Looking for a Unicorn… ?
Discussion
Some of you may have spotted that I’ve been looking for a V12V for some months now..
I’ve seen at least a dozen. Some were in a shocking state, having never been loved by their previous owners.
Some were amazing examples, but these were unfortunately out of my price bracket.. That said, they did give a good indication of what a great example should be like.
So I’ve been fishing in the murky waters of the middle ground, and let me tell you it’s a tough place to be.
My budget is 65k - 75k and in this area you have a cross over between motor traders and main dealers but the overlap is small and the majority cars in this price range seem to be outside the main dealer network.
I was very interested in a Flugplatz blue car, and would have paid close to the asking price, but the independent dealer would not agree to a pre purchase inspection.
I then found what I thought was a great low mileage 2010 V12 Manual , it was the right price, it looked great and drove really well, and to cap it off the trader was happy for me to have it inspected by a well known specialist.
I was getting very excited, I’d booked a detail and PPF fitment, had the insurance lined up, everything ready to go.
It was then that I received the call and was told that the car had significant rear subframe corrosion that would need to be dealt with pretty much immediately. Also, a lot of the suspension components were badly corroded and that there was a significant 6th gear whine. The car had spent a considerable amount of its life in the Highlands, whether this is the reason for the high level of corrosion is probably debatable.
I went back to the trader with the bad news….. Now, it transpires that this car belongs to a wealthy individual who has considerable clout with AM and I was told that all the issues would be resolved. So I thought ok, let’s see what happens. The car was returned to the AM dealership, and as I expected, the majority of the points raised in the PPI were refuted or brushed away as acceptable for the age of the vehicle.
I also did some sleuthing on the gearbox issue and found a number of threads here that talk about 6th gear whine. I also called an Aston Gearbox repairer in Hitchin, who said this is a fairly common problem and that should it be required, a repair would be 6k - 7k. Apparently it’s due to a lubrication issue, because 6th gear is the furthest from the oil pump it can suffer form oil starvation.
So what are the take aways from this. well, firstly I believe a PPI is essential on these cars now, thats a given.
Secondly, you have to ask why an AM dealer and the Independent specialist appear to be so far apart in their views on the condition of this car. I’m sure there will be some opinions posted
Thirdly, am I expecting too much. Personally I don’t think so.. While acceptable wear and tear is a factor, no one wants to be looking at 15K bill to get the car right post purchase.
And one last point, the car in question had only done 15,000 miles.
When I bought my first V12V a decade ago it was a great experience, but at that point I had the factory warranty to fall back on.. Now it seems the secondhand market has turned in to the wild west.
This experience has taken the wind out of my sales a bit, but I’m going to keep on looking and hopefully I will find my unicorn.
Merry xmas one and all..
I’ve seen at least a dozen. Some were in a shocking state, having never been loved by their previous owners.
Some were amazing examples, but these were unfortunately out of my price bracket.. That said, they did give a good indication of what a great example should be like.
So I’ve been fishing in the murky waters of the middle ground, and let me tell you it’s a tough place to be.
My budget is 65k - 75k and in this area you have a cross over between motor traders and main dealers but the overlap is small and the majority cars in this price range seem to be outside the main dealer network.
I was very interested in a Flugplatz blue car, and would have paid close to the asking price, but the independent dealer would not agree to a pre purchase inspection.
I then found what I thought was a great low mileage 2010 V12 Manual , it was the right price, it looked great and drove really well, and to cap it off the trader was happy for me to have it inspected by a well known specialist.
I was getting very excited, I’d booked a detail and PPF fitment, had the insurance lined up, everything ready to go.
It was then that I received the call and was told that the car had significant rear subframe corrosion that would need to be dealt with pretty much immediately. Also, a lot of the suspension components were badly corroded and that there was a significant 6th gear whine. The car had spent a considerable amount of its life in the Highlands, whether this is the reason for the high level of corrosion is probably debatable.
I went back to the trader with the bad news….. Now, it transpires that this car belongs to a wealthy individual who has considerable clout with AM and I was told that all the issues would be resolved. So I thought ok, let’s see what happens. The car was returned to the AM dealership, and as I expected, the majority of the points raised in the PPI were refuted or brushed away as acceptable for the age of the vehicle.
I also did some sleuthing on the gearbox issue and found a number of threads here that talk about 6th gear whine. I also called an Aston Gearbox repairer in Hitchin, who said this is a fairly common problem and that should it be required, a repair would be 6k - 7k. Apparently it’s due to a lubrication issue, because 6th gear is the furthest from the oil pump it can suffer form oil starvation.
