Aston Martin inflation adjusted prices

[Jon39]

Did some tea break doodling.
Results were surprising, hence this topic.
If my figures are correct, I discovered the following:-

DB9 V12 = £103,000 (April 2004) .......................... RPI 185.7 ............... DB9 Price adjusted
DB9 V12 Volante = £112,000 (April 2004) ............. RPI 185.7

DB11 V8 = £166,275 (Jan 2023) ............................. RPI 360.3 ....................... £200,000
DB12 V8 = £185,000 (May 2023) ........................... RPI 375.3 ........................ £208,000

The DB12 list price before options does appear reasonably priced, when compared to the DB9 at the time production began.

I dont know the DB11 V12 price.

[Calinours]

Jon39 said:

Did some tea break doodling.
Results were surprising, hence this topic.
If my figures are correct, I discovered the following:-

DB9 V12 = £103,000 (April 2004) .......................... RPI 185.7 ............... DB9 Price adjusted
DB9 V12 Volante = £112,000 (April 2004) ............. RPI 185.7

DB11 V8 = £166,275 (Jan 2023) ............................. RPI 360.3 ....................... £200,000
DB12 V8 = £185,000 (May 2023) ........................... RPI 375.3 ........................ £208,000

The DB12 list price before options does appear reasonably priced, when compared to the DB9 at the time production began.

I dont know the DB11 V12 price.

Not sure I follow this Jon. DB11 V12 base was £155k at launch in 2016, but nobody paid that as they had to have ‘launch edition’ high spec cars.

[Jon39]

Calinours said:

Not sure I follow this Jon. DB11 V12 base was £155k at launch in 2016, but nobody paid that as they had to have ‘launch edition’ high spec cars.

The RPI adjusted price (for the DB9 at launch) to March 2016 is £145,000.
Therefore from your data, the base DB11 V12 had a price uplift of £10,000.

Presumably it must have been later on, that the DB base prices fell behind the inflationary prices.
Either that, or my arithmetic is wrong.

What made me wonder about this, are the AML comments about having higher prices for new models. Perhaps it only applies to limited editions and not core models.

Edited by Jon39 on Thursday 29th June 18:52

[nickv12]

Also worth noting the DB9 is a 20 year old design and is technologically very much more simplistic (relatively) than the DB12. The base spec is was also much lower than a DB12 will be life for like.

The same can be said for the average family hatch, but it also goes a long way to explain why prices have gone up.

[Jon39]

nickv12 said:

Also worth noting the DB9 is a 20 year old design and is technologically very much more simplistic (relatively) than the DB12. The base spec is was also much lower than a DB12 will be like for like.

The same can be said for the average family hatch, but it also goes a long way to explain why prices have gone up.

True Nick, but the (perhaps surprising) point that I was making, is that in inflation adjusted money, the price has not gone up.
It seems to have gone down.
The DB12 appears (at base list price) to be cheaper than the DB9 at launch.

That was why I posted the topic. I was particulary surprised to find this, especially following LS's stated desire for higher prices.
If my arithmetic is correct and if LS gets to hear about this, there might be an upward price adjustment. -

It could be though, that the list price is kept down to attract buyers, but then the enticing (essential) options suck in another £50,000.
A popular ploy with premium cars and no doubt quite a good business strategy.

[Calinours]

I don’t think such comparisons reveal much either. Much can change in a few years, including the market positioning of a ‘brand’

Go back to 70s, for example. Who populated the rarified heights?

Ferrari, Lamborghini, Maserati, Rolls, Aston Martin

Now, in the ‘twenties’ the ultra top tier is now ‘premier league’ with Koenigsegg, Bugatti, some electric car makers trying.

German owned Rolls, Bentley, plus Ferrari and Lamborghini and upstarts like McLaren have horses in the super car races, with the odd special up there with the hyper car masters. AML, using others engines, are simply hanging onto the coat tails of heritage, and as ever, desperately trying to pretend they have the resources to play with the really big boys.

Edited by Calinours on Tuesday 4th July 12:41

[MCSV8]

Seems Astons have got relatively cheaper

Average UK house price in 1980 was about £20k. (£25k in London)

[Simpo Two]

Calinours said:

I don’t think such comparisons reveal much either. Much can change in a few years, including the market positioning of a ‘brand’

Go back to 70s, for example. Who populated the rarified heights?

Ferrari, Lamborghini, Maserati, Rolls, Aston Martin

Now, in the ‘twenties’ the ultra top tier is now ‘premier league’ with Koenigsegg, Bugatti, some electric car makers trying.

German owned Rolls, Bentley, plus Ferrari and Lamborghini and upstarts like McLaren have horses in the super car races, with the odd special challenging the above masters. AML, using others engines, are simply hanging onto the coat tails of heritage, and as ever, desperately trying to pretend they have the resource ls to play with the really big boys.

Heritage is undervalued IMHO; it takes decades of toil and success to build, and can be thrown away overnight by the new kids in 'marketing' who think they know everything. Yes, Aston is hanging onto coat-tails in the race to the top (whatever that is, possibly some carbon fibre thing about a foot high that does 300mph), and that's why it's even more important to play to strengths not try to copy others'.

[Calinours]

Simpo Two said:

Calinours said:

I don’t think such comparisons reveal much either. Much can change in a few years, including the market positioning of a ‘brand’

Go back to 70s, for example. Who populated the rarified heights?

Ferrari, Lamborghini, Maserati, Rolls, Aston Martin

Now, in the ‘twenties’ the ultra top tier is now ‘premier league’ with Koenigsegg, Bugatti, some electric car makers trying.

German owned Rolls, Bentley, plus Ferrari and Lamborghini and upstarts like McLaren have horses in the super car races, with the odd special challenging the above masters. AML, using others engines, are simply hanging onto the coat tails of heritage, and as ever, desperately trying to pretend they have the resource ls to play with the really big boys.

Heritage is undervalued IMHO; it takes decades of toil and success to build, and can be thrown away overnight by the new kids in 'marketing' who think they know everything. Yes, Aston is hanging onto coat-tails in the race to the top (whatever that is, possibly some carbon fibre thing about a foot high that does 300mph), and that's why it's even more important to play to strengths not try to copy others'.

I agree. But do you think AML, right now, are ‘playing to their strengths’?

[Simpo Two]

Calinours said:

I agree. But do you think AML, right now, are ‘playing to their strengths’?

No, I think they've gone off down a new road that may or may not work. Either way, brand and product may get separated.

But I accept that nothing stays the same. I like Jags, Astons and Bentley. Jaguar binned their heritage and accordingly no longer make anything I wish to own; the new crop of Astons will be unaffordable even if I did want to do 300 mph and look like a Russian oligarch - and that leaves Bentley, which I haven't tried yet.

[AstonV]

Simpo Two said:

Heritage is undervalued IMHO; it takes decades of toil and success to build, and can be thrown away overnight by the new kids in 'marketing' who think they know everything.

Your correct. Look at “Bud Light”. #1 selling beer in America for decades destroyed is the blink of an eye. And it’s never ever coming back. Dragging down Anheuser-Busch on top of it.

[reddiesel]

I have a coffee most Sunday evening with some Works boys and we got to talking about the latest DBS revamp involving some vents and grills but not much else . This sort of thing was typical of Jaguar continually revamping ageing Models whilst the game and customer moved on elsewhere . I am far from an expert but like many on here I wonder about the long term Business Plan and currently there are some striking parallels with Jaguar

[Jon39]

MCSV8 said:

Seems Astons have got relatively cheaper.

£34,498 on 1st April 1980, before extras = £197,405 in 2023.

[Westlondondriver]

Jon39 said:

£34,498 on 1st April 1980, before extras = £197,405 in 2023.

The Bank of England inflation calculator says £140,700 at todays prices. So a V8 Vantage Costs about the same as it always did. The Lagonda works out at about £200o sos similar to a DBX.

[Nbgring]

The inflation adjusted price comparison across a 20 or 40 year span is quite interesting.
The result is: no big change - though the relevant technology has made huge progress!
Compared to the 1980 production number there is a huge volume increase of luxury sport cars - why?

I am convinced that the individual income increased significantly more than the inflation and thus the number of people who can afford an Aston Martin increased significantly. Inflation only covers the price change of a defined basket of goods - but not the population´s ability to afford these goods based on their income increases.

[Olivera]

Calinours said:

Now, in the ‘twenties’ the ultra top tier is now ‘premier league’ with Koenigsegg, Bugatti, some electric car makers trying.

German owned Rolls, Bentley, plus Ferrari and Lamborghini and upstarts like McLaren have horses in the super car races, with the odd special challenging the above masters. AML, using others engines, are simply hanging onto the coat tails of heritage, and as ever, desperately trying to pretend they have the resource ls to play with the really big boys.

You forgot to mention Pagani, who use... Mercedes engines. Bentley have ended W12 production, so mostly use VAG group engines. Lamborghini also use mostly VAG group engines. McLaren use engines made by a third party (Ricardo).

[Minglar]

Nbgring said:

The inflation adjusted price comparison across a 20 or 40 year span is quite interesting.
The result is: no big change - though the relevant technology has made huge progress!
Compared to the 1980 production number there is a huge volume increase of luxury sport cars - why?

I am convinced that the individual income increased significantly more than the inflation and thus the number of people who can afford an Aston Martin increased significantly. Inflation only covers the price change of a defined basket of goods - but not the population´s ability to afford these goods based on their income increases.

I would agree that income growth has probably outstripped inflation during the last forty years or so. But regarding affordability of luxury cars, imho one of the biggest differences nowadays is the wide spread availability of PCPs. Once only available on Fords, these types of products are everywhere now. Just look at how Mercedes embraced this and the resulting increase in sales. So people can afford the monthlies, but perhaps cannot afford to buy outright with cash. They still have the car on their drive though.

This has been flogged to death elsewhere on here though so I don’t want to open up any old wounds!

Best Regards

Minglar

[Jon39]

Westlondondriver said:

Jon39 said:

£34,498 on 1st April 1980, before extras = £197,405 in 2023.

The Bank of England inflation calculator says £140,700 at todays prices. So a V8 Vantage Costs about the same as it always did. The Lagonda works out at about £200k so similar to a DBX.

You have spotted an intriguing point WLD.

CPI only began in 1996, so I did my calculation using RPI.
( The government like CPI for their payments out, but like RPI even more for payments and taxes receivable. ) Yes, quite !

RPI April 1980 = 260.8
RPI May 2023 = 1480.6 *
* Not the figure published currently, because there was a rebase to 100 in Jan 1987.

Bank of England
April 1980 = £261
May 2023 = £1065

I have no idea why there is such a difference.

Would the 1980 V8 Vantage be considered the DBS of its day ?
The 2005 (V8) Vantage was introduced as a new additional (lower cost) model to the range.

Nbgring said:

The inflation adjusted price comparison across a 20 or 40 year span is quite interesting.
The result is: no big change - though the relevant technology has made huge progress!
Compared to the 1980 production number there is a huge volume increase of luxury sport cars - why?

I am convinced that the individual income increased significantly more than the inflation and thus the number of people who can afford an Aston Martin increased significantly. Inflation only covers the price change of a defined basket of goods - but not the population´s ability to afford these goods based on their income increases.

A very relevant point Theo.

We continually hear these days from the 'wingers and winers', that the UK does not make anything and is in poverty.
As you rightly point out, the reality is the wealth of the population has increased enormously and that wealth has become far more widely spread.

An example;
Cars registered in the UK
1960 = under 5 milion.
2023 = 33.2 million.
It might be pointed out that only a minority have been paid for, but we had better leave that one.


( That gave my brain some exercise. - )

Edited by Jon39 on Tuesday 4th July 12:31

[Calinours]

Olivera said:

Calinours said:

Now, in the ‘twenties’ the ultra top tier is now ‘premier league’ with Koenigsegg, Bugatti, some electric car makers trying.

German owned Rolls, Bentley, plus Ferrari and Lamborghini and upstarts like McLaren have horses in the super car races, with the odd special challenging the above masters. AML, using others engines, are simply hanging onto the coat tails of heritage, and as ever, desperately trying to pretend they have the resource ls to play with the really big boys.

You forgot to mention Pagani, who use... Mercedes engines. Bentley have ended W12 production, so mostly use VAG group engines. Lamborghini also use mostly VAG group engines. McLaren use engines made by a third party (Ricardo).

Bentley and Lamborghini use German VAG engines because they are German owned VAG companies. Who else’s engines would they use? Same for BMW owned RR and the 7-series platforms and engines. I didn’t mention Pagani as too niche/small low volume. There have always been these small players. McLaren are interesting in that engines are built by Ricardo, but they are bespoke, nobody else does or can use them.

I guess the point I was trying to make was about market positioning, as OP Jons point was about the cost of a given car now vs then. The best examples, notwithstanding Maserati’s recent supercar resurgence would be Jaguar, Maserati, and Mercedes. All three were genuine players in the top end car market in the 70s and especially 60s, but became producers of higher volume mass market stuff, with varying degrees of success, with Merc obviously being the most successful from a business perspective, and Maser the least. It has come at a cost though, as none of the three are now seen as properly top tier supercar/ultra luxury players, though this could be strongly argued for Merc with Maybach and S-class in the ‘ultra luxury’ (whatever that is) segment.

Perhaps the best example is Porsche - then as now they were a real player, but they have always positioned themselves just below the most expensive, top end offerings. A very clever strategy as they could (and have) developed to reach up into the rarified heights with stuff like GT3 and the stratosphere with stuff like 959, Carrera GT, but at the same time offering high volume mass market stuff like 924 and Boxster without damaging their ‘brand’.

As a result they have been the most successful of them all. Today Porsche is perhaps the most coveted car brand in the world. Iconic, exotic, yet attainable. I knew there was a reason AML recruited Dr Bez…

A point was made about modern cars having higher spec and thus not being directly comparable. This made me chuckle as it would infer that because a DB12 has more airbags and a better sat nav than a DB9 it should of course be more expensive…

The reality is that markets evolve and prioritise different things. Labour, material, manufacturing, processing, assembly and especially component costs can change enormously over time. It makes the type of ‘bill of materials’ comparisons pointless in the longer term.

All that can be compared is what the market is willing to pay to significantly differentiate from the norm, (ie to have the most exclusive ‘ultra luxury’ or ‘ultra sporting’ experience. This is mostly driven, as correctly pointed out by previous posters, by disposable income, now far higher now than thirty and especially forty years ago, even in the relatively stale developed economies.

What seems important - to ensure that someone in twenty years is going to be willing to pay £1m for your product - is that your product is today perceived to be top of the tree and priced accordingly ie “reassuringly expensive”. This seems to be what Stroll is aiming for, but as has been said in this forum previously by far cleverer and more astute heads than mine, the top drawer automotive industry ain’t fashion, the product really has to cut it, as well as be soundly underpinned by heritage. AML’s heritage, so valuable, is now his to either throw away or build on.

Edited by Calinours on Tuesday 4th July 13:22

Edited by Calinours on Tuesday 4th July 13:23