Subaru Problems (help/ideas please)
Discussion
The Legacy developed some issues tonight 
(1997 TS-R EJ20 na manual)
After being parked for maybe an hour (had seemed fine before that) started it up to go home, once moving noticed the 'check engine' light was on. I thought thats odd, so stopped, turned it off, restarted. light still on, and when I stopped at the next intersection (maybe 50m away) it wouldn't idle and died. Got mates to push me round corner, waited a while, tinkered a bit, found battery connections were loose (no idea why, maybe from last service at dealer). Tightened them up, started up, idling real rough/lumpy then gradually losing revs until it dies. No 'check engine' light though. checked a few other things, started up again, idled a bit rough but better, with 'check engine' light on again. decided to try and limp it home, made it 4 or 5 km before it gave a cough/pop sort of sound and lost pretty much all power. Got Dad to come tow me home. hmmm.
Tried disconnecting battery for 30 min in garage to reset ECU in case loose battery connections had messed it up somehow but no improvement really. Idles lumpy/rough and quickly loses revs until it dies. Also smells very rich with unburnt fuel at the back when trying to idle. Also noticed that the oil level seems quite a bit higher on dipstick than usual, but not sure if its related or just me being paranoid. Oil still nice and clean etc.
My thoughts are:
a) MAF sensor?
b) Coil pack? (/s)
c) Something nasty I haven't thought of?
Anyone have any ideas/experience of similiar issues?
(1997 TS-R EJ20 na manual) After being parked for maybe an hour (had seemed fine before that) started it up to go home, once moving noticed the 'check engine' light was on. I thought thats odd, so stopped, turned it off, restarted. light still on, and when I stopped at the next intersection (maybe 50m away) it wouldn't idle and died. Got mates to push me round corner, waited a while, tinkered a bit, found battery connections were loose (no idea why, maybe from last service at dealer). Tightened them up, started up, idling real rough/lumpy then gradually losing revs until it dies. No 'check engine' light though. checked a few other things, started up again, idled a bit rough but better, with 'check engine' light on again. decided to try and limp it home, made it 4 or 5 km before it gave a cough/pop sort of sound and lost pretty much all power. Got Dad to come tow me home. hmmm.
Tried disconnecting battery for 30 min in garage to reset ECU in case loose battery connections had messed it up somehow but no improvement really. Idles lumpy/rough and quickly loses revs until it dies. Also smells very rich with unburnt fuel at the back when trying to idle. Also noticed that the oil level seems quite a bit higher on dipstick than usual, but not sure if its related or just me being paranoid. Oil still nice and clean etc.
My thoughts are:
a) MAF sensor?
b) Coil pack? (/s)
c) Something nasty I haven't thought of?
Anyone have any ideas/experience of similiar issues?
)There's some green & black connectors under the dash near the steering column. One pair is for reading historic faults and the other is for putting the car in test mode. (I can never remember which way round they are)
Connect the "read memory" pair and turn the ignition on. The check engine lamp will flash a code. Long flashes = 10 and short flashes = 1. Add up the flashes, so long-long-short = 21. A pause indicates that the display has finished showing that fault and is moving on to the next one.
Post the numbers up here and I'll see if I know what they are.
Connect the "read memory" pair and turn the ignition on. The check engine lamp will flash a code. Long flashes = 10 and short flashes = 1. Add up the flashes, so long-long-short = 21. A pause indicates that the display has finished showing that fault and is moving on to the next one.
Post the numbers up here and I'll see if I know what they are.
Well it didn't get any code I could make out, just kept flashing at me constantly. Would error codes have been erased by me leaving th battery off for 30min to reset the ECU last night? hasnt been driven since then but has been started and no change in engine. (idles really rough, running very rich going by the smell, then loses revs and dies).
OK realised I was using the wrong connectors, green is diagnostic connectors which just flash, black gives error code 23 (long-long-short-short-short)
Anyone know that one?
OK from googleising it looks like code 23 is airflow meter/circuit. gives me something to go on anyway.
Anyone know that one?
OK from googleising it looks like code 23 is airflow meter/circuit. gives me something to go on anyway.
Edited by GravelBen on Friday 2nd February 22:35
dnb said:
23 is the MAF sensor, which is not surprising since you unplugged it when you ran the car...
Taking the battery off would have cleared all the other codes - sometimes it takes an extended drive before the ECU flags up a fault.
Taking the battery off would have cleared all the other codes - sometimes it takes an extended drive before the ECU flags up a fault.
oh yeah, forgot that I unplugged it before. hmmm. any idea how it works with the diagnostic connectors? or do I need to clear it again, start it up and see what I get then? problem is I don't think it will run for long enough to take a drive for the ECU to find faults.
dnb said:
Don't worry about clearing it - the ECU can record 20 or so faults if need be.
Ah ok, cleared it already, never mind. It isn't picking up any codes now, just flashing away. Makes me think its not the MAF now, because it gave the MAF code after idling for maybe 20 sec or so with it disconnected before it died, but hasn't picked anything up from a similiar length of time idling once ECU cleared (thats about as long as it will idle for before it dies, can keep it going a little bit longer with the throttle but not much)
Its not really that urgent as car is under warranty and I can't get in touch with warranty people until monday, and there won't be anywhere open until to run diagnostics or fix it either, but I still hate not knowing what the problem is.
