Nissan GTR Top gear lap and Ring Time Disscusion
Discussion
I have been thinking about the Nissan GTR and there's a lot of things that do not make much sense, just take the Top gear lap.
Now the Top gear track is a track that favors cars with big power or great power to weight ratios, like the Carrera GT
Now the thing that baffles me is that the GTR weighs 3900lbs and is meant to have 480bhp and that the GTR is pretty close to the Audi R8, and in a number of tests on US spec cars rather than Jap spec "Test Mules" the GTR was having trouble with the Audi R8 only just beating it by a second or so on three different tracks, two done by edmunds and one done by EVO.
Yet here we see the GTR beating a Carrera GT on a Dry track with a time of 1:19.7,
The only way i see the 3900lb GTR beating a Carrera GT is big power like close to 650bhp.
I know before nissan were caught cheating with tweaked cars back in 1997 their R33 was massively modified to get a 7:59 time on the ring, when Top gear magazine tested there own GTR which had 350bhp they could only manage 8:37 with the same test driver that nissan used. Which showed that the GTR nissan used did not have 280bhp and was not anywhere close to being stock
This brings us to the 7:29 ring lap time, where the GTR managed 180mph on the long straight and the ZR1 only managed 179mph, but the problem is with that its been shown that the 505bhp ZO6 destroys the GTR once past 60mph and the Zr1 would pull even harder.
I read that one guy worked out for the GTR to pull as hard on the long straight on the Ring as the Corvette ZR1 recently did, that the GTR would need 700bhp to overcome that 3900lb weight, this was from that split screen GTR Vs ZR1 ring video it showed the GTR was losing out on the corners but keeping up on the straights which should be the opposite of what would happen if the GTR was so good at cornering and unable to keep up with a Zo6 in another recent street race.
There was also a article that stated the GTR had 692bhp for the 7:29 lap time which would seem right when you consider the performance on the straights.
None of this can be excused away by saying well its got 4wd, 4wd will slow you down when you have traction and at high speeds, the Dual clutch transmission can only save you 0.2 secs compared to a fast manual shift per gear, and the aero for the GTR while a 0.27 drag coefficient is good the frontal area of the GTR is alot higher than than ZR1,
So what do you guys think, i know a lot of you have track experience and would know the Ring fairly well, so how fast could you go on the long straight in a 3900lb 480bhp car could you hit 180mph would a slightly tweaked Audi 480bhp R8 manage the same feat.
I wouldn't think so, my only explanation for the fast Top Gear and 7:29 lap time is that the GTRs used on those tests were nowhere near the stock GTR's people are buying.
The fact that an article quoted the GTR as having 692bhp seems strangely accurate as it would take that kind of power to be as fast as a ZR1 on the straights, maybe that's why nissan hasn't comeback with a faster lap with the GTR if it had 692bhp they would really be pushing that engine as 600bhp+ is really pushing the boundary's of reliability as the engineer who worked on the GTRs engine said he would worry about running 600bhp+.
I just thought it strange that Nissan hasn't said anything about the ZR1 beating the lap record for a production car, and it makes me think they are running out of ways to hide the fact they are cheating again.
Im sure a lot of people will ignore the fact that the GTR with 480bhp and 3900lbs cannot stay with a ZO6
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qjmyt52-c8c
As this video showed, so explain to me how it somehow manages to keep with a ZR1 even though the Zr1 is alot faster than the Zo6.
Also I just looked for the GTRs time on the Top gear leader board but couldn't find it, maybe Top gear hasn't put it up as they know something wasn't right with that time.
http://www.topgear.com/content/tgonbbc2/laptimes/t...
Lets hope Top gear do another test of a real stock GTR and bring it to the ring with a top ring driver to prove the time as 7:29 looks doubtful when sport auto could only manage 7:50 with 7:44 being a hopeful time from Horst von Saurma and he knows how to drive the ring.
I also read that Alain prost doubted the 7:29 time for the GTR after recently testing it and it being a lot slower than the other cars like a porsche GT2 yet some mags have the GTR beating the GT2, i think i go with alain Prost as hes a pretty good driver too
.
Jerermy clarkson also doubted if the GTR could do a 7:29 in a article for the times this article i think came out after he would have done filming for the japan race so he has seemed to change his mind which we all know he does alot.
Is it just me who sees that something isn't right when a car like the GTR which does not really bring anything new or revolutionary compared to a porsche 997 turbo or a Audi R8, that when it starts to produce performance figures that don't seem to fit in with its weight and power that nissan has been up to some dirty tricks to make the GTR look better than it is.
An no i am not a GTR hater just someone who is looking past the BS about the GTR, i love japanese cars and would love to have a nice R32 GTR or Evo 6 one day. I know its a long ass post, i just wanted to know what everyone else thought about all this.
