Middlehurst GTR - plus...running costs?
Discussion
Anyone dealt with Middlehurst Nissan? What were they like? Good / bad?
Also....has anyone actually run a new GTR themselves and can let me in on things like:
- MPG they're achieving during normal and spirited driving
- how fast they're going through consumable (tyres, oil etc.)
- what the reliability of the cars been like, and overal "toughness" of what seems a pretty advanced vehicle
And lastly....would you recommend ownership? I'm kinda tempted, as it looks like a interesting alternative to a 911 as a daily driver with higher running costs but a lower purchase price.
Also....has anyone actually run a new GTR themselves and can let me in on things like:
- MPG they're achieving during normal and spirited driving
- how fast they're going through consumable (tyres, oil etc.)
- what the reliability of the cars been like, and overal "toughness" of what seems a pretty advanced vehicle
And lastly....would you recommend ownership? I'm kinda tempted, as it looks like a interesting alternative to a 911 as a daily driver with higher running costs but a lower purchase price.
You could email John R, he got his there - http://www.pistonheads.co.uk/gassing/profile.asp?m...
I bought mine from Middlehurst and I bought my R32 from them in 1995!
Nobody has more experience dealing with GT-Rs.
I'm currently at my highest average mpg of 16.6, but that is mainly because of having to cruise between SPECS cameras on the M25 yesterday!
Normally 15s is more realistic for me, but then I mainly drive the car "enthusiastically"!
It makes every other performance car seem silly and old-fashioned IMO.
Real life owners reviews of four GT-Rs here: http://www.auto-journals.com/journals/Nissan?model...
Nobody has more experience dealing with GT-Rs.
I'm currently at my highest average mpg of 16.6, but that is mainly because of having to cruise between SPECS cameras on the M25 yesterday!
Normally 15s is more realistic for me, but then I mainly drive the car "enthusiastically"!
It makes every other performance car seem silly and old-fashioned IMO.
Real life owners reviews of four GT-Rs here: http://www.auto-journals.com/journals/Nissan?model...
I got my R35 from Middlehurst, customer service not been super great during the waiting period but then again they have outsold the rest of Europe in GTR sales so huge volumes in comparison to their peers. With their history and Motorsport back ground they are the people i would do business with again also seem reasonably mod friendly if you're looking to go further with the cars performance down the line.
MPG can easily do 26MPG on the motorway in cruise mode.Mine is averaging about 16mpg with a fair bit of "spirited" driving now the optimisation service has been done and the Y-pipe fitted. Under a hard drive that can go down to single figs, which is to be expected from 3.8litre V6 TT! You have to pay to play!
Only done 1600 miles so not worn through anything as of yet. There is talk tyres need changing after 10k, and i read somewhere brakes should last 15-30k depending on driving style obviously. Transmission fluid if it gets above 110 i think needs a change when servicing, think a full fluid change is circ £600.
Reliability wise, well its new so i've had no dramas (touch wood) over on the GTR forum there is a thread about an engine going pop with a Cobb tune on it blasting on the AutoBahn, also this happened with a Nissan press car in germany. Other than that it's like anything if you look after it, it should last, plus if you keep it as the factory made it then good old Nissan should cover you with any issues you may have.
DO IT!!! If you're in the London areas feel free to message me and have a look round mine etc.....
MPG can easily do 26MPG on the motorway in cruise mode.Mine is averaging about 16mpg with a fair bit of "spirited" driving now the optimisation service has been done and the Y-pipe fitted. Under a hard drive that can go down to single figs, which is to be expected from 3.8litre V6 TT! You have to pay to play!
Only done 1600 miles so not worn through anything as of yet. There is talk tyres need changing after 10k, and i read somewhere brakes should last 15-30k depending on driving style obviously. Transmission fluid if it gets above 110 i think needs a change when servicing, think a full fluid change is circ £600.
Reliability wise, well its new so i've had no dramas (touch wood) over on the GTR forum there is a thread about an engine going pop with a Cobb tune on it blasting on the AutoBahn, also this happened with a Nissan press car in germany. Other than that it's like anything if you look after it, it should last, plus if you keep it as the factory made it then good old Nissan should cover you with any issues you may have.
DO IT!!! If you're in the London areas feel free to message me and have a look round mine etc.....
some pretty spot on observations here; http://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&a...
Mine is only used as a weekend toy on the S&S's that I actually get free
, so I can’t really comment on reliability and consumables. It's just got to the end of the 1200 mile run-in period with the optimisation service completed. I’ve been keeping a close eye on the fluid and oil levels, all of which have stayed static. It feels very well put together as most Japanese cars are, but also solid in a BMW kind of way. It’s quite an odd mix, but works very well. As for using as it as every day driver, I don’t really see why not. Whilst the ride is quite hard, it’s not uncomfortable and the seats are superb. Sure it drinks fuel, but given it’s just shy of 500bhp and weighs 1.7 tons, it’s better than you would think. You can think of it as two cars in one, firstly a large 2+2 with an auto mode box , cruise control, great entertainment system and good visibility for those relaxed days, and secondly with a flick of the three switches in the ‘R’ mode you have a supercar.
