Porsche 911 C2S to Vantage V8S Questions
Discussion
Hi,
I am considering a change from a 997.2 Carrera 2S to a Vantage V8S, likely to be a 2014-2016 V8S. I would be grateful of feedback from anyone who has done a similar switch and also from those with a V8S who could give me some feedback on what the car is like to drive and own.
How is the V8S to drive, eg Power, Handling and general feel of the car?
Does the car show or hide its weight?
Things to look out for on a 5-7 yr old V8S?
Maintenance costs on a V8S (Noting that the servicing on the 911 was always a 4 figure amount...although every second yr)
What differences will I notice between the 911 and the V8S?
Is the premium for Aston Main Main Dealer cars worth it due to the warranty? And can the warranty be added to a second hand V8S following purchase (From outwith main dealer network?), and what is the cost?
I am undecided between manual and auto, but swaying more towards a manual than auto. How is the auto as there are conflicting reports in reviews of the V8S with the 7 sp auto box.
I would be grateful of any feedback especially those who own or have owned a V8S.
Thanks
I am considering a change from a 997.2 Carrera 2S to a Vantage V8S, likely to be a 2014-2016 V8S. I would be grateful of feedback from anyone who has done a similar switch and also from those with a V8S who could give me some feedback on what the car is like to drive and own.
How is the V8S to drive, eg Power, Handling and general feel of the car?
Does the car show or hide its weight?
Things to look out for on a 5-7 yr old V8S?
Maintenance costs on a V8S (Noting that the servicing on the 911 was always a 4 figure amount...although every second yr)
What differences will I notice between the 911 and the V8S?
Is the premium for Aston Main Main Dealer cars worth it due to the warranty? And can the warranty be added to a second hand V8S following purchase (From outwith main dealer network?), and what is the cost?
I am undecided between manual and auto, but swaying more towards a manual than auto. How is the auto as there are conflicting reports in reviews of the V8S with the 7 sp auto box.
I would be grateful of any feedback especially those who own or have owned a V8S.
Thanks
mc72 said:
How is the V8S to drive, eg Power, Handling and general feel of the car?
Does the car show or hide its weight?
Things to look out for on a 5-7 yr old V8S?
Maintenance costs on a V8S (Noting that the servicing on the 911 was always a 4 figure amount...although every second yr)
What differences will I notice between the 911 and the V8S?
Is the premium for Aston Main Main Dealer cars worth it due to the warranty? And can the warranty be added to a second hand V8S following purchase (From outwith main dealer network?), and what is the cost?
I am undecided between manual and auto, but swaying more towards a manual than auto. How is the auto as there are conflicting reports in reviews of the V8S with the 7 sp auto box.
Ok, so Ive owned a 4.7 V8V but it wasn't an S. Since then Ive owned two V12V and one V12VS.... Prior to that I had a 997.1 manual then a 997.2 PDK.Does the car show or hide its weight?
Things to look out for on a 5-7 yr old V8S?
Maintenance costs on a V8S (Noting that the servicing on the 911 was always a 4 figure amount...although every second yr)
What differences will I notice between the 911 and the V8S?
Is the premium for Aston Main Main Dealer cars worth it due to the warranty? And can the warranty be added to a second hand V8S following purchase (From outwith main dealer network?), and what is the cost?
I am undecided between manual and auto, but swaying more towards a manual than auto. How is the auto as there are conflicting reports in reviews of the V8S with the 7 sp auto box.
Firstly let me say the V8 Aston sportshift is NOT an auto... It is an automated manual. Think BMW E46 SMGII.... It is not like Porsche PDK, it take a lot of technique to drive it smoothly, really the BMW SMG was the closest thing. That said if you are that way inclined its a great system and can be rewarding to drive. For me, manual would be my choice.
mc72 said:
How is the V8S to drive, eg Power, Handling and general feel of the car?
Well its no Porsche... It will feel slower and heavier, but the sound is spine tingling, much better than a 997.2 even with PSE, and it will make you feel special every time you get in it. The interior may at first feel a little hand made, but once you get used to it, its so much more special and rewarding than a Porsche. Thats not to say Porsche are not at the top of what they do, but handmade is just that. Feel special.mc72 said:
Does the car show or hide its weight?
Its remarkably nimble given its actual weight, but coming from a 997.2 I think you will find it a backwards step. That said, its plenty fast enough, and once you have one you will realise that there is so much more to Aston ownership than just the speed.mc72 said:
Things to look out for on a 5-7 yr old V8S?
Well its a 5-7yr old car... same stuff on any old car really. Depends on how well the previous owner(s) have looked after it.mc72 said:
Maintenance costs on a V8S (Noting that the servicing on the 911 was always a 4 figure amount...although every second yr)
Quite reasonable compared to the Porsche. Lower if anything really. Nothing to get too upset about.mc72 said:
What differences will I notice between the 911 and the V8S?
Well the big difference is everyone loves an Aston. You will get let out at junctions, met my young and old alike in service stations with comments like "what a beautiful car", and smiles all round. The fact is everything thinks a Porsche driver is a ****, even if you arn't. Everyone thinks an Aston driver is a gentleman, even if you arn't
AdamV12V said:
Well the big difference is everyone loves an Aston. You will get let out at junctions, met my young and old alike in service stations with comments like "what a beautiful car", and smiles all round.
The fact is everything thinks a Porsche driver is a ****, even if you arn't. Everyone thinks an Aston driver is a gentleman, even if you arn't
Thanks for the feedback, its very helpful and much appreciated.The fact is everything thinks a Porsche driver is a ****, even if you arn't. Everyone thinks an Aston driver is a gentleman, even if you arn't
The Porsche is a very good car but I do want a change and the Vantage is a car I considered prior to the Porsche. The Porsche doesnt feel that special any more and that may just be down to familiarity on my behalf, but I don't want to change to something that feels a big step back after the 911. So the comment about it being a step back is a "bit" of a concern, although to comment about the handling of the Vantage is positive.
