / able to give a rough cost for what these would cost?
Any other thoughts or comments welcome, including any other options if I have missed them!
Thanks in advance
Edited by SE24 on Monday 12th April 17:53
cornershop said:
Check DAE site for their latest suspension offering
Road focussed Nitrons, with weather sealing etc
Cornershop, thanksRoad focussed Nitrons, with weather sealing etc
I have just spoken to James at DAE and there are two Vantage options. One for racing (and not suitable for the road) and a new road damper which uses the OEM springs, top mounts and weather covers:
https://www.davidapplebyengineering.com/Shop/Produ...
It does seem that this was developed as the answer to trying to replace with multi-matic / bilsten. Whilst it might make the car harder to move on when it comes time to sell, I must say I am tempted as the total cost is roughly £3k all in
Edited by SE24 on Monday 12th April 17:40
I've been having back and fourth emails between me and James Appleby at DAE. They have just launched a road going version of the R1 Nitron shocks and they are protected by utilising the rubber covers you have on your Dynamic shocks from what I've been told.
I'm intrigued by them over the Bilstein alternative but apart from these and the BR fully adjustable ones there is also another alternative being offered by Vantage Engineering whereby they take your Dynamic shocks and rebuild them to your liking 'apparently'!!
https://www.vantage-engineering.co.uk/services
Just found the write up by Bob Hayward ..... copy paste below, link to the thread here: https://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&...
Aston Martin DB9
Suspension Improvements-Vantage Engineering
Towards the latter part of 2016 I had the opportunity to purchase a 2005 DB9 coupe.
As this was a long-held aspiration, I jumped at the chance. The car was in pristine condition, with no modifications, Blue Sapphire with Sandstorm interior and 32k miles on the clock.
I was in total awe of the car, revelling in its performance, comfort, looks and noise.
As time has passed, with the clock now showing 40k miles, I have become aware of some of the less desirable elements of the driving experience, the ‘crunchy’ suspension, the somewhat vague feeling that the rear end was not always where I thought that it should be, the dip of the nose under firm braking and the fight with the turn-in on higher speed corners.
I had done much reading of the plethora of forums that exist that confirmed that my car was not in any way out of the ordinary, so I suppose that I had concluded that I was going to have to put up with these minor imperfections. The only modifications that I have made during my ownership were the fitting of a new set of lighter weight rims (Carbon Black edition) accompanied by titanium wheel nuts and Michelin tyres. I should state at this point that I did not want a track car, nor even do I want to hurl it around pot-holed roads; I would like a comfortable, fast road car.
The real turning point in this whole process occurred when I drove a slightly younger version of the same car, but one that benefitted from having the Sportspack modifications. The major difference that I immediately noticed was that the suspension was more supple and didn’t exhibit any of the rather rigid characteristics that my car did, despite having higher spring rates.
Further reference to forum material confirmed that much of the overall problem was most probably due to the OEM shock absorbers, the Multimatics Dynamics dampers. I therefore set about identifying a suitable brand of dampers to replace these items, knowing that mine were in working order, with no evident leaks, anecdotally a common problem.
I contacted several suppliers and organisations each one of which possesses a reputation for remedying the particular characteristics that exist with un-modified, standard vehicles, which, in my view, take the shine off a beautiful car. I was fairly disappointed with the response that I received from several of them, which simply immediately offered their off-the-shelf solution, without even asking what was my requirement.
I eventually found an advertisement for Vantage Engineering bespoke shock absorbers that offered a damper that could provide various ‘stiffness’ responses as well as height adjustment, characteristics that were admittedly on offer from other suppliers.
I contacted Vantage Engineering and after voicing my problem was put through to Terry Couzens, the owner. Vantage Engineering is based near Horsham in West Sussex and has a well-equipped workshop that carries out maintenance and modifications to solely Aston Martin cars, both recent and vintage. The big difference was that Terry listened to my description of the problem and then suggested what nobody else had, that I bring the car to him and he would drive it to ascertain any issues and then recommend solutions!
This I duly did; Terry was broadly in agreement with my concerns and recommended that he fitted a set of Vantage Engineering’s own brand of dampers, using the existing road springs. Terry agreed to set the damper responses and heights that his test driving and ‘feel’ identified, followed up with a complete geometry check and re-set.
After the initial work had been completed, I was invited to Vantage Engineering’s workshops in order to test drive the set-up that had been implemented.
