Finishing With My Extended Warranty
Discussion
I have had my 2014 V12 Vantage S since 2019 and since then it has always had the extended warranty, the guy i bought it from (private purchase) sold it to me with 11.5 months left on the warranty and i kept it up to date until now, re-newal date is end of July but im not keeping it going. When i had my first service i was told that the ASM pipes were cracked but not too bad and that they would be changed under warranty at the next service/warranty extention inspection, so i waited for the next warranty inpsection only to be told theyre not as bad, as the guy who inspected it to be made out to be. Last year i got the same response, bearing in mind i have only had two claims on the warranty in my ownership and that was a bad experiense with the dealer, corrosion on the door mirror arms (common problem) and a small bit of corrosion on some chassis box section, which eventually after THREE visits was sorted to an acceptable standard.
Fast forward to this year and taking a much deeper view on having to pay over £2300 each year for a warranty, that i was basically told by the main dealer, a claim can only be made when something breaks or stops working and not if it looks like its going to break or it hasnt stopped the car working yet, i decided to stop paying for the warranty this year, however before i did i decided to get it independently inspected, fully inspected.
I received a full and proper inspection done at an AM indie and got a 4 page report on what was found:
Very badly cracked ASM pipes.
Washer bottle leaking.
Door mirrors very slow to open/close and noisy, possible gears not meshing.
Satnav very slow to open/close, possible gears not meshing.
Anti squeak tape on rear hatch door peeling.
The main dealer was called up and was told that the car needed warranty work done so booked the car in, when the car went to the dealer they were told what the list of issues were and they they immediately tried to fight them off by saying that door mirrors were trim and not included, sat nav was trim. They were told to FRO theyre not trim but mirrors are bodywork and satnav is infotainment, they finally agreed. They asked is the ASM pipes were seen by myself, i toild them an independent inspection had been carried out and they had told me they are in a dangerous condition and could fail at any time, rendering a very expensive call out from Warranty if they failed whilst i was driving, they said they wpould check the condition, they did and agreed to get them changed. Washer bottle was found to be cracked at the top of the neck and agreed to change it.
The mirrors now work silently, as they should, i hadnt realised the noise as i they were like that when i bought the car and thought it was normal.
The Satnav had a new set of gears fitted and now opens and closes lovely, as it should.
Washer bottle stopped leaking.
ASM pipework changed too, should last another 3 or 4 years.
All in all nearly £2000 worth of work has just been completed, i am also dropping out of the main dealer servicing too as i have had a very bad experience last year with crap customer service, so the car will be going to the AM Indie at the end of this month for service and MOT.
Apparently the ASM pipes cracking are a very common occurrence for the V12 as the pipes are made of s
t rubber, not sure on the V8 but its something you need to get inspected regularly, or at least once a year.
Fast forward to this year and taking a much deeper view on having to pay over £2300 each year for a warranty, that i was basically told by the main dealer, a claim can only be made when something breaks or stops working and not if it looks like its going to break or it hasnt stopped the car working yet, i decided to stop paying for the warranty this year, however before i did i decided to get it independently inspected, fully inspected.
I received a full and proper inspection done at an AM indie and got a 4 page report on what was found:
Very badly cracked ASM pipes.
Washer bottle leaking.
Door mirrors very slow to open/close and noisy, possible gears not meshing.
Satnav very slow to open/close, possible gears not meshing.
Anti squeak tape on rear hatch door peeling.
The main dealer was called up and was told that the car needed warranty work done so booked the car in, when the car went to the dealer they were told what the list of issues were and they they immediately tried to fight them off by saying that door mirrors were trim and not included, sat nav was trim. They were told to FRO theyre not trim but mirrors are bodywork and satnav is infotainment, they finally agreed. They asked is the ASM pipes were seen by myself, i toild them an independent inspection had been carried out and they had told me they are in a dangerous condition and could fail at any time, rendering a very expensive call out from Warranty if they failed whilst i was driving, they said they wpould check the condition, they did and agreed to get them changed. Washer bottle was found to be cracked at the top of the neck and agreed to change it.
The mirrors now work silently, as they should, i hadnt realised the noise as i they were like that when i bought the car and thought it was normal.
The Satnav had a new set of gears fitted and now opens and closes lovely, as it should.
Washer bottle stopped leaking.
