Subaru wr1 or evo 8 fq340
Poll: Subaru wr1 or evo 8 fq340
Total Members Polled: 54
Discussion
If i wanted an out of the box trackday toy, of the two it would be the EVO. IMHO i still think the suspension is just a bit too harsh for everyday use on our very rubbish and heavily potholed UK roads although it will be the quicker and probably the lighter of the two. More pin sharp steering and focus on a circuit for sure.
However, seeing as you're unlikely to be doing trackdays every weekend and more likely to be having the odd B-Road blast i think the WR1 is a much better option and will feel very well planted on UK roads. The Denso ECU on the WR1 is a cracking unit and very tuneable indeed. You should be able to squeeze another 30 or so bhp out of it without any further physical mods and it will make all the difference to the drive not to mention make it a fair bit swifter too even though they are already pretty quick as standard. I'd like to see the EVO keep up with you then.
Also as has already been said....much better looking too!!
WR1
However, seeing as you're unlikely to be doing trackdays every weekend and more likely to be having the odd B-Road blast i think the WR1 is a much better option and will feel very well planted on UK roads. The Denso ECU on the WR1 is a cracking unit and very tuneable indeed. You should be able to squeeze another 30 or so bhp out of it without any further physical mods and it will make all the difference to the drive not to mention make it a fair bit swifter too even though they are already pretty quick as standard. I'd like to see the EVO keep up with you then.
Also as has already been said....much better looking too!!
WR1
The MR340 has a very compliant Bilstein suspension and copes brilliantly with our worst road conditions.
Acceleration, handling and looks (esp gunmetal grey) are awesome.
The WR1 is quite rare and is a great road car, but the Evo (also rare) is a more focused, faster driving machine.....drive one, then try a WR1 and you'll learn all about understeer!
As The Stig said, "The Subaru is for boys, the Evo is for men!"
Evo all the way!
Acceleration, handling and looks (esp gunmetal grey) are awesome.
The WR1 is quite rare and is a great road car, but the Evo (also rare) is a more focused, faster driving machine.....drive one, then try a WR1 and you'll learn all about understeer!
As The Stig said, "The Subaru is for boys, the Evo is for men!"
Evo all the way!
EVO drivers think they have the best car since sliced bread but in reality although it's a bloody good car it has it's fair share of cons too. The great thing about Subaru's is that you have to be a good driver really exploit the full on subaru experience and potential. They don't have traction control, or yaw control or do the driving for you via all the on-board electronics. It's easy to drive a car that reigns in the power for you and straightens itself up when you get into trouble.
Subaru's have no traction control or yaw control or any other automatic driver assistance control apart from STi's and the odd special having the DCCD but that's it and even then you still have control over it and you choose manually how much power you want going to the rear wheels. A scooby won't do anything you don't want it to do.
I'm happy to say the only traction control tool i need is my right foot and as for yaw control i prefer to use the feeling in the seat of my pants in conjunction with manual steering input and a well calibrated right foot to point my car in the right direction
That's why i bought a scoob over an EVO and i've driven both back to back before i made the choice....Subaru's are nicer to live with every day!!
Equally newage scoobs don't need a service every 4500 miles and are less expensive to keep on the road overall as well as being better on petrol (average 25mpg and a 60ltr fuel tank). The WR1 is a rare beast and you would be joining a very exclusive club indeed.
Go and drive both back to back and i'm confident you'll opt for the scoob. The EVO will make you feel like to get the best of it you have to drive it at 10 10ths and the WR1 will make you feel like you could let your granny have a drive of it just to go to the shops it's such a calm beast. However, i bet your granny would also love taking it down the odd b-road
Subaru's have no traction control or yaw control or any other automatic driver assistance control apart from STi's and the odd special having the DCCD but that's it and even then you still have control over it and you choose manually how much power you want going to the rear wheels. A scooby won't do anything you don't want it to do.
