Classic Aston as an investment ? (Db4-db6)
Discussion
I seem to be getting a bit of an itch for a classic Aston. With the exception of my classic racing bicycle, all forms forms of transportation I have appeal only to me and teenage boys. They are crass and classless and awesome. BUT, as I age disgracefully, I d like become a bit more
Gentlemen, so I m musing on some timeless classic decorum.
I fear db5 s are beyond what Im comfy spending, alas, but there appear to be some db4 or db6s that look ice cool.
https://www.pistonheads.com/buy/listing/18561582?s... (was 299)
https://www.carandclassic.com/car/C1998135 (165)
I don t really know too much about classic Astons, other than they are achingly cool. From what I can see they made about 1,000 db4,5&6, obviously the db5 is the James bond one . But other than that the other models look great to my eye, probably preferring the covered style lights.
Does anyone have any good steer to go to research market and ownership style stuff? Have they had their day or do they still have potential to appreciate? The fact I really one means I can imagine others feel the same and there aren t THAT many in grand scheme . But market looks very illiquid. Cars I ve noted sit for a long time for sale, is there a massive dealer spread and private-private sales operate at a different price point?
Very nascent noodling, but I keep coming back to the classifieds on these, which means something, Usually something silly.
Gentlemen, so I m musing on some timeless classic decorum.
I fear db5 s are beyond what Im comfy spending, alas, but there appear to be some db4 or db6s that look ice cool.
https://www.pistonheads.com/buy/listing/18561582?s... (was 299)
https://www.carandclassic.com/car/C1998135 (165)
I don t really know too much about classic Astons, other than they are achingly cool. From what I can see they made about 1,000 db4,5&6, obviously the db5 is the James bond one . But other than that the other models look great to my eye, probably preferring the covered style lights.
Does anyone have any good steer to go to research market and ownership style stuff? Have they had their day or do they still have potential to appreciate? The fact I really one means I can imagine others feel the same and there aren t THAT many in grand scheme . But market looks very illiquid. Cars I ve noted sit for a long time for sale, is there a massive dealer spread and private-private sales operate at a different price point?
Very nascent noodling, but I keep coming back to the classifieds on these, which means something, Usually something silly.
Edited by stuthemongoose on Saturday 24th January 11:50
Edited by stuthemongoose on Saturday 24th January 11:52
Someone mentioned the most preferred way to burn money.
Or the path to avoid exactly this:
I believe that was: No first boat, no second wife, no third house.
The next activity certainly is buying a classic Aston Martin.
By the way, I love the DB6 and even more the 1961 Aston Martin DB4 GT Zagato.
On the other hand you could argue that the price bubble evaporated to a significant extent.
DB6 offers for £400,000 plus are past - or these cars will not move.
Reasonable prices are below £200,000 - but the ownership history, restoration & maintenance history matter and may justify price differences.
For the last three years prices and cars depreciated.
Over the long period prices appreciate - but at a rate below inflation rate. Any stock investment would have been superior if it would have avoided Aston Martin shares.
So the question boils down to: is there a meaningful use case for you? Would you enjoy meeting people with the same interest in classic cars and lock in huge amounts of money for these cars and the linked maintenance? Can you put annual maintenance accruals / reserves of at least £10,000 in a separate account? I assume you have a dry and nice storage place?
Good luck with your acquisition - but expect that it turns out expensive.
Or the path to avoid exactly this:
I believe that was: No first boat, no second wife, no third house.
The next activity certainly is buying a classic Aston Martin.
By the way, I love the DB6 and even more the 1961 Aston Martin DB4 GT Zagato.
On the other hand you could argue that the price bubble evaporated to a significant extent.
DB6 offers for £400,000 plus are past - or these cars will not move.
Reasonable prices are below £200,000 - but the ownership history, restoration & maintenance history matter and may justify price differences.
For the last three years prices and cars depreciated.
Over the long period prices appreciate - but at a rate below inflation rate. Any stock investment would have been superior if it would have avoided Aston Martin shares.
So the question boils down to: is there a meaningful use case for you? Would you enjoy meeting people with the same interest in classic cars and lock in huge amounts of money for these cars and the linked maintenance? Can you put annual maintenance accruals / reserves of at least £10,000 in a separate account? I assume you have a dry and nice storage place?
Good luck with your acquisition - but expect that it turns out expensive.