So what are the take aways from this. well, firstly I believe a PPI is essential on these cars now, thats a given.
Secondly, you have to ask why an AM dealer and the Independent specialist appear to be so far apart in their views on the condition of this car. I’m sure there will be some opinions posted
Thirdly, am I expecting too much. Personally I don’t think so.. While acceptable wear and tear is a factor, no one wants to be looking at 15K bill to get the car right post purchase.
And one last point, the car in question had only done 15,000 miles.
When I bought my first V12V a decade ago it was a great experience, but at that point I had the factory warranty to fall back on.. Now it seems the secondhand market has turned in to the wild west.
This experience has taken the wind out of my sales a bit, but I’m going to keep on looking and hopefully I will find my unicorn.
Merry xmas one and all..
Sorry that your search is proving difficult but it will make it all the more satisfying when you do find the right car.
The main dealers are the cause of a significant amount of the deferred maintenance we are now seeing in these cars because the servicing regime does not involve a proper inspection or service. Perhaps therefore, not so surprising that they disagree with the significance of the findings of a proper inspection. Clearly, an Indy has a vested interest in finding things that need correction in a PPI but unless it fails an MOT you are not obliged to do the work. It falls to your judgement what is necessary/wise/optional.
Unfortunately, corrosion does appear to be a significant problem in cars used year round in the UK, even with lower mileages. I'm not sure if anyone has failed their MOT for a corroded rear subframe yet but it would be a brave person that ignores the advice to repair this when it's still repairable given the cost of a new subframe form the factory (which is also probably on back-order).
Regarding the gearbox whine: there have been several posters on here over the last 10 years that have had V12V gearboxes replaced under MD warranty because of this problem. Not sure how they can now say it's not a problem when they previously replaced them despite the huge expense.
There will be cars out there that haven't been driven through salt every winter and have no deferred maintenance. Personally, I think these are more likely to be private sales because those owners would be unhappy with the deal dealers were offering them for their perfectly maintained car. How about these with a bit negotiated off the asking price?
https://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-details/202311184...
https://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-details/202307250...
The main dealers are the cause of a significant amount of the deferred maintenance we are now seeing in these cars because the servicing regime does not involve a proper inspection or service. Perhaps therefore, not so surprising that they disagree with the significance of the findings of a proper inspection. Clearly, an Indy has a vested interest in finding things that need correction in a PPI but unless it fails an MOT you are not obliged to do the work. It falls to your judgement what is necessary/wise/optional.
Unfortunately, corrosion does appear to be a significant problem in cars used year round in the UK, even with lower mileages. I'm not sure if anyone has failed their MOT for a corroded rear subframe yet but it would be a brave person that ignores the advice to repair this when it's still repairable given the cost of a new subframe form the factory (which is also probably on back-order).
Regarding the gearbox whine: there have been several posters on here over the last 10 years that have had V12V gearboxes replaced under MD warranty because of this problem. Not sure how they can now say it's not a problem when they previously replaced them despite the huge expense.
There will be cars out there that haven't been driven through salt every winter and have no deferred maintenance. Personally, I think these are more likely to be private sales because those owners would be unhappy with the deal dealers were offering them for their perfectly maintained car. How about these with a bit negotiated off the asking price?
https://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-details/202311184...
https://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-details/202307250...
Hi Pete... Sage words indeed!
I have looked at the Green car.. It's a nice example but the owner was pretty clear that the price was the price.
I also messaged the owner of the Black car and at that time he indicated that he didn't want to sell the car and would be removing it from AT... I've messaged him again as I will be down that way over xmas..
I have looked at the Green car.. It's a nice example but the owner was pretty clear that the price was the price.
I also messaged the owner of the Black car and at that time he indicated that he didn't want to sell the car and would be removing it from AT... I've messaged him again as I will be down that way over xmas..
I don’t think you’re asking too much, but there is a balance to be had. These cars are more than 10 years old now, and things will show wear at that point - irrespective of the mileage. It may be that you’re expecting a now 10 year old car to show the wear of a 5 year old car.
I don’t think main dealers are that good either, but there is a lot of weight on a full history. My experience was that the main dealer overlooked things that I had expected them to pick up quickly - an independent identified those things within half an hour of looking at the car.