In a nutshell, I was amazed at the difference! I wouldn’t go as far as say that a complete transformation had been effected; it was still the same basic car, with the same springs, rims and tyres, but suffice to say that I was absolutely delighted with the result! Terry had lowered the front of the car by approximately 15mm and the rear by 10mm. The damper response had been adjusted to settings that Terry considered appropriate. Both ride height and damper response settings were well within the range offered by the bespoke shock absorber units. The geometry has been adjusted to remain within overall factory recommendations with the rear wheels having been toed in slightly, whilst caster has been removed from the front wheels. The suspension is now far more accommodating and compliant, with no jolts or crashing, with more travel in the suspension afforded by the new set up. There is considerably less dip on hard braking and the rear of the car feels much more secure. There is no longer a fight with the turn in. The whole car has become more comfortable, combining suppleness with control. I am over the moon with the result and now consider that I own the car that I really bought. Huge smile on face!
The real message of this post is that it is clear to me that it pays to have work of this nature carried out by a properly qualified motor engineer who understands the complexities of suspension and geometry and can ‘tune’ the component parts to provide the optimum solution. I consider that I was most fortunate to have found Vantage Engineering and asking them to carry out this work and did not rely on some other organisations that would have merely provided their stock response without driving the car and listening to my requirements.
Well done Vantage Engineering, I wish you every success in the future and rest assured I will strongly recommend your services to others.
I'm intrigued by them over the Bilstein alternative but apart from these and the BR fully adjustable ones there is also another alternative being offered by Vantage Engineering whereby they take your Dynamic shocks and rebuild them to your liking 'apparently'!!
https://www.vantage-engineering.co.uk/services
Just found the write up by Bob Hayward ..... copy paste below, link to the thread here: https://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&...
Aston Martin DB9
Suspension Improvements-Vantage Engineering
Towards the latter part of 2016 I had the opportunity to purchase a 2005 DB9 coupe.
As this was a long-held aspiration, I jumped at the chance. The car was in pristine condition, with no modifications, Blue Sapphire with Sandstorm interior and 32k miles on the clock.
I was in total awe of the car, revelling in its performance, comfort, looks and noise.
As time has passed, with the clock now showing 40k miles, I have become aware of some of the less desirable elements of the driving experience, the ‘crunchy’ suspension, the somewhat vague feeling that the rear end was not always where I thought that it should be, the dip of the nose under firm braking and the fight with the turn-in on higher speed corners.
I had done much reading of the plethora of forums that exist that confirmed that my car was not in any way out of the ordinary, so I suppose that I had concluded that I was going to have to put up with these minor imperfections. The only modifications that I have made during my ownership were the fitting of a new set of lighter weight rims (Carbon Black edition) accompanied by titanium wheel nuts and Michelin tyres. I should state at this point that I did not want a track car, nor even do I want to hurl it around pot-holed roads; I would like a comfortable, fast road car.
The real turning point in this whole process occurred when I drove a slightly younger version of the same car, but one that benefitted from having the Sportspack modifications. The major difference that I immediately noticed was that the suspension was more supple and didn’t exhibit any of the rather rigid characteristics that my car did, despite having higher spring rates.
Further reference to forum material confirmed that much of the overall problem was most probably due to the OEM shock absorbers, the Multimatics Dynamics dampers. I therefore set about identifying a suitable brand of dampers to replace these items, knowing that mine were in working order, with no evident leaks, anecdotally a common problem.
I contacted several suppliers and organisations each one of which possesses a reputation for remedying the particular characteristics that exist with un-modified, standard vehicles, which, in my view, take the shine off a beautiful car. I was fairly disappointed with the response that I received from several of them, which simply immediately offered their off-the-shelf solution, without even asking what was my requirement.
I eventually found an advertisement for Vantage Engineering bespoke shock absorbers that offered a damper that could provide various ‘stiffness’ responses as well as height adjustment, characteristics that were admittedly on offer from other suppliers.
I contacted Vantage Engineering and after voicing my problem was put through to Terry Couzens, the owner. Vantage Engineering is based near Horsham in West Sussex and has a well-equipped workshop that carries out maintenance and modifications to solely Aston Martin cars, both recent and vintage. The big difference was that Terry listened to my description of the problem and then suggested what nobody else had, that I bring the car to him and he would drive it to ascertain any issues and then recommend solutions!
This I duly did; Terry was broadly in agreement with my concerns and recommended that he fitted a set of Vantage Engineering’s own brand of dampers, using the existing road springs. Terry agreed to set the damper responses and heights that his test driving and ‘feel’ identified, followed up with a complete geometry check and re-set.
After the initial work had been completed, I was invited to Vantage Engineering’s workshops in order to test drive the set-up that had been implemented.