As for the driving experience, I think Chris Harris from DR sums it up well by saying it defies the laws of physics! The driving experience is completely at odds to what the facts would suggest - I thought the weight would make it feel like an old school muscle car, and the electro-gadgetry would mute most of the feedback. Needless to say, I was very very wrong. Sure it's very fast in a straight line, but it's the way it seems to shed its weight that is most impressive. It's incredibly nimble, adjustable, analogue and best of all fun. All I can say is try one and you will see what I mean! For 55ish K it’s the automotive bargain of a lifetime!
Mine is only used as a weekend toy on the S&S's that I actually get free
, so I can’t really comment on reliability and consumables. It's just got to the end of the 1200 mile run-in period with the optimisation service completed. I’ve been keeping a close eye on the fluid and oil levels, all of which have stayed static. It feels very well put together as most Japanese cars are, but also solid in a BMW kind of way. It’s quite an odd mix, but works very well. As for using as it as every day driver, I don’t really see why not. Whilst the ride is quite hard, it’s not uncomfortable and the seats are superb. Sure it drinks fuel, but given it’s just shy of 500bhp and weighs 1.7 tons, it’s better than you would think. You can think of it as two cars in one, firstly a large 2+2 with an auto mode box , cruise control, great entertainment system and good visibility for those relaxed days, and secondly with a flick of the three switches in the ‘R’ mode you have a supercar.As for the driving experience, I think Chris Harris from DR sums it up well by saying it defies the laws of physics! The driving experience is completely at odds to what the facts would suggest - I thought the weight would make it feel like an old school muscle car, and the electro-gadgetry would mute most of the feedback. Needless to say, I was very very wrong. Sure it's very fast in a straight line, but it's the way it seems to shed its weight that is most impressive. It's incredibly nimble, adjustable, analogue and best of all fun. All I can say is try one and you will see what I mean! For 55ish K it’s the automotive bargain of a lifetime!
Edited by tnw on Wednesday 19th August 23:31
Just sold my R35 after a short period of ownership, it is an incredible car in out and out performance terms BUT....
As a everyday car it has very, very difficult rear / all round visibility (not a problem with 911) and very easy to kerb wheels (many owners on gtr.co.uk who have kerbed wheels and paint code to repair not available). Turning circle of a London taxi. Too wide and too long to be comfortably parked in most spaces etc.
GTR rear seats pretty much useless, even worse than 911 for kids due to backrest angle.
GTR will do well to better 19mpg. Servicing costs are horrendous and every 6k miles. Tyres are scarce and >£500 each and often will need to be fitted in 4's. Set of disks and pads >£3700. By comparison a 997 is ford fiesta budget for servicing.
Gtr Engine note has little appeal, way too quiet and bland.Dash guages are a bit naff in my opinion and would rather see a 200kg lighter car sans cr@p like electric seats and monitors etc.
For me cherry on the cake was voiding warranty if you take on a track (thanks Nissan for gps tracker and black box) or 'use at sustained high speed'. Apparently you can maintain warranty (excluding anything mechanical you damage whilst on track) if you have an inspection either side of track outing and change oils if you go above 110' but that's going to cost £650+....
I ended up selling mine and buying a brand new 430bhp VXR8 for £22k - will spend £15k on a caterham or elise after the summer peak and have a cruiser and an affordable track car. GTR seems to be neither everyday nor track focused nor a particularly good compromise for reasons above.
Bennno
As a everyday car it has very, very difficult rear / all round visibility (not a problem with 911) and very easy to kerb wheels (many owners on gtr.co.uk who have kerbed wheels and paint code to repair not available). Turning circle of a London taxi. Too wide and too long to be comfortably parked in most spaces etc.
GTR rear seats pretty much useless, even worse than 911 for kids due to backrest angle.
GTR will do well to better 19mpg. Servicing costs are horrendous and every 6k miles. Tyres are scarce and >£500 each and often will need to be fitted in 4's. Set of disks and pads >£3700. By comparison a 997 is ford fiesta budget for servicing.
Gtr Engine note has little appeal, way too quiet and bland.Dash guages are a bit naff in my opinion and would rather see a 200kg lighter car sans cr@p like electric seats and monitors etc.
For me cherry on the cake was voiding warranty if you take on a track (thanks Nissan for gps tracker and black box) or 'use at sustained high speed'. Apparently you can maintain warranty (excluding anything mechanical you damage whilst on track) if you have an inspection either side of track outing and change oils if you go above 110' but that's going to cost £650+....
I ended up selling mine and buying a brand new 430bhp VXR8 for £22k - will spend £15k on a caterham or elise after the summer peak and have a cruiser and an affordable track car. GTR seems to be neither everyday nor track focused nor a particularly good compromise for reasons above.
Bennno
Very interesting. I wonder how many people will talk themselves into a GTR on the basis that it costs 'much the same' as an M3 only to find out later how much it costs to run. I've read countless reviews of the GTR and it is undoubtedly an awesome machine, but I wonder what the future holds for residuals. In a few years time when it has lost a chunk of value I wonder who will be able to afford to run it. You're going to be looking at a 3-series purchase price with Lambourghini running costs. Can't think of another car like that.
4600 in mine now, average of 22.6 mpg
Tyres still fine, 1 trackday done, only costs so far apart from fuel is the trackday inspection, done today, 2 hrs labour, not sure of price as picking up in the morning.
The best car ive ever had, just awesome.
(oil needs doing in diff if exceed 140, not 110 as someone posted)
Tyres still fine, 1 trackday done, only costs so far apart from fuel is the trackday inspection, done today, 2 hrs labour, not sure of price as picking up in the morning.
The best car ive ever had, just awesome.
(oil needs doing in diff if exceed 140, not 110 as someone posted)
had mine since they landed and very pleased.
balistic performance is everything it is cracked up to be
it's got some quirks too; for example poor cold /low speed driveability and try getting it to reverse up a reasonable gradient! It is big and wide but sod all space inside.
not going to be cheap to run i suspect, especially if you drive it hard and do track time; however not sure all the costs scaremongering is proven in practice yet. Highest mileage UK cars in the 6-8,000 mile range only. There is always the independent route with some well known names offering service support at better rates than dealers.
made the decision to get the GTR against a new aston, 911 or M beeemer and no regrets at all.
don't buy one because of the purchase price; buy one because it is a great car
balistic performance is everything it is cracked up to be
it's got some quirks too; for example poor cold /low speed driveability and try getting it to reverse up a reasonable gradient! It is big and wide but sod all space inside.
not going to be cheap to run i suspect, especially if you drive it hard and do track time; however not sure all the costs scaremongering is proven in practice yet. Highest mileage UK cars in the 6-8,000 mile range only. There is always the independent route with some well known names offering service support at better rates than dealers.
made the decision to get the GTR against a new aston, 911 or M beeemer and no regrets at all.
don't buy one because of the purchase price; buy one because it is a great car
SonicHedgeHog said:
You're going to be looking at a 3-series purchase price with Lambourghini running costs. Can't think of another car like that.
RS Audi's and M BMWs spring to mind for running costs.The R34 GTR did very, very well on residuals so it will be interesting to see how the GTR gets on, I suspect very well.
bennno said:
GTR will do well to better 19mpg. Servicing costs are horrendous and every 6k miles. Tyres are scarce and >£500 each and often will need to be fitted in 4's. Set of disks and pads >£3700. By comparison a 997 is ford fiesta budget for servicing....
....For me cherry on the cake was voiding warranty if you take on a track (thanks Nissan for gps tracker and black box) or 'use at sustained high speed'. Apparently you can maintain warranty (excluding anything mechanical you damage whilst on track) if you have an inspection either side of track outing and change oils if you go above 110' but that's going to cost £650+....
Do you not think the above costs take it way beyond RS Audis and M cars? I know the RS6 can be a bit of a stinker wrt running costs and no doubt anything with a BMW V10 is going to be quite pricy. But I can't help feeling that 2 grand for a set of tyres which wear out much faster than 'normal' is really going to hurt the people who might be interested in a used one. ....For me cherry on the cake was voiding warranty if you take on a track (thanks Nissan for gps tracker and black box) or 'use at sustained high speed'. Apparently you can maintain warranty (excluding anything mechanical you damage whilst on track) if you have an inspection either side of track outing and change oils if you go above 110' but that's going to cost £650+....
Rather than the car being the problem, it seems to be the restrictions placed on owners by Nissan. Ballpark figures suggest that if you do about 12,000 per year including the odd trip to the track it would be a piece of cake to take your annual running costs into 5 figures. I don't think the old R34 was that bad and neither are the RSs or Ms. Time will tell, I guess.
I suspect if you view the GTR as a half price (to buy) Ferrari alternative for high days and weekends you won't be suprised by £2100 of scheduled service charges per 18k miles,£3700 for a set of disks and pads or £2400 for 4 tyres.
I suspect that there will be some absolute dogs available with voided warranties in 3-4 years time (as many second hamd buyers probably won't be able to keep up proper servicing at those rates.)
Come to think of it have you seen how cheap some colour printers are now compared to the price of the replacement inks?
Bennno
I suspect that there will be some absolute dogs available with voided warranties in 3-4 years time (as many second hamd buyers probably won't be able to keep up proper servicing at those rates.)
Come to think of it have you seen how cheap some colour printers are now compared to the price of the replacement inks?
Bennno
Edited by bennno on Friday 21st August 12:29
bennno said:
I suspect if you view the GTR as a half price (to buy) Ferrari alternative for high days and weekends you won't be suprised by £2100 of scheduled service charges per 18k miles,£3700 for a set of disks and pads or £2400 for 4 tyres.
I suspect that there will be some absolute dogs available with voided warranties in 3-4 years time (as many second hamd buyers probably won't be able to keep up proper servicing at those rates.)
Come to think of it have you seen how cheap some colour printers are now compared to the price of the replacement inks?
Bennno
What sensible person buys their tyres from a main dealer? Camskill sell the GT-R Bridgestones for about £280 each.I suspect that there will be some absolute dogs available with voided warranties in 3-4 years time (as many second hamd buyers probably won't be able to keep up proper servicing at those rates.)
Come to think of it have you seen how cheap some colour printers are now compared to the price of the replacement inks?
Bennno
Likewise there are much better discs and pads available other than the pricey Nissan Brembo items. Middlehurst sell AP non-drilled discs and Pagid pads for far less than OEM prices.
And Gary Finney at Middlehurst takes a far more pragmatic and sensible view of when the trans fluid needs changing. Changing because it has strayed over 110c once is madness; keep an eye on the actual temps, do cooling down laps and tell your service manager accurately how the car has been driven. No way should it end up having fluid changes every 1800 miles.
I'm personally swapping to the much higher quality Willall fluid anyway and will then probably only get it changed once a year.
The car is simply devastatingly quick. I haven't met the car yet on track that can keep up.
bennno said:
I suspect if you view the GTR as a half price (to buy) Ferrari alternative for high days and weekends
That's only if you're buying new.I've contemplated a GTR many times but am concerned about the residuals and IMO a 70k F430 / Gallardo is not that much more money, have done a great deal of depreciating and are seemingly on par with the outrageous maint. required by Nissan on the GTR.
labrit said:
bennno said:
I suspect if you view the GTR as a half price (to buy) Ferrari alternative for high days and weekends
That's only if you're buying new.I've contemplated a GTR many times but am concerned about the residuals and IMO a 70k F430 / Gallardo is not that much more money, have done a great deal of depreciating and are seemingly on par with the outrageous maint. required by Nissan on the GTR.
Don't kid yourself about Ferrari and Lambo running costs. Remember, "there is no such thing as a cheap Ferrari", as I've learned over the course of owning a few!
The GT-R will make any current Ferrari and Lambo look silly on the track, although I am really looking forward to trying the 458...
Got try the GTR for the first time, at Silverstone South Circuit as part of the dummy-run for Nissan's Race Academy.
I had only ever done the GP track before, in a 1.6 CRX so the GTR was quite a shock. After a few laps, the straight line speed became very manageable (even in R-mode) but the most impressive distinction between it and any other car I've driven, was it's stability on the brakes. Combined with being able to brake so hard and STILL turn in, while braking and then getting on the throttle much sooner than expected, was vastly pleasureable.
I enjoy driving the older cars, like my Dad's TR6. The sense that you're physically at one with the car and the other nostalgic feelings that they can deliver, the smells, noises, quirks etc...but to drive them fast, requires more of your concentration on the gear changes, steering and braking and you cannot enjoy the sheer sense of speed and G.
The GTR, allowed me to drive it very hard within only 10 laps of the south circuit. It is a car for the Playstation Generation. I am part of that generation...and if I wasn't a measley mechanic, I'd have one.
(p.s. Andy Middlehurst took part in the dummy-run of Race Academy '09 too. And I won
)
I had only ever done the GP track before, in a 1.6 CRX so the GTR was quite a shock. After a few laps, the straight line speed became very manageable (even in R-mode) but the most impressive distinction between it and any other car I've driven, was it's stability on the brakes. Combined with being able to brake so hard and STILL turn in, while braking and then getting on the throttle much sooner than expected, was vastly pleasureable.
I enjoy driving the older cars, like my Dad's TR6. The sense that you're physically at one with the car and the other nostalgic feelings that they can deliver, the smells, noises, quirks etc...but to drive them fast, requires more of your concentration on the gear changes, steering and braking and you cannot enjoy the sheer sense of speed and G.
The GTR, allowed me to drive it very hard within only 10 laps of the south circuit. It is a car for the Playstation Generation. I am part of that generation...and if I wasn't a measley mechanic, I'd have one.
(p.s. Andy Middlehurst took part in the dummy-run of Race Academy '09 too. And I won
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