DB11 Running costs & likely depreciation

[Wayne95]

Hi,

I am looking to move on from my N430 to a DB11 as my miles are now 8-10k per year and I need more of a GT than sports car. The Vantage does long trips OK, but comfort and motorway traffic could be better - hence the idea of a DB11.

So, over 15k miles whats the better from a cost per mile perspective - a DB11 V8 or V12. My budget is up to £85k.

I suspect the V8 will use less fuel (!), but is servicing that much different, and would the V8 depreciate more over time than a v12?

Any idea of real world motorway consumption on them both?

My feeling is a V8 would be better overall, but at my price point there are more V12 around as they are older models.

Finally, any views on reliability of both?

Thanks
Wayne

[Ninja59]

Hmm, both have known coil pack issues, both due to water ingress essentially. AM modified the guards on the V12 to prevent it but some still have issues.

If the V12 is a launch edition you can get the AMR tune to make it louder and crackle more.

That being said as a current gen Vantage owner with the V8 I have no real issue with it, mpg is somewhere around 30mpg on a run, day to day is about 18mpg, overall average over 8.5k is 21mpg.

Voltage issues are another area as they are super sensitive to voltage issues, the Vantage seems worse for that though.

[Calinours]

Wayne95 said:

Hi,

over 15k miles whats the better from a cost per mile perspective - DB11 V8 or V12?

V8

is servicing that much different?

no

and would the V8 depreciate more over time than a v12?

Crystal ball time. The V12 has depreciated faster and further in these first 6 years, but that has really slowed recently, but how much of the slowing is the general market stuff is anyone’s guess. As the V12 is an Aston engine (and a very good one), was unique, and produced in much smaller numbers, and is already out of production, the V12 may be seen as more desirable than the AMG V8 car in coming years by the future buyers of second hand Astons, who it may be argued, are likely more traditionalist than the ‘new’ buyers these days…

But then again it may not

Any idea of real world motorway consumption on them both?

V12 about 22-25, V8 25-30. Both more if you drove like miss daisy.

May I respectfully comment, however, that given the costs of insurance, depreciation, servicing after 5yrs, tax etc, the cost of fuel may not be as significant in the end as you may think. If you really care about fuel, why are you thinking of any of these cars at all?

My feeling is a V8 would be better overall, but at my price point there are more V12 around as they are older models.

Yes. A very lucky situation that may change in the future….

Finally, any views on reliability of both?

Both seem pretty solid. Only issue of note has been mentioned above, how much of it is down to people power washing and letting water collect and stand in a cold engine is anyone’s guess.

Final comment - test drive both. It isn’t really about running costs with these cars. Either will cost you far more than an eco box. It’s about how the car makes you feel, and how much you enjoy driving it.

The 2016-2018 and 2021-2023 V12 are the exact same spec. The earlier car can be upgraded to AMR at any franchise dealer in a couple of hours for c£1k, the later car has the AMR software as standard.

Any V12 with the AMR flash IS effectively the same car as the 2018-2021 AMR with slightly softer rear subframe bushes, a 0.5mm thinner rear ARB, the earlier wheels as used on Bonds DB10 and sans the AMR cosmetics.

V12 Engine, transmission, suspension, once the upgrade is applied are all precisely the same as the much more expensive 2018-2021 ‘AMR’.

A decent condition, factory upgraded earlier V12 is thus a secret bargain. The Aston Martin V12 is much more powerful (630hp vs 503hp), faster in a straight line, has more low down grunt and is much smoother than the Mercedes V8.

Many, including me, like it very much. It was a valiant swan-song for Aston Martin in-house engine design.

The 2018-2023 V8 is significantly lighter at the front giving it sharper steering, and overall is considered a bit more of a sport-oriented and better handling version of the car - though remember the DB11 was intended to be the GT and the Vantage the sports car of the range. The V8 deploys more advanced fuelling and being smaller is naturally more fuel efficient - though the way you drive will have much more influence on consumption (and tyres, and brakes, and and…..)

Which one will you prefer? Only you can answer, and only then after you have driven both…

Thanks


No problem Wayne, let us know what you decide

Edited by Calinours on Friday 5th May 09:02

[Rapid rental]

Wayne, Is your N430 a manual?

[pschlute]

On a motorway at a steady speed of 70mph the DB11 V12 will be about 35mpg. It runs as a 6 cylinder in those situations until you put your foot down.

But if you are after fuel economy, you are looking at the wrong make.

[Simpo Two]

pschlute said:

On a motorway at a steady speed of 70mph the DB11 V12 will be about 35mpg. It runs as a 6 cylinder in those situations until you put your foot down.

Gah, now why couldn't they have done that with the V12 in the DB9!

Excuse my ignorance but is it the same basic engine only with better tech strapped on?

[Dewi 2]

Wayne95 said:

I am looking to move on from my N430 to a DB11 as my miles are now 8-10k per year and I need more of a GT than sports car. The Vantage does long trips OK, but comfort and motorway traffic could be better - hence the idea of a DB11.