For me the car needs to feel special and it sounds as though the V8S would feel that way based on the feedback above. I like to have a "spirited" drive on occasions but I'm not a pro racer so am unlikely to be driving the car at 10/10ths, so hopefully the V8S wouldnt feel so far behind the 911. These comments might beg the question well why are you insisting on a V8S, and that's a valid question but based on what I've read and also the look of the V8S I'd just prefer one of these.
The question I asked about a 5-7yr old car is obviously subjective based on the mileage and previous owners, but the 911 has items that will need to be replaced around that age based on age rather than purely mileage and wondered if the Vantage (V8 or V8S) was the same?
I'd be interested to know the thoughts about buying from franchised main dealer as there are some cars outwith that network (Private and non franchise) that seems good cars.
I just mention this in case you do not know about them.
One of the Aston Martin independent maintenance specialists, has made many YouTube videos.
The proprietor who presents the films has an engineering background with AML.
Some of the questions which you have just raised, may be talked about in those videos.
Look for Bamford Rose on YouTube. There are now so many, that an index might be required, but you may find something helpful.
And about the cars. After many years, I don't want to part with my Vantage. They are indeed special cars, beautiful, N/A, V8, manual, wonderful exhaust sound, that combination will never be made again.
.
I actually think a vantage S wouldn’t be slower than a 997 if it’s ‘just’ a carrera.
My best pal has a 997.1 GT3 which my vantage lives with in most road situations that aren’t a standing start and he is no slouch.
The Aston is actually a bit quicker once on a roll to a point. Certainly quicker than we all thought it would be between friends. It’s no rocket ship but it’s quick enough in my opinion atleast.
Chassis wise, the porker IS more focused but as with most things it’s subjective and depends what you want from a car.
I would agree that the Aston is more special, but again that’s subjective.
I was pleasantly surprised with my Aston, it’s a lot more capable than many seem to give it credit for. I like some Porsches but many I find dull as dish water.
My best pal has a 997.1 GT3 which my vantage lives with in most road situations that aren’t a standing start and he is no slouch.
The Aston is actually a bit quicker once on a roll to a point. Certainly quicker than we all thought it would be between friends. It’s no rocket ship but it’s quick enough in my opinion atleast.
Chassis wise, the porker IS more focused but as with most things it’s subjective and depends what you want from a car.
I would agree that the Aston is more special, but again that’s subjective.
I was pleasantly surprised with my Aston, it’s a lot more capable than many seem to give it credit for. I like some Porsches but many I find dull as dish water.
Edited by Finding Neutral on Sunday 19th December 01:25
OP
Had a very well spec’d V8 4.3 N400 for a year.
After 911 was disappointed by -
Clutch feel (upgraded to double plate) and gearbox. SS may have suited me better.
Ride,
Lack of engine sparkle (lightweight flywheel helped a bit).
Cabin ergonomics.
All of the above highlighted by the fact I kept the 911 and ran the two side by side.
The Aston was pretty other than that I but haven’t missed it for a second.
Unless you try one something you don’t know if you like the flavour so do have a go.
Had a very well spec’d V8 4.3 N400 for a year.
After 911 was disappointed by -
Clutch feel (upgraded to double plate) and gearbox. SS may have suited me better.
Ride,
Lack of engine sparkle (lightweight flywheel helped a bit).
Cabin ergonomics.
All of the above highlighted by the fact I kept the 911 and ran the two side by side.
The Aston was pretty other than that I but haven’t missed it for a second.
Unless you try one something you don’t know if you like the flavour so do have a go.
David W. said:
OP
Had a very well spec’d V8 4.3 N400 for a year.
After 911 was disappointed by;
Clutch feel (upgraded to double plate) and gearbox. SS may have suited me better.
Ride,
Lack of engine sparkle (lightweight flywheel helped a bit).
Cabin ergonomics.
Unless you try one something you don’t know if you like the flavour, so do have a go.
Had a very well spec’d V8 4.3 N400 for a year.
After 911 was disappointed by;
Clutch feel (upgraded to double plate) and gearbox. SS may have suited me better.
Ride,
Lack of engine sparkle (lightweight flywheel helped a bit).
Cabin ergonomics.
Unless you try one something you don’t know if you like the flavour, so do have a go.
Hope you will not mind me commenting David, but the OP has referred to a 2014-2016 V8 Vantage S model.
The points which you have mentioned (except for the clutch feel) were improved upon in the V8VS.
Ride improved, mainly by the change to Bilstein dampers.
More engine power and torque.
Better looking centre console and I am not sure, but had the seats been improved by 2014?.
Think some S models have the optional lightweight seats.
The S has some other improvements from the N400, but I cannot tell you what they are.
After purchase possibilities;
As you mentioned, the clutch feel can be transformed by having a twin-plate clutch and lighter flywheel.
Also power can easily be increased from the existing 430bhp to about 460bhp, by fairly inexpensive exhaust and airbox changes.
Engine power would then be 15% more than the N400 model and the torque very noticeably increased.
Even more power can be obtained from the 4.7 V8, but then it does start to become more expensive.
As you say, need to drive one first, because we all have different expectations.
Personally I've purchased several Astons privately and on my first one taken it to a franchised dealer for inspection and then applied the AM warranty.
I have since not bothered with the warranty as with a bit of luck these cars are very reliable. Warranty was around 2k at the time I had mine. (7 years ago)
I had a manual V8S and I can't imagine how it would disappoint you in any dynamic area. I think the interior is beautiful, the exterior is beautiful, it sounds awesome, it's pretty bloody fast and handles well.
Manual V8S are rare and actually if you are looking franchised then you are maybe spending V12 money privately.
I now have a V12 and it's very similar to the S but the pull of the engine is just one slightly broader smile upon pressing the throttle.
The clutch on the V12 is twin plate and feels better.
If you modify AM cars you possibly/probably lose money in there value so if 430bhp isn't enough (which it is) then get the 510bhp V12.
I have since not bothered with the warranty as with a bit of luck these cars are very reliable. Warranty was around 2k at the time I had mine. (7 years ago)
I had a manual V8S and I can't imagine how it would disappoint you in any dynamic area. I think the interior is beautiful, the exterior is beautiful, it sounds awesome, it's pretty bloody fast and handles well.
Manual V8S are rare and actually if you are looking franchised then you are maybe spending V12 money privately.
I now have a V12 and it's very similar to the S but the pull of the engine is just one slightly broader smile upon pressing the throttle.
The clutch on the V12 is twin plate and feels better.
If you modify AM cars you possibly/probably lose money in there value so if 430bhp isn't enough (which it is) then get the 510bhp V12.
I've never owned a 911 but have driven a couple and I'm now on my second Vantage. It's a 2014MY manual V8VS that I've owned for the last 6.5 years, taking it from 12K to 46K miles. I love it and will probably never sell it because what is there to replace it (except a GT3)? The Vantage evolved a lot over the years but the V8 never evolved as much as it could have done and therefore as soon as it was out of factory warranty I had a number of modifications done to make it as much of a fast road drivers car as it could be.
It has the lightweight flywheel and twin plate clutch which transform interaction with the gearbox. Many people think the V12 has a better gearbox than the V8 but it is all down to the clutch & flywheel. The gearbox is the same 6-speed manual Graziano box. I have equal length tubular manifolds and 200 cell cats which, along with remap etc., take power to about 470bhp. Fast road geo and V12V wheels with V12V size Michelin PS4S tyres. It also has the CF lightweight fixed back buckets which are fantastic. It started out as a rare spec. (manual & lightweight seats) and with the mods is virtually unique but it was all worth the cost to me.
Does it drive as well as a 997 C2S? I would say so but I'm obviously biased. Is it more special than a C2S? Yes, definitely. As others have said; the looks, the interior, the sound, the image, just can't be beaten.
It has been very reliable and I've run it without warranty for the last 5 years. Indy servicing more thorough and a little cheaper than main dealer. Usually around £900 including a few bits & pieces at time of service. Parts can be pricy and sometimes there's no way to avoid the Aston Tax.
I think you can buy from franchise, specialist or privately but play it differently. Main dealer has warranty so get a post-purchase inspection by Bamford Rose (or similar indy) then get stuff fixed under warranty. For non-franchised dealer or private purchase get a pre-purchase inspection (BR or similar, not main dealer) then negotiate on fixes or price. If they won't allow an inspection then walk away.
I don't think you'll regret it.
It has the lightweight flywheel and twin plate clutch which transform interaction with the gearbox. Many people think the V12 has a better gearbox than the V8 but it is all down to the clutch & flywheel. The gearbox is the same 6-speed manual Graziano box. I have equal length tubular manifolds and 200 cell cats which, along with remap etc., take power to about 470bhp. Fast road geo and V12V wheels with V12V size Michelin PS4S tyres. It also has the CF lightweight fixed back buckets which are fantastic. It started out as a rare spec. (manual & lightweight seats) and with the mods is virtually unique but it was all worth the cost to me.
Does it drive as well as a 997 C2S? I would say so but I'm obviously biased. Is it more special than a C2S? Yes, definitely. As others have said; the looks, the interior, the sound, the image, just can't be beaten.
It has been very reliable and I've run it without warranty for the last 5 years. Indy servicing more thorough and a little cheaper than main dealer. Usually around £900 including a few bits & pieces at time of service. Parts can be pricy and sometimes there's no way to avoid the Aston Tax.
I think you can buy from franchise, specialist or privately but play it differently. Main dealer has warranty so get a post-purchase inspection by Bamford Rose (or similar indy) then get stuff fixed under warranty. For non-franchised dealer or private purchase get a pre-purchase inspection (BR or similar, not main dealer) then negotiate on fixes or price. If they won't allow an inspection then walk away.
I don't think you'll regret it.
I will chime with my thoughts as well, as my brother owns a 997.2 C2S manual, and I own a v8 vantage manual AMR. I have driven both extensively, back to back on the same roads, in the same cities, and on the same tracks, so I can give you some honest comparisons.
The gearbox of the 997.2 is superior to the vantage, but that doesn't mean the vantage's is bad. The vantage does have a nice gearbox, but its not quite as precise as the 997. Clutch in the vantage is substantially heavier, which then means stop start traffic is harder in the vantage. However I would 100% recommend to do the twin plate clutch and lightweight flywheel upgrade for the vantage as this will make the clutch much lighter, and also makes the engine more responsive.
This leads onto the performance. The vantage (in 430bhp) is the quicker car, probably due to the amount of torque, but it is quicker, both on road and on track. It's not night and day, but have no concerns about the performance of the vantage. Also, due to various factors like the weight distribution, tyre sizes, torque etc, you can play with the rear axle of the vantage far more easily than in the 997, which has tremendous rear axle grip - this is not a pro or a con of either car, just a different character. The flat 6 does rev more freely than the v8, but that gap closes with the lightweight flywheel.