In a nutshell, I was amazed at the difference! I wouldn’t go as far as say that a complete transformation had been effected; it was still the same basic car, with the same springs, rims and tyres, but suffice to say that I was absolutely delighted with the result! Terry had lowered the front of the car by approximately 15mm and the rear by 10mm. The damper response had been adjusted to settings that Terry considered appropriate. Both ride height and damper response settings were well within the range offered by the bespoke shock absorber units. The geometry has been adjusted to remain within overall factory recommendations with the rear wheels having been toed in slightly, whilst caster has been removed from the front wheels. The suspension is now far more accommodating and compliant, with no jolts or crashing, with more travel in the suspension afforded by the new set up. There is considerably less dip on hard braking and the rear of the car feels much more secure. There is no longer a fight with the turn in. The whole car has become more comfortable, combining suppleness with control. I am over the moon with the result and now consider that I own the car that I really bought. Huge smile on face!
The real message of this post is that it is clear to me that it pays to have work of this nature carried out by a properly qualified motor engineer who understands the complexities of suspension and geometry and can ‘tune’ the component parts to provide the optimum solution. I consider that I was most fortunate to have found Vantage Engineering and asking them to carry out this work and did not rely on some other organisations that would have merely provided their stock response without driving the car and listening to my requirements.
Well done Vantage Engineering, I wish you every success in the future and rest assured I will strongly recommend your services to others.
Edited by BiggaJ on Monday 12th April 17:27
Edited by BiggaJ on Monday 12th April 17:28
SE24 said:
I cannot however for the life of me find the correct part numbers or a cost for this option, but I understand these dampers are plug and play in terms of fitment to the older cars
Hi SE24Not trying to be sarcastic, but you could just go to your local AM Dealer and ask their parts department what the part number is for the later Bilsteins. I'd expect multiple part numbers (Sport Pack/S and Comfort/Standard, for both Roadster and Coupe, then fronts and rears) but there could be others and they may have tweaked the dampers (and hence the part numbers) when they did any major suspension revisions. So you'd need to know which versions you want.
Scuderia Parts
https://www.scuderiacarparts.com/en-gb/part-finder...
gives six part numbers for the Coupe rear damper assy 09MY on - Bilstein; these seems to be spring/damper units complete and hovering a mouse over the link displays what MY or variant they are for
Similarly
https://www.scuderiacarparts.com/en-gb/part-finder...
gives 6 part numbers for the fronts Coupe 09MY on - Bilstein, again they appear to be spring/damper units and hovering gives the variant
Also, I was clicking through threads with new content and I came across this page
https://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&...
and saw the top post. Same MY as yours. Might be worth PM'ing Veg and see if he'll tell you what parts he used
https://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&...
and saw the top post. Same MY as yours. Might be worth PM'ing Veg and see if he'll tell you what parts he used
errrrrmmmm
I have the BR adjustable - it's amazing I cannot exaggerate the improvement!!
However, I think you're rather off on the costs?
"For the ultimate in dynamic upgrades, we at Bamford Rose are proud to offer our adaptive damping package.
Utilising the B16 Bilstein adaptive dampers, fitted into the final VH era Aston Martins, and bespoke springs for each model (the OEM springs are discarded as part of this uncompromising upgrade). This pinnacle upgrade offers a transformational difference in the Vantage’s handling and ride.
Three initial model-specific dynamic damper settings – comfort, sport and track are calibrated by Bamford Rose. The settings can be selected by a discreet button in the vehicle or via a smartphone application. With the dampers in adaptive mode, the car will stiffen up in the corners when needed then revert to comfort in mIlliseconds! The comfort mode is perfect for a Motorway cruise or around town, sport mode for a spirited back road blast and track for days at the circuit.
Alternatively, for the owner who wants everything, all of the suspension settings can be completely programmable via smartphone to create the handling characteristics you desire.
This upgrade is suitable for all Vantages and is available for £5750 (excluding VAT).."
https://bamfordrose.com/road-car-upgrades/introduc...
I have the BR adjustable - it's amazing I cannot exaggerate the improvement!!
However, I think you're rather off on the costs?
"For the ultimate in dynamic upgrades, we at Bamford Rose are proud to offer our adaptive damping package.
Utilising the B16 Bilstein adaptive dampers, fitted into the final VH era Aston Martins, and bespoke springs for each model (the OEM springs are discarded as part of this uncompromising upgrade). This pinnacle upgrade offers a transformational difference in the Vantage’s handling and ride.
Three initial model-specific dynamic damper settings – comfort, sport and track are calibrated by Bamford Rose. The settings can be selected by a discreet button in the vehicle or via a smartphone application. With the dampers in adaptive mode, the car will stiffen up in the corners when needed then revert to comfort in mIlliseconds! The comfort mode is perfect for a Motorway cruise or around town, sport mode for a spirited back road blast and track for days at the circuit.
Alternatively, for the owner who wants everything, all of the suspension settings can be completely programmable via smartphone to create the handling characteristics you desire.
This upgrade is suitable for all Vantages and is available for £5750 (excluding VAT).."
https://bamfordrose.com/road-car-upgrades/introduc...
