DB11 V12 issue
Discussion
I've had my DB11 for four years now and it's been very reliable. However a couple of years ago, the EML light came on and the problem was water ingress through the inner bonnet vents from rain or a hose which lay in the cylinder banks. Six plugs and coil packs were replaced under warranty and a factory modification plate was fitted to these two vents, to try to rectify this. I still experienced problems with the EML but once the water evaporated, it cleared itself.
Last week, it came back on and the problems is-wait for it- rust on the other cylinder bank and indeed, rust inside the nearest spark plug hole to the scuttle!
Cost to sort just under £1500 to include six coil packs and spark plugs. The car is out of warranty now and the dealer is talking to AML about this, but this seems like a design fault? I never pressure wash, either the engine or the car and make sure the hose faces away from the vents.
Has any other V12 owner experienced this? I'd welcome your comments.
Last week, it came back on and the problems is-wait for it- rust on the other cylinder bank and indeed, rust inside the nearest spark plug hole to the scuttle!
Cost to sort just under £1500 to include six coil packs and spark plugs. The car is out of warranty now and the dealer is talking to AML about this, but this seems like a design fault? I never pressure wash, either the engine or the car and make sure the hose faces away from the vents.
Has any other V12 owner experienced this? I'd welcome your comments.
Thanks for replying.
The car is garaged all the time. Water is getting in when it rains while out and when I wash the car. As I say, when this started back in 2020, the car was out of warranty, but the dealer said there was a modification plate for the inner vents to stop this occurring, and they also replaced the other cylinder bank six coils and plugs. That says to me design fault. The plates made it better but the EML still comes on very intermittently, either when driving in the rain, or after washing it, then driving. I purposefully ensure the hose is pointed away from the vents, but some water is going to get through. I suspect if the inner vents weren't fitted, the problem wouldn't exist as the cylinder banks are more or less under them. The video they sent me intimates the EML is coming on because of the rust in the plug holes.
I'm more than happy to pay for wear and tear items, but this seems to be caused by a design issue, imo.
The car is garaged all the time. Water is getting in when it rains while out and when I wash the car. As I say, when this started back in 2020, the car was out of warranty, but the dealer said there was a modification plate for the inner vents to stop this occurring, and they also replaced the other cylinder bank six coils and plugs. That says to me design fault. The plates made it better but the EML still comes on very intermittently, either when driving in the rain, or after washing it, then driving. I purposefully ensure the hose is pointed away from the vents, but some water is going to get through. I suspect if the inner vents weren't fitted, the problem wouldn't exist as the cylinder banks are more or less under them. The video they sent me intimates the EML is coming on because of the rust in the plug holes.
I'm more than happy to pay for wear and tear items, but this seems to be caused by a design issue, imo.
Octavarium said:
No such issues with my V8 DB11. It gets washed frequently and because of the amount of dirt that gathers under the bonnet between the headlight housing and the side vents, this gets a good clean too, but I have never noticed any unwanted water ingress below the bonnet vents.
Thanks for the replies. Maybe because it's a different engine/design. Mines a MY2017 too, to answer the other post.I had never noticed the water ingress, because of the black covers over the two cylinder banks/coil packs. The banks create a natural channel for the water to sit in. As I say, there's rust marks the whole length of the LH cylinder block as you look from the front. Water shouldn't be entering into the spark plug holes either? Surely these should be water tight?
I'm waiting for the dealer to report back after speaking to AML and hoping for a common sense approach.
Octavarium said:
No such issues with my V8 DB11. It gets washed frequently and because of the amount of dirt that gathers under the bonnet between the headlight housing and the side vents, this gets a good clean too, but I have never noticed any unwanted water ingress below the bonnet vents.
To be fair, the V8 DB11 doesn't have the centre vents in the bonnet, just the outer pair. The reason for this being the need to get cooling air from the grille to the "hot-V" turbos - which is why if you look under the bonnet of a V8 DB11 there is a deflector covered in silver heat-protection mounted to the underside of the bonnet about half-way back to aim the incoming cool air at the turbos.I had MY2017 and bonnet plates and all the plugs were changed under warranty as dealer said it was a design fault and they were replacing these parts for the cars coming into the workshop at the time probably mid 2019.