I ve been considering a 5 or 6 for a few years now.
Haven t bitten the bullet as I can t help but think that the pricing is going to fall in coming years as the generation who owned these start to sell and discover that those in their 40s/50s:
1) have been squeezed a bit recently;
2) if looking for toys, will be considering blue chip classics alongside the cars they lusted after in their teens/20s. For a lot of my friends the latter would win out.
A £250k+ classic toy fund buys quite a lot of modern classics or still a nice modern performance car plus a modern classic.
And that s before one takes into account the costs associated with having specialists look after a blue chip classic
Haven t bitten the bullet as I can t help but think that the pricing is going to fall in coming years as the generation who owned these start to sell and discover that those in their 40s/50s:
1) have been squeezed a bit recently;
2) if looking for toys, will be considering blue chip classics alongside the cars they lusted after in their teens/20s. For a lot of my friends the latter would win out.
A £250k+ classic toy fund buys quite a lot of modern classics or still a nice modern performance car plus a modern classic.
And that s before one takes into account the costs associated with having specialists look after a blue chip classic
An 'Aston as an investment' . .
I think you have come to the right place for a few warnings about that.
Some DB owners might be along soon.
I rely on investment and I like Aston Martins.
However, I always keep those two aspects very separate.
If joining them together, then what comes to my mind is gambling, with likely some expensive upkeep thrown in.
The thought of repairing mild steel underneath, ouch.
Possibly the DB4 and DB5s might continue to have demand, but the ever present 'moving generation buyers syndrome' in the classic car world, might not look quite so kindly on the DB6. The lengthened design to provide rear seating, upset the side view proportions.
If you want to enjoy owning and driving an 'old school' (in modern cars terms) Aston Martin, consider a 2009 onwards V8 or V12 Vantage manual. Fantastic cars, many super condition low mileage examples still exist and you would have a huge amount of change remaining from your planned expenditure. They are unlikely to depreciate too much and the enjoyment vs value is off the scale.
Perhaps you might be able to consider an Aston as an investment, because look how much I have saved you already.
Edited by Dewi 2 on Saturday 24th January 17:03
DB5 has the Bond premium, DB6 is verging on "luxobarge" territory. DB4 has "purity" some might say. Prices paid have softened recently after one collector started selling their many cars. Not many are in unrestored condition given they are now 60ish years old. Mine is a "survivor car" and I have history from new
I haven't seen them post for a long while but there was a participant here who bought a restored DB5 and sold it after a relatively short ownership as the costs of maintaining such a car to high standards became clear. Restoration to as-new or better need 2000+ hours, and the skills to do it, plus £££K for parts, plus another £££K for VAT.
OP it really depends what you want to do with such a car. They are not waterproof and using mine every day (many years ago) and keeping it outside meant my first real maintenance bill was more than I paid for the car. Excepting the radio, my car has 3 electronic components: a diode in the clock, and an inductance and capacitor in the LT ignition circuit. Conveniently modern, they are not!
There aren't many of us here with these old cars, but do get in touch if you'd like an offline chat
Oh yes, keep rodents out of the garage!
I haven't seen them post for a long while but there was a participant here who bought a restored DB5 and sold it after a relatively short ownership as the costs of maintaining such a car to high standards became clear. Restoration to as-new or better need 2000+ hours, and the skills to do it, plus £££K for parts, plus another £££K for VAT.
OP it really depends what you want to do with such a car. They are not waterproof and using mine every day (many years ago) and keeping it outside meant my first real maintenance bill was more than I paid for the car. Excepting the radio, my car has 3 electronic components: a diode in the clock, and an inductance and capacitor in the LT ignition circuit. Conveniently modern, they are not!
There aren't many of us here with these old cars, but do get in touch if you'd like an offline chat
Oh yes, keep rodents out of the garage!
Edited by DB4DM on Saturday 24th January 19:43
A dealer here in Tunbridge Wells is a classic Aston specialist and if he’s not on your radar yet then worth adding him to your browsing list.
Definitely a buyers market in this niche sector.
https://dylan-miles.com/vehicles/
Definitely a buyers market in this niche sector.
https://dylan-miles.com/vehicles/
Very useful insights, thanks all.
Dewy, I’ve had a 4.3 vantage 2007, lovely chassis, awful throttle response and gearbox…. Although the DBS does look very nice of similar vintage. But it’s not as impressive as a proper classic.