Thanks for all the replies so far - good to see some new information here that I did not find in the other threads
Squaremeal, thanks for spotting the error on the BR solution cost, I have edited in the original post - I think it would still be more than double the other alteratives however which clearly would make it a very considered purchase
Squaremeal, thanks for spotting the error on the BR solution cost, I have edited in the original post - I think it would still be more than double the other alteratives however which clearly would make it a very considered purchase
Very good topic, I'm interested in this, even though my DB9 has no issues with the multimatics shocks I do want a better driving experience like younger DB9's so I'm looking at updating all of them in the next few years.
My first choice would be the bilsteins as I've heard they are better for an enjoyable drive, but they are expensive.
The Nitro ones look very good, and good price, and you can still use the original springs, but are they as good as the standard bilstein shocks?? It looks like they can be adjusted, maybe they can be adjusted to be similar to the bilstiens.
Do you need to replace the original springs with the standard bilstein shocks (non adjustable) as it's unclear??
My first choice would be the bilsteins as I've heard they are better for an enjoyable drive, but they are expensive.
The Nitro ones look very good, and good price, and you can still use the original springs, but are they as good as the standard bilstein shocks?? It looks like they can be adjusted, maybe they can be adjusted to be similar to the bilstiens.
Do you need to replace the original springs with the standard bilstein shocks (non adjustable) as it's unclear??
Edited by paulrog1 on Monday 12th April 19:26
As you can read elsewhere I have just finished fitting N420 Bilsteins and springs to my 06 V8V. It has transformed the ride.
I bought them used off a lovely bloke who swopped them for Nitrons at around 4k miles. I was waiting for the 'road" Nitrons as I've had them on all my TVRs and had a set made up for an Audi RS2. They are very good. When I saw the Bilsteins come up on ebay they were a bargain so thought why not.
I haven't changed roll bars (one thing at a time), nor had the geo done yet, I'm still on Bridgestones and the difference is amazing. Goodness knows what alignment and Michelin will do...
In summary get rid of the Dynamics and get Nitrons or Billies!
I bought them used off a lovely bloke who swopped them for Nitrons at around 4k miles. I was waiting for the 'road" Nitrons as I've had them on all my TVRs and had a set made up for an Audi RS2. They are very good. When I saw the Bilsteins come up on ebay they were a bargain so thought why not.
I haven't changed roll bars (one thing at a time), nor had the geo done yet, I'm still on Bridgestones and the difference is amazing. Goodness knows what alignment and Michelin will do...
In summary get rid of the Dynamics and get Nitrons or Billies!
Veg said:
As you can read elsewhere I have just finished fitting N420 Bilsteins and springs to my 06 V8V. It has transformed the ride.
I bought them used off a lovely bloke who swopped them for Nitrons at around 4k miles. I was waiting for the 'road" Nitrons as I've had them on all my TVRs and had a set made up for an Audi RS2. They are very good. When I saw the Bilsteins come up on ebay they were a bargain so thought why not.
I haven't changed roll bars (one thing at a time), nor had the geo done yet, I'm still on Bridgestones and the difference is amazing. Goodness knows what alignment and Michelin will do...
In summary get rid of the Dynamics and get Nitrons or Billies!
This is interesting to me. I was aware the TVR guys used Nitron a lot but never having had a TVR I didn't know if they were a road system or race derived. In my talks with DAE they admitted late last year the R1 sets they were selling were a track biased system without weather protection and therefore, didn't recommend them for road use, stating they would not last as well as the stock suspension (Dynamic in my case) however, they were in final trials of a road Nitron set up based around the R1's but utilising the protection that should be taken off my cars Dynamics and retrofitted to the R1's. I bought them used off a lovely bloke who swopped them for Nitrons at around 4k miles. I was waiting for the 'road" Nitrons as I've had them on all my TVRs and had a set made up for an Audi RS2. They are very good. When I saw the Bilsteins come up on ebay they were a bargain so thought why not.
I haven't changed roll bars (one thing at a time), nor had the geo done yet, I'm still on Bridgestones and the difference is amazing. Goodness knows what alignment and Michelin will do...
In summary get rid of the Dynamics and get Nitrons or Billies!
I have an offer of £1800 + VAT for the shocks and £695 + Vat for fitting and alignment work to be done.
Moving on and talking to Adrian at AHM, he races cars (Alfa 33 around 400hp) and uses Ohlins on his car. He claims the Bilstein will still be the best, nothing wrong with Nitron or most other makes but in his opinion the Bilstein have a proven track record and I guess he doesn't want customers coming back and complaining if things go wrong with the Nitron.