I'm happy to say the only traction control tool i need is my right foot and as for yaw control i prefer to use the feeling in the seat of my pants in conjunction with manual steering input and a well calibrated right foot to point my car in the right direction
That's why i bought a scoob over an EVO and i've driven both back to back before i made the choice....Subaru's are nicer to live with every day!!Equally newage scoobs don't need a service every 4500 miles and are less expensive to keep on the road overall as well as being better on petrol (average 25mpg and a 60ltr fuel tank). The WR1 is a rare beast and you would be joining a very exclusive club indeed.
Go and drive both back to back and i'm confident you'll opt for the scoob. The EVO will make you feel like to get the best of it you have to drive it at 10 10ths and the WR1 will make you feel like you could let your granny have a drive of it just to go to the shops it's such a calm beast. However, i bet your granny would also love taking it down the odd b-road
It never ceases to amaze me how many people who purportedly know about cars talk about traction control and Evos.
Here it is in simple terms:
None of the Evo 1 to 9s have traction control.
What they do have is a front, centre and rear LSD and some (not all) have an active yaw control system which is an electronic controller of the diffs that simply moves torque around the car according to where the car, via g sensors etc, senses the most grip is.
What that means is that the car will do its absolute best to get the most grip out of the car in the corner, including moving power between the wheels and axles, but it won't ever reign in over exuberance or put the brakes on. Surely all the clips of Evos travelling sideways tells you that they don't have traction control?!
That is part of the reason why Evos corner phenomenally well, but why so many of them end up in hedges. It will give you all it's got to get the maximum grip, but once you're beyond that grip level you're on you're own!
A whole subset of Evos (the RS models) don't even have the AYC mentioned above and just rely on mechanical differentials.
So, I would suggest that whenever someone mentions traction control and Evo in the same sentence, they don't really understand what they're talking about.
Even worse is the "I like to drive my car, not have the ECUs/electronics do it".
It's obviously a touch over the top to say it, but think of the electronics in an Evo as like those in an F1 car, they are only there to improve the car's potential performance, not correct the driver's mistakes.
They certainly make the car easier to drive extremely fast, but it takes more than any idiot just stepping into the car to get the most out of the car even with them there.
The reason many people think Evos are easy to drive is because the car is so well set up and forgiving. It doesn't mean they're easy to drive at the car's potential. There's a reason why the Evos dominate Group N rallying and a lot of UK amateur sprinting motorsport.
I've been driving mine for two and a half years now and have had quite a bit of instruction on it and I'm still sure I can only drive the car at a fraction of what it can really do.
Here it is in simple terms:
None of the Evo 1 to 9s have traction control.
What they do have is a front, centre and rear LSD and some (not all) have an active yaw control system which is an electronic controller of the diffs that simply moves torque around the car according to where the car, via g sensors etc, senses the most grip is.
What that means is that the car will do its absolute best to get the most grip out of the car in the corner, including moving power between the wheels and axles, but it won't ever reign in over exuberance or put the brakes on. Surely all the clips of Evos travelling sideways tells you that they don't have traction control?!
That is part of the reason why Evos corner phenomenally well, but why so many of them end up in hedges. It will give you all it's got to get the maximum grip, but once you're beyond that grip level you're on you're own!
A whole subset of Evos (the RS models) don't even have the AYC mentioned above and just rely on mechanical differentials.
So, I would suggest that whenever someone mentions traction control and Evo in the same sentence, they don't really understand what they're talking about.
Even worse is the "I like to drive my car, not have the ECUs/electronics do it".
It's obviously a touch over the top to say it, but think of the electronics in an Evo as like those in an F1 car, they are only there to improve the car's potential performance, not correct the driver's mistakes.
They certainly make the car easier to drive extremely fast, but it takes more than any idiot just stepping into the car to get the most out of the car even with them there.
The reason many people think Evos are easy to drive is because the car is so well set up and forgiving. It doesn't mean they're easy to drive at the car's potential. There's a reason why the Evos dominate Group N rallying and a lot of UK amateur sprinting motorsport.