There is much, rightly said, here that gives serious pause for thought…. It’d be kept dehumidified and high days only… but the “correcting” values and very limited market doesn’t appeal too much….. BUT people like Looney and myself do think “phwoooor”….. I can see others like us think the same…. I guess unlike mgbs or healeys or whatever, a DBx Aston is kinda pinnacle.
The dream isn’t dead….. but I’m definitely feeling less gung-ho on the matter….
Hmm.
But then I go to bell and Colleville and sit in one and it just feels SO right.
It may be I have to do with this “investment” idea and consider it a treat….. hmm
Dewy, I’ve had a 4.3 vantage 2007, lovely chassis, awful throttle response and gearbox…. Although the DBS does look very nice of similar vintage. But it’s not as impressive as a proper classic.
There is much, rightly said, here that gives serious pause for thought…. It’d be kept dehumidified and high days only… but the “correcting” values and very limited market doesn’t appeal too much….. BUT people like Looney and myself do think “phwoooor”….. I can see others like us think the same…. I guess unlike mgbs or healeys or whatever, a DBx Aston is kinda pinnacle.
The dream isn’t dead….. but I’m definitely feeling less gung-ho on the matter….
Hmm.
But then I go to bell and Colleville and sit in one and it just feels SO right.
It may be I have to do with this “investment” idea and consider it a treat….. hmm
stuthemongoose said:
There is much, rightly said, here that gives serious pause for thought . It d be kept dehumidified and high days only but the correcting values and very limited market doesn t appeal too much .. BUT people like Looney and myself do think phwoooor .. I can see others like us think the same . I guess unlike mgbs or healeys or whatever, a DBx Aston is kinda pinnacle.
I’d agree completely, different league to say an MGB (which I’ve also owned in the past). Looking at your garage I see you’re also a TVR owner. Rightly or wrongly I look at the “management” of a classic DB as needing a similar mindset to keeping my Cerbera running but with the expectation that you could well be sticking a zero on the end of every invoice and perhaps find yourself dealing with specialists accustomed to blank cheque / target perfection work. I could do it but, with a good number of cars already, the hassle/cost/benefit equation has never quite worked out.
I’d hope there are some out there who would be pragmatic when it comes to what it takes/how to keep them on the road, but the concern is that with prices having risen and been maintained for so long it could well be the case that few of those specialists will change their approach or realign prices if value fall. Also, like with TVRs, you also have to wonder a little about what the landscape will look like in 5/10/15 years time when the current chaps retire.
It’s a different kettle of fish when it comes to other classics. For example, my old ragtop landy is a nice one. Very low mileage (<500pa since new), excellent condition (but not the “better than factory” that some aspire to). Parts cost buttons, labour charges for the things I can’t do myself doesn’t cause any angst. Insurance £100/pa… total cost to run it each year is less than a good dinner rather than a very nice holiday.
Then there’s the “other half factor”. MrsLT is quite happy being taken away in the Vanquish for a weekend. No objection whatsoever to a couple of hundred miles. I am less convinced that a classic would be seen as reliable for that sort of trip… and I doubt any mechanical issues would be forgotten in a hurry. That could result in excessive caution from the outset, rendering it a very expensive local country pub car.
My current thinking is that I’ll look again when I sell out of next major investment but a DB would be up against broader competition in the form of an Aventador or foreign property, both of which would see greater use.
Serial DB owner here posting to sing the praises of the DB4/5/and6 and to encourage OP to 'scratch his itch' and to counter the rather downbeat tone of most of the previous posters. I find them wonderful cars and a welcome antithesis to what can be a rather synthetic modern motoring experience.
I own a 4GT, 5 coupe and 6 coupe and used to own a 5 convertible. The first was bought in '99 and the most recent in 2010. In total I have covered over 100k miles in the current trio. The 6 is an historic rally car which we have taken as far as Syria, Jordan, Egypt and Myanmar and it has given us some extraordinary memories. They are all more than capable of holding their own in modern traffic. I have regularly used the DB5 overseas and managed some years ago to drive solo from the South of France to London in one hit. The GT, of course, laid claim to being the fastest production road car in 1959.