Having said all this I still like the idea of the Nitron, the only possible fly in the ointment for me is them not having a proven track record yet with these shocks on many Astons over many years .... I know they are a reputable company and all that, its just being one of the first and getting stuck with them if Nitron decide they haven't been fitted correctly etc.
If the Vantage Engineering solution is circa £4k then it isn't that big a leap going for the BR fully adjustable solution.
So my question is to those that have used and abused the Nitron products, how do they hold up to British roads and weather conditions? any problems, concerns, is Nitron good with customer service etc?
Edited by BiggaJ on Tuesday 13th April 11:20
Most of the Nitron's on my TVRs are none weather protected. My TVRs hardly saw any rain so that wasnt an issue.They do require rebuilds but that is if you are putting them through their paces regularly and heating them up during competition (where the oil degrades and valves wear). On the road use with occasional spiirted driving won't hurt them.
The Bilisteins will need the same if I track the car every week (no chance of that if at all) and the added weather protection is just a minor bonus as the Aston hardly ever sees the rain. That said I have just been from Cheltenham to Bolton in the rain, and on the motorway, where it handled beautifully....
For the price quoted get the Nitrons and if you don't like them someone wil have them secondhand. For reference my 4,000 mile N420 Billies were around £1k and I fitted them myself as it is a fairly easy process
The Bilisteins will need the same if I track the car every week (no chance of that if at all) and the added weather protection is just a minor bonus as the Aston hardly ever sees the rain. That said I have just been from Cheltenham to Bolton in the rain, and on the motorway, where it handled beautifully....
For the price quoted get the Nitrons and if you don't like them someone wil have them secondhand. For reference my 4,000 mile N420 Billies were around £1k and I fitted them myself as it is a fairly easy process
Edited by Veg on Tuesday 13th April 14:13
Edited by Veg on Tuesday 13th April 22:56
Veg said:
As you can read elsewhere I have just finished fitting N420 Bilsteins and springs to my 06 V8V. It has transformed the ride.
I bought them used off a lovely bloke who swopped them for Nitrons at around 4k miles. I was waiting for the 'road" Nitrons as I've had them on all my TVRs and had a set made up for an Audi RS2. They are very good. When I saw the Bilsteins come up on ebay they were a bargain so thought why not.
I haven't changed roll bars (one thing at a time), nor had the geo done yet, I'm still on Bridgestones and the difference is amazing. Goodness knows what alignment and Michelin will do...
In summary get rid of the Dynamics and get Nitrons or Billies!
Great to read!I bought them used off a lovely bloke who swopped them for Nitrons at around 4k miles. I was waiting for the 'road" Nitrons as I've had them on all my TVRs and had a set made up for an Audi RS2. They are very good. When I saw the Bilsteins come up on ebay they were a bargain so thought why not.
I haven't changed roll bars (one thing at a time), nor had the geo done yet, I'm still on Bridgestones and the difference is amazing. Goodness knows what alignment and Michelin will do...
In summary get rid of the Dynamics and get Nitrons or Billies!
Just got a set of Billies and having fitted in a week, with alignment so fingers crossed that’s all that’s needed… looking forward to the upgrade as I’ve always found the V8V 4.3 lacking in that agility department.
I got DAE to fit Nitrons to my Vantage S in 2016. It was worst thing I ever did.
Nitrons are designed for the track. Even if you dont mind having to remove them and rebuild them every 6 months, or fit covers and boots to protect the rods from stone chip damage they are still no good for the road - IF you cant get used to the clunks, bangs and clangs inherent to solid metal mountings with no bushing.
I took my car to Bamford Rose after 3 years of trying different springs and settings, return visits to DAE, multiple visits to different 'specialists' and about 100 emails to Nitron themselves, who basically to me to go away. I was ready to punt it, I'd had enough.
In 5 minutes Mike said 'this is racing suspension, its why the car knocks and clonks like an old tractor'. He recommended Bilstein switchable. I told him to fit, he did, and the car was transformed. Perfect handling, better than the Nitron.
While the hard position on the Bilstein is extreme, track use only, the standard set up, I believe a tad harder than the standard sportpack will be all the suspension you will ever need.
Nitrons are designed for the track. Even if you dont mind having to remove them and rebuild them every 6 months, or fit covers and boots to protect the rods from stone chip damage they are still no good for the road - IF you cant get used to the clunks, bangs and clangs inherent to solid metal mountings with no bushing.
I took my car to Bamford Rose after 3 years of trying different springs and settings, return visits to DAE, multiple visits to different 'specialists' and about 100 emails to Nitron themselves, who basically to me to go away. I was ready to punt it, I'd had enough.
In 5 minutes Mike said 'this is racing suspension, its why the car knocks and clonks like an old tractor'. He recommended Bilstein switchable. I told him to fit, he did, and the car was transformed. Perfect handling, better than the Nitron.
