Discussion
This is a surprise to us.
Wonder how the information was discovered?
'However, according to several sources, Aston's planned all-new EV lineup, which was to see replacements for Vantage, DB11, DBS, and DBX in the 2026-2029 timeframe, will no longer use the Mercedes AMG 59X matrix.'
Lucid's losses make AML look like an amateur.
Presumably, any future relationship between AML and Lucid, might rely on PIF financing to keep Lucid continuing as a going concern.
EDIT
From the Lucid Wikipedia page;
On, 27 April 2022, Government of Saudi Arabia announced to purchase a minimum of 50,000 electric vehicles and up to 100,000 electric vehicles from Lucid Motors over a ten-year period. The Saudi government said the decision was in line with efforts to make its fleet more environmentally friendly and diversify the national economy away from oil. Lucid was selected, the government said, because the company is setting up a full production factory in Saudi Arabia—its first international manufacturing plant, which is aiming to produce 150,000 cars annually.
Edited by Jon39 on Saturday 11th February 09:34
v8vantage said:
Sounds like an ideal partnership, I hope they go for it. I reckon the replacement V8 Vantage will be the VoltagE. PIF have deep pockets and can fund it a lot better than the Chinese.
Oh goody an all electric Vantage. Just what we all want. Maybe it will come a prerecorded soundtrack and exterior speakers just like the new Dodges. AstonV said:
Oh goody an all electric Vantage. Just what we all want. Maybe it will come a prerecorded soundtrack and exterior speakers just like the new Dodges.
Possibly not...but maybe our grandchildren won't grow up suffering from debilitating lung diseasesThe truth about this (like most things in life) lies somewhere in the middle.
pschlute said:
Possibly not...but maybe our grandchildren won't grow up suffering from debilitating lung diseases
The truth about this (like most things in life) lies somewhere in the middle.
A discussion on "debilitating lung diseases" in which the internal combustion engine is blamed as the culprit, but no mention is made of smoking, is disingenuous at best. Please show me your data that justify such a comment. In particular, please show me your data comparing the contribution of the internal combustion engine to "debilitating lung diseases" today, as opposed to say 50 or 60 years ago. Understand that I am not advocating for smog, a return to leaded gasoline, an era of no catalytic converters etc., I'm just trying to understand where you are getting this from, as surely the best approach to a problem is to identify and then try to eliminate the primary/most important cause. The truth about this (like most things in life) lies somewhere in the middle.
I do like your comment about the truth lying in the middle. Since we are trotting out aphorisms, I suggest: beware of simple solutions to complex problems.
quench said:
A discussion on "debilitating lung diseases" in which the internal combustion engine is blamed as the culprit, but no mention is made of smoking, is disingenuous at best. Please show me your data that justify such a comment. In particular, please show me your data comparing the contribution of the internal combustion engine to "debilitating lung diseases" today, as opposed to say 50 or 60 years ago. Understand that I am not advocating for smog, a return to leaded gasoline, an era of no catalytic converters etc., I'm just trying to understand where you are getting this from, as surely the best approach to a problem is to identify and then try to eliminate the primary/most important cause.
I do like your comment about the truth lying in the middle. Since we are trotting out aphorisms, I suggest: beware of simple solutions to complex problems.
Good post. I am fairly clued up on science and logic but not sure what lung diseases petrol causes. I await enlightenment.I do like your comment about the truth lying in the middle. Since we are trotting out aphorisms, I suggest: beware of simple solutions to complex problems.
I thought we might be discussing the possibility of an end to the Mercedes technical agreement.
Sorry, I cannot contribute to medical discussions.
I don't think I ever knew what the end date of the present AM/MB technical agreement is.
Considering how long it takes to develop a new model, if MB parts cease at some point, that might be tricky for AMs advance planning.
Already the MB inline 6 hybrid is fitted in a DBX (China only), although we have not heard anything about that model since the launch announcement. Might that be the last MB based electric model?
Getting back to the original article…
It seems to quote “a number of sources”, yet much of this is brand new information for members here who follow AM news and history very closely.
Whilst I wiuld love to hear that the Merc AMG deal is due to go in the bin and the currnet swathe of models will be confined to history as a temporary black spot, I find it hard to accept this article as credible at this stage.
We need futher collaborating facts, as too much of what is written here as accepted facts, appears to actually be new information…
It seems to quote “a number of sources”, yet much of this is brand new information for members here who follow AM news and history very closely.
Whilst I wiuld love to hear that the Merc AMG deal is due to go in the bin and the currnet swathe of models will be confined to history as a temporary black spot, I find it hard to accept this article as credible at this stage.
We need futher collaborating facts, as too much of what is written here as accepted facts, appears to actually be new information…
Looks more opinion than fact in that article to me at least.
Reality is that it is more likely to be MB or Geely, both of which have platforms for EVs. Lucid would seem a strange one to me at least.
As for dumping the current MB agreement it would seem strange, the current setup at least in terms of software and diagnostics did bring a lot of benefits to AM. Although even that being said there is some real quirks in hardware and the software supporting the current cars.
Reality is that it is more likely to be MB or Geely, both of which have platforms for EVs. Lucid would seem a strange one to me at least.
As for dumping the current MB agreement it would seem strange, the current setup at least in terms of software and diagnostics did bring a lot of benefits to AM. Although even that being said there is some real quirks in hardware and the software supporting the current cars.
The tie up between Aston Martin and Lucid makes sense in so many different ways. ARAMCO is the naming rights sponsor of Aston Martin F1. PIF owns a percentage of ARAMCO. PIF owns more than 16% of Aston Martin. PIF owns 60% of LUCID. LUCID is building a factory in Saudi Arabia. Why would Stroll want to have Geeley muscle in when he can work with a willing partner with PIF/LUCID/ARAMCO. PIF has much deeper pockets than MB or Geeley and invests for the long term so can take some short term loss easily.
It is an interesting business model, they are losing $200,000 per car produced at the moment. Their CEO has been given a $350,000,000 share allocation which given the $35,000,000 share allocation that the GM CEO has is a thick payout. Now either this is a very big carrot to motivated the CEO to improve company profitability. But the numbers for the Q3 are not good.
So even if you have Saudi saying they will buy 10,000 cars a year. If they are losing money on each car then this idea that they could float until they are profitable or that Aston could get in at the ground floor is under discussion.
We haven't got to Honda Rune cost per unit. But Honda sells alot of things to compensate.
So even if you have Saudi saying they will buy 10,000 cars a year. If they are losing money on each car then this idea that they could float until they are profitable or that Aston could get in at the ground floor is under discussion.
We haven't got to Honda Rune cost per unit. But Honda sells alot of things to compensate.
sisu said:
It is an interesting business model, they are losing $200,000 per car produced at the moment. Their CEO has been given a $350,000,000 share allocation which given the $35,000,000 share allocation that the GM CEO has is a thick payout. Now either this is a very big carrot to motivated the CEO to improve company profitability. But the numbers for the Q3 are not good.
So even if you have Saudi saying they will buy 10,000 cars a year. If they are losing money on each car then this idea that they could float until they are profitable or that Aston could get in at the ground floor is under discussion. ...
So even if you have Saudi saying they will buy 10,000 cars a year. If they are losing money on each car then this idea that they could float until they are profitable or that Aston could get in at the ground floor is under discussion. ...
My understanding is that in 2022, Lucid built slightly more cars than Aston Martin, but could not sell all of them, so their total sales were lower Aston Martin.
7180 built and 4369 delivered in 2022.
Presumably their Middle East majority owners, will continue topping up their finances.
I believe Lucid's Middle East factory is being/has been built.
If the $350,000,000 share allocation was at flotation ($25.24) = 13,866,878 shares.
Then the value peaked at $800,812,204, but is now down to $59,072,900.
A reward of $13,520 for every car sold in 2022.
Share awards ought to only be exercisable, subject to profitability.
The share price comparison with Lucid and Aston Martin is uncanny.
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