In summary, my advice is to make sure you buy a "Good 'un" and you are likely to enjoy many years of happy motoring at sensible cost. I would say GBP5k is a reasonable provision for running costs in an average year to keep things tip top. Buy a "Bad 'un" that requires rebuilding and you will bleed cash. Its not rocket science to separate the one from the other. Look for a good maintenance history and get any proposed purchase checked over by a marque expert. You are looking for a good straight corrosion free chassis and body (particularly sills) and an engine with good compression. When buying any old car I always like to see that previous owners have elected to have annual MOTs. It is reassuring to see a paper trail showing continual modest use from year to year with few advisories. Any car that has been sitting around for a few years will inevitably have teething issues as it is brought back into service.
Bear in mind that all models cost the same (ie a lot) to restore at circa 400k to do properly, with an engine rebuild counting for at least 30k of that. That is rather more than some models in top condition will ever realise so it is important to know what you are buying. In this respect it is really no different from buying any other hand built car from the 60s. The old Astons are very well served by very knowledgable specialists in the UK and pretty much all parts are available, with specialists able to make body panels for you. Most specialists have been bringing on younger mechanics so I don't see the expertise drying up soon. Remember Works Service produced a small production run of continuation DB5s and DB4GTs out of thin air in the last few years.
Go on, OP. You know you want to!
I own a 4GT, 5 coupe and 6 coupe and used to own a 5 convertible. The first was bought in '99 and the most recent in 2010. In total I have covered over 100k miles in the current trio. The 6 is an historic rally car which we have taken as far as Syria, Jordan, Egypt and Myanmar and it has given us some extraordinary memories. They are all more than capable of holding their own in modern traffic. I have regularly used the DB5 overseas and managed some years ago to drive solo from the South of France to London in one hit. The GT, of course, laid claim to being the fastest production road car in 1959.
In summary, my advice is to make sure you buy a "Good 'un" and you are likely to enjoy many years of happy motoring at sensible cost. I would say GBP5k is a reasonable provision for running costs in an average year to keep things tip top. Buy a "Bad 'un" that requires rebuilding and you will bleed cash. Its not rocket science to separate the one from the other. Look for a good maintenance history and get any proposed purchase checked over by a marque expert. You are looking for a good straight corrosion free chassis and body (particularly sills) and an engine with good compression. When buying any old car I always like to see that previous owners have elected to have annual MOTs. It is reassuring to see a paper trail showing continual modest use from year to year with few advisories. Any car that has been sitting around for a few years will inevitably have teething issues as it is brought back into service.
Bear in mind that all models cost the same (ie a lot) to restore at circa 400k to do properly, with an engine rebuild counting for at least 30k of that. That is rather more than some models in top condition will ever realise so it is important to know what you are buying. In this respect it is really no different from buying any other hand built car from the 60s. The old Astons are very well served by very knowledgable specialists in the UK and pretty much all parts are available, with specialists able to make body panels for you. Most specialists have been bringing on younger mechanics so I don't see the expertise drying up soon. Remember Works Service produced a small production run of continuation DB5s and DB4GTs out of thin air in the last few years.
Go on, OP. You know you want to!
Edited by OLDBENZ on Tuesday 27th January 13:00
That is wonderful OLDBENZ. You have clearly had a great deal of enjoyment from your DBs.
If you are happy to do so, may we see photos of the cars?
Your DB6 historic rally car sounds interesting. It might be the only example. Am I to picture wide wheel arches and a bank of front spot lights, perhaps a roof lamp and interior Halda? Maybe not sequential gear change.
Mine and some other slightly downbeat posts were certainly not a reflection on the DB cars, but simply because the OP wondered if such a purchase would be an investment, ie. obtain a greater return, than the total outlay. Probably need to try with an original DB4 Zagato to hope that might work.
You have quite rightly not revealed the total cost of maintaining all of your cars, because you clearly place far more importance on the joys of ownership and use.
Maybe you are like me, cars being keepers, therefore current and future values become irrelevant.
The GT and the DB5 had been restored before my purchase - in '89 and 2000, respectively - so have not suffered anything too monstrous in terms of repair bills - well, relative to a full rebuild with the exception of a rebuild on the DB5 engine some years ago. However, if I add up 40 years of ownership represented by these two cars it will doubtless be a big number. The rally car, I own with a friend and we did fully rebuild that after 10 years. Co-ownership means 50% discount on individual expenditure which is a handy discount.
Happy to oblige with pics:
Happy to oblige with pics:
agree with the above; they may not be the investment they were a few years ago, but they can be joyous to own. Are you really going to be on your death bed and say "..You know, I could have owned my dream car. But the ROI wasn't as good as that flat in Yorkshire, so I didnt...."
But...specialists
I used to own a DBS V8. I did most of the work myself. Finding parts can be fraught (Aston or Lambo Muira for the brake calipers, sir) but they can be worked on at home with some good tools and a lot of patience. Don't believe anyone who says otherwise. You might not watt to/ be to old to, but they can be worked on
One time I took mine to a specialist for some work. I wont name names... but they looked at the car, looked at me, quickly (and correctly) deduced that I wasn't looking for full engine rebuild and underboonet refurbishment. I was told "..Its not our sort of car..." and left it at that.
Cheeky Buggers!
But...specialists
I used to own a DBS V8. I did most of the work myself. Finding parts can be fraught (Aston or Lambo Muira for the brake calipers, sir) but they can be worked on at home with some good tools and a lot of patience. Don't believe anyone who says otherwise. You might not watt to/ be to old to, but they can be worked on
One time I took mine to a specialist for some work. I wont name names... but they looked at the car, looked at me, quickly (and correctly) deduced that I wasn't looking for full engine rebuild and underboonet refurbishment. I was told "..Its not our sort of car..." and left it at that.
Cheeky Buggers!
it's a real photo as far as I know taken from a video conversion of the original cine film where it was only one frame, hence the blurring because of different image "rates". If anyone has a cine version of the film, I'd love to see it! Masquerading as Peter Sellers' DB4GT
Edited by DB4DM on Monday 26th January 19:28
The film is available on Amazon Prime in HD. Car (dark in the film) is registered 41 DPX (1961 DB4 GT dark green). Just been through the film in fast forward and don't see the car do that in the film. Don't wish to share photographs for fear of copyright/licencing. Car chase is at 1:20.
ETA: The photo of your car is from the trailer of the film - https://youtu.be/KGR8qmV8FcQ?t=156
ETA: The photo of your car is from the trailer of the film - https://youtu.be/KGR8qmV8FcQ?t=156
Edited by V8LM on Monday 26th January 20:54
V8LM said:
The film is available on Amazon Prime in HD. Car (dark in the film) is registered 41 DPX (1961 DB4 GT dark green). Just been through the film in fast forward and don't see the car do that in the film. Don't wish to share photographs for fear of copyright/licencing. Car chase is at 1:20.
ETA: The photo of your car is from the trailer of the film - https://youtu.be/KGR8qmV8FcQ?t=156
The story is that they broke the engine of DB4 GT (41 DPX) which was Peter Sellers's personal car during filming and had to use a mocked up DB4 for the bridge jump. If you look at the jump at 1.17.52 you can see that a flat fronted DB4 has been substituted looking very much like DB4DM's car. There is apparently a record of Peter Sellers's having a replacement engine fitted at Works Service after filming.ETA: The photo of your car is from the trailer of the film - https://youtu.be/KGR8qmV8FcQ?t=156
Edited by V8LM on Monday 26th January 20:54
OLDBENZ said:
V8LM said:
The film is available on Amazon Prime in HD. Car (dark in the film) is registered 41 DPX (1961 DB4 GT dark green). Just been through the film in fast forward and don't see the car do that in the film. Don't wish to share photographs for fear of copyright/licencing. Car chase is at 1:20.
ETA: The photo of your car is from the trailer of the film - https://youtu.be/KGR8qmV8FcQ?t=156
The story is that they broke the engine of DB4 GT (41 DPX) which was Peter Sellers's personal car during filming and had to use a mocked up DB4 for the bridge jump. If you look at the jump at 1.17.52 you can see that a flat fronted DB4 has been substituted looking very much like DB4DM's car. There is apparently a record of Peter Sellers's having a replacement engine fitted at Works Service after filming.ETA: The photo of your car is from the trailer of the film - https://youtu.be/KGR8qmV8FcQ?t=156
Edited by V8LM on Monday 26th January 20:54
Its here at 4m30
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sE6dph4wZQA
deffo a different colour to 41DPX but I cant see whether its yours or not!
I hope you finish every journey by getting our and saying "Now??"
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sE6dph4wZQA
deffo a different colour to 41DPX but I cant see whether its yours or not!
I hope you finish every journey by getting our and saying "Now??"
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