While the hard position on the Bilstein is extreme, track use only, the standard set up, I believe a tad harder than the standard sportpack will be all the suspension you will ever need.
Calinours said:
I got DAE to fit Nitrons to my Vantage S in 2016. It was worst thing I ever did.
Nitrons are designed for the track. Even if you dont mind having to remove them and rebuild them every 6 months, or fit covers and boots to protect the rods from stone chip damage they are still no good for the road - IF you cant get used to the clunks, bangs and clangs inherent to solid metal mountings with no bushing.
I took my car to Bamford Rose after 3 years of trying different springs and settings, return visits to DAE, multiple visits to different 'specialists' and about 100 emails to Nitron themselves, who basically to me to go away. I was ready to punt it, I'd had enough.
In 5 minutes Mike said 'this is racing suspension, its why the car knocks and clonks like an old tractor'. He recommended Bilstein switchable. I told him to fit, he did, and the car was transformed. Perfect handling, better than the Nitron.
While the hard position on the Bilstein is extreme, track use only, the standard set up, I believe a tad harder than the standard sportpack will be all the suspension you will ever need.
You supplied the old Nitron R1 track dampers, the new Nitron R1-AM (road sport) dampers are a completely different product which are awesome on the road with full OEM weather shields, top and bottom mounts. Make sure you define which Nitrons you’re talking about as can be misleading Nitrons are designed for the track. Even if you dont mind having to remove them and rebuild them every 6 months, or fit covers and boots to protect the rods from stone chip damage they are still no good for the road - IF you cant get used to the clunks, bangs and clangs inherent to solid metal mountings with no bushing.
I took my car to Bamford Rose after 3 years of trying different springs and settings, return visits to DAE, multiple visits to different 'specialists' and about 100 emails to Nitron themselves, who basically to me to go away. I was ready to punt it, I'd had enough.
In 5 minutes Mike said 'this is racing suspension, its why the car knocks and clonks like an old tractor'. He recommended Bilstein switchable. I told him to fit, he did, and the car was transformed. Perfect handling, better than the Nitron.
While the hard position on the Bilstein is extreme, track use only, the standard set up, I believe a tad harder than the standard sportpack will be all the suspension you will ever need.
Aha, I presume this must be James - I remember you test driving the car when I returned it after a year and we not being able to get it to crash and bang so much on the Oxfordshire roads. Yes its true it was the Nitron R1 I brought along for DAE to fit. My dealings with the manufacturer left such a bitter taste I haven't ever revisited their product line.
Looking back, the key mistake I made was to source the Nitron R1 directly myself and then fetch them along for DAE to fit. It gave me no recourse with either supplier or installer when I wasn't happy with the result. This is the key piece of advice to OP or anyone thinking of upgrading - let the installer supply the bits - it might cost you a few more quid but the installer will at least be obliged to help you out if things go wrong.
I was explicit about the clunks and consider that solid bushes should have been identified by an outfit with the experience of DAE as the reason for the new clunking which was flagged immediately the units were fitted. What was worse was finally making the 300 mile round trip back to Banbury a year later and being convinced to spend a further £1000 on a new set of engine mounts to fix to the problem! Though it was a genuine attempt to fix a problem that was in my view just not properly diagnosed with NVH often being quite subjective. I'm convinced that racing drivers and race-based outfits (such as DAE) are just way more tolerant of funny noises than us mere road going mortals. Different perspectives and all that.
However, water long under bridge, my 2 years of having 'cheap' Nitron R1 fitted is thankfully just a memory. The experience consisted of swaps of 2 sets of front springs, swaps of 2 sets of rear springs and damper units, loads of time making recordings of clunking to send to Nitron, about 5 visits to various specialists, and ultimately costing more than double what it would have been to just get a main dealer to fit OEM kit to my V8S (that for some reason arrived fitted with jacked up suspension). I mightily ****** up sorting out my suspension issue - hopefully this advise might helps others not do the same
For the OP, if you are not sorted already, my recommendation would be the Bilstein units fitted as standard to Vantage S, they are perfect for fast road driving. If you are planning track days, spending a bit more on the switchable Bilstein option may be worth it - though the track mode is way too hard for any UK road. If considering the switchable Bilstein, don't bother using the 'cool' OEM integrated V12S glass dash suspension mode switch as a finishing touch, I went for this and it does not work properly - it seems that some internal switch logic discovers it isnt communicating with the rest of the car systems and it switches the suspension to race mode after 30-40mins of driving. This wouldn't usually be much of a problem, but on a long drive the period gets progressively less until after 2 hours of driving it switches the suspension to rock hard every 5 minutes, and is only reset by a power cycle (ignition off then on, not much fun on motorways). This was yet another 'thing I discovered' from these retrofit solutions - ho hum.