Now handling. The vantage is slightly stiffer than the 997 so low speed ride is better in the 997, however up the speed and the damping in the vantage can deal with bumpier roads slightly better than the 997. The vantage has a much better front end turn in, and far less understeer due to the weight distribution. Both have equally good steering feel. The brakes on the vantage (the 6 piston ones) are also stronger than than the 997, however the 997's brakes will resist fade better than the vantage - probably due to the weight advantage of the 997. The vantage does not feel its weight, and has world class balance.
In terms of drivability, you simply cannot beat a 911. visibility is fantastic, parking is a doddle, loads of luggage space and of course the rear seats. Plus cupholders!! the 997 has probably the best cup holders ever integrated in a car. Bottom line is that the 997 is the better day to day car.
In terms of specialness, you simply cannot beat the vantage. the sound, the looks, the interior, the badge. the way other people respond to the vantage is vastly superior to a 911. The vantage is simply a more special car, and you feel that specialness every time you drive it. That makes the vantage a much better weekend car.
Both are equally capable road trip cars.
As for maintenance, the aston will be more expensive by virtue of having to do annual services rather than every 2. Parts are more expensive for the vantage as well. However you will no doubt know about the common 997 issues like the condensers, coolant pipes that require engine out etc, plus the 997 is 5/6 years older than the vantage you are considering. So you could be facing big bills for the 997 to replace bushes, dampers, brake discs etc - you will know better than me what you car will need!
If you can, buy from a main dealer with the warranty. Not that much of a premium, but you will 100% need the warranty to cover items that no dealer (either independent or franchise) would have done prior to selling you the car.
obviously, go and test drive one. When you do, do not be put off by the initial impression of sitting in a bath tub with high sides and a dash that is miles away - it will feel very alien coming from the 997. But once you have had 10/15 mins behind the wheel of the vantage, it should all click, and the car will shrink around you. Hope that helps!
The gearbox of the 997.2 is superior to the vantage, but that doesn't mean the vantage's is bad. The vantage does have a nice gearbox, but its not quite as precise as the 997. Clutch in the vantage is substantially heavier, which then means stop start traffic is harder in the vantage. However I would 100% recommend to do the twin plate clutch and lightweight flywheel upgrade for the vantage as this will make the clutch much lighter, and also makes the engine more responsive.
This leads onto the performance. The vantage (in 430bhp) is the quicker car, probably due to the amount of torque, but it is quicker, both on road and on track. It's not night and day, but have no concerns about the performance of the vantage. Also, due to various factors like the weight distribution, tyre sizes, torque etc, you can play with the rear axle of the vantage far more easily than in the 997, which has tremendous rear axle grip - this is not a pro or a con of either car, just a different character. The flat 6 does rev more freely than the v8, but that gap closes with the lightweight flywheel.
Now handling. The vantage is slightly stiffer than the 997 so low speed ride is better in the 997, however up the speed and the damping in the vantage can deal with bumpier roads slightly better than the 997. The vantage has a much better front end turn in, and far less understeer due to the weight distribution. Both have equally good steering feel. The brakes on the vantage (the 6 piston ones) are also stronger than than the 997, however the 997's brakes will resist fade better than the vantage - probably due to the weight advantage of the 997. The vantage does not feel its weight, and has world class balance.
In terms of drivability, you simply cannot beat a 911. visibility is fantastic, parking is a doddle, loads of luggage space and of course the rear seats. Plus cupholders!! the 997 has probably the best cup holders ever integrated in a car. Bottom line is that the 997 is the better day to day car.
In terms of specialness, you simply cannot beat the vantage. the sound, the looks, the interior, the badge. the way other people respond to the vantage is vastly superior to a 911. The vantage is simply a more special car, and you feel that specialness every time you drive it. That makes the vantage a much better weekend car.
Both are equally capable road trip cars.
As for maintenance, the aston will be more expensive by virtue of having to do annual services rather than every 2. Parts are more expensive for the vantage as well. However you will no doubt know about the common 997 issues like the condensers, coolant pipes that require engine out etc, plus the 997 is 5/6 years older than the vantage you are considering. So you could be facing big bills for the 997 to replace bushes, dampers, brake discs etc - you will know better than me what you car will need!
If you can, buy from a main dealer with the warranty. Not that much of a premium, but you will 100% need the warranty to cover items that no dealer (either independent or franchise) would have done prior to selling you the car.
obviously, go and test drive one. When you do, do not be put off by the initial impression of sitting in a bath tub with high sides and a dash that is miles away - it will feel very alien coming from the 997. But once you have had 10/15 mins behind the wheel of the vantage, it should all click, and the car will shrink around you. Hope that helps!
cypriot said:
I will chime with my thoughts as well, as my brother owns a 997.2 C2S manual, and I own a v8 vantage manual AMR. I have driven both extensively, back to back on the same roads, in the same cities, and on the same tracks, so I can give you some honest comparisons.
The gearbox of the 997.2 is superior to the vantage, but that doesn't mean the vantage's is bad. The vantage does have a nice gearbox, but its not quite as precise as the 997. Clutch in the vantage is substantially heavier, which then means stop start traffic is harder in the vantage. However I would 100% recommend to do the twin plate clutch and lightweight flywheel upgrade for the vantage as this will make the clutch much lighter, and also makes the engine more responsive.
This leads onto the performance. The vantage (in 430bhp) is the quicker car, probably due to the amount of torque, but it is quicker, both on road and on track. It's not night and day, but have no concerns about the performance of the vantage. Also, due to various factors like the weight distribution, tyre sizes, torque etc, you can play with the rear axle of the vantage far more easily than in the 997, which has tremendous rear axle grip - this is not a pro or a con of either car, just a different character. The flat 6 does rev more freely than the v8, but that gap closes with the lightweight flywheel.
