Discussion
Im looking at getting either a toyota supra or mazda RX-7 but im having trouble trying to decide which one i want, hence looking for some of your opinions. I have about £4k to spend so can afford a standard model of each, which i'll then tune up over time.
I'm basically looking for some opinions on what people think is best
Cheers
Tom
I'm basically looking for some opinions on what people think is best
Cheers
Tom
Gazboy said:
Drive both and seek advice from the owners clubs of those who have owned both cars, there's plenty who have. Do your homework and check WHO has done what as the Jap scene is populated by both magpies that jizz at anything shiny and would rather waste £2000 on chrome 19's than freshen up the car & "tuners" who really couldn't tell their arse from their elbow. Both models attract knobs like a door factory so good luck separating the wheat from the chaff.
Glad someone tells it like it is about the Jap scene. I love the cars but some of the owners... Edited by Johnny Rocco on Thursday 18th June 17:13
Gazboy said:
Drive both and seek advice from the owners clubs of those who have owned both cars, there's plenty who have. Do your homework and check WHO has done what as the Jap scene is populated by both magpies that jizz at anything shiny and would rather waste £2000 on chrome 19's than freshen up the car & "tuners" who really couldn't tell their arse from their elbow. Both models attract knobs like a door factory so good luck separating the wheat from the chaff.
haha i know what you mean. I only know someone with a supra so i know what thats like, well sort of as its a 500bhp beast, but dont know any one with a Rex. Sound advice so far from people, thank you very much. Which ever i get the plan is to subtly modify the body shape and spend most money on increasing performance, so the next question i suppose, not sure whether this will sound really stupid or not but here goes, is one of them "more tune-able" than the other? I'm very sorry if that sounds really stupid.Gazboy said:
Drive both and seek advice from the owners clubs of those who have owned both cars, there's plenty who have. Do your homework and check WHO has done what as the Jap scene is populated by both magpies that jizz at anything shiny and would rather waste £2000 on chrome 19's than freshen up the car & "tuners" who really couldn't tell their arse from their elbow. Both models attract knobs like a door factory so good luck separating the wheat from the chaff.
Amen Brother.tom_acton said:
Gazboy said:
Drive both and seek advice from the owners clubs of those who have owned both cars, there's plenty who have. Do your homework and check WHO has done what as the Jap scene is populated by both magpies that jizz at anything shiny and would rather waste £2000 on chrome 19's than freshen up the car & "tuners" who really couldn't tell their arse from their elbow. Both models attract knobs like a door factory so good luck separating the wheat from the chaff.
haha i know what you mean. I only know someone with a supra so i know what thats like, well sort of as its a 500bhp beast, but dont know any one with a Rex. Sound advice so far from people, thank you very much. Which ever i get the plan is to subtly modify the body shape and spend most money on increasing performance, so the next question i suppose, not sure whether this will sound really stupid or not but here goes, is one of them "more tune-able" than the other? I'm very sorry if that sounds really stupid.Both can be tuned to eye watering levels of HP - how much have you got to spunk? Just realise that as soon as your £1000 apexi fuel managment system is on the car that the majority of that money is gone forever.
BenjC said:
Why not keep the RX or Sup standard? The are fast cars out of the box. Quite frankly you will be more individual and have car that will not depreciate as fast if you keep it bone stock.
Both can be tuned to eye watering levels of HP - how much have you got to spunk? Just realise that as soon as your £1000 apexi fuel managment system is on the car that the majority of that money is gone forever.
Gazboy said:
'Performance' air cones are a waste of time on the Supra, you're better off leaving it as it is.
If you change the exhaust and take the cats out you will need a restrictor plate (known as a ring) to limit the airflow otherwise the turbos will over-boost.
There's three ways of tuning a Supra - properly, cheap and nasty or like a sheep not thinking for yourself. Some would deem a stand alone EMS as overkill for a car running more than 1.0 bar and would rather God sort out their fueling (same goes for air actually). The Toyota ECU is locked and cannot be remapped and only has maps up to 1.1 bar of boost, after that it puts the injectors to 100% duty cycle in a kind of self preservation. Plenty of people seem to think this is ok but I find it an insane way to run a car.