Most importantly, procure the bits through the installer. I cant comment about newer versions of Nitron products, or how their customer service might have developed in the last few years, but I keep an open mind.
Looking back, the key mistake I made was to source the Nitron R1 directly myself and then fetch them along for DAE to fit. It gave me no recourse with either supplier or installer when I wasn't happy with the result. This is the key piece of advice to OP or anyone thinking of upgrading - let the installer supply the bits - it might cost you a few more quid but the installer will at least be obliged to help you out if things go wrong.
I was explicit about the clunks and consider that solid bushes should have been identified by an outfit with the experience of DAE as the reason for the new clunking which was flagged immediately the units were fitted. What was worse was finally making the 300 mile round trip back to Banbury a year later and being convinced to spend a further £1000 on a new set of engine mounts to fix to the problem! Though it was a genuine attempt to fix a problem that was in my view just not properly diagnosed with NVH often being quite subjective. I'm convinced that racing drivers and race-based outfits (such as DAE) are just way more tolerant of funny noises than us mere road going mortals. Different perspectives and all that.
However, water long under bridge, my 2 years of having 'cheap' Nitron R1 fitted is thankfully just a memory. The experience consisted of swaps of 2 sets of front springs, swaps of 2 sets of rear springs and damper units, loads of time making recordings of clunking to send to Nitron, about 5 visits to various specialists, and ultimately costing more than double what it would have been to just get a main dealer to fit OEM kit to my V8S (that for some reason arrived fitted with jacked up suspension). I mightily ****** up sorting out my suspension issue - hopefully this advise might helps others not do the same
For the OP, if you are not sorted already, my recommendation would be the Bilstein units fitted as standard to Vantage S, they are perfect for fast road driving. If you are planning track days, spending a bit more on the switchable Bilstein option may be worth it - though the track mode is way too hard for any UK road. If considering the switchable Bilstein, don't bother using the 'cool' OEM integrated V12S glass dash suspension mode switch as a finishing touch, I went for this and it does not work properly - it seems that some internal switch logic discovers it isnt communicating with the rest of the car systems and it switches the suspension to race mode after 30-40mins of driving. This wouldn't usually be much of a problem, but on a long drive the period gets progressively less until after 2 hours of driving it switches the suspension to rock hard every 5 minutes, and is only reset by a power cycle (ignition off then on, not much fun on motorways). This was yet another 'thing I discovered' from these retrofit solutions - ho hum.
Most importantly, procure the bits through the installer. I cant comment about newer versions of Nitron products, or how their customer service might have developed in the last few years, but I keep an open mind.
I'm sure I've posted this elsewhere however, if the OP hasn't yet made a decision, I went the Vantage Engineering route.
Their product having been developed by them and a former Benetton F1 chassis/suspension engineer. The weight saving and overall cost to performance is unreal.
They can be set up for whatever the client's needs are and the service offered by the team at VE is second to none in my experience.
Base cost for the shocks when I had them fitted earlier this year was £525 a corner plus fitting and VAT.
Their product having been developed by them and a former Benetton F1 chassis/suspension engineer. The weight saving and overall cost to performance is unreal.
They can be set up for whatever the client's needs are and the service offered by the team at VE is second to none in my experience.
Base cost for the shocks when I had them fitted earlier this year was £525 a corner plus fitting and VAT.
Calinours said:
Aha, I presume this must be James - I remember you test driving the car when I returned it after a year and we not being able to get it to crash and bang so much on the Oxfordshire roads. Yes its true it was the Nitron R1 I brought along for DAE to fit. My dealings with the manufacturer left such a bitter taste I haven't ever revisited their product line.
Looking back, the key mistake I made was to source the Nitron R1 directly myself and then fetch them along for DAE to fit. It gave me no recourse with either supplier or installer when I wasn't happy with the result. This is the key piece of advice to OP or anyone thinking of upgrading - let the installer supply the bits - it might cost you a few more quid but the installer will at least be obliged to help you out if things go wrong.
I was explicit about the clunks and consider that solid bushes should have been identified by an outfit with the experience of DAE as the reason for the new clunking which was flagged immediately the units were fitted. What was worse was finally making the 300 mile round trip back to Banbury a year later and being convinced to spend a further £1000 on a new set of engine mounts to fix to the problem! Though it was a genuine attempt to fix a problem that was in my view just not properly diagnosed with NVH often being quite subjective. I'm convinced that racing drivers and race-based outfits (such as DAE) are just way more tolerant of funny noises than us mere road going mortals. Different perspectives and all that.
