Discussion
What is the more reliable car in people's experience? I'm looking at a 1993 ish Scooby WRX import or a GT4 either st185 or st205. I know that both can be reliable cars but which should I go for? I have owned a WRX before and driven a couple GT4's and like em both just don't want to have to shell out for a new bottom end or something a month after buying a car.
Both have their weaknesses, Impreza is arguably the better drive (depending on the shape you go for), St185 is a heavy bugger but all of mine were uber reliable, ST205 tends to have been played with more tend can be a riskier buy, also the Fig 8s will go at some point and thats not a cheap fix.
Only scoob I ever had lunched 2 bottom ends in quick succession and went to the scrappy.
You pays your money and all that..
Only scoob I ever had lunched 2 bottom ends in quick succession and went to the scrappy.
You pays your money and all that..
St205's are good cars - they make 300bhp easily with a decent exhaust , ebc and de cat.
Build quality is excellent and if you buy a good one it will put a smile on your face.
However lots of dogs out there - buying a good one is the hard part. Only place where rust does seem to take hold is bottom of doors
Ref the SS suspension - unless your unlucky and have a incident like hitting a rock or a huge pot hole they will last between 60 - 80'000 miles
The lower arms are £210 each , fig 8's £60 each and the banana arms £150 each and it doesnt mean that all need replacing at dame time unless your unlucky or want peace of mind and do it anyway - last owner of mine did.
185's are heavier , very prone to rust on sills unless been looked afte, look for cracks on bulkhead , brakes are shocking - lots upgrade to st205 brakes F&R and take a lot more work to achieve 300bhp - but they dont have the SS suspension - again finding a good one is hard part.
Cant comment on subaru as not owned one
Test drive a good example of each and see which one suits you best
Build quality is excellent and if you buy a good one it will put a smile on your face.
However lots of dogs out there - buying a good one is the hard part. Only place where rust does seem to take hold is bottom of doors
Ref the SS suspension - unless your unlucky and have a incident like hitting a rock or a huge pot hole they will last between 60 - 80'000 miles
The lower arms are £210 each , fig 8's £60 each and the banana arms £150 each and it doesnt mean that all need replacing at dame time unless your unlucky or want peace of mind and do it anyway - last owner of mine did.
185's are heavier , very prone to rust on sills unless been looked afte, look for cracks on bulkhead , brakes are shocking - lots upgrade to st205 brakes F&R and take a lot more work to achieve 300bhp - but they dont have the SS suspension - again finding a good one is hard part.
Cant comment on subaru as not owned one
Test drive a good example of each and see which one suits you best
Really, 185s more prone to rust? I've seen more Faffs with rust than 185s, maybe thats just me though, agreed on the brakes, they are absolutely pony as stock items, easy upgrade though. I always felt the 185 had a bit more sould than the Faff (205).
All down to personal choice at the end of the day, main issue is, as with all cars like this and at this age finding a well looked after, rust free, un ragged and unmodded one is very unlikley and if you go into it with your eyes wide open and a willingness to spend on making it what you want you get a lot of return for your investment.
All down to personal choice at the end of the day, main issue is, as with all cars like this and at this age finding a well looked after, rust free, un ragged and unmodded one is very unlikley and if you go into it with your eyes wide open and a willingness to spend on making it what you want you get a lot of return for your investment.
I would go for the GT4 it might be heavier than a scooby maybe a bit slower but it looks better in my opinion and from my mates experience less likely to blow up it also seemed to cost less to run and was considerably less to insure. He bought his scooby about 3 weeks ago and now it needs a new engine despite already having had two replacement engines in its life it also has a few rust issues ( bootlid front arches and sills).
ST182 & ST185 will be more prone to rust purely due to age, the 182&5 have daft vents in the door shuts that lets IN moisture but doesn't let it out so it sits inside the sill and rots it from the inside out, by the time you notice it's too late.
The ST205 IMO has less character and and the interior is a less pleasant place to be, overall quality on the 205 is lower than the 185, however the 205 will be a better drive and as others have mentioned will be a lighter beast!
Re the WRX, rust again is a problem, mainly the rear arches... I've seen rusty Bugeye WRX's so a mid 90's WRX stands a very good chance of being rotten.
Either way look for an import that's been undersealed for a better chance!
The ST205 IMO has less character and and the interior is a less pleasant place to be, overall quality on the 205 is lower than the 185, however the 205 will be a better drive and as others have mentioned will be a lighter beast!
Re the WRX, rust again is a problem, mainly the rear arches... I've seen rusty Bugeye WRX's so a mid 90's WRX stands a very good chance of being rotten.
Either way look for an import that's been undersealed for a better chance!
Thanks everyone, was leaning toward a st205 to be honest. The rear strut brace sounds good, hopefully with decent tires and a little chassis tuning I can get my one (when I get it end of next month) running well. I think 300bhp will be enough to have some fun in, heard they're good for a little over 160mph and 5.5 0-60 times with fill interior so if I strip it out maybe closer to 5 seconds flat.
Was even considering putting racing seats on the back so the missus will stay happy... Will upload some pics when all is said and done!
Was even considering putting racing seats on the back so the missus will stay happy... Will upload some pics when all is said and done!
