2019 Vantage Manual or AMR - first Aston - what to expect
Discussion
I've been obsessing over my upcoming first super-sports/supercar purchase and considered just about everything. Yes, I have a decision matrix in Excel (/engineer).
The latest one that my heart has gravitated towards is the current Vantage manual in either AMR or "normal" form.
I have not owned an Aston before but friends have and they complained about the cost of Aston parts.
So my questions:
- Depreciation is the elephant in the room; I am looking at circa £80-90k max budget, but a bigger question is the arse going to fall out of it in 6 months? Or has the bulk already gone due to the offer that AML did a few years back? Aston isn't a great brand for depreciation based on me following the market over the years....I guess if I want the badge, that is something I have to accept?
- Engaging/enjoyable experience: I'm looking for a car that fits two bills:
1) Is engaging to drive, something you want to go out and just enjoy (I am coming from an Elise which tbh is too extreme most of the time so I don't bother - I want great feel, but without the faff), so it needs to be nuanced, enjoyable on the road (track days may happen)
2) Will work on road trips (summer 24 planning Le Mans 24hr and a trip through Spain - it should be able to do both without being exhausting, but also fun, and practical enough for two people to take luggage
- Cost to run/service: some solid motorway mpg would be nice (30mpg possible?). I know they come with a 5 year servicing plan, which I might catch the tail end of, but generally what are the expenses involved? Ignore tyres.
- Warranty: I had looked at McLaren Sport Series and got a bit scared about trying to run without the warranty; of course if required I can afford to, but it just seemed too much for that car. It's competitors like the 911 and AMG GT (C or R) seem quite bullet proof in this regard; is this car comparable?
My other options are:
- AMG GT C or R (prefer R but it's a bit out of budget)
- 991.2 GTS
- 991.2 T
Sorry for the long intro.
The latest one that my heart has gravitated towards is the current Vantage manual in either AMR or "normal" form.
I have not owned an Aston before but friends have and they complained about the cost of Aston parts.
So my questions:
- Depreciation is the elephant in the room; I am looking at circa £80-90k max budget, but a bigger question is the arse going to fall out of it in 6 months? Or has the bulk already gone due to the offer that AML did a few years back? Aston isn't a great brand for depreciation based on me following the market over the years....I guess if I want the badge, that is something I have to accept?
- Engaging/enjoyable experience: I'm looking for a car that fits two bills:
1) Is engaging to drive, something you want to go out and just enjoy (I am coming from an Elise which tbh is too extreme most of the time so I don't bother - I want great feel, but without the faff), so it needs to be nuanced, enjoyable on the road (track days may happen)
2) Will work on road trips (summer 24 planning Le Mans 24hr and a trip through Spain - it should be able to do both without being exhausting, but also fun, and practical enough for two people to take luggage
- Cost to run/service: some solid motorway mpg would be nice (30mpg possible?). I know they come with a 5 year servicing plan, which I might catch the tail end of, but generally what are the expenses involved? Ignore tyres.
- Warranty: I had looked at McLaren Sport Series and got a bit scared about trying to run without the warranty; of course if required I can afford to, but it just seemed too much for that car. It's competitors like the 911 and AMG GT (C or R) seem quite bullet proof in this regard; is this car comparable?
My other options are:
- AMG GT C or R (prefer R but it's a bit out of budget)
- 991.2 GTS
- 991.2 T
Sorry for the long intro.
"if you think you can only just afford to own an Aston, then think on"
Several times over the years I've put my rotbox away for a few years, needs must, but it's occasionally been a false economy because recommissioning costs can seriously bite
It's probably cheaper to make new parts from unicorn poo than pay AML's spares prices for current cars. I'm lucky though that my car has no electronics to speak of, a diode in the clock, a resistor in the ignition circuit, and some more bits in the radio
Motorway mpg around 21-22, press on more like 15, worst case 8 (cold engine, full choke). Warranty expired 18 Oct 1963
Several times over the years I've put my rotbox away for a few years, needs must, but it's occasionally been a false economy because recommissioning costs can seriously bite
It's probably cheaper to make new parts from unicorn poo than pay AML's spares prices for current cars. I'm lucky though that my car has no electronics to speak of, a diode in the clock, a resistor in the ignition circuit, and some more bits in the radio
Motorway mpg around 21-22, press on more like 15, worst case 8 (cold engine, full choke). Warranty expired 18 Oct 1963
Edited by DB4DM on Friday 3rd November 19:33
OP, I have the previous (VH) Gen Vantage S, so can’t comment fully on your prospective purchase.
Worth noting though, current Vantages came with a five year service package and your budget might cover examples with some of that left. That’ll help, but as others have said no part will be cheap. Also Timeless examples are within your budget which should give some assurances.
Regarding prices/depreciation - probably difficult to say but I suspect they haven’t bottomed out. Not sure if you are aware, but face lift is rumoured for next month. There’s a suggestion base price is going to go up a fair amount, so who knows what that means. Could be worth waiting?
Compared to others on your list, they will be different though. I had a 991.1 and objectively a better car than my Aston. Would I go back? No, as subjectively it is a much more fulfilling car and I can live with what performance purists might see as limitations. The new Vantage though does have impressive performance stats.
Good luck with search.
Worth noting though, current Vantages came with a five year service package and your budget might cover examples with some of that left. That’ll help, but as others have said no part will be cheap. Also Timeless examples are within your budget which should give some assurances.
Regarding prices/depreciation - probably difficult to say but I suspect they haven’t bottomed out. Not sure if you are aware, but face lift is rumoured for next month. There’s a suggestion base price is going to go up a fair amount, so who knows what that means. Could be worth waiting?
Compared to others on your list, they will be different though. I had a 991.1 and objectively a better car than my Aston. Would I go back? No, as subjectively it is a much more fulfilling car and I can live with what performance purists might see as limitations. The new Vantage though does have impressive performance stats.
Good luck with search.
GroundEffect said:
I've been obsessing over my upcoming first super-sports/supercar purchase and considered just about everything. Yes, I have a decision matrix in Excel (/engineer).
The latest one that my heart has gravitated towards is the current Vantage manual in either AMR or "normal" form.
I have not owned an Aston before but friends have and they complained about the cost of Aston parts.
So my questions:
- Depreciation is the elephant in the room; I am looking at circa £80-90k max budget, but a bigger question is the arse going to fall out of it in 6 months? Or has the bulk already gone due to the offer that AML did a few years back? Aston isn't a great brand for depreciation based on me following the market over the years....I guess if I want the badge, that is something I have to accept? ...
The latest one that my heart has gravitated towards is the current Vantage manual in either AMR or "normal" form.
I have not owned an Aston before but friends have and they complained about the cost of Aston parts.
So my questions:
- Depreciation is the elephant in the room; I am looking at circa £80-90k max budget, but a bigger question is the arse going to fall out of it in 6 months? Or has the bulk already gone due to the offer that AML did a few years back? Aston isn't a great brand for depreciation based on me following the market over the years....I guess if I want the badge, that is something I have to accept? ...
Welcome.
Aston Martin depreciation.
I purchased a 2½ year old V8 Vantage for £60k.
Twelve happy years later, it is probably now worth £40k, but I would never sell such a wonderful car.
That is depreciation of just £1,600 per year (ignoring inflation), so it might be better than buying a new 1 litre Ford Fiesta.
Servicing and maintenance over the past 4 years has totalled about £1,800 at an Indie, but admittedly a low mileage during that period.
Aston Martin are desperate to increase their poor sports car sales. An improved version of the V8 Vantage is due to be launched (anticipated end of this year, or early next year).
Edited by Dewi 2 on Friday 3rd November 20:11
GroundEffect said:
Talked about car ownership
Man, I think you`ve come to a less than ideal place to discuss the merits of an AMG Vantage. Everybody here will try and shift you to a VH platform V12 Vantage, or Vanquish... oh wait, that`s already happened!?! If you like the old look, sound and more graceful/stylish interior of the VH cars with the "genuine" Aston engines, then the new cars were, and still are, a hard pill to swallow for many. The V12 is a glorious thing and you feel quite superior moving around the masses in one, but I would not want it on a track compared to a V8. The new Vantage however, is an infinitely better car to drive than the older V12 in my opinion. It is sharp, precise and bloody fast.
I have not been in an Elise but have driven and Exige S and yes, that as an experience is extreme and as close to a race car feeling as you can get, going to a VH car would feel rather tame.
The new Vantage would be a great landing place for you, me thinks. AMG GT, love the look of them but they are really big! I know a couple of part-time racers that have dismissed them for this alone. 911, yeah, excellent car, does everything wonderfully, you`ll certainly do better lap times with less effort, but Porsche, meh, the Toyota of super-sports cars.
With depreciation, the arse does drop out of Astons traditionally, but only to a point. They seem to drop like a stone for a couple of years, slow down for a couple more, then kinda level out. Buying a five year old Vantage now would probably not see you lose a kidney, but I`m no economic soothsayer. Parts can be expensive, trick is to have a car that doesn`t need them!
Also a GOOD independent rather than the dealership can save a considerable amount when it comes to repairs and maintenance.The Vantage has good space for road trips, is an easy GT when you need it to be, plus a punisher on the twisty stuff.
I think your Excel decision matrix is leading you in the right direction. As always, get out for a decent test drive, 10 minutes in a car can tell you a lot, a weekend even more!
All the best!
Thanks for the feedback those above. Some great insights.
For the record, I'm not buying until the spring (it's a 3rd car and won't be used over our already horrendous winter so what's the point right now... especially when the market is generally dropping from the high of COVID). So yes, I'll keep an eye on the new Vantage. I really really like the DB12 so it'll be interesting to see what they've done with the Vantage.
Another car I didn't add to the list is 991.2 Turbo. A bit more up the luxury line and a freight train.
Indeed I have lots of test driving to do...but as you've said, a test drive doesn't tell you very much. Let's see how generous/desperate they are for foot traffic and let me get extended drives.
Note: why I'm looking at manual is that it's unique in this sector (apart from 911) and it's a good chunk lighter than the auto, bringing up the performance to where the car ought to be.
For the record, I'm not buying until the spring (it's a 3rd car and won't be used over our already horrendous winter so what's the point right now... especially when the market is generally dropping from the high of COVID). So yes, I'll keep an eye on the new Vantage. I really really like the DB12 so it'll be interesting to see what they've done with the Vantage.
Another car I didn't add to the list is 991.2 Turbo. A bit more up the luxury line and a freight train.
Indeed I have lots of test driving to do...but as you've said, a test drive doesn't tell you very much. Let's see how generous/desperate they are for foot traffic and let me get extended drives.
Note: why I'm looking at manual is that it's unique in this sector (apart from 911) and it's a good chunk lighter than the auto, bringing up the performance to where the car ought to be.
mate, one engineer to another, put away your spreadsheets. Any high performance car is going to cost you to run. If you can get together 90k for purchase, then the running costs of anything under 5yr old shouldn’t worry you.
To not get stung too much by depreciation, just buy at 2-3 yr old.
As others have said, this is the wrong forum to ask for opinion on the soon-to-become-older newer stuff. This forum is predominantly the haunt of afficionados of the older n/a stuff.
Advice ? If you love the looks of the more modern Vantage (and good for you, cos I don’t) - then test drive it. This is a purchase of the heart not the head, so forget the spreadsheets, drive the things. listen to your heart and only apply head logic to ensure you aren’t buying an accident damaged/crashed/thrashed dog (like I did), that you are getting the spec you want, the colour you want. If you find something ideal, don’t worry about what it costs. Buying from a decent main dealer like Walton or Bristol is definitely recommended. For lots of reasons.
Just buy what you love, what makes you feel good, what makes your heart race, and what stops you in your tracks to turn round and have another look at.
Good luck, let us know how you get on, don’t forget to post photos, remember not to pay any attention to the opinions of others, and above all post a photo!
To not get stung too much by depreciation, just buy at 2-3 yr old.
As others have said, this is the wrong forum to ask for opinion on the soon-to-become-older newer stuff. This forum is predominantly the haunt of afficionados of the older n/a stuff.
Advice ? If you love the looks of the more modern Vantage (and good for you, cos I don’t) - then test drive it. This is a purchase of the heart not the head, so forget the spreadsheets, drive the things. listen to your heart and only apply head logic to ensure you aren’t buying an accident damaged/crashed/thrashed dog (like I did), that you are getting the spec you want, the colour you want. If you find something ideal, don’t worry about what it costs. Buying from a decent main dealer like Walton or Bristol is definitely recommended. For lots of reasons.
Just buy what you love, what makes you feel good, what makes your heart race, and what stops you in your tracks to turn round and have another look at.
Good luck, let us know how you get on, don’t forget to post photos, remember not to pay any attention to the opinions of others, and above all post a photo!
GroundEffect said:
Thanks for the feedback those above. Some great insights.
I really really like the DB12 so it'll be interesting to see what they've done with the Vantage.
Thinking is new new Vantage will get similar front end treatment and updated infotainment, but a proportional price rise akin to the one applied to DB11 too. I really really like the DB12 so it'll be interesting to see what they've done with the Vantage.
GroundEffect said:
jason61c said:
What about a vanquish? So much more special than the Porsche’s you’ve mentioned
A bit old; more GT than sportscar? Can't imagine cheap to run at all!I am basically hoping the new Vantage has taken AML in a new direction of being less painful to run....
good on fuel, a fairly simple car, slow depreciation. amazing looks and carbon body. you can get a warranty for a couple of £k. given the issues with mos modern Porsche products, it'd be more reliable.
Biggest issue with the AMR Vantage is the dogleg manual gearbox which means no e diff and less torque. There are known issues shall we say with the gear change as well.
For those that have tried the manual box I know more that have disliked it than have liked it. Also, as MB never had the M177/AE22 with a manual it caused friction between them and AM and any engine issue is picked up by Gaydon, it may influence whether issues are covered shall we say.
Personally try the ZF auto and the manual, you may be surprised. It also makes choice easier.
Most willstill have 5yo service packs still, but I don't find servicing overly costly.
So far minus paint issues which has been my biggest issue (2021 AM started sending bodies from Gaydon to St Athen to be painted and back to Gaydon for completion). Pre that that microblisters are common.
Issues with mine - coolant fault false positive, oil level sensor being drunk, window regulator, headlight switch and diff cooling plate leak and a burnt exhaust trim.
Coolant fault nothing found but £170, £0 on the rest due to extended warranty (warranty was £1800) but they have paid out nearer £2350 including goodwill bits, the paint well I have had driver's 3/4, roof, bonnet and passenger door done. I have had the other 3/4 done st my own cost to resolve some scratching the car had from the previous owner. I guess that little lot was probably lots!
For those that have tried the manual box I know more that have disliked it than have liked it. Also, as MB never had the M177/AE22 with a manual it caused friction between them and AM and any engine issue is picked up by Gaydon, it may influence whether issues are covered shall we say.
Personally try the ZF auto and the manual, you may be surprised. It also makes choice easier.
Most willstill have 5yo service packs still, but I don't find servicing overly costly.
So far minus paint issues which has been my biggest issue (2021 AM started sending bodies from Gaydon to St Athen to be painted and back to Gaydon for completion). Pre that that microblisters are common.
Issues with mine - coolant fault false positive, oil level sensor being drunk, window regulator, headlight switch and diff cooling plate leak and a burnt exhaust trim.
Coolant fault nothing found but £170, £0 on the rest due to extended warranty (warranty was £1800) but they have paid out nearer £2350 including goodwill bits, the paint well I have had driver's 3/4, roof, bonnet and passenger door done. I have had the other 3/4 done st my own cost to resolve some scratching the car had from the previous owner. I guess that little lot was probably lots!
Edited by Ninja59 on Friday 3rd November 22:14
As always a very good explanation from Ninja. The manuals are fitted with the seven speed dog leg from the previous generation Gaydon V12VS, which allows less torque than the standard automatic versions, and has no e-diff too. I’ve never driven a seven speed manual car, but the design of the gear lever in the later V8 cars is dreadful imho. I don’t know if it’s possible to switch the lever over to another type/design, but I guess it’s only a small detail so perhaps not necessarily a deal breaker. Views on the gearbox itself are mixed. Most of the journos reviewed it after spending very little time driving, so by and large didn’t get along with it. Long term owners on here are much more complimentary. I guess it’s takes a bit of getting used to. AdamV12V is probably the best person to ask on here about it imho. There are a few for sale, the top end of the market being the “59” cars which were launched before the standard run. But they are all fairly rare, and weren’t produced for very long. AP always said a manual gearbox would be fitted, but the demand was just not there, and later it was quietly canned. In my experience the auto gearbox is very good, and personally I would stick with that if I were in the market for one. Having said that, the rarity of the manuals may make them less vulnerable to as much depreciation as the standard auto. Only time will tell I guess. Good luck with your search. Please report back if you do get one. BRM.
I looked at the same conundrum for a 2 seater.
Drove a manual AMR and liked it, but very ‘faffy’ for day to day driving IMO and might get a bit tiresome on a road trip. Rare in that it is the only manual amg v8 which I kinda liked, but its rare for a reason….
Friend has a 992 GTS, nice car but boring. Depreciation isn’t great either despite the myth you cant loose much on 911s.
GTC - if you are going to get one you want the dynamic plus package which is like hen’s teeth. I waited for one for over a year to come up and nothing.
The auto Vantage is a good car, friend has one and loves it, depreciated a bit but they will take a bigger hit when the new Vantage comes out next year as they have never been that in demand due to the subjective looks.
Drove a manual AMR and liked it, but very ‘faffy’ for day to day driving IMO and might get a bit tiresome on a road trip. Rare in that it is the only manual amg v8 which I kinda liked, but its rare for a reason….
Friend has a 992 GTS, nice car but boring. Depreciation isn’t great either despite the myth you cant loose much on 911s.
GTC - if you are going to get one you want the dynamic plus package which is like hen’s teeth. I waited for one for over a year to come up and nothing.
The auto Vantage is a good car, friend has one and loves it, depreciated a bit but they will take a bigger hit when the new Vantage comes out next year as they have never been that in demand due to the subjective looks.
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