May I suggest refreshing the suspension and brakes before going for more power, and a new smic would be good as a 14 year old one will be shot to pieces.
cheap and nasty is not in my dictionary. I've seen many people cut all sorts of corners or use substandard parts and have a large repair bill fairly soon after! Why is the ECU locked? That's something i didnt know. Are there aftermarket ECU's which can be fitted and mapped or is it best to just leave it alone?If you change the exhaust and take the cats out you will need a restrictor plate (known as a ring) to limit the airflow otherwise the turbos will over-boost.
There's three ways of tuning a Supra - properly, cheap and nasty or like a sheep not thinking for yourself. Some would deem a stand alone EMS as overkill for a car running more than 1.0 bar and would rather God sort out their fueling (same goes for air actually). The Toyota ECU is locked and cannot be remapped and only has maps up to 1.1 bar of boost, after that it puts the injectors to 100% duty cycle in a kind of self preservation. Plenty of people seem to think this is ok but I find it an insane way to run a car.
May I suggest refreshing the suspension and brakes before going for more power, and a new smic would be good as a 14 year old one will be shot to pieces.
I ran an rx7 for a while, it was awsome, but be prepared to bend over for the fuel bills. I struggled to get 15 mpg, and when i really gave it some it went well under 10 mpg 
The supra should be able to get 20+ if you drive it smoothly and let the torque do the work.
The rx7 will hanlde waaaay better as stock, mine was and it was very planted. Supra's are a big gt car, so even with better suspension etc itll still be nowhere near an rx7.
As for tuning, both can reach 300-350 relativly cheaply, but the big thing with an rx7 is you NEED a standalone ecu before anything else. Even changing the air filter without the ecu can f
k things up. Best one for it is in my opinion the Apexi Power Fc. Cost about 600, and thats it, itll run the rx7 for any ammount of power you like, and its easily remappable be yourself with a laptop, so worth the investment.
If you're going big power, id say the supra is easier. the stock crank will take 1000bhp. The stock pistons/conrods will take 600bhp (or more, someone ran one at 1000bhp on stock bottom end). All you need is ecu, air filter, intercooler, exhaust and a single turbo kit and youve got yourself a very reliable 600bhp. The gearbox, if not misstreated will run 1000bhp all day.
The rx7 will run about 350 on a stock engine, but after that you really need to rebuild it, so you can open up the ports inside to flow more air (like porting a head on a normal engine etc) Depending on how wild you go with porting, you can see upto 1000bhp too, but itll be less civilised then a supra engine of same spec.
Personally for that monmey, the rx7 would do you better. Better looking, better handling and much faster. Reliability will be fine as long as you look after it.
The supra should be able to get 20+ if you drive it smoothly and let the torque do the work.The rx7 will hanlde waaaay better as stock, mine was and it was very planted. Supra's are a big gt car, so even with better suspension etc itll still be nowhere near an rx7.
As for tuning, both can reach 300-350 relativly cheaply, but the big thing with an rx7 is you NEED a standalone ecu before anything else. Even changing the air filter without the ecu can f
k things up. Best one for it is in my opinion the Apexi Power Fc. Cost about 600, and thats it, itll run the rx7 for any ammount of power you like, and its easily remappable be yourself with a laptop, so worth the investment.If you're going big power, id say the supra is easier. the stock crank will take 1000bhp. The stock pistons/conrods will take 600bhp (or more, someone ran one at 1000bhp on stock bottom end). All you need is ecu, air filter, intercooler, exhaust and a single turbo kit and youve got yourself a very reliable 600bhp. The gearbox, if not misstreated will run 1000bhp all day.
The rx7 will run about 350 on a stock engine, but after that you really need to rebuild it, so you can open up the ports inside to flow more air (like porting a head on a normal engine etc) Depending on how wild you go with porting, you can see upto 1000bhp too, but itll be less civilised then a supra engine of same spec.
Personally for that monmey, the rx7 would do you better. Better looking, better handling and much faster. Reliability will be fine as long as you look after it.
Rotary Madness said:
I ran an rx7 for a while, it was awsome, but be prepared to bend over for the fuel bills. I struggled to get 15 mpg, and when i really gave it some it went well under 10 mpg The supra should be able to get 20+ if you drive it smoothly and let the torque do the work.
The rx7 will hanlde waaaay better as stock, mine was and it was very planted. Supra's are a big gt car, so even with better suspension etc itll still be nowhere near an rx7.
