Aston Martin and hydrogen

[LasseV]

Aston Martin and zero emission future.

https://carbuzz.com/news/aston-martin-could-use-fe...

https://www.drive.com.au/news/electrification-not-...

They are not that keen about battery electric cars.

I'm not in position to buy AM, but i do like GT cars and i would prefer hydrogen over BEV. I think hydrogen is much better fit for long GT cars because of lighter weight, longer range and fast refuel.

Upcoming Hopium Machina is one example of hydrogen GT car:
https://www.hopium.com/?msclkid=449b30aab89711eca8...

What is your opinion in this matter? What you think what is the best solution for Aston Martin?

[Guycord]

This to me has been the way to go.

Minimises the biggest issue which is rare earth elements (achieves power density in motors) and effectively solves range and distribution issues. (there is no way we can install cables/charge points to every house, office and parking lot.

If we must have bird mincers, then rather than try and store the excess power generated at low demand times (00:00 to 06:00), we could easily generate green hydrogen (electrolysis).

The energy density of H2 is at least 3 times anything else. I'd have to look it up, but I would also think it has a one of the fastest oxidisation-burn rates.

[Jon39]

I am certainly not a chemistry expert, but I have heard comment that the production of hydrogen in commercial quantities, is extremely energy intensive.

Hydrogen does appear a good replacement for petrol (much cleaner emissions), but is the creation aspect the point which gives electricity such an advantage ?

The disposal of huge quantities of batteries, when they all begin to fail after 10 years old is, as politicians say, my successors problem.

[Guycord]

Jon39 said:

I am certainly not a chemistry expert, but I have heard comment that the production of hydrogen in commercial quantities, is extremely energy intensive.

Hydrogen does appear a good replacement for petrol (much cleaner emissions), but is the creation aspect the point which gives electricity such an advantage ?

The disposal of huge quantities of batteries, when they all begin to fail after 10 years old is, as politicians say, my successors problem.

Yes it is energy intensive. You are reducing hydrogen from oxygen (de-oxidizing). However, that would be the attraction. Energy/electricity which is generated from the bird mincers at night while people sleep could be wired to hydrolysis kits all across the country (Petrol stations if you like) and stored. This power would be wasted anyway or go into very expensive industrial storage batteries – which again have a service life.

I believe a typical domestic home (need to check) typically consumes 9-11 kWhr/day and the electrical systems are designed for this since year dot. However, new houses will need x2 to x3 of that capability to accommodate for 1 or 2 EV cars for Mr & Mrs Smith. Think of the cable, the uprooting of roads etc…for this capacity. Were going to need HT power lines everywhere to cut losses. It aint going to happen.

Another thing is this:- My domestic electricity cost has just gone up 60% whereas petrol has gone up near 40%. Non-domestic electricity ??? How does that compute for charging EVs per mile?

Anyone got any precise numbers than this on my general speculation?

[Guycord]

Addendum.

Astons will still sound like Astons with Hydrogen Combustion. What's an E-Aston going to be like?

[Phil74891]

As a hydrogen thicko (grade 2 CSE Chemistry) I found this to be very informative:

https://www2.deloitte.com/uk/en/focus/climate-chan...

[runner911]

This is interesting .

https://www.whichcar.com.au/news/porsche-invests-i...

[Wayne95]

Guycord said:

Yes it is energy intensive. You are reducing hydrogen from oxygen (de-oxidizing). However, that would be the attraction. Energy/electricity which is generated from the bird mincers at night while people sleep could be wired to hydrolysis kits all across the country (Petrol stations if you like) and stored. This power would be wasted anyway or go into very expensive industrial storage batteries – which again have a service life.

I believe a typical domestic home (need to check) typically consumes 9-11 kWhr/day and the electrical systems are designed for this since year dot. However, new houses will need x2 to x3 of that capability to accommodate for 1 or 2 EV cars for Mr & Mrs Smith. Think of the cable, the uprooting of roads etc…for this capacity. Were going to need HT power lines everywhere to cut losses. It aint going to happen.

Another thing is this:- My domestic electricity cost has just gone up 60% whereas petrol has gone up near 40%. Non-domestic electricity ??? How does that compute for charging EVs per mile?