Now the Top gear track is a track that favors cars with big power or great power to weight ratios, like the Carrera GT
Now the thing that baffles me is that the GTR weighs 3900lbs and is meant to have 480bhp and that the GTR is pretty close to the Audi R8, and in a number of tests on US spec cars rather than Jap spec "Test Mules" the GTR was having trouble with the Audi R8 only just beating it by a second or so on three different tracks, two done by edmunds and one done by EVO.
Yet here we see the GTR beating a Carrera GT on a Dry track with a time of 1:19.7,
The only way i see the 3900lb GTR beating a Carrera GT is big power like close to 650bhp.
I know before nissan were caught cheating with tweaked cars back in 1997 their R33 was massively modified to get a 7:59 time on the ring, when Top gear magazine tested there own GTR which had 350bhp they could only manage 8:37 with the same test driver that nissan used. Which showed that the GTR nissan used did not have 280bhp and was not anywhere close to being stock
This brings us to the 7:29 ring lap time, where the GTR managed 180mph on the long straight and the ZR1 only managed 179mph, but the problem is with that its been shown that the 505bhp ZO6 destroys the GTR once past 60mph and the Zr1 would pull even harder.
I read that one guy worked out for the GTR to pull as hard on the long straight on the Ring as the Corvette ZR1 recently did, that the GTR would need 700bhp to overcome that 3900lb weight, this was from that split screen GTR Vs ZR1 ring video it showed the GTR was losing out on the corners but keeping up on the straights which should be the opposite of what would happen if the GTR was so good at cornering and unable to keep up with a Zo6 in another recent street race.
There was also a article that stated the GTR had 692bhp for the 7:29 lap time which would seem right when you consider the performance on the straights.
None of this can be excused away by saying well its got 4wd, 4wd will slow you down when you have traction and at high speeds, the Dual clutch transmission can only save you 0.2 secs compared to a fast manual shift per gear, and the aero for the GTR while a 0.27 drag coefficient is good the frontal area of the GTR is alot higher than than ZR1,
So what do you guys think, i know a lot of you have track experience and would know the Ring fairly well, so how fast could you go on the long straight in a 3900lb 480bhp car could you hit 180mph would a slightly tweaked Audi 480bhp R8 manage the same feat.
I wouldn't think so, my only explanation for the fast Top Gear and 7:29 lap time is that the GTRs used on those tests were nowhere near the stock GTR's people are buying.
The fact that an article quoted the GTR as having 692bhp seems strangely accurate as it would take that kind of power to be as fast as a ZR1 on the straights, maybe that's why nissan hasn't comeback with a faster lap with the GTR if it had 692bhp they would really be pushing that engine as 600bhp+ is really pushing the boundary's of reliability as the engineer who worked on the GTRs engine said he would worry about running 600bhp+.
I just thought it strange that Nissan hasn't said anything about the ZR1 beating the lap record for a production car, and it makes me think they are running out of ways to hide the fact they are cheating again.
Im sure a lot of people will ignore the fact that the GTR with 480bhp and 3900lbs cannot stay with a ZO6
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qjmyt52-c8c
As this video showed, so explain to me how it somehow manages to keep with a ZR1 even though the Zr1 is alot faster than the Zo6.
Also I just looked for the GTRs time on the Top gear leader board but couldn't find it, maybe Top gear hasn't put it up as they know something wasn't right with that time.
http://www.topgear.com/content/tgonbbc2/laptimes/t...
Lets hope Top gear do another test of a real stock GTR and bring it to the ring with a top ring driver to prove the time as 7:29 looks doubtful when sport auto could only manage 7:50 with 7:44 being a hopeful time from Horst von Saurma and he knows how to drive the ring.
I also read that Alain prost doubted the 7:29 time for the GTR after recently testing it and it being a lot slower than the other cars like a porsche GT2 yet some mags have the GTR beating the GT2, i think i go with alain Prost as hes a pretty good driver too
. Jerermy clarkson also doubted if the GTR could do a 7:29 in a article for the times this article i think came out after he would have done filming for the japan race so he has seemed to change his mind which we all know he does alot.
Is it just me who sees that something isn't right when a car like the GTR which does not really bring anything new or revolutionary compared to a porsche 997 turbo or a Audi R8, that when it starts to produce performance figures that don't seem to fit in with its weight and power that nissan has been up to some dirty tricks to make the GTR look better than it is.
An no i am not a GTR hater just someone who is looking past the BS about the GTR, i love japanese cars and would love to have a nice R32 GTR or Evo 6 one day. I know its a long ass post, i just wanted to know what everyone else thought about all this.
Howitzer said:
Could somebody not just pop it on the Autobahn and see when it stops accelerating?
They know the frontal area etc so surely top speed will show with a reasonable amount of accuracy if the power is wildy inflated or not?