As for tuning, both can reach 300-350 relativly cheaply, but the big thing with an rx7 is you NEED a standalone ecu before anything else. Even changing the air filter without the ecu can fk things up. Best one for it is in my opinion the Apexi Power Fc. Cost about 600, and thats it, itll run the rx7 for any ammount of power you like, and its easily remappable be yourself with a laptop, so worth the investment.
If you're going big power, id say the supra is easier. the stock crank will take 1000bhp. The stock pistons/conrods will take 600bhp (or more, someone ran one at 1000bhp on stock bottom end). All you need is ecu, air filter, intercooler, exhaust and a single turbo kit and youve got yourself a very reliable 600bhp. The gearbox, if not misstreated will run 1000bhp all day.
The rx7 will run about 350 on a stock engine, but after that you really need to rebuild it, so you can open up the ports inside to flow more air (like porting a head on a normal engine etc) Depending on how wild you go with porting, you can see upto 1000bhp too, but itll be less civilised then a supra engine of same spec.
Personally for that monmey, the rx7 would do you better. Better looking, better handling and much faster. Reliability will be fine as long as you look after it.
Thank you for the detailed response, it is much appreciated. I have to commute 70 miles for 3/4 days a week on the motorway going to uni so maybe the supra would suit me slightly better in that respect! Only slightly though! The supra should be able to get 20+ if you drive it smoothly and let the torque do the work.The rx7 will hanlde waaaay better as stock, mine was and it was very planted. Supra's are a big gt car, so even with better suspension etc itll still be nowhere near an rx7.
As for tuning, both can reach 300-350 relativly cheaply, but the big thing with an rx7 is you NEED a standalone ecu before anything else. Even changing the air filter without the ecu can f
k things up. Best one for it is in my opinion the Apexi Power Fc. Cost about 600, and thats it, itll run the rx7 for any ammount of power you like, and its easily remappable be yourself with a laptop, so worth the investment.If you're going big power, id say the supra is easier. the stock crank will take 1000bhp. The stock pistons/conrods will take 600bhp (or more, someone ran one at 1000bhp on stock bottom end). All you need is ecu, air filter, intercooler, exhaust and a single turbo kit and youve got yourself a very reliable 600bhp. The gearbox, if not misstreated will run 1000bhp all day.
The rx7 will run about 350 on a stock engine, but after that you really need to rebuild it, so you can open up the ports inside to flow more air (like porting a head on a normal engine etc) Depending on how wild you go with porting, you can see upto 1000bhp too, but itll be less civilised then a supra engine of same spec.
Personally for that monmey, the rx7 would do you better. Better looking, better handling and much faster. Reliability will be fine as long as you look after it.
So just to be clear, can u get aftermarket ECU's for the supra? And if so, which is the best one?
Gazboy said:
Much faster?
Funnily enough there was nothing in it to 153mph between my stock Supra and IainT's RX7 with a cat-back & Apexi PFC fitted. Results in the Vmax site (Vmax Sunburn - ran on one of the hottest days of 2007)
I was on about an N/A supra vs turbo rx7. Unless ofcourse you can find me a nice turbo supra for 4k, in which case ill bite your hand off for it Funnily enough there was nothing in it to 153mph between my stock Supra and IainT's RX7 with a cat-back & Apexi PFC fitted. Results in the Vmax site (Vmax Sunburn - ran on one of the hottest days of 2007)
Gazboy said:
Rotary Madness said:
Gazboy said:
Much faster?
Funnily enough there was nothing in it to 153mph between my stock Supra and IainT's RX7 with a cat-back & Apexi PFC fitted. Results in the Vmax site (Vmax Sunburn - ran on one of the hottest days of 2007)
I was on about an N/A supra vs turbo rx7. Unless ofcourse you can find me a nice turbo supra for 4k, in which case ill bite your hand off for it Funnily enough there was nothing in it to 153mph between my stock Supra and IainT's RX7 with a cat-back & Apexi PFC fitted. Results in the Vmax site (Vmax Sunburn - ran on one of the hottest days of 2007)
ked at that price, and always an auto. I know some people would be fine with that, but mine would have to be a manual, so that puts it in the 10k range 
An rx7 as a standard package is very good. 50/50 balance, good grip, pretty sure it has an lsd as standard and i never once had an oh s
t moment when using its brakes, unlike my impreza before it 
Its just the fuel usage is that of a small power station Gazboy said:
I know two people who paid £3800 & £4000 for black 6 speeders with 60k-ish on the clock, both mint but they are the exception rather than the rule.
Don't write the autos off without driving them btw, that box is very very good. If it had 6 gears I wouldn't even consider the manual but the 4 are too widely spaced and are the only downside imo.
Bloody hell Don't write the autos off without driving them btw, that box is very very good. If it had 6 gears I wouldn't even consider the manual but the 4 are too widely spaced and are the only downside imo.
Edited by Gazboy on Friday 19th June 01:13
when i come to buy a supra, i REALLY hope i find a deal like that. Usually cost twice that amount for an ok one!Having owned both, I prefer the RX7, love the howl of the rotary, the feel of the car, the ease that you can kick the tail out, and of course, it looks so so sexy. But I do think that you need to be a bit of an idiot to own an RX7 that isn't atleast an occasional track car.
As for costs, right now I am so poor it's unbelievable. As has been said above, don't expect to see 20mpg on standard twins, regardless of how you drive it. Tuning is expensive, before you do anything, get an Apexi. DO NOT try and map it yourself with a laptop unless you really do know what you're doing, take it somewhere reputable like RE:Worx. Rotary engines are pretty reliable, but delicate. Try mapping yourself and get it wrong, say hello to one really lovely bill. Like Gaz said, too many people try and tune cheaply, and then blame decent tuners when they're faced with a rebuild. If you do go for an FD, look into brakes and cooling first, make sure the engine is really running healthily before even thinking about power.
Supras are great, really lovely cars, but a bit more of a GT cruiser, which is why I eventually got rid. Was after a really focused sports car. I never tuned the Supra as I was a bit young, and 330bhp was plenty quick enough.
As for each cars owners scenes, in my experience, Supras tend to attract a few more idiots than RX7s (no offence Gaz!), probably due to rebuilds and the Fast and the Furious. But whatever you buy, there will be idiots who are an embarrassment to the real enthusiast owners, thats life. Both cars have got great owners clubs who, I'm sure would be more than happy to help you out with advice and tips on buying.
As for costs, right now I am so poor it's unbelievable. As has been said above, don't expect to see 20mpg on standard twins, regardless of how you drive it. Tuning is expensive, before you do anything, get an Apexi. DO NOT try and map it yourself with a laptop unless you really do know what you're doing, take it somewhere reputable like RE:Worx. Rotary engines are pretty reliable, but delicate. Try mapping yourself and get it wrong, say hello to one really lovely bill. Like Gaz said, too many people try and tune cheaply, and then blame decent tuners when they're faced with a rebuild. If you do go for an FD, look into brakes and cooling first, make sure the engine is really running healthily before even thinking about power.
Supras are great, really lovely cars, but a bit more of a GT cruiser, which is why I eventually got rid. Was after a really focused sports car. I never tuned the Supra as I was a bit young, and 330bhp was plenty quick enough.
As for each cars owners scenes, in my experience, Supras tend to attract a few more idiots than RX7s (no offence Gaz!), probably due to rebuilds and the Fast and the Furious. But whatever you buy, there will be idiots who are an embarrassment to the real enthusiast owners, thats life. Both cars have got great owners clubs who, I'm sure would be more than happy to help you out with advice and tips on buying.
cocopop said:
Supras are great, really lovely cars, but a bit more of a GT cruiser
See for me, with the motorway commute to uni and back, 35 miles each way, i need a car that is better at cruising.cocopop said:
whatever you buy, there will be idiots who are an embarrassment to the real enthusiast owners
Yes unfortunately i know this fact to be true. Its a shame but at the end of the day i know that what im doing is for my own enjoyment, rather than trying to pose to all the other wannabes.
)Gazboy said:
Much faster?
Funnily enough there was nothing in it to 153mph between my stock Supra and IainT's RX7 with a cat-back & Apexi PFC fitted. Results in the Vmax site (Vmax Sunburn - ran on one of the hottest days of 2007)
This is true - although I had major heat issues that day.Funnily enough there was nothing in it to 153mph between my stock Supra and IainT's RX7 with a cat-back & Apexi PFC fitted. Results in the Vmax site (Vmax Sunburn - ran on one of the hottest days of 2007)
Not quite as many heat issues the daya I ran 171 at VMax and lost a tip.
Haven't run a Vmax since then but the power is ~75-100bhp more than the 171mph run!
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