Anyone got any precise numbers than this on my general speculation?

I have an I-pace for the daily , used to charge on octopus Agile tariff which was around 8p per kWh at night. Since the crazy time, it no longer drops at night (and when there’s 1 million EV charging that’s going to limit night time savings) so it’s now about 35p 400% increase .

Jag uses 320 w/ mile , so about 12p per mile.
My vantage does 25 mpg average , so about 30 ppm.

My diesel does 40 mpg, so about 20 ppm.

Electric much more expensive than it was , but still cheaper the fuel.

Of course, the now legal requirements for smart chargers is planning for taxing car charging , so in the future it will not be cheaper , but maybe cleaner at point of use.

[anonymous-user]

Guycord said:

If we must have bird mincers,

I’m not enthusiastic about EVs, and would rather have cars that run on hydrogen or synthetic fuel in my future.

But please stop using “bird mincers”. It makes you sound like a Donald Trump wannabe and by extension smears others in your camp.

[Guycord]

BlackWidow13 said:

Guycord said:

If we must have bird mincers,

I’m not enthusiastic about EVs, and would rather have cars that run on hydrogen or synthetic fuel in my future.

But please stop using “bird mincers”. It makes you sound like a Donald Trump wannabe and by extension smears others in your camp.

https://www.businessinsider.com/wind-farm-company-admits-150-eagle-deaths-fined-8-million-2022-4

Bird mincers. Now move along and virtue signal else where

[anonymous-user]

Guycord said:

virtue signal

Oh. You actually are a Trump wannabe. Awkward.

You know that the opposite of virtue signalling is “showing off that you’re a bit of a berk”, right?

[M1AGM]

Wayne95 said:

Guycord said:

Yes it is energy intensive. You are reducing hydrogen from oxygen (de-oxidizing). However, that would be the attraction. Energy/electricity which is generated from the bird mincers at night while people sleep could be wired to hydrolysis kits all across the country (Petrol stations if you like) and stored. This power would be wasted anyway or go into very expensive industrial storage batteries – which again have a service life.

I believe a typical domestic home (need to check) typically consumes 9-11 kWhr/day and the electrical systems are designed for this since year dot. However, new houses will need x2 to x3 of that capability to accommodate for 1 or 2 EV cars for Mr & Mrs Smith. Think of the cable, the uprooting of roads etc…for this capacity. Were going to need HT power lines everywhere to cut losses. It aint going to happen.

Another thing is this:- My domestic electricity cost has just gone up 60% whereas petrol has gone up near 40%. Non-domestic electricity ??? How does that compute for charging EVs per mile?

Anyone got any precise numbers than this on my general speculation?

I have an I-pace for the daily , used to charge on octopus Agile tariff which was around 8p per kWh at night. Since the crazy time, it no longer drops at night (and when there’s 1 million EV charging that’s going to limit night time savings) so it’s now about 35p 400% increase .

Jag uses 320 w/ mile , so about 12p per mile.
My vantage does 25 mpg average , so about 30 ppm.

My diesel does 40 mpg, so about 20 ppm.

Electric much more expensive than it was , but still cheaper the fuel.

Of course, the now legal requirements for smart chargers is planning for taxing car charging , so in the future it will not be cheaper , but maybe cleaner at point of use.

I thought Agile has gone to 8p off peak and 38p rest of the time? Has the off peak gone completely?

I run 2 Merc EVs and they were about 8p a mile when electricity was 20p a kwh, now at 28p I agree it looks like around 12p a mile. I’m fortunate to have invested in 9kw of solar PV and a couple of powerwalls, and by choosing to charge when its sunny (no commuting required, although the school run screws it up) I can fill the cars with a lot of ‘free’ electric, so cost per mile is around half at 6p. However, the range is a huge problem, both cars will only do around 200 miles on a full charge despite the marketing (EQA and EQC). So next week we are flying from Manchester which is a 95 mile trip each way, very likely we will have to stop to top up on the return leg at some crazy kwh price, and there’s no charging at the airport (which is nuts as it’s something I’d happily pay a premium for to not have the range anxiety when we get back).