I'd expect the ST205's engine to be pretty tough since it was the same unit as my MR2 Turbo had and that was unbelievably strong. Decent ST205's are getting hard to come by now though, most of them have been barried to hell and back. If you do go for one, budget for getting the Super Strut suspension arms replaced or look for a car that has had the work done recently (IIRC it's something like £800-£1000 of work). Find a good, standard Celica and it should be tougher than the Impreza. I looked at the ST205's before I got my MR2 Turbo and decided the ones near to me just weren't up to my standards.
On the other hand, the Impreza will be better to drive. They feel lighter, more nimble and more adjustable mid-corner. The Celica feels a bit slower and heavy in comparison, with a less immediate turn in. The Impreza prefers being settled before entering a bend, get the turn in early and point to the apex and it will shoot out of a corner like a rocket. Despite being of the same sort of age, the Impreza feels like a definite move forward over the Celica. There should be more about, but you must also tread carefully here as plenty of Imprezas have been thrashed to within an inch of their life. Generally though, they are tough. The Impreza's engine troubles seemed to be heralded by the advent of the 2.5L block, which is much, much later than what you're after.
On the other hand, the Impreza will be better to drive. They feel lighter, more nimble and more adjustable mid-corner. The Celica feels a bit slower and heavy in comparison, with a less immediate turn in. The Impreza prefers being settled before entering a bend, get the turn in early and point to the apex and it will shoot out of a corner like a rocket. Despite being of the same sort of age, the Impreza feels like a definite move forward over the Celica. There should be more about, but you must also tread carefully here as plenty of Imprezas have been thrashed to within an inch of their life. Generally though, they are tough. The Impreza's engine troubles seemed to be heralded by the advent of the 2.5L block, which is much, much later than what you're after.
Just a thought:
Theres a reason why Subaru sold more WRX and UK cars than GT4's were sold.
Even the tame restricted UK cars could make 0-60 in 5.3seconds.
Ok, no-one ever claimed they were great handling, but their handling is consistent on both dry and wet roads.
If they were really that bad as some people like to make out, Subaru would not have outsold their Japanese competitors option and people wouldn't have been importing JDM versions in bucket loads for the last 15 years.
There also seems to be a LOT of obvious GT4 fans replying to your post.
Its a worn out cliche, but you need to drive them all and then decide.
Theres a reason why Subaru sold more WRX and UK cars than GT4's were sold.
Even the tame restricted UK cars could make 0-60 in 5.3seconds.
Ok, no-one ever claimed they were great handling, but their handling is consistent on both dry and wet roads.
If they were really that bad as some people like to make out, Subaru would not have outsold their Japanese competitors option and people wouldn't have been importing JDM versions in bucket loads for the last 15 years.
There also seems to be a LOT of obvious GT4 fans replying to your post.
Its a worn out cliche, but you need to drive them all and then decide.
Not to mention the ST205 wasn't bolstered by years of rallying success like the Impreza was. Subaru were quite clever with the Impreza in that they built on their rally success with a series of special edition models which kept people buying them too.
If anything, the ST205 never really found a firm footing to sell off. When it came out it was compared to the much better Escort Cosworth, despite even Clarkson saying it was a credible alternative. Anyone who could afford the Cosworth seemed to go that way. Then as the Impreza and Lancer Evolutions came along, they became the aspirational cars of the rallying. Not that the ST205 is a bad car though, I would have had one had a good one been close enough for me to go and see.
If anything, the ST205 never really found a firm footing to sell off. When it came out it was compared to the much better Escort Cosworth, despite even Clarkson saying it was a credible alternative. Anyone who could afford the Cosworth seemed to go that way. Then as the Impreza and Lancer Evolutions came along, they became the aspirational cars of the rallying. Not that the ST205 is a bad car though, I would have had one had a good one been close enough for me to go and see.
As you say the subaru's / evo's had a rally background to use as a selling tool - this didnt happen for the 205 after Toyota were caught cheating and banned from the WRC.
Also the 205 was £30K at launch so a lot more expensive than its rivals and UK sales stopped in 96.
As i said in a earlier post test drive a good example of each then decide.
Also the 205 was £30K at launch so a lot more expensive than its rivals and UK sales stopped in 96.
As i said in a earlier post test drive a good example of each then decide.
dizzydogg said:
Wow thanks all!
One last thing, what about the Pulsar GTIR? Heard they are prone to blown everything's in the engine but any owners tell me any different?
Decent cars that will take a bit of tuning, but the gearbox, brakes and differentials are known weakpoints. I had arranged to go and see one on the other side of the country when I sold my MR2 Turbo but reading that put me off and I decided it wasn't ideal for commuting...One last thing, what about the Pulsar GTIR? Heard they are prone to blown everything's in the engine but any owners tell me any different?
johnyboy1976 said:
Knew a lad who had a GTIr - took me for a blast and it was bloody quick.
However it rattled like a skeleton having a w
k in a biscuit tin - build quality was not a strong point.
haha best thing I've heard in ages! Just don't know which way to go, love the st205 looks wise and will probably go for that. Thanks again all! Has been... special However it rattled like a skeleton having a w
k in a biscuit tin - build quality was not a strong point.johnyboy1976 said:
Whats your colour pref , budget and you wanting a standard car or mildly modded??
Gotta say black or white are what I'm after. Anything modified sensibly is alright, so up to 300bhp. Would prefer a jap import with no mods so I can do it myself but then my budget won't extend that far... Only looking at a £3k max budget as its only going to be for funGassing Station | Japanese Chat | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff