4.3 Vantage brake upgrade

[leerandle]

So, I have recently purchased some One-77 brake calipers and thought I would embark on looking into the upgrade and buying the various parts needed over spring/summer and then I have a nice winter project whilst the car is sat in the garage.

There is nothing wrong with the existing brakes and I've never tracked the car to date, but just thought I would start looking into the possibility and what options are out there. My 4.3 is a keeper and I have no intention of saving the money and getting a 4.7 or V12 that generally come with the larger and/or carbon discs.

I did post it on facebook and got some good responses, but assume there are also additional followers on here that might have also looked into the upgrade and what options they opted for.

From a cost point of view, I see the CCM as a non starter. Therefore, its probably going to be steel discs and pads.

I've already started looking at the various differences between the V8, V12 and One-77 and I was surprised how many of the components are different. (servo/master cylinder,ABS module, adaptor brackets/bolts, heat shields etc etc)

I'm sure there is a simply bolt on solution, that might be cheaper, but where's the fun in that.....

So, just wondered if anyone else has performed a similar upgrade and what was their experience.

At the moment, I only have the calipers and before I buy any additional parts, want to make sure I have a joined up/safe solution. NOTE: I may find that having purchased the calipers first, it was the wrong way to go. So any advice or information appreciated.

I'll also be discussing with AM, indies and known parts dealers to understand options.

More of a mine field than I first thought........

[Phuketpaul]

I replied on facebook as well but here are the details of what I did to my DB9, same hubs etc.

https://db9s.com/db9-upgraded-brakes/

[leerandle]

That's exactly the type of info I was looking for.

I will probably get some spacers machined up once I have the dimensions and confirmed my options will work.

410mm front discs and 380mm on the rear are enormous !!

Did you make any changes to the servo, hoses etc.

I'll be sending an e-mail to Gary :-)

[Phuketpaul]

leerandle said:

That's exactly the type of info I was looking for.

I will probably get some spacers machined up once I have the dimensions and confirmed my options will work.

410mm front discs and 380mm on the rear are enormous !!

Did you make any changes to the servo, hoses etc.

I'll be sending an e-mail to Gary :-)

I put new hoses on, but the standard hoses fitted fine. In fact the DBS hoses, servo and master cylinder are exactly the same as the 4 Pot DB9 (and look the same as the One-77)

[leerandle]

I'll check all hoses when disassembled and probably replace just to be safe.

So far I have used the Scuderia website to get all the part numbers and be able to cross reference between models.

I am assuming its 99% accurate, even if not, its a good source for illustrations/part numbers and costs.

[Al Gorithum]

May be worth looking at...

https://www.tdi-plc.com/product-category/brands-if...

[IainWhy]

I fitted the Gt4 calipers, for most this is probably not a prefect idea as they don't look like much and are anodised with internal grit seals so need more maintenance but as my car is very much focused on the track use its the right option for me.

I would stress that you need to make sure you understand both the brake bias change and the hydraulic change. if your pistons are larger displacement you will notice it in the pedal and significantly send the bias rearwards which will impact on the ASSC and abs function.

Carbon ceramics are a ridiculous "upgrade" and one I would dismiss, the feel is not good, the performance is no better than steels with a good pad and your unlikely to really notice the reduction in unsprung outside of full competition.

I will add though that one of the biggest issues with the vantage braking is actually the cooling not the system. even using pagid RSL1 pads on the gt4 caliper i was able to boil the fluid (new castrol react) on a short circuit. with cooling ducts added the caliper surface temps peaked at 120 degrees (all be it not on the same track)

some food for thought perhaps....

[JohnG1]

Surface transforms ?

[embdenb]

You stated that you do not, and will not track your car.
Be aware, based on your stated usage, that a brake upgrade will not make your car stop any sooner or shorter. So your upgrade is for cosmetic purposes only. Nothing wrong with that.

[leerandle]

embdenb said:

You stated that you do not, and will not track your car.
Be aware, based on your stated usage, that a brake upgrade will not make your car stop any sooner or shorter. So your upgrade is for cosmetic purposes only. Nothing wrong with that.

Don’t forget the complete car is for cosmetic purposes only lol……I appreciate that it’s more of a vanity project, but interesting to find what options and issues there might be.

[Nigel_O]

When I suffered a rare case of genuinely pitted discs, I chose to go for a bigger two-piece disc from RB racing rotors

380mm isn’t massively bigger than the standard 355mm, but it fills the wheel quite nicely and uses the original calipers



Usefully, to quell my OCD, the discs have ten floating bobbins which sit perfectly in the gaps in the 20-spoke wheels

[V8V Quadcamboy]

Have been thinking about braking upgrade. Had a hard stop from three figures recently and was not impressed. 4 pot brembos on V8V.

Recently read OP (I think) post on FB re DBS calipers but looking at mega bucks!! Plus needs 20" wheels, which I don't want.

I understand that you can't fit the 6 pots from an S. Why is that? Is there no adapter avaiable?

Has anyone experience of the Porterfield pads in a 4 pot claiper?

