Prelude VTEC vs Celica GT

[wedgepilot]

Anyone remember my previous post about 'sensible' turbo cars, Galant VR4, etc? Well I ended up getting something german with a big V6, as the missus put her foot down

So anyway, as a cheap-ish second car, I've narrowed it down to either a pre-96 Prelude VTEC (wierd dash, but I prefer the styling) or a Celica GT of similar vintage (GT4 would be nice, but I would be too tempted to tune it and I've already got one gas-guzzler).

I know they're a similar size, and that the Prelude has more BHP, but is also a lot heavier. Can anyone shed more light on either? What are they like to drive? Reliability? Running costs? etc...

Cheers,
Alan

[dern]

I don't know much about the celica but we had a 91 prelude 2.2 vtec import (2 wheel not 4 wheel steer) for 3 years, I had it for 2 years and thrashed it everywhere and my wife had it for the final year and treated it much more gently. While I had it it went through brake discs on a fairly regular basis and used a bit of oil (required topping up between services) but when my wife had it it did neither of these things. The vtec engine will use a bit of oil if you use the vtec a lot. I can't explain the disc problem I had but it may well have been my fault rather than the cars.

In the 3 years and something like 60k miles we had it for all it needed was regular servicing (incl brakes, cam belts etc), a new radiator, new clutch and 2 exhaust systems (should have got a stainless system the first time). The only times we had a problem with it were when the manifold cracked (aftermarket so not indicative of any problem you'd have) and when we got a dry joint on the circuit board in the dash causing a warning light to come on intermitantly.

It was probably the most reliable car we've ever had.

Mark

[havoc]

Prelude ISN'T that heavy. 4ws is supposed to be very good, but if there is a failure it's expensive. Probably one of the few weak-points about getting an older one.

However, the H22 block in the VTi is among the finest NA engines built - plenty of torque yet revs like a Type-R. I'll put it this way - a well driven Gen-4 VTi will be post very similar on-track times to a current Civic Type-R...and they've a strong following among the Honda-istas.

[tuttle]

I really fancy one of those shape preludes myself,(its an old school large GT thing )so I'm a bit biased there.
However,in terms of performance,the Celica esp a GT4 should be the one to go for,imo.
Theres a few knowledgeable GT4 owners kicking around here;MrE & Turbo-Tastic etc.

[havoc]

GT4 is different to stock Celica and stock Prelude...and more expensive. Plus, 4wd and a turbo to fix when they go wrong.

But yes, it is a very nice car.

[dinkel]

The Prelude: sit in it and you won't get out. It's a shame Honda doesn't do one anymore . . .

www.tuningpt.com/scanspages/scan28/scan28.htm

Celica doesn't sound - exhaust - that good.

[wedgepilot]

Thanks guys, all good stuff...so, the Prelude is a good car.

Anyone have any experience of the Celica GT? Also, I can't decide between the last of the pop-up headlights models (sorry - don't know which gen that is, but early 90's) and the following 'quad-light' generation. I prefer the style of the older model, but is the newer one a better car?

[oldskool]

wedgepilot said:

Anyone have any experience of the Celica GT? Also, I can't decide between the last of the pop-up headlights models (sorry - don't know which gen that is, but early 90's) and the following 'quad-light' generation. I prefer the style of the older model, but is the newer one a better car?

Hi - 1st post on PH...

Anyway, I recently bought a '94 celica GT (one of the last of the pop up headlight models - 5th gen). On the whole its a cracking motor considering its age and mileage, with a fair bit of power available at higher revs. I think the prelude will have it beat both on paper and on the road though, the 5th gen GT is only 154hp (158 pre-cat).

The 6th gen GT (quad headlamp) has a redesigned head and produces about 20 more horses, so I'd go for one of those if funds allow - the early ones are more or less the same price as the late 5th gens.

Its true that the exhaust is a bit quiet and probably fairly restrictive, so I will be swapping it for a powerflow system in the near future.

[havoc]

If I recall, the 6th-gen Celica 2.0 only delivered ~130-140bhp...it was the GT4 with the turbo which was approaching 200. And the 6th gen had put on a fair bit of weight compared to the pop-up light version as well...regardless, a 0-60 of > 9sec for the 2.0 (the GT version) is NOT promising...the 5th Gen seems to have the better performance and handling, but was discontinued ~'94.

I'd still go Prelude for the Honda reliability and THAT engine (197bhp from a mid-90s 2.2)

[oldskool]

havoc said:

If I recall, the 6th-gen Celica 2.0 only delivered ~130-140bhp...it was the GT4 with the turbo which was approaching 200.

You might be thinking of the 1.8 ST - the Gen 6 2.0 GT had ~170hp .

Gen 5 facts and figures
www.celica-club.co.uk/cgibin/phpbb2/viewtopic.php?t=25959

Gen 6 facts and figures
www.celica-club.co.uk/cgibin/phpbb2/viewtopic.php?t=5632

[wedgepilot]

oldskool said:

Gen 5 facts and figures www.celica-club.co.uk/cgibin/phpbb2/viewtopic.php?t=25959 Gen 6 facts and figures www.celica-club.co.uk/cgibin/phpbb2/viewtopic.php?t=5632

Nice one, and welcome, oldskool

As much as I love the look of the gen 5 celica, it sounds like the prelude is the better car. Now just gotta find a nice one.....

[dern]

wedgepilot said:

Nice one, and welcome, oldskool As much as I love the look of the gen 5 celica, it sounds like the prelude is the better car. Now just gotta find a nice one.....

I'd drive them both if I were you for as good a car technically as our prelude was I wouldn't swap my old 944 for one as it didn't really stir the soul after the vtec novelty wore off (that's why I gave it to my wife). I bought the 944 with a budget of 3k when I was (am) a bit skint and I guess I could have got a prelude vtec again but I really couldn't face it, no matter how technically brilliant they are or how reliable. Heart over head every time

Mark

[wedgepilot]

Funny you should say that...I'm going the other way! My last car was a 944S, a totally fantastic piece of kit. I had to sell it as I was moving abroad. I was going to get another one over here, but there are so many cheap Jap imports around, it's almost rude not to try one

I'll think I'll still give the Prelude a try, even if it's just so I can tick it off my automotive wish-list, and see how it compares to the porker...

[dern]

wedgepilot said:

Funny you should say that...I'm going the other way! My last car was a 944S, a totally fantastic piece of kit. I had to sell it as I was moving abroad. I was going to get another one over here, but there are so many cheap Jap imports around, it's almost rude not to try one I'll think I'll still give the Prelude a try, even if it's just so I can tick it off my automotive wish-list, and see how it compares to the porker...

Don't get me wrong, it's a great car in pretty much every respect. It was by far the best of the fwd cars I've had but I couldn't go back to fwd now. I also felt that japanese cars are more remote than I'd like but I am replacing the 944 soon (not fast enough) and I will be taking a closer look at a manual 300zx as they are such good value at the moment.

Regards,

Mark

[Mr E]

Sounds like a decision reached then.

Dynamically, the 'lude is a better car thatn a 5th Gen Celica GTi-16.

A 6th gen Celica GT with 175bhp is close.

A Four would wipe the floor with it, and empty your bank account at the same time.

[wedgepilot]

Mr E said:

Dynamically, the 'lude is a better car thatn a 5th Gen Celica GTi-16.

That settles it then

Mr E said:

A Four would ... empty your bank account at the same time.

That's what scares me!

Cheers chaps, I'm off car hunting, I'll let you know how it goes

[sultanbrown]

Just to clarify, UK spec 'Ludes are 185Bhp up to '98, and 197Bhp after. The Jap cars are all (4th gen onwards) 197Bhp with the exception of the type s at 220Bhp. Straight line or corners the Honda wins over the GT, hence why I'm currently looking for one (my mate has just got the Celica). Both nice cars, but I found the gearbox in the Celica a little long.

[havoc]

sultanbrown said:

with the exception of the type s at 220Bhp.

Allegedly, and only on 100RON. Probably 210-ish in the UK...and they're like hen's teeth!

[71notout]

I've got a 4th Gen Prelude in the classifieds

It's a 1996 UK model, but has been rolling roaded at 198bhp with the mods i've added.

2.5 years of great fun, but it's time to move on!

[zetecuk]

My fiancee has had a 5th Gen Celica now for 2 years. 1993 model, 133k on the clock, and has been totally reliable - only bulbs and consumables replaced. Not as nimble and chuckable as my Focus, but a lot more grip, and less rust.

Sounds great too, though not sure if the exhaust is standard. Was impressed to hear a GT4 Group A rally car start up at Goodwood - the starter and engine sound were instantly recognisable from our humble GT.

Oh, and the novelty of pop-up headlamps has yet to wear off - it's like having gun sights on the front of the car