I didn't notice any sign of water ingress visually or any warning lights though. Mine lived outside mostly.
I didn't notice any sign of water ingress visually or any warning lights though. Mine lived outside mostly.
I have a MY19 Vantage and had the same issue with water sitting and infiltrating the ignition coils. I do not have any vents in my hood.
My car is 3 1/2 years old and 7000 miles. Always garaged. Brought it to the dealer( Miller Motorscars) three weeks ago after a check engine light went on. For the first 2 1/2 weeks I got nowhere. Aston denied the claim claiming it was “ water ingress”….voila…not covered! They also claimed they had nothing to with the warranty since the Timeless Warranty is not actually an Aston product and they have no control over the claims process. A number of calls to Aston went ignored. This experience clearly means I will never buy another Aston product again.
The quote for the repair was about $5000 US. I told the dealer I would cover it, well..because I had no choice in the short term.
The day before I was to pick up the car, the dealer notified me that the made the problem go away. It was certainly no thanks to Aston corporate or any Aston employee.
They really don’t have a good explanation of how specifically the the water gets in but they did say it will sit in an inopportune place if it does and destroy the coils and plugs. It’s also not the first time they have seen this problem. Wasn’t clear to me why the heat of the engine doesn’t evaporate the water worst case. Unfortunately I have no real confidence it won’t happen again. Seems like a pretty flawed design.
My car is 3 1/2 years old and 7000 miles. Always garaged. Brought it to the dealer( Miller Motorscars) three weeks ago after a check engine light went on. For the first 2 1/2 weeks I got nowhere. Aston denied the claim claiming it was “ water ingress”….voila…not covered! They also claimed they had nothing to with the warranty since the Timeless Warranty is not actually an Aston product and they have no control over the claims process. A number of calls to Aston went ignored. This experience clearly means I will never buy another Aston product again.
The quote for the repair was about $5000 US. I told the dealer I would cover it, well..because I had no choice in the short term.
The day before I was to pick up the car, the dealer notified me that the made the problem go away. It was certainly no thanks to Aston corporate or any Aston employee.
They really don’t have a good explanation of how specifically the the water gets in but they did say it will sit in an inopportune place if it does and destroy the coils and plugs. It’s also not the first time they have seen this problem. Wasn’t clear to me why the heat of the engine doesn’t evaporate the water worst case. Unfortunately I have no real confidence it won’t happen again. Seems like a pretty flawed design.
Edited by GreasyHands on Saturday 11th June 01:09
There was a modification ( service action) to the V12 bonnet vents to cover water ingress, for example… (this is version 2)
https://static.oemdtc.com/TSB/MC-10161681-9999.pdf
Check if your car has been modified
https://static.oemdtc.com/TSB/MC-10161681-9999.pdf
Check if your car has been modified
Edited by Grant3 on Saturday 11th June 23:29
I would like to see the routing of the "breather pipe for the spark plug cavity" as with the shield installed, it would appear the negative pressure from that area is sucking up the water into the cavity. It appears a very similar situation to another vehicle (BMW V8) that fills the spark plug wells up with oil when the camcover gaskets weep.
I would suggest installing the shield and maybe modifying the routing of the breather pipe could prove to be a permanent solution.
If the reason is indeed the vacuum sucking up the water as the engine cools, this would explain why the heat from the engine does not clear it. It probably does boil it off in use, but then sucks it back up when cold.
I would suggest installing the shield and maybe modifying the routing of the breather pipe could prove to be a permanent solution.
If the reason is indeed the vacuum sucking up the water as the engine cools, this would explain why the heat from the engine does not clear it. It probably does boil it off in use, but then sucks it back up when cold.
Grant3 said:
There was a modification ( service action) to the V12 bonnet vents to cover water ingress, for example… (this is version 2)
https://static.oemdtc.com/TSB/MC-10161681-9999.pdf
Check if your car has been modified ??
Do you know if DBSS is affected by the same issue ? https://static.oemdtc.com/TSB/MC-10161681-9999.pdf
Check if your car has been modified ??
silverspeed said:
Do you know if DBSS is affected by the same issue ?
As a newer design I don’t believe the DBS is affected by this issue, but there was a splash shield modification for the alternator https://static.nhtsa.gov/odi/tsbs/2019/MC-10159850...
[quote=funboxster]I've had my DB11 for four years now and it's been very reliable. However a couple of years ago, the EML light came on and the problem was water ingress through the inner bonnet vents from rain or a hose which lay in the cylinder banks. Six plugs and coil packs were replaced under warranty and a factory modification plate was fitted to these two vents, to try to rectify this. I still experienced problems with the EML but once the water evaporated, it cleared itself.
Last week, it came back on and the problems is-wait for it- rust on the other cylinder bank and indeed, rust inside the nearest spark plug hole to the scuttle!
Cost to sort just under £1500 to include six coil packs and spark plugs. The car is out of warranty now and the dealer is talking to AML about this, but this seems like a design fault? I never pressure wash, either the engine or the car and make sure the hose faces away from the vents.
Has any other V12 owner experienced this? I'd welcome your comments.
So, the postscript to this story is as follows- My local dealer dropped the price from £1500 to £602 inc VAT, as they received a 25% goodwill payment from AML for replacing the six coil packs and their labour. I supplied the correct NGK spark plugs. I got six for £78 against AML supplying them for-wait for it- £264.06, so total bill of £680. I advised the dealer I wanted to write to AML client services and sent the dealer a copy of my letter first, before submission, which they were happy with.
Yesterday, a chap from client services rang, to more or less admit, the modified shields fitted in 2019 will not stop water ingress. He suggested(honestly) don't wash the bonnet using a hose or to make up two perspex type templates to fit on the vents each time I wash the car. I said this was a £190k car when new and I can't believe you're saying this. He said that if I had had an AML warranty, although it wouldn't cover this sort of thing, they might have considered increasing their goodwill payment. You couldn't make it up!!
Last week, it came back on and the problems is-wait for it- rust on the other cylinder bank and indeed, rust inside the nearest spark plug hole to the scuttle!
Cost to sort just under £1500 to include six coil packs and spark plugs. The car is out of warranty now and the dealer is talking to AML about this, but this seems like a design fault? I never pressure wash, either the engine or the car and make sure the hose faces away from the vents.
Has any other V12 owner experienced this? I'd welcome your comments.
So, the postscript to this story is as follows- My local dealer dropped the price from £1500 to £602 inc VAT, as they received a 25% goodwill payment from AML for replacing the six coil packs and their labour. I supplied the correct NGK spark plugs. I got six for £78 against AML supplying them for-wait for it- £264.06, so total bill of £680. I advised the dealer I wanted to write to AML client services and sent the dealer a copy of my letter first, before submission, which they were happy with.
Yesterday, a chap from client services rang, to more or less admit, the modified shields fitted in 2019 will not stop water ingress. He suggested(honestly) don't wash the bonnet using a hose or to make up two perspex type templates to fit on the vents each time I wash the car. I said this was a £190k car when new and I can't believe you're saying this. He said that if I had had an AML warranty, although it wouldn't cover this sort of thing, they might have considered increasing their goodwill payment. You couldn't make it up!!
funboxster said:
'the modified shields fitted in 2019 will not stop water ingress.'
Not much of a modification then really! Too busy cutting sexy holes in the bonnet without thinking of the consequences.I don't think customers should be paying to cover a design fault, especially after the first manufacturer fix failed.
On spark plugs, it reminds me of the Aston independent who wanted to charge me £288 for six plugs - to fix a gearbox problem
[quote=Simpo Two]
Not much of a modification then really! Too busy cutting sexy holes in the bonnet without thinking of the consequences.
I don't think customers should be paying to cover a design fault, especially after the first manufacturer fix failed.
That was my point exactly! Not fit for purpose, so could come under CRA 2105. In trying to cool the V12, they've created another problem.
I told the guy from client services, let's see what happens in three years time. He said we've had very few examples of this happening(well he would)
Not much of a modification then really! Too busy cutting sexy holes in the bonnet without thinking of the consequences.
I don't think customers should be paying to cover a design fault, especially after the first manufacturer fix failed.
That was my point exactly! Not fit for purpose, so could come under CRA 2105. In trying to cool the V12, they've created another problem.
I told the guy from client services, let's see what happens in three years time. He said we've had very few examples of this happening(well he would)
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