ASM pipework changed too, should last another 3 or 4 years.
All in all nearly £2000 worth of work has just been completed, i am also dropping out of the main dealer servicing too as i have had a very bad experience last year with crap customer service, so the car will be going to the AM Indie at the end of this month for service and MOT.
Apparently the ASM pipes cracking are a very common occurrence for the V12 as the pipes are made of s
t rubber, not sure on the V8 but its something you need to get inspected regularly, or at least once a year.DAE sell some upgraded ASM pipes. I was told at the last service that mine were looking a bit cracked. Also told that they could last for a few years yet or that they could pop any moment - no way to tell, and the dealer had seen plenty worse. At some point I will look into fitting the DAE ones or similar.
The “it’s trim, sir” line is preposterous.
The “it’s trim, sir” line is preposterous.
I was told that the loss of the ASM pipes wont actually damage anything however if they do pop or leak you will lose all drive from the car and strand you wherever you may be, so a call out to get recovered to a garage and than having the pipes changed will be more expensive than them just changing them when they look like theyre about to pop.
Stepping out of the warranty sounds like a good idea after they had you jumping through hoops like that, although there is always that "what if" trepidation, I`m sure your common sense as well as a smattering of pride takes over. I kept my warranty for the first year only, and the only major cost since then that may have been applied is when the LED`s on one tail light failed, but four plus years of no warranty is more than 10k, so winning!
Definitely the right route to go. I had a similar experience. My DBS was purchased used and had always been maintained by the home of AM. Just before the end of my 1yr Timeless Warranty I spent similar money to have an independent inspection done. It revealed a number of fault items that should never have been missed/ ignored. For me, it was shameful... and definitely undermined what little confidence I already had in going the AM route vs. using a specialist independent. Like you, I took the findings back to AM, had the usual disagreements, but finally got the items attended to. The independent inspection costs were well worth the money.
Dobie177 said:
Definitely the right route to go. I had a similar experience. My DBS was purchased used and had always been maintained by the home of AM. Just before the end of my 1yr Timeless Warranty I spent similar money to have an independent inspection done. It revealed a number of fault items that should never have been missed/ ignored. For me, it was shameful... and definitely undermined what little confidence I already had in going the AM route vs. using a specialist independent. Like you, I took the findings back to AM, had the usual disagreements, but finally got the items attended to. The independent inspection costs were well worth the money.
Absolutely and totally agree with you regarding being worth paying for that Indie inspection.OPs experience appears to exactly reflect the comments made in a certain video which I watched recently, particularly your reference to refusing claims.
Following the purchase of my car, I did not have any faults during the first year, so was then confident to accept the risk myself and therefore did not renew the warranty.
The only faults that have occurred since (might have been covered), air con radiator and door damper. However using the cost that you mention, I have now saved £23,000 !
That should be plenty, if I should ever need an engine!
....to be clear, extended "timeless" warranties i.e. those beyond the first 3 yr AM Warranty are NOT provided bny AM themselves, they are outsourced to a professional warranty company to run the timeless scheme for them.
So it is this company that then has the power to approve or reject any claim submitted. Obviously there is a framework and cover profile agreed with AM when they take out the agreement with a company, but the grey areas of any specific claim are then down to the company in the first instance not AM.
If you are not happy with the rejection of a timeless warranty claim then you should first check your dealer has made sufficently good representation of the facts to the company, and then speak to the factory to see if they can intervene with either the dealer and/or the company on your behalf.
So it is this company that then has the power to approve or reject any claim submitted. Obviously there is a framework and cover profile agreed with AM when they take out the agreement with a company, but the grey areas of any specific claim are then down to the company in the first instance not AM.
If you are not happy with the rejection of a timeless warranty claim then you should first check your dealer has made sufficently good representation of the facts to the company, and then speak to the factory to see if they can intervene with either the dealer and/or the company on your behalf.
I have an Aston in the US so the UK experience will undoubtedly be different.
I have the AM Extended Service Contract and it is an unmitigated POS. Is it third party, well that is debatable. The contract in the US is actually made with the "Company" which is "Aston Martin Lagonda of North America", but there is an "Administrator" that is a third party, who's control, ownership and affiliation with AML is undefined and unknown to me at this point.
AML may legally try to separate themselves from responsibility under the warranty but I think it's going to be harder legally than just throwing their arms up in the air and saying '"We have no control over it." From what I can tell, AML determines all features of the contract and the manner in which it is sold. The owner's contact with the contract is technically only through the dealer which interacts directly with an AML representative. Neither the dealer or the owner ever actually interacts with the Administrator. AML is the gatekeeper. I even asked Aston to give me contact info for the Administrator when AML et al denied a claim. They refused to even provide contact info. It was all very murky. I'm not a lawyer but if it quacks like a duck and walk like a duck, it's a duck regardless of any legerdemain AML finds advantageous to hide behind.
Of course, I haven't done all the work behind who "Aston Martin Lagonda of North America" really is, how they are connected to the UK entity and who has signing authority for all the entities including the "warranty" documents. Anybody who has ever worked in finance knows what type of rat's nest all these docs and ownership interests can be, mostly designed to shelter tax and legal liability. Anyway, calling this a "third party product" needs to be litigated rather than take Aston;s word for it.
( By the way, any phone number I ever dialed in the US for Aston goes to voicemail or is answered by a third party company, Morley, who is contracted by Aston to answer the phone and take messages, From what I can tell, Aston Martin Lagonda of North America is just smoke and mirrors. Don't expect anybody with any authority to be based in the US.)
( As an aside, I tried to contact the Administrator directly in the US. First, the phone number on the AM site is incorrect...doesn't even have the right number of digits to be a real number. I then pulled up a phone number from the incorporation docs in the US. The phone number went directly to email, and a message was not returned. I then went to the Administrator's website and sent an email to customer service. That also went unanswered.)
Nonetheless, if you are at the point of going through the docs with a fine tooth comb, IMO, you are already in a losing contract. I've never had any issue with extended warranties provided with Porsche or BMW, Aston is 100% hassle. Not worth the paper it's printed on. I see it as Strolls' "Ultra-luxury" toilet paper".
Now, as for the economics. In the US , the cost is about $4000USD annually. ( Makes it look like a bargain in the UK) Then given my experience, I would be hesitant doing my own work, like changing oil and filters during the warranty period. ( Never had this concern with Porsche or BMW) My dealer annual service is about $1800, so now one is looking at about $5800 per year for the sketchy, incomplete protection of the Aston warranty. I'll take my chances at that price. YMMV.
I have the AM Extended Service Contract and it is an unmitigated POS. Is it third party, well that is debatable. The contract in the US is actually made with the "Company" which is "Aston Martin Lagonda of North America", but there is an "Administrator" that is a third party, who's control, ownership and affiliation with AML is undefined and unknown to me at this point.
AML may legally try to separate themselves from responsibility under the warranty but I think it's going to be harder legally than just throwing their arms up in the air and saying '"We have no control over it." From what I can tell, AML determines all features of the contract and the manner in which it is sold. The owner's contact with the contract is technically only through the dealer which interacts directly with an AML representative. Neither the dealer or the owner ever actually interacts with the Administrator. AML is the gatekeeper. I even asked Aston to give me contact info for the Administrator when AML et al denied a claim. They refused to even provide contact info. It was all very murky. I'm not a lawyer but if it quacks like a duck and walk like a duck, it's a duck regardless of any legerdemain AML finds advantageous to hide behind.
Of course, I haven't done all the work behind who "Aston Martin Lagonda of North America" really is, how they are connected to the UK entity and who has signing authority for all the entities including the "warranty" documents. Anybody who has ever worked in finance knows what type of rat's nest all these docs and ownership interests can be, mostly designed to shelter tax and legal liability. Anyway, calling this a "third party product" needs to be litigated rather than take Aston;s word for it.
( By the way, any phone number I ever dialed in the US for Aston goes to voicemail or is answered by a third party company, Morley, who is contracted by Aston to answer the phone and take messages, From what I can tell, Aston Martin Lagonda of North America is just smoke and mirrors. Don't expect anybody with any authority to be based in the US.)
( As an aside, I tried to contact the Administrator directly in the US. First, the phone number on the AM site is incorrect...doesn't even have the right number of digits to be a real number. I then pulled up a phone number from the incorporation docs in the US. The phone number went directly to email, and a message was not returned. I then went to the Administrator's website and sent an email to customer service. That also went unanswered.)
Nonetheless, if you are at the point of going through the docs with a fine tooth comb, IMO, you are already in a losing contract. I've never had any issue with extended warranties provided with Porsche or BMW, Aston is 100% hassle. Not worth the paper it's printed on. I see it as Strolls' "Ultra-luxury" toilet paper".
Now, as for the economics. In the US , the cost is about $4000USD annually. ( Makes it look like a bargain in the UK) Then given my experience, I would be hesitant doing my own work, like changing oil and filters during the warranty period. ( Never had this concern with Porsche or BMW) My dealer annual service is about $1800, so now one is looking at about $5800 per year for the sketchy, incomplete protection of the Aston warranty. I'll take my chances at that price. YMMV.
Sorry to read your post. You have dug deep, but without any help being offered.
There was a lady in charge of AML in the USA. Think she was appointed by Andy Palmer, so probably had the title President !.
She left a while ago and I think there was an announcement of a man appointed as her successor. Is it worth you trying to contact him.
Has your car had faults, which maybe encouraged you to keep buying the extended warranty?
I seem to have had it easy by comparison. A low mileage keeper, so have maintenance by an independent every 2 years. Have not had a warranty for about 10 years, so a sizeable saving already for any future faults. The only faults during my long ownership have been an air con radiator and door damper.
A very reliable car.
Dewi 2 said:
She left a while ago and I think there was an announcement of a man appointed as her successor. Is it worth you trying to contact him.
Has your car had faults, which maybe encouraged you to keep buying the extended warranty?
2.) I bought my car when it was two years old, 2000 miles with one year left on the original warranty. I bought it sight unseen from a far away Aston dealer and decided to spend the extra money on the one additional year of warranty just for a little security plus I made it a condition of the sale.
I am not aware of any faults the car had prior. It seemed clean and mint. I posted about my faulty ignition coil experience in a separate thread. At this point it looks to be a design problem. Mercedes/AMG has redesigned and updated the faulty part. I am still pursuing to find out what Aston has done, if anything, to rectify the issue. I will post in that thread once I find out.
On the whole, I think the V12s are pretty strong. I’ve had my 2009 V12V for about 12 years. It had one year AM warranty when I bought it and I’ve never had an extended warranty. I did have the front ceramic disks replaced (out of warranty, but after discussion with AM they agreed to cover all the cost) and clutch and gearbox were ‘allegedly’ replaced under warranty due to a slight crunching from 1st to 2nd when cold.
Whilst mine is an individual experience I also think many owners choose not to pay for the extended warranty and instead just have work done when needed as it does seem for most the best financial approach. With quite a few good indies as well it helps keep costs down.
I should also add that I don’t do much mileage - car has done 23,000 miles.
Ironically I had more ‘problems’ new model V8 2019 vantage!
Whilst mine is an individual experience I also think many owners choose not to pay for the extended warranty and instead just have work done when needed as it does seem for most the best financial approach. With quite a few good indies as well it helps keep costs down.
I should also add that I don’t do much mileage - car has done 23,000 miles.
Ironically I had more ‘problems’ new model V8 2019 vantage!
Simpo Two said:
Just googled to find out what the heck ASM stands for. No luck. Can anyone enlighten me?
Don’t know what it stands for, but it’s the acronym used for the automated manual gearbox in the previous-shape Vantage. ASM1/2/3 correspond to SSI/II/III. The ASM pipes carry gearbox oil/lube. They have rubberised punters and braided inners. When the outers perish its a sign that the inners may split, and if that happens you lose pressure and fluid in the gearbox rapidly and so lose drive. So there is a dice roll to be had about replacing them: will they last until the next service?My car’s in for a service and I’ve just had a video showing the state of them. They aren’t appreciably worse than last year but at >1.6 to change at AM (the gearbox has to come out, I am told) vs 700 at an indie using upgraded non OEM pipes, it’s a job I’m going to leave until the autumn.
Automated Shift Manual
https://www.semanticscholar.org/paper/Torque-fill-...
https://www.semanticscholar.org/paper/Torque-fill-...
BlackWidow13 said:
The ASM pipes carry gearbox oil/lube.
Nope. They contain the hydraulic fluid for the shifting mechanism, not the gearbox/diff oil Edited by LTP on Tuesday 5th July 11:54
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