However, water long under bridge, my 2 years of having 'cheap' Nitron R1 fitted is thankfully just a memory. The experience consisted of swaps of 2 sets of front springs, swaps of 2 sets of rear springs and damper units, loads of time making recordings of clunking to send to Nitron, about 5 visits to various specialists, and ultimately costing more than double what it would have been to just get a main dealer to fit OEM kit to my V8S (that for some reason arrived fitted with jacked up suspension). I mightily ****** up sorting out my suspension issue - hopefully this advise might helps others not do the same
For the OP, if you are not sorted already, my recommendation would be the Bilstein units fitted as standard to Vantage S, they are perfect for fast road driving. If you are planning track days, spending a bit more on the switchable Bilstein option may be worth it - though the track mode is way too hard for any UK road. If considering the switchable Bilstein, don't bother using the 'cool' OEM integrated V12S glass dash suspension mode switch as a finishing touch, I went for this and it does not work properly - it seems that some internal switch logic discovers it isnt communicating with the rest of the car systems and it switches the suspension to race mode after 30-40mins of driving. This wouldn't usually be much of a problem, but on a long drive the period gets progressively less until after 2 hours of driving it switches the suspension to rock hard every 5 minutes, and is only reset by a power cycle (ignition off then on, not much fun on motorways). This was yet another 'thing I discovered' from these retrofit solutions - ho hum.
Most importantly, procure the bits through the installer. I cant comment about newer versions of Nitron products, or how their customer service might have developed in the last few years, but I keep an open mind.
I very much agree. THE CHIRPING AND CLANKING SOUND OF THE NTR R1 IS SUPER IRRITATING. Even my friends who aren't familiar with cars mocked me that I raised a full nest of birds in my cabin. Looking back, the key mistake I made was to source the Nitron R1 directly myself and then fetch them along for DAE to fit. It gave me no recourse with either supplier or installer when I wasn't happy with the result. This is the key piece of advice to OP or anyone thinking of upgrading - let the installer supply the bits - it might cost you a few more quid but the installer will at least be obliged to help you out if things go wrong.
I was explicit about the clunks and consider that solid bushes should have been identified by an outfit with the experience of DAE as the reason for the new clunking which was flagged immediately the units were fitted. What was worse was finally making the 300 mile round trip back to Banbury a year later and being convinced to spend a further £1000 on a new set of engine mounts to fix to the problem! Though it was a genuine attempt to fix a problem that was in my view just not properly diagnosed with NVH often being quite subjective. I'm convinced that racing drivers and race-based outfits (such as DAE) are just way more tolerant of funny noises than us mere road going mortals. Different perspectives and all that.
However, water long under bridge, my 2 years of having 'cheap' Nitron R1 fitted is thankfully just a memory. The experience consisted of swaps of 2 sets of front springs, swaps of 2 sets of rear springs and damper units, loads of time making recordings of clunking to send to Nitron, about 5 visits to various specialists, and ultimately costing more than double what it would have been to just get a main dealer to fit OEM kit to my V8S (that for some reason arrived fitted with jacked up suspension). I mightily ****** up sorting out my suspension issue - hopefully this advise might helps others not do the same
For the OP, if you are not sorted already, my recommendation would be the Bilstein units fitted as standard to Vantage S, they are perfect for fast road driving. If you are planning track days, spending a bit more on the switchable Bilstein option may be worth it - though the track mode is way too hard for any UK road. If considering the switchable Bilstein, don't bother using the 'cool' OEM integrated V12S glass dash suspension mode switch as a finishing touch, I went for this and it does not work properly - it seems that some internal switch logic discovers it isnt communicating with the rest of the car systems and it switches the suspension to race mode after 30-40mins of driving. This wouldn't usually be much of a problem, but on a long drive the period gets progressively less until after 2 hours of driving it switches the suspension to rock hard every 5 minutes, and is only reset by a power cycle (ignition off then on, not much fun on motorways). This was yet another 'thing I discovered' from these retrofit solutions - ho hum.
Most importantly, procure the bits through the installer. I cant comment about newer versions of Nitron products, or how their customer service might have developed in the last few years, but I keep an open mind.
Tbh, the suspension feels amazing. I can push my car 30% more than normal speed I have done. However, even when it's new, it starts chirping at low speed from 10km/h-50km/h. When used for a year, more chirpping at higher speed.
I didn't expect road use suspension (according to Nitron, I've ordered a road use set up) would generate such intolerable noise. What I have done (trying to save it) was:
- full axle, control arms replacement;
- 3 times visit to my car specialist for calibration(who is the best in town), and 1 time to our local Nitron dealer;
- Wheel alignments;
- 2 times of lubrication;
After all we can just conclude that, everything is running fine, the ride is good. All you can do is buy a set of Xpipe!
Strongly not recommended for road use. Always OEM the best for best quality of ride.
p.s. I register my account just to resonate with you guys on this topic. I hope whoever see this reply could feel how much dread there is.
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