honda civic type r ep3
Discussion
i made a decision on going for a ep3 as my next car so seems this is the jap section any advice on what i should look for and are they at there limit of 197bhp or can u had more mods and what mods are they or are they just quick enough as they are.
i got a maximum of 6k so hopefully i mite scrape a premier edition
mileage?
year?
reliability?
roughly mpg ?
i got a maximum of 6k so hopefully i mite scrape a premier edition
mileage?
year?
reliability?
roughly mpg ?
They are incredible cars, I've driven a lot of hot hatches now and the EP3 stands head and shoulders above the rest as the best, so I bought one.
In terms of modifications, you will have to spend a lot to get real power gains. There are the usual mods of decatting, adding a freer-flowing exhaust system, but power gains will be minimal. To get better power gains, you would need an uprated air intake (couple hundred quid for a good one like a Tegiwa), and a better exhaust manifold, again not a cheap bit of kit. Being naturally aspirated, it's not like a turbo car where you can just up the boost, increase the fuelling a bit and get a big power gain by a remap. Tbh, the car is fine with 197bhp, power is not the lure of the Type R. What the Type R has over it's competitors is feeling nimble where others feel heavy footed, and the snappy throttle response that you just won't get in a turbo car. There are options for forced induction, namely superchargers but they are expensive to buy and fit and imo corrupt the ethos of what Type R is about. If you want big power from forced induction you might as well buy a Ford, VAG, Vauxhall etc.
Another thing you get is imo the best sound you will ever hear from a 4 cylinder engine. It has a tuned, sporty sound without the harshness you get with a lot of 4 cylinders. As such, there are loads of options for altering the sound, such as exhausts and induction kits build specifically for the Type R. One thing I would advise against is a hardpipe induction kit from the likes of K&N. This is a cone air filter on the end of a bit of bent steel pipe that sits under the engine bay. While heatsoak (air heated from the engine's heat radiation re-entering the engine, causing a loss of air charge density) is not the same problem for a NA as it is for a turbo engine, it will cause some effect and according to the renowned Honda tuner Spoon Motorsport, the original EP3 airbox is designed to improve throttle response. Spoon recommend not removing the standard airbox, instead uprating the filter element inside.
I don't have any modifications on mine apart from an unsilenced B pipe, which really opens the sound of the exhaust up and adds a bit of volume under load but remains fairly quiet at idle. It does add a lovely motorbike-style howl toward the redline. Some time next year I will probably get a Blitz Nur Spec backbox or even a full system stuck on mine, as I think they make some of the best sounding and looking kit. Spoon's N1 exhaust is pretty much loved by everyone - it's very loud but sounds incredible, but imo it doesn't look that good as it's just a little single pipe and I like the Jap cannon look.
In terms of driving, on the first cam they are quick enough and will accelerate as briskly as any other 2.0L NA engine; if you look at a dyno graph for a standard car you could see how much power the car makes before the VTEC kicks in, it's certainly enough for brisk progress, if you hold each gear to the limit and shift up at the redline you will slot the near gear straight in the VTEC zone and the car will really be flying, well past the legal limits! You have to work for the speed but it's so satisfying, it feels like driving a little race car, it's a hooligan when you are on it!
MPG wise they are not amazing, but not terrible. I get around 29-30mpg in mine but I don't hang about. You will never get amazing economy from one, as 70mph in 6th gear is about 3450rpm. However, if you want to do a lot of motorway miles I would suggest something else, you will never get the best from a Type R doing those kind of miles and it would jut be a waste of money.
My car is not a premier but for £6000 you should be a able to get a premier. Mine is a 2005 facelift, so I've got the facelift lights and front bumper, facelift seats and door cards etc, wing mirror indicators, heated mirrors and aircon (was a £1000 option when the cars were new!). For the premier edition you get red Recaros rather than Type R seats, red carpet like the JDM cars and some other stuff off the top of my head that I can't remember.
Incredible cars, buy one, you won't regret it!
In terms of modifications, you will have to spend a lot to get real power gains. There are the usual mods of decatting, adding a freer-flowing exhaust system, but power gains will be minimal. To get better power gains, you would need an uprated air intake (couple hundred quid for a good one like a Tegiwa), and a better exhaust manifold, again not a cheap bit of kit. Being naturally aspirated, it's not like a turbo car where you can just up the boost, increase the fuelling a bit and get a big power gain by a remap. Tbh, the car is fine with 197bhp, power is not the lure of the Type R. What the Type R has over it's competitors is feeling nimble where others feel heavy footed, and the snappy throttle response that you just won't get in a turbo car. There are options for forced induction, namely superchargers but they are expensive to buy and fit and imo corrupt the ethos of what Type R is about. If you want big power from forced induction you might as well buy a Ford, VAG, Vauxhall etc.