Now handling. The vantage is slightly stiffer than the 997 so low speed ride is better in the 997, however up the speed and the damping in the vantage can deal with bumpier roads slightly better than the 997. The vantage has a much better front end turn in, and far less understeer due to the weight distribution. Both have equally good steering feel. The brakes on the vantage (the 6 piston ones) are also stronger than than the 997, however the 997's brakes will resist fade better than the vantage - probably due to the weight advantage of the 997. The vantage does not feel its weight, and has world class balance.
In terms of drivability, you simply cannot beat a 911. visibility is fantastic, parking is a doddle, loads of luggage space and of course the rear seats. Plus cupholders!! the 997 has probably the best cup holders ever integrated in a car. Bottom line is that the 997 is the better day to day car.
In terms of specialness, you simply cannot beat the vantage. the sound, the looks, the interior, the badge. the way other people respond to the vantage is vastly superior to a 911. The vantage is simply a more special car, and you feel that specialness every time you drive it. That makes the vantage a much better weekend car.
Both are equally capable road trip cars.
As for maintenance, the aston will be more expensive by virtue of having to do annual services rather than every 2. Parts are more expensive for the vantage as well. However you will no doubt know about the common 997 issues like the condensers, coolant pipes that require engine out etc, plus the 997 is 5/6 years older than the vantage you are considering. So you could be facing big bills for the 997 to replace bushes, dampers, brake discs etc - you will know better than me what you car will need!
If you can, buy from a main dealer with the warranty. Not that much of a premium, but you will 100% need the warranty to cover items that no dealer (either independent or franchise) would have done prior to selling you the car.
obviously, go and test drive one. When you do, do not be put off by the initial impression of sitting in a bath tub with high sides and a dash that is miles away - it will feel very alien coming from the 997. But once you have had 10/15 mins behind the wheel of the vantage, it should all click, and the car will shrink around you. Hope that helps!
Yes, it really does help - thanks for taking the time to put down a lot of detail that really does provide a lot of the information I was looking for.The gearbox of the 997.2 is superior to the vantage, but that doesn't mean the vantage's is bad. The vantage does have a nice gearbox, but its not quite as precise as the 997. Clutch in the vantage is substantially heavier, which then means stop start traffic is harder in the vantage. However I would 100% recommend to do the twin plate clutch and lightweight flywheel upgrade for the vantage as this will make the clutch much lighter, and also makes the engine more responsive.
This leads onto the performance. The vantage (in 430bhp) is the quicker car, probably due to the amount of torque, but it is quicker, both on road and on track. It's not night and day, but have no concerns about the performance of the vantage. Also, due to various factors like the weight distribution, tyre sizes, torque etc, you can play with the rear axle of the vantage far more easily than in the 997, which has tremendous rear axle grip - this is not a pro or a con of either car, just a different character. The flat 6 does rev more freely than the v8, but that gap closes with the lightweight flywheel.
Now handling. The vantage is slightly stiffer than the 997 so low speed ride is better in the 997, however up the speed and the damping in the vantage can deal with bumpier roads slightly better than the 997. The vantage has a much better front end turn in, and far less understeer due to the weight distribution. Both have equally good steering feel. The brakes on the vantage (the 6 piston ones) are also stronger than than the 997, however the 997's brakes will resist fade better than the vantage - probably due to the weight advantage of the 997. The vantage does not feel its weight, and has world class balance.
In terms of drivability, you simply cannot beat a 911. visibility is fantastic, parking is a doddle, loads of luggage space and of course the rear seats. Plus cupholders!! the 997 has probably the best cup holders ever integrated in a car. Bottom line is that the 997 is the better day to day car.
In terms of specialness, you simply cannot beat the vantage. the sound, the looks, the interior, the badge. the way other people respond to the vantage is vastly superior to a 911. The vantage is simply a more special car, and you feel that specialness every time you drive it. That makes the vantage a much better weekend car.
Both are equally capable road trip cars.
As for maintenance, the aston will be more expensive by virtue of having to do annual services rather than every 2. Parts are more expensive for the vantage as well. However you will no doubt know about the common 997 issues like the condensers, coolant pipes that require engine out etc, plus the 997 is 5/6 years older than the vantage you are considering. So you could be facing big bills for the 997 to replace bushes, dampers, brake discs etc - you will know better than me what you car will need!
If you can, buy from a main dealer with the warranty. Not that much of a premium, but you will 100% need the warranty to cover items that no dealer (either independent or franchise) would have done prior to selling you the car.
obviously, go and test drive one. When you do, do not be put off by the initial impression of sitting in a bath tub with high sides and a dash that is miles away - it will feel very alien coming from the 997. But once you have had 10/15 mins behind the wheel of the vantage, it should all click, and the car will shrink around you. Hope that helps!
In terms of the 911 cup holders I hadn’t ever got round to using them! The 911 is actually quite a small car so parking is relatively easy and straightforward. Yes, the rear axle grip on the 911 is very good….as it should be with large section tyres and the weight of the engine and over that part of the car.
It’s good to hear that the vantage hides it’s weight and handling is neutral. My concern was that the car might feel “heavy” but it sounds like that isn’t the case. I’m also glad to hear the vantage isn’t significantly slower than the 911. The 911 was fast enough for me and I wanted my next car to be “as fast” as the 911. My 911 was a PDK, and gear changes were quick but I just wondered if getting a manual would give a bit more interaction and enjoyment with the car.
What items do you feel would need to be done prior to a sale that you think “no dealer would have done prior to selling”…? The main concern for me is the amount of life left in the clutch. It’s ok if it’s known to be in its way out and it’s reflected in the price of the car.