I've been driving mine for two and a half years now and have had quite a bit of instruction on it and I'm still sure I can only drive the car at a fraction of what it can really do.
Edited by youngsyr on Wednesday 22 April 23:49
Active Yaw Control
First incorporated into the Evo IV, was developed by Mitsubishi to improve a vehicle's cornering and acceleration performance, and consequently its safety, under a wide range of operating conditions.
This is achieved by utilising a torque transfer differential which is controlled by various sensors and an electronic control unit (ECU) to enable a difference in torque to go to each of the rear wheels.
e.g. in a right hand bend, by increasing the level of torque to the left rear wheel and reducing the torque level to the right wheel, it is possible to change the yaw movement of the vehicle. This in turn will cause the vehicle to steer inwards and reduce the amount of slip on the front tyres, thus resulting in reduced under-steer. It also works if over-steer occurs by reducing the torque level to the left hand rear wheel and increasing the torque level to the right hand wheel, again changing the yaw movement to reduce over-steer by controlling the amount of torque transmitted to the rear wheels when there is less traction, or a difference in grip on the road surface.
Active Centre Differential
The Active Centre Differential
First introduced in the Evo VII, is an electronically controlled hydraulic multi-plate clutch which distributes torque between the front and rear to improve traction under acceleration out of a corner. It works in conjunction with Active Yaw Control which enhances grip and steering response whilst driving through the bend itself. Using sensors, ACD regulates slippage in the 50:50 torque-split diff from free to lock-up according to speed and load. So under hard acceleration the ACD moves towards lock-up to put more torque down on the road for stronger traction, but with rapid steering inputs it operates virtually like an open differential to improve steering feel and response.
If neither of the above descriptions, both AYC on it's own and in conjunction with ACD sound like forms of traction control then truly i don't know what traction control is.
First incorporated into the Evo IV, was developed by Mitsubishi to improve a vehicle's cornering and acceleration performance, and consequently its safety, under a wide range of operating conditions.
This is achieved by utilising a torque transfer differential which is controlled by various sensors and an electronic control unit (ECU) to enable a difference in torque to go to each of the rear wheels.
e.g. in a right hand bend, by increasing the level of torque to the left rear wheel and reducing the torque level to the right wheel, it is possible to change the yaw movement of the vehicle. This in turn will cause the vehicle to steer inwards and reduce the amount of slip on the front tyres, thus resulting in reduced under-steer. It also works if over-steer occurs by reducing the torque level to the left hand rear wheel and increasing the torque level to the right hand wheel, again changing the yaw movement to reduce over-steer by controlling the amount of torque transmitted to the rear wheels when there is less traction, or a difference in grip on the road surface.
Active Centre Differential
The Active Centre Differential
First introduced in the Evo VII, is an electronically controlled hydraulic multi-plate clutch which distributes torque between the front and rear to improve traction under acceleration out of a corner. It works in conjunction with Active Yaw Control which enhances grip and steering response whilst driving through the bend itself. Using sensors, ACD regulates slippage in the 50:50 torque-split diff from free to lock-up according to speed and load. So under hard acceleration the ACD moves towards lock-up to put more torque down on the road for stronger traction, but with rapid steering inputs it operates virtually like an open differential to improve steering feel and response.
If neither of the above descriptions, both AYC on it's own and in conjunction with ACD sound like forms of traction control then truly i don't know what traction control is.
ScoobieWRX said:
Active Yaw Control
First incorporated into the Evo IV, was developed by Mitsubishi to improve a vehicle's cornering and acceleration performance, and consequently its safety, under a wide range of operating conditions.
This is achieved by utilising a torque transfer differential which is controlled by various sensors and an electronic control unit (ECU) to enable a difference in torque to go to each of the rear wheels.
e.g. in a right hand bend, by increasing the level of torque to the left rear wheel and reducing the torque level to the right wheel, it is possible to change the yaw movement of the vehicle. This in turn will cause the vehicle to steer inwards and reduce the amount of slip on the front tyres, thus resulting in reduced under-steer. It also works if over-steer occurs by reducing the torque level to the left hand rear wheel and increasing the torque level to the right hand wheel, again changing the yaw movement to reduce over-steer by controlling the amount of torque transmitted to the rear wheels when there is less traction, or a difference in grip on the road surface.