Edited by V8V Quadcamboy on Tuesday 18th April 10:53

[V8V Quadcamboy]

Nigel_O said:

When I suffered a rare case of genuinely pitted discs, I chose to go for a bigger two-piece disc from RB racing rotors

380mm isn’t massively bigger than the standard 355mm, but it fills the wheel quite nicely and uses the original calipers



Usefully, to quell my OCD, the discs have ten floating bobbins which sit perfectly in the gaps in the 20-spoke wheels

So is that using the original pad?

How would you rate the braking now?

[TR-Spider]

V8V Quadcamboy said:

Have been thinking about braking upgrade. Had a hard stop from three figures recently and was not impressed. 4 pot brembos on V8V.

Recently read OP (I think) post on FB re DBS calipers but looking at mega bucks!! Plus needs 20" wheels, which I don't want.

I understand that you can't fit the 6 pots from an S. Why is that? Is there no adapter avaiable?

Has anyone experience of the Porterfield pads in a 4 pot claiper?

Edited by V8V Quadcamboy on Tuesday 18th April 10:53

You can fit the 6 piston from the S, but you need the hubs/uprights from an S, as the calipers have a different bolt pattern.
There is no height difference between the hubs, so you cant fit an adapter - and the threadholes would be sitting very closed together if you would redrill. Apparently you need a new master cylinder as well.
I personally would avoid 20", but each on its own...

[IainWhy]

I dont think re drilling is a good option, there will not be enough material in the kingpin. You could engineer round it using steel inserts but its not worth the effort given you can pick up second hand hubs cheaply enough.

Its very easy to space the existing caliper out to run a bigger disk which will give you more leverage, however i would reiterate the cooling is crap.

Stock 4.3 pads are if i recall correctly Pagid RS4's which are waaaay more than adequate with some cooling. most if not all of the replacements will be inferior though will be quieter/cheaper/less dusty the 4.7 had a less aggressive pad.

[V8V Quadcamboy]

Just watched Redpants pad comparison video and reckon the Hawk HPS 5.0 might be worth a try. Anyone else had experience of them and how to "do away with" the pad wear sensor leads?

[Nigel_O]

V8V Quadcamboy said:

Nigel_O said:

When I suffered a rare case of genuinely pitted discs, I chose to go for a bigger two-piece disc from RB racing rotors

380mm isn’t massively bigger than the standard 355mm, but it fills the wheel quite nicely and uses the original calipers



Usefully, to quell my OCD, the discs have ten floating bobbins which sit perfectly in the gaps in the 20-spoke wheels

So is that using the original pad?

How would you rate the braking now?

Braking performance (for a road car) is at least 80% down to the pads and only 20% down to the discs. Ie good pads on poor discs will work OK, but poor pads on good discs will still be rubbish.

The big discs are mostly for aesthetic reasons. Yes, they are a bit lighter than one-piece discs and the heat management is probably better. They’ll also be bloody difficult to warp, due to the floating rotor. However, the leap in braking performance came from fitting Porterfield pads - never used them before, but I’ve been very pleased with the bite and the feel. Low dust too, which is nice.

[V8V Quadcamboy]

Nigel_O said:

Braking performance (for a road car) is at least 80% down to the pads and only 20% down to the discs. Ie good pads on poor discs will work OK, but poor pads on good discs will still be rubbish.

The big discs are mostly for aesthetic reasons. Yes, they are a bit lighter than one-piece discs and the heat management is probably better. They’ll also be bloody difficult to warp, due to the floating rotor. However, the leap in braking performance came from fitting Porterfield pads - never used them before, but I’ve been very pleased with the bite and the feel. Low dust too, which is nice.

Thanks for that Nigel.

Would you say stopping distance is reduced? Cheers, Quad

[Nigel_O]

V8V Quadcamboy said:

Thanks for that Nigel.

Would you say stopping distance is reduced? Cheers, Quad

No - if brakes are capable of locking the wheels (or triggering the ABS), then stopping distance is almost entirely down to the grip of the tyres on the road surface. Bog-standard V8V brakes are more than capable of locking the wheels, so huge brake discs or fancy pads aren’t going to make a difference.

However, big discs with better ventilation and good quality pads WILL make a difference after repeated big stops, where the pricy stuff will be more resistant to fade.

The final difference is that better brakes often give better ‘feel’. Although this is entirely subjective, I’ve found that a good brake setup can sometimes allow the driver to brake on the very edge of the ABS, without triggering it.

I spent a lot of time and effort on the brakes of my Fiat Coupe and ended up with brakes that could make passengers feel distinctly queasy. In a weird connection between the Fiat and the Aston, I once trialled a pad compound for Bremsen Technik (importers of Pagid pads) that the Aston team used on their LeMans 24h car. On a trackday, I got the pad material to over 750 degrees and the plastic centre cap on one of the wheels melted and fell out…

I like having good brakes…..

[IainWhy]

A bigger disk will create more leverage so can stop the car faster, but only where the tyre can communicate more torque to the road. you tend to notice it more at higher speed, in that the standard brakes can lock the wheels at 30 but not at a 100 (for example) so where you can make use of it the higher torque from a bigger disk can be a gain, but only where all the components in the system can make use of it.