So, over 15k miles whats the better from a cost per mile perspective - a DB11 V8 or V12. My budget is up to £85k.

I suspect the V8 will use less fuel (!), but is servicing that much different, and would the V8 depreciate more over time than a v12?

Any idea of real world motorway consumption on them both?

My feeling is a V8 would be better overall, but at my price point there are more V12 around as they are older models.

Finally, any views on reliability of both?

Thanks
Wayne

You were right Wayne to mention here, wanting to move on from your Vantage.
I am sure that an N430 will be a very sought after model amongst PHers.

Linking costs to owning an Aston Martin is interesting. I presume overall ownership cost must vary enormously. Especially high for the buyers of new core models.

My initial motive for buying a Vantage, was the opportunity to own such a beautiful car. I had anticipated high ownership costs, but have been pleasantly surprised. Buying a 3 year old as a keeper, not doing a high mileage and discovering that the depreciation after year 3 is surprisingly low in comparison to an everyday car, all helps

Interesting to think, that had I instead bought (say) a BMW i3 (supposedly an economy EV), it would by now be worth only a tiny amount and the overall cost would have been far more than my Aston Martin.

'In your shoes' my own choice would be the V12 version DB11. Guessing surely that it ought to be the sought after model in the future.
Alternatively, how about keeping your Vantage and buying a 3 year old everyday car, to 'eat the miles'?

[Agent57]

Simpo Two said:

Gah, now why couldn't they have done that with the V12 in the DB9!

Excuse my ignorance but is it the same basic engine only with better tech strapped on?

Not really. DB9 is 6.0 evolution of the DB7V engine from 1999, DB11 is a 5.2 turbo.

[pschlute]

Simpo Two said:

Excuse my ignorance but is it the same basic engine only with better tech strapped on?

Completely different. The DB9 is normally aspirated 5.93 litre. The DB11 is 5.2 litre with twin turbos.

I loved my old DB9 which I had for 10 years. It was one of the early ones so "only" 450 bhp. The standard DB11 puts out 600 ! It was quite the change for me. I had never felt the "9" lose grip when putting the power down....the "11" needs careful handling especially when the tires are cold.

[Jon39]

pschlute said:

Completely different. The DB9 is normally aspirated 5.93 litre. The DB11 is 5.2 litre with twin turbos.

I am taking a guess now, but do I recall correctly, that either the bore or the stoke, remain the same as the DB7 V12 ?

[Simpo Two]

Agent57 said:

Not really. DB9 is 6.0 evolution of the DB7V engine from 1999, DB11 is a 5.2 turbo.

Thanks. Supercharged would have been more British though :-)

pschlute said:

I loved my old DB9 which I had for 10 years. It was one of the early ones so "only" 450 bhp. The standard DB11 puts out 600 ! It was quite the change for me. I had never felt the "9" lose grip when putting the power down....the "11" needs careful handling especially when the tires are cold.

That seems very much like when I went from Griffith 4.0 to Griffith 500; it goes from being 'chuckable' to having to be much more aware of the road surface, damp, cats eyes etc.

[Calinours]

This is the then AM Powertrain Chief Engineer Brian Fitzsimmons introducing the AE31 twin turbo V12.

https://youtu.be/0IREtCujKJk


I was in same position as OP 4 years ago, do I chop in the Vantage S for the DB11?.

In the end I kept my tweaked V8VS and bought a V12 DB11 so I had both a sports car and a GT. I’m glad I did, as both have fundamentally different characters and I could use the one suited to the mood and the drive. The DB11 is a very different proposition - it’s a GT.

OP - You might miss the rawness of the N430.

Assuming you don’t have garage space and luxury for two, might a turbo V8V not be nearer the mark for you as a more natural replacement for the N430? - If not, and it has to be one car and has to be a DB11, and you want to retain the highest degree of sportiness, I’d suspect you’d prefer the AMG engined version, or better still, the 2018-2021 DB11 AMR. Those marginally stiffer subframe bushes on top of tweaked software made it so much better than the original V12, just read the road tests or see the thoughts of the youtubers. Most are quite young and excitable so it’s easy to see how the few extra pops and crackles from the AMR software (a la the AMG V8) can make all the difference

Only one way to know - extended test drive in as many of the different flavours of modern Aston as you can.

Edited by Calinours on Friday 5th May 14:34

[Jon39]

Jon39 said:

pschlute said:

Completely different. The DB9 is normally aspirated 5.93 litre. The DB11 is 5.2 litre with twin turbos.

I am taking a guess now, but do I recall correctly, that either the bore or the stoke, remain the same as the DB7 V12 ?

I have found the answer.

The bore of the DB7 V12 engine 89.0mm, is identical to that of the DB11 V12.
Therefore the engine blocks may be the same or similar, with the reduced capacity being obtained by having a shorter stroke, 69.7mm instead of 79.5mm.

Obviously pistons and other parts would have to be different and of course turbo charging creates more heat and pressure, so expect quite a bit of 'beefing up' to the engine was done.

Edited by Jon39 on Friday 5th May 14:49

[Wayne95]

Rapid rental said:

Wayne, Is your N430 a manual?

Hi, Yes it is. 33k miles, Premium Audio,.Alloro Green with yellow highlights

Wayne

[Wayne95]

pschlute said:

On a motorway at a steady speed of 70mph the DB11 V12 will be about 35mpg. It runs as a 6 cylinder in those situations until you put your foot down.

But if you are after fuel economy, you are looking at the wrong make.

Thanks. Not looking for "economy", but my old V12V did < 20 mpg really. I'm happy at 25 as the government fuel allowance covers this, so 30+ for the boring motorway bits is excellent !

[Wayne95]

Dewi 2 said:

You were right Wayne to mention here, wanting to move on from your Vantage.
I am sure that an N430 will be a very sought after model amongst PHers.

Linking costs to owning an Aston Martin is interesting. I presume overall ownership cost must vary enormously. Especially high for the buyers of new core models.

My initial motive for buying a Vantage, was the opportunity to own such a beautiful car. I had anticipated high ownership costs, but have been pleasantly surprised. Buying a 3 year old as a keeper, not doing a high mileage and discovering that the depreciation after year 3 is surprisingly low in comparison to an everyday car, all helps

Interesting to think, that had I instead bought (say) a BMW i3 (supposedly an economy EV), it would by now be worth only a tiny amount and the overall cost would have been far more than my Aston Martin.

'In your shoes' my own choice would be the V12 version DB11. Guessing surely that it ought to be the sought after model in the future.
Alternatively, how about keeping your Vantage and buying a 3 year old everyday car, to 'eat the miles'?

I've just got rid of my electric everyday car, depreciation on that as a second car was much worse than just running the Aston, so I thought why not just have the Aston. Issue I have with the N430 is the seat comfort for me over 2 hour journeys, cant seem to get it right, but still trying. So I though at my older age maybe a move to the gentleman end of the Aston range is a good idea.

I will be trying one soon...

I do love the N430 though..

[pschlute]

Jon39 said:

I have found the answer.

The bore of the DB7 V12 engine 89.0mm, is identical to that of the DB11 V12.
Therefore the engine blocks may be the same or similar, with the reduced capacity being obtained by having a shorter stroke, 69.7mm instead of 79.5mm.

The engine is all new... AE31 is the design I believe. I would imagine that the similarity of things like bore or V angle would be down to manufacturing equipment AM use. It would be hardly right to call it a "brand new engine" if it was the older engine with a few tweaks.

[funboxster]

Ninja59 said:

Hmm, both have known coil pack issues, both due to water ingress essentially. AM modified the guards on the V12 to prevent it but some still have issues.

If the V12 is a launch edition you can get the AMR tune to make it louder and crackle more.

That being said as a current gen Vantage owner with the V8 I have no real issue with it, mpg is somewhere around 30mpg on a run, day to day is about 18mpg, overall average over 8.5k is 21mpg.

Voltage issues are another area as they are super sensitive to voltage issues, the Vantage seems worse for that though.

I've had my 2016 V12 LE since April 2018 and it has been generally reliable.
All the coil packs have been replaced, 6 under warranty, the other 6 out of warranty, and after a lot of arguing, at much reduced price. Water ingress through the middle ducts on the bonnet is the issue, despite the mods. I was told by some bod at AM HQ, NOT to use a hose on the bonnet. One CAT failed the day after I collected it, but was sorted under warranty.
A lovely car to drive and I've had 30mpg+ on a run.

[jason61c]

what about a 2015 onwards Vanquish?

nigh on 30mpg on a motorway run, likely less depreciation.

[Calinours]

jason61c said:

what about a 2015 onwards Vanquish?

nigh on 30mpg on a motorway run, likely less depreciation.

While some of us may question the logic, a priority for the OP was that his new Aston was a bit more fuel efficient than his N430. It may not be helpful to quote unrealistic efficiency numbers. Few have the luxury of travelling everywhere at a constant 65mph on a motorway with no starts, no stops, no slip roads, no acceleration, no rural roads, no city streets, no traffic lights and no hills, for that is the only way to achieve a computer-indicated 30 from the n/a V12.

In seven years of ownership, with all mixed driving including lots of time on motorway at or near the speed limit and excluding tracks, I always achieved an average 19.0-19.5 mpg from essentially the same car as OP. With the expect same driving style, which is perhaps a little quicker than the norm due to a lucky lack of speed cameras and some nice relatively quiet roads where I lived, my DB11 V12 returned an annual average of 21mpg. Directly compared, same roads, same driver, same period it is about 10% better on fuel than my V8VS.

It is generally accepted that being approximately 25% larger than the n/a 4.7 V8, and typically powering cars 10% heavier, the n/a V12 will be, all things equal, approximately 15-20% less efficient.

Thus, driven the same way, on same roads, with the same driver the n/a V12 would return an average somewhere around 16-17mpg.

If OP is willing to reduce the importance of mpg and modernity, and increase the importance of coolness, noise and beauty, then of course the Vanq will win hands down.