It sounds as if it's a fuel issue, especially if you say you smell fuel. Almost like the fuel filter is clogged and lets enough petrol through to start the car then dies when what tiny aperture was open is clogged again. When the dirt settles in the filter it lets some fuel through but then as the fuel comes through the dirt is stirred up again and clogs.
I'm probably completely wrong as i am going on old style car mechanicals of yesteryear and i don't have much experience of Subaru ECU/Electronic issues. Just my half pence worth
I'm probably completely wrong as i am going on old style car mechanicals of yesteryear and i don't have much experience of Subaru ECU/Electronic issues. Just my half pence worth
Edited by scoobiewrx on Saturday 3rd February 11:02
I had wondered about fuel as I'd refueled 10km at most before the problems started. Definitely didn't put the wrong fuel in it ( 
) before anyone suggests that, but a bad batch of fuel is possible. I would have expected to notice sooner if it was bad fuel though as it was almost empty when I refueled so not much already in there to dilute it.
Might go back to the petrol station and ask if they've had any issues though.
ETA: the fuel smell is only at the back of the car, I just assumed it was due to the car running overly rich.
) before anyone suggests that, but a bad batch of fuel is possible. I would have expected to notice sooner if it was bad fuel though as it was almost empty when I refueled so not much already in there to dilute it. Might go back to the petrol station and ask if they've had any issues though.
ETA: the fuel smell is only at the back of the car, I just assumed it was due to the car running overly rich.
Edited by GravelBen on Saturday 3rd February 11:50
My brother blew a grease filled suspension joint on his '97 Legacy GT. Somehow the flying grease managed to foul the O2 sensor on the exhaust. It had similar symptoms. I was following him and he had a black smoke and eventually sparks out of the exhaust, and the muffler was glowing red inside.
I never let the car go below 1/4 tank before i fill up just to avoid sucking up crap from the bottom of the tank.
If you smell fuel at the back you might have a loose pipe or a small tear/slit or hole in it that is letting in air and feeding the engine mostly air rather than petrol. Then when the fuel pump stops sucking the petrol drips out again. I have had that before and got similar symptons on a different car.
As others have suggested though the fault is probably down to electronics/sensor issues.
If you smell fuel at the back you might have a loose pipe or a small tear/slit or hole in it that is letting in air and feeding the engine mostly air rather than petrol. Then when the fuel pump stops sucking the petrol drips out again. I have had that before and got similar symptons on a different car.
As others have suggested though the fault is probably down to electronics/sensor issues.
If you managed to run the engine without the maf plugged in then the maf is broken. When it starts to break down the ECU can "learn" its way round this and compensates which you can check by doing the unplug the maf test.
Make sure you only get the sensor and not the housing as well from subaru as it will cost you £200 rather than £80 for a new sensor
Make sure you only get the sensor and not the housing as well from subaru as it will cost you £200 rather than £80 for a new sensor
Hi
Not got a Subaru. But my wee Exige had a very similar problem to what you describe.
Car was running fine on the motorway then all of a sudden the engine note changed, she lost power and couldn't keep an idle. Once engine cooled I could get her to idle but no power at all, and rough, lumpy as hell. Also very very strong smell of petrol.
When I got the car recovered home, I checked all the fluids, expecting to find HGF. All were fine but oil level seemed higher than normal. Turned out to be a faulty injector, (apparently an unusual failure) was free flowing fuel constantly. Too much petrol in the cylinder for combustion, was washing down the bore past the rings and into the sump. Thus higher oil level, the oil would remain clean, but should be stinking.
If you want to check you need to remove the spark plugs, disconnect the coil, disconnect the wires from the injectors, and then crank the engine. If you get a nice little Optimax fountain out of one of the cylinders then chances are!
Wallsy
Not got a Subaru. But my wee Exige had a very similar problem to what you describe.
Car was running fine on the motorway then all of a sudden the engine note changed, she lost power and couldn't keep an idle. Once engine cooled I could get her to idle but no power at all, and rough, lumpy as hell. Also very very strong smell of petrol.
When I got the car recovered home, I checked all the fluids, expecting to find HGF. All were fine but oil level seemed higher than normal. Turned out to be a faulty injector, (apparently an unusual failure) was free flowing fuel constantly. Too much petrol in the cylinder for combustion, was washing down the bore past the rings and into the sump. Thus higher oil level, the oil would remain clean, but should be stinking.
If you want to check you need to remove the spark plugs, disconnect the coil, disconnect the wires from the injectors, and then crank the engine. If you get a nice little Optimax fountain out of one of the cylinders then chances are!
Wallsy
Hmmm, injector failure is also a possibility - oil level does seem a bit higher and a bit smellier than usual, but not to the point where I'd be sure its significant.(rather than paranoia on my part thinking its more major than it is)
Think I'm gonna take the easy way and let the dealer try and find the problem, with the warranty paying for it
Just have to wait until tomorrow sometime for everything to be open.
Think I'm gonna take the easy way and let the dealer try and find the problem, with the warranty paying for it
Just have to wait until tomorrow sometime for everything to be open.
Edited by GravelBen on Sunday 4th February 08:37
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