The subframe is an interesting topic - independents are evangelical about the need to maintain them as service / wear items, while the main dealers seem disinterested. I suspect that a main dealer simply doesn’t want to do the work, but I’m not sure why. Perhaps they haven’t seen failures?
For what it’s worth, I bought a car with full main dealer history and timeless warranty which presented really well, but had a few issues over time - mainly due to the quality and scope of the previous servicing. Had I arranged a pre purchase inspection I might have negotiated even more off, but to be fair the other cars in that price range (ie my original budget plus the repairs) are the ones that you’re looking at now and, as you have discovered, are not without their own issues.
The biggest issue with the v12 vantage seems to be looking at alternatives - they all have problems, be they mechanical or image.
I don’t think main dealers are that good either, but there is a lot of weight on a full history. My experience was that the main dealer overlooked things that I had expected them to pick up quickly - an independent identified those things within half an hour of looking at the car.
The subframe is an interesting topic - independents are evangelical about the need to maintain them as service / wear items, while the main dealers seem disinterested. I suspect that a main dealer simply doesn’t want to do the work, but I’m not sure why. Perhaps they haven’t seen failures?
For what it’s worth, I bought a car with full main dealer history and timeless warranty which presented really well, but had a few issues over time - mainly due to the quality and scope of the previous servicing. Had I arranged a pre purchase inspection I might have negotiated even more off, but to be fair the other cars in that price range (ie my original budget plus the repairs) are the ones that you’re looking at now and, as you have discovered, are not without their own issues.
The biggest issue with the v12 vantage seems to be looking at alternatives - they all have problems, be they mechanical or image.
Looking can be a lot of fun... until it's not. I'd suggest that if you feel it's getting the point that the car you're looking for doesn't exist at the price point you're looking for, either look to pay more for a car that has all the factors that make you happy or even consider a different model/make.
I'd always suggest following the advice that you try to buy the best of a particular model. If that's not in reach, don't compromise and change what you're looking for.
On the matter of the subframe, surface corrosion isn't a great look, but I doubt many have got to the stage of structural weakness. Overall suspension on any car deteriorates with time, regardless of use, as the rubber/nylon/perishable elements break down.
Peronally, I'd go for a later V12S with more miles from an AM main dealer. Rather than negotiate a discount, try to add one or two more years warranty to take it up to 3 years. I've benefitted from the AM warranty several times and thoroughly recommend them. It won't cover things like removing surface corrosion from a subframe, but for critical stuff, it's worth every penny.
Also, the 7 speed sport shift REALLY suits the V12S. There's a lot of media rubbish about these automated manual 'boxes, but the SSII and SSIII are brilliant if thought of as a manual (which is what it is, really - just with paddles and not a stick).
A VERY brief look on AM's used stock and the first result is very good in my opinion:
https://preowned.astonmartin.com/en_gb/vdp/2522130...
...the 2016 car with the lovely lightweight seats plus contrast interior. I also think the 50k miles is a good sign as that means the car's been used and should have been sorted by now. At just over 6k miles/year, that's good.
Less miles = more costly, naturally. Here's one for £77k at Cheltenham:
https://preowned.astonmartin.com/en_gb/vdp/2522742...
...which is strangely about the same price as the equivalent miles orginal V12 Vantage manual at the same place:
https://preowned.astonmartin.com/en_gb/vdp/2522293...
The S is a more developed car.
I was about to write that I'd probably opt for the higher mileage one and enjoy driving it to 100k miles. But then I just saw this from HWM (who I can really recommend dealing with). A lovely example:
https://preowned.astonmartin.com/en_gb/vdp/2522956...
There you go. Sorted
I'd always suggest following the advice that you try to buy the best of a particular model. If that's not in reach, don't compromise and change what you're looking for.
On the matter of the subframe, surface corrosion isn't a great look, but I doubt many have got to the stage of structural weakness. Overall suspension on any car deteriorates with time, regardless of use, as the rubber/nylon/perishable elements break down.
Peronally, I'd go for a later V12S with more miles from an AM main dealer. Rather than negotiate a discount, try to add one or two more years warranty to take it up to 3 years. I've benefitted from the AM warranty several times and thoroughly recommend them. It won't cover things like removing surface corrosion from a subframe, but for critical stuff, it's worth every penny.
Also, the 7 speed sport shift REALLY suits the V12S. There's a lot of media rubbish about these automated manual 'boxes, but the SSII and SSIII are brilliant if thought of as a manual (which is what it is, really - just with paddles and not a stick).
A VERY brief look on AM's used stock and the first result is very good in my opinion:
https://preowned.astonmartin.com/en_gb/vdp/2522130...
...the 2016 car with the lovely lightweight seats plus contrast interior. I also think the 50k miles is a good sign as that means the car's been used and should have been sorted by now. At just over 6k miles/year, that's good.
Less miles = more costly, naturally. Here's one for £77k at Cheltenham:
https://preowned.astonmartin.com/en_gb/vdp/2522742...
...which is strangely about the same price as the equivalent miles orginal V12 Vantage manual at the same place:
https://preowned.astonmartin.com/en_gb/vdp/2522293...
The S is a more developed car.
I was about to write that I'd probably opt for the higher mileage one and enjoy driving it to 100k miles. But then I just saw this from HWM (who I can really recommend dealing with). A lovely example:
https://preowned.astonmartin.com/en_gb/vdp/2522956...
There you go. Sorted
Thanks for all the comments.. I agree, that a fair amount of corrosion is to be expected. However, the car I was looking at was at the point where intervention was required. Would it pass an MOT, yes. But there are 2 issues here, firstly its unlikely that an MOT inspection would be able to ascertain the full extent of the corrosion as they can't remove the rear under-tray to do so, and secondly, if it was a fail, then the opportunity has been missed to undertake corrective action when the cost would have been far lower..
According to what I've seen on the BR Youtube channel, subframes are no longer available, so you would need to find a secondhand one.. A BR replacement, where they swap for a reconditioned donor frame, costs about 4k.
I am tempted by the V12S ... I've driven a couple.. But those test drives have been relatively short and although I'm not adverse to the Automated manual, it does feel bit odd.
I also really like the lightweight seats.. I find them really comfy. I did have a V8V with the sports seats and I found they gave me a numb bum after an hour or so of driving.. May be the sports seats in the newer V12 are better.. but again difficult to gauge without an extended test drive..
According to what I've seen on the BR Youtube channel, subframes are no longer available, so you would need to find a secondhand one.. A BR replacement, where they swap for a reconditioned donor frame, costs about 4k.
I am tempted by the V12S ... I've driven a couple.. But those test drives have been relatively short and although I'm not adverse to the Automated manual, it does feel bit odd.
I also really like the lightweight seats.. I find them really comfy. I did have a V8V with the sports seats and I found they gave me a numb bum after an hour or so of driving.. May be the sports seats in the newer V12 are better.. but again difficult to gauge without an extended test drive..
Edited by CatalystV12V on Wednesday 20th December 11:45
V8V Pete said:
Sorry that your search is proving difficult but it will make it all the more satisfying when you do find the right car.
The main dealers are the cause of a significant amount of the deferred maintenance we are now seeing in these cars because the servicing regime does not involve a proper inspection or service. Perhaps therefore, not so surprising that they disagree with the significance of the findings of a proper inspection. Clearly, an Indy has a vested interest in finding things that need correction in a PPI but unless it fails an MOT you are not obliged to do the work. It falls to your judgement what is necessary/wise/optional.
Unfortunately, corrosion does appear to be a significant problem in cars used year round in the UK, even with lower mileages. I'm not sure if anyone has failed their MOT for a corroded rear subframe yet but it would be a brave person that ignores the advice to repair this when it's still repairable given the cost of a new subframe form the factory (which is also probably on back-order).
Regarding the gearbox whine: there have been several posters on here over the last 10 years that have had V12V gearboxes replaced under MD warranty because of this problem. Not sure how they can now say it's not a problem when they previously replaced them despite the huge expense.
There will be cars out there that haven't been driven through salt every winter and have no deferred maintenance. Personally, I think these are more likely to be private sales because those owners would be unhappy with the deal dealers were offering them for their perfectly maintained car. How about these with a bit negotiated off the asking price?
https://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-details/202311184...
https://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-details/202307250...
The owner of the black car has just responded to my email.. This car will be available in the spring, not right now. The main dealers are the cause of a significant amount of the deferred maintenance we are now seeing in these cars because the servicing regime does not involve a proper inspection or service. Perhaps therefore, not so surprising that they disagree with the significance of the findings of a proper inspection. Clearly, an Indy has a vested interest in finding things that need correction in a PPI but unless it fails an MOT you are not obliged to do the work. It falls to your judgement what is necessary/wise/optional.
Unfortunately, corrosion does appear to be a significant problem in cars used year round in the UK, even with lower mileages. I'm not sure if anyone has failed their MOT for a corroded rear subframe yet but it would be a brave person that ignores the advice to repair this when it's still repairable given the cost of a new subframe form the factory (which is also probably on back-order).
Regarding the gearbox whine: there have been several posters on here over the last 10 years that have had V12V gearboxes replaced under MD warranty because of this problem. Not sure how they can now say it's not a problem when they previously replaced them despite the huge expense.
There will be cars out there that haven't been driven through salt every winter and have no deferred maintenance. Personally, I think these are more likely to be private sales because those owners would be unhappy with the deal dealers were offering them for their perfectly maintained car. How about these with a bit negotiated off the asking price?
https://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-details/202311184...
https://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-details/202307250...
Assume you've looked at this one but is at the bottom end of your budget, is a manual and has the seats that you are after plus being at the bottom end would presumably leave you a fund for any minor items to be attended to?
https://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-details/202308040...
Or if you are happy with an S, this one looks a good buy to me - £69k for a 2016 car in a good colour. Would be surprised if that is suffering from corrosion etc given its age.
https://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-details/202303095...
https://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-details/202308040...
Or if you are happy with an S, this one looks a good buy to me - £69k for a 2016 car in a good colour. Would be surprised if that is suffering from corrosion etc given its age.
https://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-details/202303095...
NSP said:
Assume you've looked at this one but is at the bottom end of your budget, is a manual and has the seats that you are after plus being at the bottom end would presumably leave you a fund for any minor items to be attended to?
https://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-details/202308040...
Or if you are happy with an S, this one looks a good buy to me - £69k for a 2016 car in a good colour. Would be surprised if that is suffering from corrosion etc given its age.
https://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-details/202303095...
Yes I've looked at both.. The white one wasn't too bad but needed a clutch. The Blue one was one of the poorest examples I've seen and they would let me test drive it unless I paid a deposit.. which I was uncomfortable with doing, for reasons I won't go in to. https://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-details/202308040...
Or if you are happy with an S, this one looks a good buy to me - £69k for a 2016 car in a good colour. Would be surprised if that is suffering from corrosion etc given its age.
https://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-details/202303095...
CatalystV12V said:
Thanks for all the comments.. I agree, that a fair amount of corrosion is to be expected. However, the car I was looking at was at the point where intervention was required. Would it pass an MOT, yes. But there are 2 issues here, firstly its unlikely that an MOT inspection would be able to ascertain the full extent of the corrosion as they can't remove the rear under-tray to do so, and secondly, if it was a fail, then the opportunity has been missed to undertake corrective action when the cost would have been far lower..
According to what I've seen on the BR Youtube channel, subframes are no longer available, so you would need to find a secondhand one.. A BR replacement, where they swap for a reconditioned donor frame, costs about 4k.
That's all fair enough According to what I've seen on the BR Youtube channel, subframes are no longer available, so you would need to find a secondhand one.. A BR replacement, where they swap for a reconditioned donor frame, costs about 4k.
CatalystV12V said:
I am tempted by the V12S ... I've driven a couple.. But those test drives have been relatively short and although I'm not adverse to the Automated manual, it does feel bit odd.
I also really like the lightweight seats.. I find them really comfy. I did have a V8V with the sports seats and I found they gave me a numb bum after an hour or so of driving.. May be the sports seats in the newer V12 are better.. but again difficult to gauge without an extended test drive..
Give the SS transmission a full go. It takes only 30 mins to get the hang of it (in terms of smooth changes and finding the joy of whip-crack changes at the top end when pressing on). It was the ergonomics of the stick in my V8V that made me change and I don't regret it for a moment. I now wouldn't consider a manual Vantage, which is a pity as it rules out the V12 Vantage Zagato. Not that I'm in the market for one... I also really like the lightweight seats.. I find them really comfy. I did have a V8V with the sports seats and I found they gave me a numb bum after an hour or so of driving.. May be the sports seats in the newer V12 are better.. but again difficult to gauge without an extended test drive..
The standard sports seats never changed since the original V12 Vantage to my knowledge. They are peculiar in that they aren't the most comfortable and never have been. I have three seat memory settings so that I can change my position on long journeys to stop me going numb. That was the case with the previous two Vantages too.
The only disadvantages of the lightweight seats are the inability to tilt forward (the rear shelf can be very useful) and the lack of side airbags.
Whilst I think the old adage that if you can’t afford the best example you definitely can’t afford the worst is largely true I do believe there are some exceptions.
I would agree with the advice above regarding a higher mileage but newer car. There is a nonsensical premium to pay for low mileage cars and in addition putting 20k miles on a car with 15k miles on the clock will result in much greater depreciation than putting the same miles on a 50k mile car.
These cars are much better when they’re driven and if serviced regularly the higher mileage example is also likely to be less trouble. The one thing to be wary of in my experience is a tired looking interior as not only is it expensive to fix but suggests the car hasn’t been loved.
Good luck.
I would agree with the advice above regarding a higher mileage but newer car. There is a nonsensical premium to pay for low mileage cars and in addition putting 20k miles on a car with 15k miles on the clock will result in much greater depreciation than putting the same miles on a 50k mile car.
These cars are much better when they’re driven and if serviced regularly the higher mileage example is also likely to be less trouble. The one thing to be wary of in my experience is a tired looking interior as not only is it expensive to fix but suggests the car hasn’t been loved.
Good luck.
I'd be surprised if you haven't seen this one, it's been in my ebay list for months, even though I'm nowhere near a serious shopper yet....
https://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-details/202211141...
https://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-details/202211141...
CatalystV12V said:
Yes I've looked at both.. The white one wasn't too bad but needed a clutch. The Blue one was one of the poorest examples I've seen and they would let me test drive it unless I paid a deposit.. which I was uncomfortable with doing, for reasons I won't go in to.
Would Central Lotus not change the clutch or do you a deal to enable you to get it replaced? Even if they would only knock a bit off the asking price for example and you had to get it done yourself, you would still be at around £68k all in so well within your budget. If it was all good apart from that, it would be worth considering.NSP said:
Would Central Lotus not change the clutch or do you a deal to enable you to get it replaced? Even if they would only knock a bit off the asking price for example and you had to get it done yourself, you would still be at around £68k all in so well within your budget. If it was all good apart from that, it would be worth considering.
You make a good point. It was one of the first I looked at and may be worth a second look in the new year. IIRC the car was being sold on behalf of a private individual, so not their own car…
raceboy said:
I'd be surprised if you haven't seen this one, it's been in my ebay list for months, even though I'm nowhere near a serious shopper yet....
https://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-details/202211141...
Yep seen that one too and test drove it.. made an offer that was rejected. They wouldn’t allow a PPI either.https://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-details/202211141...
It was good car but needed some cosmetic attention to the splitter and carbon grill which had a lot of stone chipping.
This is also an ex press car… so some interesting history.
CatalystV12V said:
Hi Pete... Sage words indeed!
I have looked at the Green car.. It's a nice example but the owner was pretty clear that the price was the price.
I also messaged the owner of the Black car and at that time he indicated that he didn't want to sell the car and would be removing it from AT... I've messaged him again as I will be down that way over xmas..
That green car is amazing, lovely spec and a well written advert!I have looked at the Green car.. It's a nice example but the owner was pretty clear that the price was the price.
I also messaged the owner of the Black car and at that time he indicated that he didn't want to sell the car and would be removing it from AT... I've messaged him again as I will be down that way over xmas..
Not sure if you’ve seen this PH V12 vs V12S article:
https://www.pistonheads.com/news/ph-features-heroe...
Might be useful? I own the black S and a good friend owns the non S.
I think with your budget I would go main dealer AM, or respected AM specialist, with as long a warranty as you can negotiate.
https://www.pistonheads.com/news/ph-features-heroe...
Might be useful? I own the black S and a good friend owns the non S.
I think with your budget I would go main dealer AM, or respected AM specialist, with as long a warranty as you can negotiate.
Edited by Phil74891 on Wednesday 20th December 17:31
Edited by Phil74891 on Wednesday 20th December 17:42
Phil74891 said:
Not sure if you’ve seen this PH V12 vs V12S article:
https://www.pistonheads.com/news/ph-features-heroe...
Might be useful? I own the black S and a good friend owns the non S.
I think with your budget I would go main dealer AM, or respected AM specialist, with as long a warranty as you can negotiate.
An interesting read… thank you. https://www.pistonheads.com/news/ph-features-heroe...
Might be useful? I own the black S and a good friend owns the non S.
I think with your budget I would go main dealer AM, or respected AM specialist, with as long a warranty as you can negotiate.
Edited by Phil74891 on Wednesday 20th December 17:31
Edited by Phil74891 on Wednesday 20th December 17:42
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