Active Centre Differential
The Active Centre Differential
First introduced in the Evo VII, is an electronically controlled hydraulic multi-plate clutch which distributes torque between the front and rear to improve traction under acceleration out of a corner. It works in conjunction with Active Yaw Control which enhances grip and steering response whilst driving through the bend itself. Using sensors, ACD regulates slippage in the 50:50 torque-split diff from free to lock-up according to speed and load. So under hard acceleration the ACD moves towards lock-up to put more torque down on the road for stronger traction, but with rapid steering inputs it operates virtually like an open differential to improve steering feel and response.
If neither of the above descriptions, both AYC on it's own and in conjunction with ACD sound like forms of traction control then truly i don't know what traction control is.
So explain to me how that cut and paste ties in with your original post, particularly this part:First incorporated into the Evo IV, was developed by Mitsubishi to improve a vehicle's cornering and acceleration performance, and consequently its safety, under a wide range of operating conditions.
This is achieved by utilising a torque transfer differential which is controlled by various sensors and an electronic control unit (ECU) to enable a difference in torque to go to each of the rear wheels.
e.g. in a right hand bend, by increasing the level of torque to the left rear wheel and reducing the torque level to the right wheel, it is possible to change the yaw movement of the vehicle. This in turn will cause the vehicle to steer inwards and reduce the amount of slip on the front tyres, thus resulting in reduced under-steer. It also works if over-steer occurs by reducing the torque level to the left hand rear wheel and increasing the torque level to the right hand wheel, again changing the yaw movement to reduce over-steer by controlling the amount of torque transmitted to the rear wheels when there is less traction, or a difference in grip on the road surface.
Active Centre Differential
The Active Centre Differential
First introduced in the Evo VII, is an electronically controlled hydraulic multi-plate clutch which distributes torque between the front and rear to improve traction under acceleration out of a corner. It works in conjunction with Active Yaw Control which enhances grip and steering response whilst driving through the bend itself. Using sensors, ACD regulates slippage in the 50:50 torque-split diff from free to lock-up according to speed and load. So under hard acceleration the ACD moves towards lock-up to put more torque down on the road for stronger traction, but with rapid steering inputs it operates virtually like an open differential to improve steering feel and response.
If neither of the above descriptions, both AYC on it's own and in conjunction with ACD sound like forms of traction control then truly i don't know what traction control is.
ScoobieWRX said:
It's easy to drive a car that reigns in the power for you and straightens itself up when you get into trouble.
The AYC and ACD in Evos do not reign in power at all, they simply redistribute it between the wheels to provide maximum grip.You'll also notice that nowhere in your cut and paste does it say that the Evo will "straighten[s] itself up when you get into trouble".
Here, have a rolled eyes yourself:
Edited by youngsyr on Thursday 23 April 15:27
It was a cut and paste, i never said it wasn't as i called them 'descriptions'. They came off a Mitsubishi site. After i read them to me it was clear that they are both forms of traction control. If not, what are they??
Look, at the end of the day i prefer driving a car i can live with every day from a driving and cost of ownership point of view. I don't need or want all the electronic gizmo's or a track focussed machine with suspension that will knock your teeth or your back out as std!! If i wanted a superhandling trackday machine i'd go out and buy a Caterham or an Atom. I've driven both EVO and Scooby back to back and the Scooby was a much more comfortable and compliant drive. Compared to the Scoob the EVO was a very harsh ride.
I've got a mechanical LSD at the back and a mechanical open diff at the front, no electronic controls shifting torque about, suspension that is nicely compliant for crappy UK roads, a 5spd box that works well and is nice to use, an engine that's bloody reliable and kicks out plenty of power for road and occasional track use as std, it always feels properly planted on B-roads at any speed and doesn't break down no matter how much abuse it takes. It can be easily and inexpensively modified to put out a lot more power than std with easy upgrades for better handling/braking to match. And to cap it all off it only needs servicing every 10K miles.
I've no doubts that EVO ownership for those that prefer them is a very performance/handling satisfying ownership experience, but they aren't cheap to own and run every day, and with even less MPG and a smaller fuel capacity than a scoob you'll soon become a dab hand at using petrol pumps from all the practice!!
How often do you like filling up at todays rising fuel prices??
Lets dispence with the whatever techy 8u11s
t we do or don't know because it really doesn't matter. It's what the cars drive like and for the OP's type of use IMHO the Scooby is more appropriate as the better all rounder that won't break the bank, and i think once he's driven both back to back properly he'll go for the scoob!!
Remember quite some time back the TopGear crew tested the EVO and Scooby back to back, and although they said the EVO was the quicker and better handling of the two on track the Scooby was the one they wanted to go home in!! Nuff said!!
Look, at the end of the day i prefer driving a car i can live with every day from a driving and cost of ownership point of view. I don't need or want all the electronic gizmo's or a track focussed machine with suspension that will knock your teeth or your back out as std!! If i wanted a superhandling trackday machine i'd go out and buy a Caterham or an Atom. I've driven both EVO and Scooby back to back and the Scooby was a much more comfortable and compliant drive. Compared to the Scoob the EVO was a very harsh ride.
I've got a mechanical LSD at the back and a mechanical open diff at the front, no electronic controls shifting torque about, suspension that is nicely compliant for crappy UK roads, a 5spd box that works well and is nice to use, an engine that's bloody reliable and kicks out plenty of power for road and occasional track use as std, it always feels properly planted on B-roads at any speed and doesn't break down no matter how much abuse it takes. It can be easily and inexpensively modified to put out a lot more power than std with easy upgrades for better handling/braking to match. And to cap it all off it only needs servicing every 10K miles.
I've no doubts that EVO ownership for those that prefer them is a very performance/handling satisfying ownership experience, but they aren't cheap to own and run every day, and with even less MPG and a smaller fuel capacity than a scoob you'll soon become a dab hand at using petrol pumps from all the practice!!
How often do you like filling up at todays rising fuel prices??
Lets dispence with the whatever techy 8u11s
t we do or don't know because it really doesn't matter. It's what the cars drive like and for the OP's type of use IMHO the Scooby is more appropriate as the better all rounder that won't break the bank, and i think once he's driven both back to back properly he'll go for the scoob!!Remember quite some time back the TopGear crew tested the EVO and Scooby back to back, and although they said the EVO was the quicker and better handling of the two on track the Scooby was the one they wanted to go home in!! Nuff said!!
ScoobieWRX said:
It was a cut and paste, i never said it wasn't as i called them 'descriptions'. They came off a Mitsubishi site. After i read them to me it was clear that they are both forms of traction control. If not, what are they??
Well that's where I disagree with you and the reason I felt the need to point it out is because you're far from the only person to call the Evo's AYC and ACD "traction control" and mean it in the sense that the car takes control away from you and "straigtens itself up" or "reigns in power" if you're making a hash of things in the same way that traction control on an Audi or a BMW does.They do no such thing, all they do is maximise the grip available during cornering when you're on the throttle.
Yes, this does reduce both understeer and oversteer in certain situations, but so do semi-slick tyres, or the completely mechanical LSDs on your car, but I doubt you'd call them a form of traction control?
In effect, they are simply more intelligent LSDs than you have on your car, relying on more than just mechanical input to shift the torque to where it's best utilised to maxmise grip.
I have no idea whether the Evo or the Scoobie is the better car for the OP; I made my choice and he'll have to make his. What I do know is that inaccurate information on either car isn't going to help him make his choice.
Edited by youngsyr on Friday 24th April 11:37
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