Dave!
Or you could just put the car on a rolling road...They know the frontal area etc so surely top speed will show with a reasonable amount of accuracy if the power is wildy inflated or not?
Dave!
I thought the black one was probably a private car, considering that there are no official GT-Rs here yet?
Anyway it seems to use its tyres very well by being well balanced, 4WD and having lots of power! I have heard that they're quite special tyres too, these RE070R so they'll probably be hugely expensive and not last very long. A 911 or so, in comparison, might use a more generic road tyre. (I can't find the info at the moment).
I think the time seems reliable.
Anyway it seems to use its tyres very well by being well balanced, 4WD and having lots of power! I have heard that they're quite special tyres too, these RE070R so they'll probably be hugely expensive and not last very long. A 911 or so, in comparison, might use a more generic road tyre. (I can't find the info at the moment).
I think the time seems reliable.
Ravell said:
Howitzer said:
Could somebody not just pop it on the Autobahn and see when it stops accelerating?
They know the frontal area etc so surely top speed will show with a reasonable amount of accuracy if the power is wildy inflated or not?
Dave!
Or you could just put the car on a rolling road...They know the frontal area etc so surely top speed will show with a reasonable amount of accuracy if the power is wildy inflated or not?
Dave!
Dave!
My only concern about the GTR, which does not get mentioned much, is the way its power is restricted unless the satnav detetcts its on a track and turns the wick up to maximimum. This is all very well and responsible of Nissan but surley it means most of the time you are driving the thing, which will be on the road, you are not getting what you paid for. Also the Nurburgring is a de-restricted public road, so does the satnav control make a special exception to the rule in this case?
Erich Stahler said:
My only concern about the GTR, which does not get mentioned much, is the way its power is restricted unless the satnav detetcts its on a track and turns the wick up to maximimum. This is all very well and responsible of Nissan but surley it means most of the time you are driving the thing, which will be on the road, you are not getting what you paid for. Also the Nurburgring is a de-restricted public road, so does the satnav control make a special exception to the rule in this case?
It only limits top speed, same as all JDM cars, to 112mph.Only applies within Japan.
Trommel said:
CarMad426 said:
blah blah blah
Please can someone ban this idiot from the internet. Full marks for posting the same crap on every car forum ever though.
Nissan are also nicely tied up with the company who make Gran Turismo, and have mapped not only the Nurburgring, but also the Top Gear test track. It wouldn't be too difficult to set the GTR up perfectly for either.
CarMad246, What other conspiracy theories do you believe in?
The idea that Nissan could supply some sort of ‘cooking’ version of the GT-R to the worlds media and then bask in the resulting positive coverage is nonsense of the highest order. The difference in performance between a standard car and the press version would soon be spotted and would give the press a huge story, which would destroy Nissan's reputation.
P.S. 9/11 wasn’t done by little green men
The idea that Nissan could supply some sort of ‘cooking’ version of the GT-R to the worlds media and then bask in the resulting positive coverage is nonsense of the highest order. The difference in performance between a standard car and the press version would soon be spotted and would give the press a huge story, which would destroy Nissan's reputation.
P.S. 9/11 wasn’t done by little green men
Fittster said:
CarMad246, What other conspiracy theories do you believe in?
The idea that Nissan could supply some sort of ‘cooking’ version of the GT-R to the worlds media and then bask in the resulting positive coverage is nonsense of the highest order. The difference in performance between a standard car and the press version would soon be spotted and would give the press a huge story, which would destroy Nissan's reputation.
P.S. 9/11 wasn’t done by little green men
Oh come on - each GT-R comes with an unique engine output - how hard would it be for the ones with greater output to fall into the hands of the press?The idea that Nissan could supply some sort of ‘cooking’ version of the GT-R to the worlds media and then bask in the resulting positive coverage is nonsense of the highest order. The difference in performance between a standard car and the press version would soon be spotted and would give the press a huge story, which would destroy Nissan's reputation.
P.S. 9/11 wasn’t done by little green men
Fittster said:
The difference in performance between a standard car and the press version would soon be spotted and would give the press a huge story, which would destroy Nissan's reputation.
P.S. 9/11 wasn’t done by little green men
There have always been shenanigans going on with the car industry though, the E-type that was tweaked to give 150mph and then passed of as standard, I noticed in the latest MOTO GP race Ducatti had mapped the bike throttle response for Laguna Seca, so for each corner exit the bike acceleration was the maximum traction allowed for the particular characteristics of camber/lean/decent/ascent must be worth a second or two per lap. Plus it is relatively easy to up the boost on a turbo car, if a Max Power reader can do it then for Japan's finest engineers it is like asking if bears use the woods as a toilet.P.S. 9/11 wasn’t done by little green men
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