Another thing you get is imo the best sound you will ever hear from a 4 cylinder engine. It has a tuned, sporty sound without the harshness you get with a lot of 4 cylinders. As such, there are loads of options for altering the sound, such as exhausts and induction kits build specifically for the Type R. One thing I would advise against is a hardpipe induction kit from the likes of K&N. This is a cone air filter on the end of a bit of bent steel pipe that sits under the engine bay. While heatsoak (air heated from the engine's heat radiation re-entering the engine, causing a loss of air charge density) is not the same problem for a NA as it is for a turbo engine, it will cause some effect and according to the renowned Honda tuner Spoon Motorsport, the original EP3 airbox is designed to improve throttle response. Spoon recommend not removing the standard airbox, instead uprating the filter element inside.
I don't have any modifications on mine apart from an unsilenced B pipe, which really opens the sound of the exhaust up and adds a bit of volume under load but remains fairly quiet at idle. It does add a lovely motorbike-style howl toward the redline. Some time next year I will probably get a Blitz Nur Spec backbox or even a full system stuck on mine, as I think they make some of the best sounding and looking kit. Spoon's N1 exhaust is pretty much loved by everyone - it's very loud but sounds incredible, but imo it doesn't look that good as it's just a little single pipe and I like the Jap cannon look.
In terms of driving, on the first cam they are quick enough and will accelerate as briskly as any other 2.0L NA engine; if you look at a dyno graph for a standard car you could see how much power the car makes before the VTEC kicks in, it's certainly enough for brisk progress, if you hold each gear to the limit and shift up at the redline you will slot the near gear straight in the VTEC zone and the car will really be flying, well past the legal limits! You have to work for the speed but it's so satisfying, it feels like driving a little race car, it's a hooligan when you are on it!
MPG wise they are not amazing, but not terrible. I get around 29-30mpg in mine but I don't hang about. You will never get amazing economy from one, as 70mph in 6th gear is about 3450rpm. However, if you want to do a lot of motorway miles I would suggest something else, you will never get the best from a Type R doing those kind of miles and it would jut be a waste of money.
My car is not a premier but for £6000 you should be a able to get a premier. Mine is a 2005 facelift, so I've got the facelift lights and front bumper, facelift seats and door cards etc, wing mirror indicators, heated mirrors and aircon (was a £1000 option when the cars were new!). For the premier edition you get red Recaros rather than Type R seats, red carpet like the JDM cars and some other stuff off the top of my head that I can't remember.
Incredible cars, buy one, you won't regret it!
Fair play mastodon2 that was a really helpful post there u really have answered my question i got a bit of a story behind this acctually i used to have a civic 1.6 sport and i loved that i know nothing power wise but it was great i flogged it of as i had a wineing noise in the gearbox i went for a 182 clio then which i got on the wrong side of a lampost and as they plastic go karts it just went straight to the scrap yard but its a lazy 2.0 lump i think in my mind they seem heavy revers now im stuck with a pug hdi 90bhp lovely on the building of my ncb insurance. but no its time for something nippy and good looking again now the insurance has came down im 21 with 1 years no claims now. the mrs have been on to me to get a c220 cdi coupe but as u know that vtec is entertaining ive heard. ive heard just a k&n panel filter is fine and what have you done to yours again i dont understand what you done with your exhaust decat isi my ideal would be a grey premier if not just a grey one ha my mate has a celica vvti 190 bhp and he got a pipe and panel filter and he past a few ep3 not by a lot so id like my one to keep him a bit stumped lol
benjy279 said:
Fair play mastodon2 that was a really helpful post there u really have answered my question i got a bit of a story behind this acctually i used to have a civic 1.6 sport and i loved that i know nothing power wise but it was great i flogged it of as i had a wineing noise in the gearbox i went for a 182 clio then which i got on the wrong side of a lampost and as they plastic go karts it just went straight to the scrap yard but its a lazy 2.0 lump i think in my mind they seem heavy revers now im stuck with a pug hdi 90bhp lovely on the building of my ncb insurance. but no its time for something nippy and good looking again now the insurance has came down im 21 with 1 years no claims now. the mrs have been on to me to get a c220 cdi coupe but as u know that vtec is entertaining ive heard. ive heard just a k&n panel filter is fine and what have you done to yours again i dont understand what you done with your exhaust decat isi my ideal would be a grey premier if not just a grey one ha my mate has a celica vvti 190 bhp and he got a pipe and panel filter and he past a few ep3 not by a lot so id like my one to keep him a bit stumped lol
Bloody hell, bit of a difference between a C220 diesel and an EP3!As for air filters, I don't think you'll get a panel filter in, the Honda airbox houses a cylindrical filter, like this one
Altering the filter may or may not give you some performance increase, I wouldn't get a bargain bin filter but you can spend as much as £130 on a Spoon item, which is probably a lot of money for little gain. It's certainly worth putting in a fresh filter when you buy the car, if the one that is in there is looking a bit old.
