Subaru Legacy B4 RSK
Discussion
I originally posted this in GG but didn't get any joy, it wasn't until afterwards that I spotted PH has a Jap section! 
Apologies if these questions have been asked before but I did try searching for other posts.
I'm currently looking at replacements for my ageing Cavalier which I intend to replace next year sometime when funds permit. £4k-5ish is my target, and I intend to keep it for several years so I want to make sure its something I won't get bored with. I've never really considered a Japanese car but something about these really appeal to me.
What are they like to drive? Ultimately I want something fast and fun but also reasonably comfortable and refined on the motorway. I get the impression that a 2.0 turbo may be a bit ‘frantic’ and lacking in the useful low down off-boost grunt of the V6 engine I am used to? Does it need thrashing to give its best?
As for running costs I’ve got an insurance quote already and it’s not much more expensive then my current car. How is it in terms of parts and servicing? Is there a way to tell if a car has been remapped to run on UK grade fuel? Is replacing consumables like brake components going to leave me with a sore bottom?
I’m not afraid of running costs but I’ve no experience of cars like the Subaru and I’ve no idea if I would be lining myself up for a world of pain! biggrin
Thanks in advance
Apologies if these questions have been asked before but I did try searching for other posts. I'm currently looking at replacements for my ageing Cavalier which I intend to replace next year sometime when funds permit. £4k-5ish is my target, and I intend to keep it for several years so I want to make sure its something I won't get bored with. I've never really considered a Japanese car but something about these really appeal to me.
What are they like to drive? Ultimately I want something fast and fun but also reasonably comfortable and refined on the motorway. I get the impression that a 2.0 turbo may be a bit ‘frantic’ and lacking in the useful low down off-boost grunt of the V6 engine I am used to? Does it need thrashing to give its best?
As for running costs I’ve got an insurance quote already and it’s not much more expensive then my current car. How is it in terms of parts and servicing? Is there a way to tell if a car has been remapped to run on UK grade fuel? Is replacing consumables like brake components going to leave me with a sore bottom?
I’m not afraid of running costs but I’ve no experience of cars like the Subaru and I’ve no idea if I would be lining myself up for a world of pain! biggrin
Thanks in advance
IROC-Z said:
What are they like to drive? Ultimately I want something fast and fun but also reasonably comfortable and refined on the motorway. I get the impression that a 2.0 turbo may be a bit ‘frantic’ and lacking in the useful low down off-boost grunt of the V6 engine I am used to? Does it need thrashing to give its best?
Great to drive - heaps of grip and traction as you'd expect, nice balance, well judged damping, though I'd prefer a quicker steering rack. Much more refined and 'grown-up' feeling than an Impreza too.For power delivery each revision got slightly better, much wider/more linear spread than an Impreza with later cars having over 80% of peak torque available from 2000-6500rpm (peak torque at 5000, redline at 7500). While the best performance is still above ~4500rpm (where both turbos work in parallel) there is certainly no lack of low-down grunt.
Some cars (often older/more tired ones) have a quite noticable flat spot around 4000rpm as the secondary turbo spools up, but its not an issue at all with mine (2002) so if you test one that feels bad then its worth trying others, don't just accept a 'TADTS' about it.
I'd always go for a manual as the autobox isn't great, autos also have less power - 260bhp vs 280 for manual.
As far as running costs go, I've had mine a year so far with no problems. Had 3 other Subarus previously and the biggest problem I ever had was an airflow meter let go which isn't a hugely expensive fix. Fuel economy - I generally average around 26-27mpg and can get 30-33 on a run.
Edited by GravelBen on Thursday 19th November 12:18
Edited by GravelBen on Thursday 19th November 12:21
Excellent thanks for the detailed information! I've heard of the flat spot from bits and pieces of info I found through searching on Google. I believe it’s called the 'valley of death'? 
will be sure to look out for that when I come to try one out. I've already decided I want a manual too as I prefer the added driver involvement!
The other thing I heard is that they have to be remapped to run on lower octane fuel? Is there anyway that this can be verified? If someone has been running it on 95 or 98 RON what effect would this have?
As for the age thing I'm only 25 but I like the fact the Legacy is a bit more subtle than the Impreza. They are also quite rare so not many people would know what it was.
will be sure to look out for that when I come to try one out. I've already decided I want a manual too as I prefer the added driver involvement! The other thing I heard is that they have to be remapped to run on lower octane fuel? Is there anyway that this can be verified? If someone has been running it on 95 or 98 RON what effect would this have?
As for the age thing I'm only 25 but I like the fact the Legacy is a bit more subtle than the Impreza. They are also quite rare so not many people would know what it was.
IROC-Z said:
The other thing I heard is that they have to be remapped to run on lower octane fuel? Is there anyway that this can be verified? If someone has been running it on 95 or 98 RON what effect would this have?
HelloNot 100% sure on Legacy's but most import Subarus can be run on 98-99 RON fuel with no problems. Running on 95 RON may cause detonation. I say may as I know some people who only use 95 and haven't had any issues (I alway use SUL BTW). But.... even if it doesn't blow up, it will be dog slow on 95 so use Super Unleaded (V Power and Tescos are both 99 RON)
Have a look at http://www.tbm-int.co.uk/ He specializes in importing Legacys. My brother bought one the other day from him and is very happy.
Mark
Edited by markCSC on Thursday 19th November 16:23
They're fine on 98, 10-12% worse fuel economy on 95 as well as noticably less power. I run mine on 98 whenever possible but 95 is the best you can get in my little town so I often run octane booster with 95 - Wynns is the only stuff I've found to really make a difference. Running on unboosted 95 on a hot day the engine just feels incredibly flat as the ECU pulls back timing, boost etc to prevent det.
Excellent thanks again guys for the help. Presuming some people do run theirs on 95, this might be why I've read that the Legacy is so thirsty.
Anyway, 26-27mpg sounds perfectly acceptable to me!
Mark: I checked out http://www.tbm-int.co.uk/. Some beuatiful cars on their and all around the sort of money I'm aiming to get together. They all seem to be estates though
Anyway, 26-27mpg sounds perfectly acceptable to me!
Mark: I checked out http://www.tbm-int.co.uk/. Some beuatiful cars on their and all around the sort of money I'm aiming to get together. They all seem to be estates though
For those of you that can only get hold of 95RON can you not get hold of any Methanol?
You can buy it in any quantity over here online and there are lots of chenical suppliers around that will take a phone order and deliver to your door. Also Methanol is cheaper than 95RON and more cost effective than octane booster not to mention does a much better job.
A 10% mix will see your Octane go 100RON+. Your fuel maps will be pretty rich anyway so any leaning out of AFR's will only be a good thing and you'll never see a hint of DET regardless of the weather.
Oh yeah i forgot to add....On 10% methanol your ECU will adjust timing advance and turbo boost to the max that's dictated by your maps which means maximum Torque/power the std map can muster with no DET. If you take it a step further and have your ECU mapped for 10% Methanol mix you'll see about a 10%+ increase hike in power over std again.
Ben....Is there nobody doing any mobile remapping in NZ??
You can buy it in any quantity over here online and there are lots of chenical suppliers around that will take a phone order and deliver to your door. Also Methanol is cheaper than 95RON and more cost effective than octane booster not to mention does a much better job.
A 10% mix will see your Octane go 100RON+. Your fuel maps will be pretty rich anyway so any leaning out of AFR's will only be a good thing and you'll never see a hint of DET regardless of the weather.
Oh yeah i forgot to add....On 10% methanol your ECU will adjust timing advance and turbo boost to the max that's dictated by your maps which means maximum Torque/power the std map can muster with no DET. If you take it a step further and have your ECU mapped for 10% Methanol mix you'll see about a 10%+ increase hike in power over std again.
Ben....Is there nobody doing any mobile remapping in NZ??
Not that I know of, its not really the big thing here it appears to be in the UK. for sure people will have cars dyno-tuned for other mods done, but theres no real industry remapping otherwise standard cars. The sequential TT cars are also a lot more complicated when it comes to tinkering, folk wanting to take power much past the 300 mark generally stick with single turbo.
I've heard quite mixed things about using methanol, enough that I'd be doing some pretty serious research before I'd consider using it myself. (Actually thinking about it again that may be some other additive I'm thinking of, will have to look into it.)
I've heard quite mixed things about using methanol, enough that I'd be doing some pretty serious research before I'd consider using it myself. (Actually thinking about it again that may be some other additive I'm thinking of, will have to look into it.)
Edited by GravelBen on Friday 20th November 22:58
IROC-Z said:
Excellent thanks again guys for the help. Presuming some people do run theirs on 95, this might be why I've read that the Legacy is so thirsty.
The older ones tended to be thirstier too, my old 1990 NA Legacy drank more than the GTB! A lot of the reputation also comes from people with no real experience of the cars regurgitating pub drivel to justify their boring repmobiles. 
Basically go as new as you can, every revision got a bit better - mine being 2002 is the last version of the TT before they switched to a single twinscroll turbo for the gen 4 Legacy. For something a bit more special, see if you can track down an STi s401 Legacy
GravelBen said:
IROC-Z said:
Excellent thanks again guys for the help. Presuming some people do run theirs on 95, this might be why I've read that the Legacy is so thirsty.
The older ones tended to be thirstier too, my old 1990 NA Legacy drank more than the GTB! A lot of the reputation also comes from people with no real experience of the cars regurgitating pub drivel to justify their boring repmobiles. Basically go as new as you can, every revision got a bit better - mine being 2002 is the last version of the TT before they switched to a single twinscroll turbo for the gen 4 Legacy. For something a bit more special, see if you can track down an STi s401 Legacy
The cars I've been looking at have been 99/00 models which are generally in my price range. I've only seen one 02 model so far, truth be told that's a bit too expensive for me. Would a 99 model be OK? If the turbo flat spot was particularly pronounced could that spell problems?
Yeah 99/00 are still good cars, vod tends to vary a lot from car to car for some reason as well as between years so if it feels bad just try others to compare, it doesn't mean engine problems just detracts slightly from the driving experience. You can get aftermarket devices to manage the turbo changeover more smoothly as well if everything is perfect about one apart from that.
Edited by GravelBen on Saturday 21st November 00:42
The flat spot is easy to get used to - it can come into play on a B-road drive necessitating a lower gear than you would normally choose, in order to keep the second turbo spinning, but it's no hardship to stir the gears.
My last tankful (1999 BH5, VPower) saw 320 miles or approx 29 mpg, mostly comprising 75 mph motorway work and a conscious effort to keep the turbo boost down. Conversely, I've been known to empty the tank after 150 miles or approx 14 mpg on a "spirited" run. So it very much depends on how you drive, and frankly it's very very difficult to avoid using the fun pedal.
There are no shortage of stories of bottom ends blowing on the EJ20 engine due to UK owners running low-octane fuel, but your budget will buy a fresh import and that's where my money would go, possibly reserving £500 or so for a Bob Rawle remap that will both increase tolerance for 95 RON as well as smooth out the flat spot.
My last tankful (1999 BH5, VPower) saw 320 miles or approx 29 mpg, mostly comprising 75 mph motorway work and a conscious effort to keep the turbo boost down. Conversely, I've been known to empty the tank after 150 miles or approx 14 mpg on a "spirited" run. So it very much depends on how you drive, and frankly it's very very difficult to avoid using the fun pedal.
There are no shortage of stories of bottom ends blowing on the EJ20 engine due to UK owners running low-octane fuel, but your budget will buy a fresh import and that's where my money would go, possibly reserving £500 or so for a Bob Rawle remap that will both increase tolerance for 95 RON as well as smooth out the flat spot.
Thanks again for the info.
As for a fresh import, I've seen several companies that will import a car to order. www.japaneseimportspecialists.co.uk is one such site. However I can't work out if you give them your budget and they find you a car and then bill you for the import services, or whether they'll quote you for a fully inclusive service. Best ask them directly! But you reckon I could get a B4 RSK for £4-5k all in?
As for a fresh import, I've seen several companies that will import a car to order. www.japaneseimportspecialists.co.uk is one such site. However I can't work out if you give them your budget and they find you a car and then bill you for the import services, or whether they'll quote you for a fully inclusive service. Best ask them directly! But you reckon I could get a B4 RSK for £4-5k all in?
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