Are the catalysts a concern on the vantage? I’ve read a bit about these being an issue on some astons and bamford rose have a video on YouTube about an older Aston (not a vantage) that’s ingested material from the cats.
Getting to drive a V8S manual may be the next thing to do.
mc72 said:
Are the catalysts a concern on the vantage? I’ve read a bit about these being an issue on some astons and bamford rose have a video on YouTube about an older Aston (not a vantage) that’s ingested material from the cats.
No need for you to worry at all, m mc.
My own 4.7 Vantage is earlier than the Vantage S and does not have any catalysts in the exhaust manifolds.
After about 2010, catalysts were fitted in the V8 engine manifolds, but are far enough away from the exhaust ports, so eliminate any risk of ingestion.
The few cases of ingestion and lunged engines, have occurred on the V12 engine, not V8.
The V12 manifold cats are very close to particular exhaust ports.
mc72 said:
Yes, it really does help - thanks for taking the time to put down a lot of detail that really does provide a lot of the information I was looking for.
In terms of the 911 cup holders I hadn’t ever got round to using them! The 911 is actually quite a small car so parking is relatively easy and straightforward. Yes, the rear axle grip on the 911 is very good….as it should be with large section tyres and the weight of the engine and over that part of the car.
It’s good to hear that the vantage hides it’s weight and handling is neutral. My concern was that the car might feel “heavy” but it sounds like that isn’t the case. I’m also glad to hear the vantage isn’t significantly slower than the 911. The 911 was fast enough for me and I wanted my next car to be “as fast” as the 911. My 911 was a PDK, and gear changes were quick but I just wondered if getting a manual would give a bit more interaction and enjoyment with the car.
What items do you feel would need to be done prior to a sale that you think “no dealer would have done prior to selling”…? The main concern for me is the amount of life left in the clutch. It’s ok if it’s known to be in its way out and it’s reflected in the price of the car.
Are the catalysts a concern on the vantage? I’ve read a bit about these being an issue on some astons and bamford rose have a video on YouTube about an older Aston (not a vantage) that’s ingested material from the cats.
Getting to drive a V8S manual may be the next thing to do.
Regarding items prior to sale, there is no definitive list, but there will always be niggles that a warranty will pick up. That might be lights that don't quite work, dampers that we leaking a little... anything really! I think if its your first taste of aston ownership, then doing it in the safest possible manner is quite wise...In terms of the 911 cup holders I hadn’t ever got round to using them! The 911 is actually quite a small car so parking is relatively easy and straightforward. Yes, the rear axle grip on the 911 is very good….as it should be with large section tyres and the weight of the engine and over that part of the car.
It’s good to hear that the vantage hides it’s weight and handling is neutral. My concern was that the car might feel “heavy” but it sounds like that isn’t the case. I’m also glad to hear the vantage isn’t significantly slower than the 911. The 911 was fast enough for me and I wanted my next car to be “as fast” as the 911. My 911 was a PDK, and gear changes were quick but I just wondered if getting a manual would give a bit more interaction and enjoyment with the car.
What items do you feel would need to be done prior to a sale that you think “no dealer would have done prior to selling”…? The main concern for me is the amount of life left in the clutch. It’s ok if it’s known to be in its way out and it’s reflected in the price of the car.
Are the catalysts a concern on the vantage? I’ve read a bit about these being an issue on some astons and bamford rose have a video on YouTube about an older Aston (not a vantage) that’s ingested material from the cats.
Getting to drive a V8S manual may be the next thing to do.
Oh, one thing I forgot to mention about the manual vantage is that yes, the gear knob is in a bit of a strange position - almost too far back. The way I make it comfortable is to really stick your elbow out towards the passenger seat, basically not giving the passenger any room on the centre armrest. your passenger might not like it, but it certainly works! Enjoy the test drive!
Another post from someone who did what you are considering, quite a common progression. I had a 996 C2 and a 997.1 C2S, selling each after a couple of years before buying my early V8 Vantage S in 2016. Five and a half years later I still have the Aston, they sort of grow on you.
You want to compare specifically 911.2 C2S and V8VS. I cant comment too much on the 997.2, but other than the PDK option becoming available I guess there would have been significant evolution (its a Porsche) even with just a mid life refresh.
How is the V8S to drive, eg Power, Handling and general feel of the car?
Standard, you wouldn't notice much difference in power, the Porker perhaps a bit stronger lower down and has better transmissions, especially the PDK which requires far less driver 'education' than the quirky old F1 automated manual tech that Aston used. Power to weight slightly favour the 997. The V8VS was a significant improvement over the normal V8 Vantage, to the point where it edges the 997 on balance, steering and standard brakes especially if running PS4 tyres. Any modern Porsche will drive better than pretty much any Aston though, as a result of all that development of essentially the same concept.
Generally - the Vantage is a far more special car than the 997 (except GT3 etc), it is simply a more special place to be. The smile it will put on your face every time you sit in it, start the engine, park it up and look back at it will outweigh the irritation of yet another warning light, electrical failure, rattle or bit of trim shrinking or falling off. There's always a list of minor stuff to do with an Aston. They keep you busy!
Does the car show or hide its weight?
You will feel those extra 250 odd kilos compared the a 911, mainly in acceleration, no V8V, S included feels as fast as it should, which is in the main down to the excess weight. It is a bit of a pudding compared to the lithe 997. Thats also partly the price of handmade, high quality and bespoke componentry. Much of the running gear was developed for and is shared with the heavier, V12 powered DB9, so is over engineered and heavy for a supposed light sports car. Also, if inspecting, checkout the weight of, for example the exquisite machined from solid dry sump oil filler cap and dipstick, the solid aluminium petrol cap, the doors, or the individual bespoke switches made from glass (the list goes on, you get the drift), then imagine what they could have done if they'd actually been trying to keep the weight down
.