For my exhaust, I've still got the cat in and the standard backbox. The pipe that runs from the cat to the back box (that normally has a centre silencing box on it) has been replaced on my car so its just a straight piece of pipe that runs from the cat the backbox. This improves the tone of the exhaust noise, giving it more rasp at lower revs and more scream at higher revs, but as the backbox is standard it's still fairly quiet at idle. As mentioned, next year I'll be adding a Blitz Nur Spec backbox or potentially a full Blitz catback. Adding an unsilenced B pipe and a freer flowing, less restrictive backbox than the one the car comes with will see you with some slight power increases, but nothing more than a few bhp.
benjy279 said:
so really they are at there limit then unless u got plenty of money. i got you now with your exhaust. whats this i been told about the valve clearances and i been told u can put something on thm to bring the vtec in sooner
Valve clearances are how high the valves at the top of the cylinders lift through their cycle, they should be lifting to set limits consistently to ensure optimum performance of the engine. You can check and adjust these yourself, but having read through a guide of how to do this before I'm not sure I'd trust myself. IIRC the VTEC cam engages when an oil-pressure driven pin locks the VTEC cam rockers in place, the system control this VTEC engagement pin is controlled by the ECU. If you buy a Hondata ECU you can install that in the car and begin tinkering with the management, which is most often done to lower the VTEC engagement point. Again, not a cheap job, and probably a little risky unless you are mechanically confident. Lowering the VTEC engagement will make the car feel more like an older Type R, with harder engagement. In the the EP3 you do get a bit of a VTEC surge, but it's mapped in higher in the rev range (5800rpm) when normally an engine would be starting to tail off. With the newer, heavier FN2 Type R, the jellybean looking one, the VTEC engagement is mapped to 5200rpm as standard, because the heavier weight of the car made the engine run out of puff sooner, so the lowered the VTEC engagement to make the car feel perkier.
ill just keep mine standard then might treat myself to an expensive filter. well i just get worried about those valve clearances like do i take it to a honda dealership or will a normal garage know what im talking about on them or just ask the seller have it had it done really before. ofcourse im going to get xmas done with 1st then ill start looking for one then and get the hdi gone. your advice has been help full so no major things to look for when viewing one
I don't know if your average garage would know what to do or how to do it - as naturally aspirated engines with a specific output of nearly 100bhp/L, they are fairly highly strung and obviously have finer tolerances than a boggo family car engine. Not that I've had to take my Type R to a garage yet, but if and when I do I will hunt down the best indie garage in the area for Hondas. I always try to use the best independents that I can, rather than taking it to the cheapest or most convenient place.
When buying, common stuff to look out for is wear to the gearbox. The boxes can be a little hesitant when cold but that is true of any car. Once the oil is properly warmed through the Type R box is as quick and slick as you will find, and should engage every gear easily with no hesitation. When selecting reverse, the owners manual recommends that you should sit in neutral for a second or two before selecting reverse, but if the gear is excessively difficult to slot in or makes a crunching noise on going in then damage has occurred to the gearbox. The gearboxes on these can take a battering with unsympathetic owners. If you go to view a car, let the owner drive you out in it. If he starts it up and starts ragging it with cold oil and coolant, walk away - he has no mechanical sympathy and you have no way of knowing how much damage has been done in the time he has owned it.
Of course, the above is true for any performance car! The other important one of the top of my head is oil, check the condition of the oil. It should be a clear brown. If it's very dark or has bits in it then it's probably old, and someone who doesn't change the oil in one of these is not worth buying from.
Otherwise, all the common stuff, do a slow speed figure of 8 if you have space, to listen for clonks from worn suspension, drive with the window down and listen to grinding or squealing from the brakes and wheel bearings etc.
These are tough cars though, so there should not be too much to go wrong. Buy a good one and you will love it!
When buying, common stuff to look out for is wear to the gearbox. The boxes can be a little hesitant when cold but that is true of any car. Once the oil is properly warmed through the Type R box is as quick and slick as you will find, and should engage every gear easily with no hesitation. When selecting reverse, the owners manual recommends that you should sit in neutral for a second or two before selecting reverse, but if the gear is excessively difficult to slot in or makes a crunching noise on going in then damage has occurred to the gearbox. The gearboxes on these can take a battering with unsympathetic owners. If you go to view a car, let the owner drive you out in it. If he starts it up and starts ragging it with cold oil and coolant, walk away - he has no mechanical sympathy and you have no way of knowing how much damage has been done in the time he has owned it.
Of course, the above is true for any performance car! The other important one of the top of my head is oil, check the condition of the oil. It should be a clear brown. If it's very dark or has bits in it then it's probably old, and someone who doesn't change the oil in one of these is not worth buying from.
Otherwise, all the common stuff, do a slow speed figure of 8 if you have space, to listen for clonks from worn suspension, drive with the window down and listen to grinding or squealing from the brakes and wheel bearings etc.
These are tough cars though, so there should not be too much to go wrong. Buy a good one and you will love it!
Hey mate, got an ep4 myself (3 door diesel)
Check out the epcivic.com forums for some good advice, they were really helpful. Most people find best gains by going for the lieghtwieght option due to lots of carbon parts being available!
Also for 6k you'll probably be able to get the more track oriented JDM type R which comes in the lovely championship white and features 215bhp. also keeps its value exceptionally well!
Check out the epcivic.com forums for some good advice, they were really helpful. Most people find best gains by going for the lieghtwieght option due to lots of carbon parts being available!
Also for 6k you'll probably be able to get the more track oriented JDM type R which comes in the lovely championship white and features 215bhp. also keeps its value exceptionally well!
benjy279 said:
By the way it be a dream to have a jdm but is it worth it or no i really like them in white so shall i get a one which has been sprayed white ofcourse look.for the one with the best job. Or just stick to a grey premier.
Keep in mind if you go for a JDM car it will be an import so the usual advice for imports probably applies, to keep it undersealed to prevent rust - Japanese cars do not get the same kind as underseal as cars in the UK do as they simply don't need it.I don't know what the insurance groups are on these now that the grouping system has changed, the UK Type R was group 17D, the JDM EP3s were group 20, which was the top group for insurance cost. I think that at 20 or 21 you could potentially be looking at a lot of money to be insured on a JDM car, even though all it has extra is another 18 or so bhp and a limited slip differential.
Mastodon2 said:
Keep in mind if you go for a JDM car it will be an import so the usual advice for imports probably applies, to keep it undersealed to prevent rust - Japanese cars do not get the same kind as underseal as cars in the UK do as they simply don't need it.
I don't know what the insurance groups are on these now that the grouping system has changed, the UK Type R was group 17D, the JDM EP3s were group 20, which was the top group for insurance cost. I think that at 20 or 21 you could potentially be looking at a lot of money to be insured on a JDM car, even though all it has extra is another 18 or so bhp and a limited slip differential.
Also, it will no doubt be around 4 years older and pre-facelift too.I don't know what the insurance groups are on these now that the grouping system has changed, the UK Type R was group 17D, the JDM EP3s were group 20, which was the top group for insurance cost. I think that at 20 or 21 you could potentially be looking at a lot of money to be insured on a JDM car, even though all it has extra is another 18 or so bhp and a limited slip differential.
I would go for a Cosmic Grey Premier if it was me
benjy279 said:
True there i got a quote for 900 quid on a normal type r which to me isnt bad seems i got a claim against me would it geeky of me to get a sprayed white cuz i.just like.the colour of them in white :/
it would cost a fortune i believe to get it resprayed (1500 - 2000)If you find a ukdm that has been sprayed and it is a top quality job then by all means go for it
It is listed only on the forum for now mate, let me know.Gassing Station | Japanese Chat | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff