vanquish vs vanquish S Dyno?
Discussion
Had a lovely 36 hours and circa 700 miles in my vanquish.
Really put a smile on my face as it was totally effortless. It had me thinking about what i'd change it for, if I did.
Looking at a vanquish S, has anyone got a side by side dyno run/curve? It reads like peak power arrives 500rpm later? Are they actually making the power they claim?
Really put a smile on my face as it was totally effortless. It had me thinking about what i'd change it for, if I did.
Looking at a vanquish S, has anyone got a side by side dyno run/curve? It reads like peak power arrives 500rpm later? Are they actually making the power they claim?
I think you will struggle to find many owners who have directly compared the engines of a Vanq to a Vanq S and certainly not anyone who has put one on a dyno, not least because "its not that kind of car sir!"...
However if you look at V12 Vantage S owners who have had the factory AMR Powerkit fitted you will find relevant comments there, as the V12VS had the 563bhp engine of the Vanquish and the AMR Powerkit takes it up to the full 595bhp Vanquish S output.
I am one of those customers and I was very happy indeed with the result. That said I have zero interest in putting my car on a dyno either before or after, and I don't know of any other owners in the various groups I am in who have either.
However if you look at V12 Vantage S owners who have had the factory AMR Powerkit fitted you will find relevant comments there, as the V12VS had the 563bhp engine of the Vanquish and the AMR Powerkit takes it up to the full 595bhp Vanquish S output.
I am one of those customers and I was very happy indeed with the result. That said I have zero interest in putting my car on a dyno either before or after, and I don't know of any other owners in the various groups I am in who have either.
jason61c said:
there must be someone somewhere who has? I'd like to see how the nature of the engine has changed. I think it totally is 'that kind of car' 
Then read the multiple V12VS AMR Powerkit threads on here already - the engine change you are looking at is exactly the same. 
Here's my thread on my 595bhp upgrade as a starter
https://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&...
Edited by AdamV12V on Saturday 1st July 11:54
I have a V12VS which I put the power kit into after I’d had it a couple of years. The difference is there but it’s subtle, and had I driven two cars with the different outputs back to back I think I might had found it difficult to identify a difference. A different way of putting it is this: once you’re well and truly used to the performance of 565bhp, it becomes a bit easier to spot the additional 5% or so of power.
Remember that these cars produce those numbers at something like 5500-6000 rpm. Most of the time therefore you’re not experiencing that level of power, but you’re riding a wall of torque that starts not much above 1000rpm and pulls in a spectacularly linear fashion from there.
The upgrade, in my perception, gives you something that spins up a little more freely and as a result gives you a bit more push through the low and mid range. I’m sure it pulls harder between 5000 and 6000 rpm too, but let’s face it: it’s very hard to find anywhere in this country where you can detect that.
I’d be surprised if you moved from a Vanq to an Vanq S and felt blown away by a step change in power. More likely - I suspect - is that the overall package of handling, ride and a slightly greater urgency might make you think “this feels like a better car” but leave you struggling to pin down exactly how or why.
Remember that these cars produce those numbers at something like 5500-6000 rpm. Most of the time therefore you’re not experiencing that level of power, but you’re riding a wall of torque that starts not much above 1000rpm and pulls in a spectacularly linear fashion from there.
The upgrade, in my perception, gives you something that spins up a little more freely and as a result gives you a bit more push through the low and mid range. I’m sure it pulls harder between 5000 and 6000 rpm too, but let’s face it: it’s very hard to find anywhere in this country where you can detect that.
I’d be surprised if you moved from a Vanq to an Vanq S and felt blown away by a step change in power. More likely - I suspect - is that the overall package of handling, ride and a slightly greater urgency might make you think “this feels like a better car” but leave you struggling to pin down exactly how or why.
I have both a Vanquish S and a V12VSM, drove them an hour apart a couple of days ago and the thing you notice more than any power difference between the two is the change in dynamics, especially the quicker turn in on the Vantage.
Love the looks of the Vanq S (otherwise I wouldn't have bought it). Yes, it is arguably slightly less elegant but the whole package being slightly tauter and harder edged is part of the appeal. Could be an age thing though, as I could see myself preferring the non-S if I had more miles on the clock and wanted something a bit more relaxing.
Love the looks of the Vanq S (otherwise I wouldn't have bought it). Yes, it is arguably slightly less elegant but the whole package being slightly tauter and harder edged is part of the appeal. Could be an age thing though, as I could see myself preferring the non-S if I had more miles on the clock and wanted something a bit more relaxing.
BlackWidow13 said:
I have a V12VS which I put the power kit into after I’d had it a couple of years. The difference is there but it’s subtle, and had I driven two cars with the different outputs back to back I think I might had found it difficult to identify a difference. A different way of putting it is this: once you’re well and truly used to the performance of 565bhp, it becomes a bit easier to spot the additional 5% or so of power.
Remember that these cars produce those numbers at something like 5500-6000 rpm. Most of the time therefore you’re not experiencing that level of power, but you’re riding a wall of torque that starts not much above 1000rpm and pulls in a spectacularly linear fashion from there.
The upgrade, in my perception, gives you something that spins up a little more freely and as a result gives you a bit more push through the low and mid range. I’m sure it pulls harder between 5000 and 6000 rpm too, but let’s face it: it’s very hard to find anywhere in this country where you can detect that.
I’d be surprised if you moved from a Vanq to an Vanq S and felt blown away by a step change in power. More likely - I suspect - is that the overall package of handling, ride and a slightly greater urgency might make you think “this feels like a better car” but leave you struggling to pin down exactly how or why.
Yeah, I wonder how much of it is just the airbox/secondary decats and map? Remember that these cars produce those numbers at something like 5500-6000 rpm. Most of the time therefore you’re not experiencing that level of power, but you’re riding a wall of torque that starts not much above 1000rpm and pulls in a spectacularly linear fashion from there.
The upgrade, in my perception, gives you something that spins up a little more freely and as a result gives you a bit more push through the low and mid range. I’m sure it pulls harder between 5000 and 6000 rpm too, but let’s face it: it’s very hard to find anywhere in this country where you can detect that.
I’d be surprised if you moved from a Vanq to an Vanq S and felt blown away by a step change in power. More likely - I suspect - is that the overall package of handling, ride and a slightly greater urgency might make you think “this feels like a better car” but leave you struggling to pin down exactly how or why.
Just a bit more top end fizz, it revs out lovely as it is, however having peak power a little higher so over 7k is useable would add to the drama.
jason61c said:
Yeah, I wonder how much of it is just the airbox/secondary decats and map?
Just a bit more top end fizz, it revs out lovely as it is, however having peak power a little higher so over 7k is useable would add to the drama.
From what I can see on the Vanquish the 6spd had the fixed airbox whereas the 8spd had the valved airbox as did the Vanq S.Just a bit more top end fizz, it revs out lovely as it is, however having peak power a little higher so over 7k is useable would add to the drama.
When the valved airbox was deleted from MY17 V12VS it became available to add back in as part of the sport plus pack, which allegedly added 5bhp and 10nm, which seemingly ties in with the difference in 6spd and 8spd Vanquish outputs also.
The decat is actually not a common part of the 595bhp spec either, some models still have cats and are still quoted at 595bhp (AMR Rapide), likewise the AMR Powerkit for the V12VS was available in two versions, with and without a secondary decat, but both were quoted as resulting in the same 595 output, as mad as it seems!
So AM were somewhat inconsistent with quoted outputs and seemingly contradictory variances in the detailed engine specs.
The two main differences consistently quoted however are new magnesium inlet manifolds (visually easy to identify as they are black not white) and an engine remap, so its logical to assume these account for the majority of the improvement.
All that said, as blackwidow put the 595bhp spec engine feels more free revving but you do have to be very used to the 565 output to really notice the change.
AdamV12V said:
jason61c said:
Yeah, I wonder how much of it is just the airbox/secondary decats and map?
Just a bit more top end fizz, it revs out lovely as it is, however having peak power a little higher so over 7k is useable would add to the drama.
From what I can see on the Vanquish the 6spd had the fixed airbox whereas the 8spd had the valved airbox as did the Vanq S.Just a bit more top end fizz, it revs out lovely as it is, however having peak power a little higher so over 7k is useable would add to the drama.
When the valved airbox was deleted from MY17 V12VS it became available to add back in as part of the sport plus pack, which allegedly added 5bhp and 10nm, which seemingly ties in with the difference in 6spd and 8spd Vanquish outputs also.
The decat is actually not a common part of the 595bhp spec either, some models still have cats and are still quoted at 595bhp (AMR Rapide), likewise the AMR Powerkit for the V12VS was available in two versions, with and without a secondary decat, but both were quoted as resulting in the same 595 output, as mad as it seems!
So AM were somewhat inconsistent with quoted outputs and seemingly contradictory variances in the detailed engine specs.
The two main differences consistently quoted however are new magnesium inlet manifolds (visually easy to identify as they are black not white) and an engine remap, so its logical to assume these account for the majority of the improvement.
All that said, as blackwidow put the 595bhp spec engine feels more free revving but you do have to be very used to the 565 output to really notice the change.
jason61c said:
And that's why I'm after seeing if there's a dyno test anywhere.
If a power increase from 565bhp to 595bhp is important to you Jason, then you might want to wait until 2026, for the Aston Martin four motor electric car with 1,200 bhp.
You should experience a staggering improvement in acceleration, but make sure you are concentrating when reaching the first corner, because you will need to defy the principles of physics, to get the car plus 1 ton of batteries round safely.
Jon39 said:
jason61c said:
And that's why I'm after seeing if there's a dyno test anywhere.
If a power increase from 565bhp to 595bhp is important to you Jason, then you might want to wait until 2026, for the Aston Martin four motor electric car with 1,200 bhp.
You should experience a staggering improvement in acceleration, but make sure you are concentrating when reaching the first corner, because you will need to defy the principles of physics, to get the car plus 1 ton of batteries round safely.
Appreciate it is not the same car and the gearing is slightly different between the two cars. But a load of NP Vanquish owners did have group Dyno test a few years back.
Non S is rated at 460 HP and S is rated at 520 HP.
All the S Cars beat the Non S Cars for HP. But not by much. The best Non S was reasonably close to the least powerful S. Less than 20HP difference from memory.
The results will be in the AMOC forum archives. But we all left AMOC because of the terrible way they run the club. But if any of you are members you may be able to find them.
As the gearing is also different the actual on road acceleration is almost identical, and if anything, favours the Non S.
Several of the very active NP Vanquish group have owned both Non S and S versions. All say they prefer the ride of the Non S but prefer the better build quality of the later S cars.
One thing having all the horses for bragging rights, but does the ride and handling make the whole package less enjoyable? Plus, just how often can and will you exploit those extra horses?
Non S is rated at 460 HP and S is rated at 520 HP.
All the S Cars beat the Non S Cars for HP. But not by much. The best Non S was reasonably close to the least powerful S. Less than 20HP difference from memory.
The results will be in the AMOC forum archives. But we all left AMOC because of the terrible way they run the club. But if any of you are members you may be able to find them.
As the gearing is also different the actual on road acceleration is almost identical, and if anything, favours the Non S.
Several of the very active NP Vanquish group have owned both Non S and S versions. All say they prefer the ride of the Non S but prefer the better build quality of the later S cars.
One thing having all the horses for bragging rights, but does the ride and handling make the whole package less enjoyable? Plus, just how often can and will you exploit those extra horses?
what was it with the AMOC?
Thanks for the response, i'm just interested in how the engine might 'feel', compared to the none S. The numbers and info are a bit variable, also i'm not sure how truthful they are? Then there's how it could change the feel of the car. What I do like about the 2015 vanquish is how it can make progress on bumpy A+B roads.
Thanks for the response, i'm just interested in how the engine might 'feel', compared to the none S. The numbers and info are a bit variable, also i'm not sure how truthful they are? Then there's how it could change the feel of the car. What I do like about the 2015 vanquish is how it can make progress on bumpy A+B roads.
jason61c said:
what was it with the AMOC?
Thanks for the response, i'm just interested in how the engine might 'feel', compared to the none S. The numbers and info are a bit variable, also i'm not sure how truthful they are? Then there's how it could change the feel of the car. What I do like about the 2015 vanquish is how it can make progress on bumpy A+B roads.
Would take me weeks to explain how badly run AMOC became. Sometimes it's easier to just move on.Thanks for the response, i'm just interested in how the engine might 'feel', compared to the none S. The numbers and info are a bit variable, also i'm not sure how truthful they are? Then there's how it could change the feel of the car. What I do like about the 2015 vanquish is how it can make progress on bumpy A+B roads.
With the NP Vanquish it seems that 460HP was a modest claim and the VQS at 520HP might have been a little boastful. But only a little. I think 7 cars tested and all had different figures. With decent variation.
The standard NP Vanquish is probably the quicker on most routes, lower gearing and more supple. If it had the S brakes it would beat it pretty much all the time unless on very smooth clean roads. It is simply too firm. Track focused suspension on a car not suited to the track.
The David Such brake discs improve the standard car a lot from original discs though. But the car could still do with better.
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