Things to look out for on a 5-7 yr old V8S?
Same as any car of that age. The good news is that there's nothing major. The V8 (all versions) engine and drivetrain are rock solid with none of the weaknesses that are seen with the non Mezger-engined 911s. Known Vantage issues are electric modules, door and body, tracker issues (look for warning lights), rear lights leaking water in, internal trim shrinkage from sunlight, sportshift hydraulic hoses and cam cover gasket. A real weak point in both manual and SS cars is the clutch which is an expensive replacement. While Sportshift 2 in the V8VS was an improvement over the original, it is still a manual gearbox with a clutch, albeit one with a brain controlling the clutch and a strange alien arrangement on the box making the shift. Unlike a slusher, you can't slowly reverse uphill without wrecking the clutch. I wonder how many owners have destroyed the clutch slowly reversing up their drive as they would in their other 'auto'
While I personally have always thought the Sportshift is cool and rare and genuine old F1 tech (very few cars had it, and pretty much all were exotics), and have learned to drive around its idiosyncracies (both paddles to neutral when coasting to a junction crawl or stop), it certainly aint for everyone. It is extremely fast to shift at the top end though, works well on a track, which of course is what it was designed for. Tescos car park just takes more practise...
Maintenance costs on a V8S (Noting that the servicing on the 911 was always a 4 figure amount...although every second yr)
About same as a 911. About £600 at an indy for the basics, maybe another £300-600 annually for the inevitable bits and pieces. Budget 3k for a clutch at some point though if it hasn't recently been done, and keep another 1-2k float ready for unforeseen stuff, maybe new rear light assembly or an electrical module.
What differences will I notice between the 911 and the V8S?
That people will stop assuming you are a c*** - joking aside, the Aston is bespoke, quirky, lots of money spent by Aston on strange things on the car, other things not properly finished or developed. The Porsche is much more of a fully developed product, it feels like the finished article, though it has suffered from 'value engineering' e.g of engine components. Essentially, both cars feel like what they actually are. As a sports car, the Aston is not quite as good as the 997 in most subjective areas - but the Aston just feels so much better as a thing to own and a place to be. Its more of an occasion car.
Is the premium for Aston Main Main Dealer cars worth it due to the warranty? And can the warranty be added to a second hand V8S following purchase (From outwith main dealer network?), and what is the cost?
Yes then no. The AM timeless warranty will only come with a dealer supplied car. As the specialist vendors ask the same prices - I’d go to a main dealer, and recommend HWM.
From personal experience - there’s no such thing as a cheap Aston. Buy the very best you can afford. Look at top of market, not bottom.
I am undecided between manual and auto, but swaying more towards a manual than auto. How is the auto as there are conflicting reports in reviews of the V8S with the 7 sp auto box.
You should take both for an extended test drive. Its personal preference. Just don't think that the sportshift will be anything like an auto slusher or a double clutch auto (PDK, DCT) - it isnt - it is a robotised manual. You can learn to use it, but it takes time.
The S already has a 7 speed box, lifted interior and exterior, wider wheels, quicker steering, bigger disks, 6-pot calipers, valved manifold and ability to get more from quality fuel - but If you have the budget, there are some subtle modifications you can make to the V8VS to get it perfect - these are a twin plate (not double clutch) clutch from the V12, lightened flywheel, switchable Bilsteins. You can also fit higher quality stainless manifolds and motorsport cats to make it breathe a little better which in conjunction with a remap will get a V8VS to about 455hp - this is the spec of my car which has a long history on this very forum as mapped by its 1st owner. In this spec the V8VS is way quicker than a 997.1 C2S and I suspect quicker than 997.2 around a track. However, if speed is your ultimate thing, and it has to be a Porker or a Vantage I'd suggest you save up a little longer and go for a 911 turbo or V12VS
You want to compare specifically 911.2 C2S and V8VS. I cant comment too much on the 997.2, but other than the PDK option becoming available I guess there would have been significant evolution (its a Porsche) even with just a mid life refresh.
How is the V8S to drive, eg Power, Handling and general feel of the car?
Standard, you wouldn't notice much difference in power, the Porker perhaps a bit stronger lower down and has better transmissions, especially the PDK which requires far less driver 'education' than the quirky old F1 automated manual tech that Aston used. Power to weight slightly favour the 997. The V8VS was a significant improvement over the normal V8 Vantage, to the point where it edges the 997 on balance, steering and standard brakes especially if running PS4 tyres. Any modern Porsche will drive better than pretty much any Aston though, as a result of all that development of essentially the same concept.
Generally - the Vantage is a far more special car than the 997 (except GT3 etc), it is simply a more special place to be. The smile it will put on your face every time you sit in it, start the engine, park it up and look back at it will outweigh the irritation of yet another warning light, electrical failure, rattle or bit of trim shrinking or falling off. There's always a list of minor stuff to do with an Aston. They keep you busy!
Does the car show or hide its weight?
You will feel those extra 250 odd kilos compared the a 911, mainly in acceleration, no V8V, S included feels as fast as it should, which is in the main down to the excess weight. It is a bit of a pudding compared to the lithe 997. Thats also partly the price of handmade, high quality and bespoke componentry. Much of the running gear was developed for and is shared with the heavier, V12 powered DB9, so is over engineered and heavy for a supposed light sports car. Also, if inspecting, checkout the weight of, for example the exquisite machined from solid dry sump oil filler cap and dipstick, the solid aluminium petrol cap, the doors, or the individual bespoke switches made from glass (the list goes on, you get the drift), then imagine what they could have done if they'd actually been trying to keep the weight down
.Things to look out for on a 5-7 yr old V8S?
