Autocar interview with Moers
Discussion
https://www.autocar.co.uk/car-news/features/ill-le...
Interesting comment about sliding the back out...... I wonder for how many existing AM customers this is a key ingredient?
Interesting comment about sliding the back out...... I wonder for how many existing AM customers this is a key ingredient?
I'm not convinced by all of the latest pronouncements; I still think there's an element of "Look how rubbish the cars were and how bad the plan was. Look how good it all is under me".
Bernd Mayländer commented that the Aston was faster through the corners of an F1 circuit than the AMG and I doubt he has an axe to grind.
Bernd Mayländer commented that the Aston was faster through the corners of an F1 circuit than the AMG and I doubt he has an axe to grind.
"Aston stands for beauty, but maybe we lean too much on that.
7min 30sec lap of the Nordschleife, that is 15 seconds faster.
You need to be able to slide the car under perfect control."
Does that mean understated has ended ?
Should we be sliding (drifting) our cars on the way to the supermarket?
Best not on the journey home, because the eggs might be broken.
Ten models between now and 2023? Yoicks! Even more bullish and ambitious plans than Mr. Palmer, but I'm sure he's convinced that at least he knows how to run a car company properly.
And that talk of sliding the car and Nurburgring times... makes me wonder again, who exactly is the typical Aston Martin customer in 2021?
Jon, why are you worried about the eggs? Surely Aston owners don't go shopping - don't they use the hired help to fetch the groceries? Or is that the former type of Aston owner, since replaced by the one that cares about oversteer on the road and four wheel drifts around the Green Hell?
And that talk of sliding the car and Nurburgring times... makes me wonder again, who exactly is the typical Aston Martin customer in 2021?
Jon, why are you worried about the eggs? Surely Aston owners don't go shopping - don't they use the hired help to fetch the groceries? Or is that the former type of Aston owner, since replaced by the one that cares about oversteer on the road and four wheel drifts around the Green Hell?
Edited by quench on Sunday 6th June 22:26
Autocar article says:
"senior management is now peppered with competent people who Moers trusts"
Peppered? If he does not think senior management are ALL competent then he's a bit screwed isn't he?
Autocar article also says;
"Previously, it was a ‘black box’ customer, needing to graft its own software onto untouchable components arriving from Germany, which is one reason why the DB11’s V12 has never had perfect lowend engine responses. That’s one foible that’s rapidly being improved, says Moers."
Huh? The DB11 V12 is an AML item. What's that got to do with AMG?
"senior management is now peppered with competent people who Moers trusts"
Peppered? If he does not think senior management are ALL competent then he's a bit screwed isn't he?
Autocar article also says;
"Previously, it was a ‘black box’ customer, needing to graft its own software onto untouchable components arriving from Germany, which is one reason why the DB11’s V12 has never had perfect lowend engine responses. That’s one foible that’s rapidly being improved, says Moers."
Huh? The DB11 V12 is an AML item. What's that got to do with AMG?
quench said:
Ten models between now and 2023? Yoicks! Even more bullish and ambitious plans than Mr. Palmer, but I'm sure he's convinced that at least he knows how to run a car company properly.
And that talk of sliding the car and Nurburgring times... makes me wonder again, who exactly is the typical Aston Martin customer in 2021?
Jon, why are you worried about the eggs? Surely Aston owners don't go shopping - don't they use the hired help to fetch the groceries? Or is that the former type of Aston owner, since replaced by the one that cares about oversteer on the road and four wheel drifts around the Green Hell?
If the vantage f1 counts as one then that is including special editions maybe - I hope I am wrong on that as the special editions were getting to the stage of making the list of mini special editions look short.And that talk of sliding the car and Nurburgring times... makes me wonder again, who exactly is the typical Aston Martin customer in 2021?
Jon, why are you worried about the eggs? Surely Aston owners don't go shopping - don't they use the hired help to fetch the groceries? Or is that the former type of Aston owner, since replaced by the one that cares about oversteer on the road and four wheel drifts around the Green Hell?
Edited by quench on Sunday 6th June 22:26
On numerous occasions I made the error of inferring that Aston owners just wanted something pretty to look at, and that driving dynamics weren't high on the list of priorities. The current and previous management both feel that strong driving dynamics are important if you're trying to sell cars to compete in a very tough couple of segments.
I'll take the opportunity to put my hand up and apologise to Tobias though; I'd previously noted that I thought part of the reason for his departure from AMG was a disillusionment at the course they were heading in respect of downsizing engines. It turns out to be not the case at all. Of course that'll ring alarm bells in those who think he's about to push the idea of a 4-cylinder hybrid Vantage and so on, which probably isn't the case.
With all these sit downs and interviews with the media, they'll forever be dissected in the hope of finding a smoking gun to start another witch hunt, but TM's more interested in sorting out the company, the cars and building a strong foundation for the future. Given a bit of time, Project Horizon will start to make sense and see results, but like I noted last year - the loyal following are impatient and some think the CEO's seat should be a revolving door like a Premiership football team manager's post.
I'll take the opportunity to put my hand up and apologise to Tobias though; I'd previously noted that I thought part of the reason for his departure from AMG was a disillusionment at the course they were heading in respect of downsizing engines. It turns out to be not the case at all. Of course that'll ring alarm bells in those who think he's about to push the idea of a 4-cylinder hybrid Vantage and so on, which probably isn't the case.
With all these sit downs and interviews with the media, they'll forever be dissected in the hope of finding a smoking gun to start another witch hunt, but TM's more interested in sorting out the company, the cars and building a strong foundation for the future. Given a bit of time, Project Horizon will start to make sense and see results, but like I noted last year - the loyal following are impatient and some think the CEO's seat should be a revolving door like a Premiership football team manager's post.
Agreed - CEO’s generally are well matched for particular sizes of and stages of company.
The last thing AM need right now is more change (perhaps aside from the design dept imho). Like I said earlier, with the AMG and Lotus experts for engines and handling at the table, they seem to have the right ingredients lining up.
like a few things in life, they can be fantastic under the skin, but often the first sense to be aroused is sight (ok maybe smell but I’m not in the habit of sniffing cars)
The last thing AM need right now is more change (perhaps aside from the design dept imho). Like I said earlier, with the AMG and Lotus experts for engines and handling at the table, they seem to have the right ingredients lining up.
like a few things in life, they can be fantastic under the skin, but often the first sense to be aroused is sight (ok maybe smell but I’m not in the habit of sniffing cars)
quench said:
Jon, why are you worried about the eggs? Surely Aston owners don't go shopping - don't they use the hired help to fetch the groceries? Or is that the former type of Aston owner, since replaced by the one that cares about oversteer on the road and four wheel drifts around the Green Hell?
My oft repeated joke about my chauffeur/butler/gardener dealing with mundane chores, did not fit the circumstances, so I attempted to think where Mr Moers would expect me drift my Vantage.
I have watched a video of Tobias Moers drifting a Mercedes-Benz around a race track, but unlike him, most existing Aston Martin owners do not have someone else's car available to abuse. Does he seriously believe, that this is a priority for the elusive new type of Aston Martin renters/buyers ?
I am still convinced that the strongest initial 'bait' to prospective Aston Martin buyers, are stunningly beautiful cars.
That certainly worked when attracting huge numbers of first time AM customers for the VH cars, so (genuine question) why should that be different now?
Edited by Jon39 on Monday 7th June 09:14
Jon39 said:
My oft repeated joke about my chauffeur/butler/gardener dealing with mundane chores, did not fit the circumstances, so I attempted to think where Mr Moers would expect me drift my Vantage.
I have watched a video of Tobias Moers drifting a Mercedes-Benz around a race track, but unlike him, most existing Aston Martin owners do not have someone else's car available to abuse. Does he seriously believe, that this is a priority for the elusive new type of Aston Martin renters/buyers ?
I am still convinced that the strongest initial 'bait' to prospective Aston Martin buyers, are stunningly beautiful cars.
That certainly worked when attracting huge numbers of first time AM customers for the VH cars, so (genuine question) why should that be different now?
I think it's important that purists accept that for these cars to sell well, they need to do more than just look pretty these days. Moers isn't obsessed with lap times, but he knows that when building performance cars, they need to offer performance on a level with rival car makers. Aesthetics are not enough; if everyone can wait just under 2 years, we'll know what the answer is.
Had the approach been to solely focus on the styling and forget all about performance, it might move a few existing customers out of old Vantages and DB9's, but anybody outside the Aston bubble would probably be questioning why the cars, as pretty as they would be, didn't offer a level of performance that goes with the price. Every single facet of the cars will be addressed - for most part the cars already perform well enough, so it's predominantly a case of re-working the styling and bringing higher quality trinkets.
I think people need to read between the lines when you hear engineers talking about a car being able to drift in a controllable manner. They of course do not expect people to do that in any way shape or form, but as many many car journalist have pointed out, a car that that is easy and controllable to drive over the grip limit is usually a fundamentally good handling car.
cypriot said:
but as many many car journalist have pointed out, a car that that is easy and controllable to drive over the grip limit is usually a fundamentally good handling car.
This is an interesting point to debate.First, I have to start with the definition of handling. My definition, which by no means is 'correct', will be applied to a road car's on the road characteristics (as opposed to on a track), and involves obvious factors such as mechanical grip, turn-in, steering feel and front-rear balance. I also include ride as part of a car's handling, as they are inextricably linked on the road at least.
Next I will think of one of the most enjoyable and I think best handling cars I've owned, a Lotus Exige. Judging based on the above factors, it had excellent handling in my book, on the road and up to 9.9/10 on track. However, over the limit of grip on track, it was certainly not easy to control. A short wheelbase, mid-engined layout and low moment of inertia made it decidedly a challenge, and certainly not easy to drift, at least with my limited skills.
Last I will recall my old V8 Vantage. On the road its handling to me was not nearly as good as that of the Lotus. I think a lot of this was down to the relatively poor ride quality and the odd disconnect between the front and rear, possibly due to spring rates. However, over the grip limit on track, it was much easier to control than the Exige.
So which is the better handling car? The Vantage, I suppose, if you believe Moer's argument. Well, sorry, I'm having none of it. These are road cars and most manufacturers have forgotten how to build ones that handle well. In fairness, a lot of that is down to excess mass, partly legislated and partly due to consumer preferences/demands. But a lot of it is due to this foolish obsession with chasing headline performance numbers, mechanical grip/huge wheels, and Nurburgring times.
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