[KernowShep]

M1AGM said:

So next week we are flying from Manchester which is a 95 mile trip each way, very likely we will have to stop to top up on the return leg at some crazy kwh price, and there’s no charging at the airport (which is nuts as it’s something I’d happily pay a premium for to not have the range anxiety when we get back).

You could try one of the meet and greet companies, the one I've just used from Gatwick had an EV charging option.

[AdamV12V]

Not really sure the cost of the fuel is the issue when it comes down to cars / marques such as Aston Martin. Who cares if its 5p a mile or £5 a mile, its about the pleasure of driving them, and EV's are dull dull dull. Even if I got paid x p/mile I wouldn't be in the slightest bit interested in owning one, in fact you could give me the EV car too and I still wouldn't drive it.

[AstonV]

https://dailycaller.com/2022/04/07/california-elec...

[David W.]

M1AGM said:

I thought Agile has gone to 8p off peak and 38p rest of the time? Has the off peak gone completely?

I run 2 Merc EVs and they were about 8p a mile when electricity was 20p a kwh, now at 28p I agree it looks like around 12p a mile. I’m fortunate to have invested in 9kw of solar PV and a couple of powerwalls, and by choosing to charge when its sunny (no commuting required, although the school run screws it up) I can fill the cars with a lot of ‘free’ electric, so cost per mile is around half at 6p. However, the range is a huge problem, both cars will only do around 200 miles on a full charge despite the marketing (EQA and EQC). So next week we are flying from Manchester which is a 95 mile trip each way, very likely we will have to stop to top up on the return leg at some crazy kwh price, and there’s no charging at the airport (which is nuts as it’s something I’d happily pay a premium for to not have the range anxiety when we get back).

I’m guessing your solar and P wall investment needs funding or depreciating so this should be added to you cost per mile?

[Dewi 2]

I too am hoping for an alternative to EV.

Remember the government pressure to use diesel engines. As they told us it was cleaner, we watched black smoke coming from exhaust pipes. Now governments are very keen on EVs. They did not catch me the first time, so I am suspicious again.

When I heard about the 8 year old Mercedes-Benz E-Class hybrid which had to be scrapped, it put me off buying any £50,000 electric cars.

It seems that you cannot even continue driving using the petrol engine after the battery pack failed. Cost of battery pack failure exceeded the vehicle value.

There seem to be too many uncertainties about electric power for mass road transport.

[dbs2000]

Sadly at this moment in time hydrogen makes zero sense in domestic applications, its so energy intensive to produce on that kind of scale. If I were a betting man Id think commercial is viable, the crossover being where so many batteries are needed in things like HGVs, Ships and Planes the weight alone would be inefficient. Maybe after commercial it'll move to domestic.

We have a pretty large test going on in NL where excess solar and wind is being converted into hydrogen and stored, it's then used at night so it'll be interesting to see how that progresses.

It an interesting space though, I think hydrogen might have a better use case in domestic heating but the creation problem still exists, it's one I hope they can sort out.

Edited by dbs2000 on Monday 11th April 09:15

[M1AGM]

Dewi 2 said:

I too am hoping for an alternative to EV.

Remember the government pressure to use diesel engines. As they told us it was cleaner, we watched black smoke coming from exhaust pipes. Now governments are very keen on EVs. They did not catch me the first time, so I am suspicious again.

When I heard about the 8 year old Mercedes-Benz E-Class hybrid which had to be scrapped, it put me off buying any £50,000 electric cars.

It seems that you cannot even continue driving using the petrol engine after the battery pack failed. Cost of battery pack failure exceeded the vehicle value.

There seem to be too many uncertainties about electric power for mass road transport.

I would not buy an electric or hybrid car at the moment for those reasons, lease only.

[dbs2000]

M1AGM said:

I would not buy an electric or hybrid car at the moment for those reasons, lease only.

It'd consider a Porsche but given Tesla don't sell parts to us plebs, there is no way I'd buy my Model 3 at the end of lease. At lease with Fords, Porkers, VW / Audi they'll have a dealer network and hopefully not close their supply chain.