Same as any car of that age. The good news is that there's nothing major. The V8 (all versions) engine and drivetrain are rock solid with none of the weaknesses that are seen with the non Mezger-engined 911s. Known Vantage issues are electric modules, door and body, tracker issues (look for warning lights), rear lights leaking water in, internal trim shrinkage from sunlight, sportshift hydraulic hoses and cam cover gasket. A real weak point in both manual and SS cars is the clutch which is an expensive replacement. While Sportshift 2 in the V8VS was an improvement over the original, it is still a manual gearbox with a clutch, albeit one with a brain controlling the clutch and a strange alien arrangement on the box making the shift. Unlike a slusher, you can't slowly reverse uphill without wrecking the clutch. I wonder how many owners have destroyed the clutch slowly reversing up their drive as they would in their other 'auto'
While I personally have always thought the Sportshift is cool and rare and genuine old F1 tech (very few cars had it, and pretty much all were exotics), and have learned to drive around its idiosyncracies (both paddles to neutral when coasting to a junction crawl or stop), it certainly aint for everyone. It is extremely fast to shift at the top end though, works well on a track, which of course is what it was designed for. Tescos car park just takes more practise...
Maintenance costs on a V8S (Noting that the servicing on the 911 was always a 4 figure amount...although every second yr)
About same as a 911. About £600 at an indy for the basics, maybe another £300-600 annually for the inevitable bits and pieces. Budget 3k for a clutch at some point though if it hasn't recently been done, and keep another 1-2k float ready for unforeseen stuff, maybe new rear light assembly or an electrical module.
What differences will I notice between the 911 and the V8S?
That people will stop assuming you are a c***
- joking aside, the Aston is bespoke, quirky, lots of money spent by Aston on strange things on the car, other things not properly finished or developed. The Porsche is much more of a fully developed product, it feels like the finished article, though it has suffered from 'value engineering' e.g of engine components. Essentially, both cars feel like what they actually are. As a sports car, the Aston is not quite as good as the 997 in most subjective areas - but the Aston just feels so much better as a thing to own and a place to be. Its more of an occasion car. Is the premium for Aston Main Main Dealer cars worth it due to the warranty? And can the warranty be added to a second hand V8S following purchase (From outwith main dealer network?), and what is the cost?
Yes then no. The AM timeless warranty will only come with a dealer supplied car. As the specialist vendors ask the same prices - I’d go to a main dealer, and recommend HWM.
From personal experience - there’s no such thing as a cheap Aston. Buy the very best you can afford. Look at top of market, not bottom.
I am undecided between manual and auto, but swaying more towards a manual than auto. How is the auto as there are conflicting reports in reviews of the V8S with the 7 sp auto box.
You should take both for an extended test drive. Its personal preference. Just don't think that the sportshift will be anything like an auto slusher or a double clutch auto (PDK, DCT) - it isnt - it is a robotised manual. You can learn to use it, but it takes time.
The S already has a 7 speed box, lifted interior and exterior, wider wheels, quicker steering, bigger disks, 6-pot calipers, valved manifold and ability to get more from quality fuel - but If you have the budget, there are some subtle modifications you can make to the V8VS to get it perfect - these are a twin plate (not double clutch) clutch from the V12, lightened flywheel, switchable Bilsteins. You can also fit higher quality stainless manifolds and motorsport cats to make it breathe a little better which in conjunction with a remap will get a V8VS to about 455hp - this is the spec of my car which has a long history on this very forum as mapped by its 1st owner. In this spec the V8VS is way quicker than a 997.1 C2S and I suspect quicker than 997.2 around a track. However, if speed is your ultimate thing, and it has to be a Porker or a Vantage I'd suggest you save up a little longer and go for a 911 turbo or V12VS
Edited by Calinours on Tuesday 21st December 21:13
Just to add to some of the posts - Calinours in particular.
I went from a series of 911’s ( 997.2 ‘s - both 2S and 4S ) to a V8S ( SP 10 model ) and also had a GT3 at the same time but not going to compare to that.
Whether the driving experience , the reactions , the looks , the main dealer service and overall attention , simply no comparison and Aston wins outright.
Personally would go manual and main dealer and if budget allows also consider automated manual V12S which is what I then changed mine for.
However I also still have my V8 in the guise of a GT8 which I also specced from new and will never sell.
You will get niggles with Aston and mine have always been either new or under warranty so not an issue as such although some were irritating such as fuel flap lid not closing and thermostat issues.
That said my 911 GT3 needed a new starter motor and clutch sensor within first 1000 miles.
Both my SP10 and V12S were used as daily’s.
Enjoy test drives and good luck with decision but not one to regret if you move to Aston.
I went from a series of 911’s ( 997.2 ‘s - both 2S and 4S ) to a V8S ( SP 10 model ) and also had a GT3 at the same time but not going to compare to that.
Whether the driving experience , the reactions , the looks , the main dealer service and overall attention , simply no comparison and Aston wins outright.
Personally would go manual and main dealer and if budget allows also consider automated manual V12S which is what I then changed mine for.
However I also still have my V8 in the guise of a GT8 which I also specced from new and will never sell.
You will get niggles with Aston and mine have always been either new or under warranty so not an issue as such although some were irritating such as fuel flap lid not closing and thermostat issues.
That said my 911 GT3 needed a new starter motor and clutch sensor within first 1000 miles.
Both my SP10 and V12S were used as daily’s.
Enjoy test drives and good luck with decision but not one to regret if you move to Aston.
Gassing Station | Aston Martin | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff