Dealers come up with a new one

[Vinny09]

So my wife sent her 330i to get serviced today at our local dealer (I won't name them to play by the rules).

Bearing in mind the car is a relatively new approved used one and she has only had it a few months, they rang her to say that her windscreen washers were clogged up and they would have to charge (£70 or so I believe) to repair them.

However, they then went on to say that she must ONLY buy BMW approved windscreen wash (at whatever exorbitant rate it's at) or it would happen again.

Surely this is not just trying it on but actually falls foul of trading standards by making unproven claims with regards to theirs and other windscreen wash products?

Has anyone come across this kind of behaviour before / got any advice?

Staggered at how blatant they are being!

[Quinten]

I take it you've never owned a (modern) VW/Skoda/Audi/Seat then? They use their own windscreen washer too as it is a lot finer than regular windscreen wash.

[Johnboy Mac]

Pure and utter boll0x. If anything I'd be more concerned about the water being used (too hard, excessive lime etc) rather the brand of screen wash. There really is some c0cks working in main dealers.

Edited by Johnboy Mac on Wednesday 22 June 23:39

[roofer]

Their wash is actually better, and doesn't form the gel around the gauze filter in the bottom of the pump like others do (Halfords for example) and seeing as the bottle is a right pig to get to, 70 sovs doesn't seem to bad if it includes a tank full of wash.

[Pickled Piper]

Vinny09 said:

So my wife sent her 330i to get serviced today at our local dealer

This was your mistake. It's a well proven fact that Women are far more likely to get the runaround or ripped off where cars are concerned.

pp

[soda]

Reservoir is buried in the drivers wing, fking pain to get at. Normally the filter at the bottom gets gunged up with residue from the fairy liquid

[TX1]

Hehe as you said its a new one for me also however after the trouble I have had this last winter with the screenwash freezing up I started to use the proper approved one and have to say it is very good and I even put it in my van now.

[4rephill]

Vinny09 said:

So my wife sent her 330i to get serviced today at our local dealer (I won't name them to play by the rules).

Bearing in mind the car is a relatively new approved used one and she has only had it a few months, they rang her to say that her windscreen washers were clogged up and they would have to charge (£70 or so I believe) to repair them.

However, they then went on to say that she must ONLY buy BMW approved windscreen wash (at whatever exorbitant rate it's at) or it would happen again.

Surely this is not just trying it on but actually falls foul of trading standards by making unproven claims with regards to theirs and other windscreen wash products?

Has anyone come across this kind of behaviour before / got any advice?

Staggered at how blatant they are being!

So were the windscreen washers actually blocked?.

If they were, what caused the blockage?.

Which windscreen wash have you been using? (not BMW's I assume).

Can you prove beyond doubt that the screen wash you've been using didn't cause the blockage? (assuming there really was one of course).

What evidence do you have that what they say is: "trying it on", and that they are actually making: "unproven claims with regards to theirs and other windscreen wash products?". Do you have evidence that they have never tested their windscreen wash against other brands?.

What tests (scientific or other), have you personally carried out to support your claim that they simply: "trying it on"?.

Try doing an internet search on the subject, there's plenty of information out there!.

Vinny09 said:

.... they then went on to say that she must ONLY buy BMW approved windscreen wash (at whatever exorbitant rate it's at) or it would happen again.

Genuine BMW screen wash (1 litre)= £3.67 (from here: http://www.cotswoldstore.com/product/Genuine_BMW__... )

Halfords own brand standard screen wash (1 litre)= £2.79 (from here: http://www.halfords.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/... )
or:
Halfords own brand double concentrate screen wash (1 litre)= £4.49 (From here: http://www.halfords.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/... )


It's worth noting that the genuine BMW screen wash: "When undiluted will not freeze in temperatures as low as -50°C".
The Halfords standard screen wash protects down to -6°C when undiluted (information taken from the bottle).
The Halfords double concentrated screen wash: "Prevents freezing to - 23C " when undiluted (strangely they used to claim it was down to -40°C but have had to change that claim!).

So basically it's not so "exorbitant" after all, in fact it's available for 82 pence less than Halfords equivalent and has double the anti-freezing capability!.

[excel monkey]

I got told the same thing when my screenwash filter clogged on my E90. Had the same problem on my E46 before that.

Every other manufacturer makes do with ordinary screenwash, why can't BMW?

I think the hard water in my area may also be to blame.

[Owlwood]

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/BMW-Intensive-Screenwash-Par...

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/BMW-Concentrate-Screenwash-P...

Got mine from Scott Hall Watford, works out a bit cheaper than the link above.

[kentmotorcompany]

I have known a few E90's with this clogged washer bottle problem, but never known an E46.
One of the techies I'm friendly with also told me that they seem to see a lot more E90's with the same problem.

[Mo D]

kentmotorcompany said:

I have known a few E90's with this clogged washer bottle problem, but never known an E46.
One of the techies I'm friendly with also told me that they seem to see a lot more E90's with the same problem.

Yep I had this exact problem last winter. The jet washer pump just froze, I was on my way home on the A47 at night, it was -10 at one stage according to the temp gauge on the car. It is an E90 specific problem. iirc, it's something to do with the design of the E90, making it alot easier for the pumps to get blocked (I'm in no way technical or mechanically minded so I just paraphrased!)

Luckily, it was under AUC warranty and I only had to pay £7 for them to fix it and they filled it up with a new bottle. Was quite happy with that, as I heard it could cost up to (or more than in some cases) £100 to fix at BMW!

[Vinny09]

Thanks for the comments folks, seems to be a mix of opinions.

For those asking about what evidence do I have etc. to disprove their claims I think that's not quite the point. It's a companies responsibility to make sure its product claims are evidentially supported, not the responsibility of buyers to disprove them, so I do think they are being a bit naughty here.

Ho hum.

[mikey3028]

Vinny09 said:

So my wife sent her 330i to get serviced today at our local dealer (I won't name them to play by the rules).

Bearing in mind the car is a relatively new approved used one and she has only had it a few months, they rang her to say that her windscreen washers were clogged up and they would have to charge (£70 or so I believe) to repair them.

However, they then went on to say that she must ONLY buy BMW approved windscreen wash (at whatever exorbitant rate it's at) or it would happen again.

Surely this is not just trying it on but actually falls foul of trading standards by making unproven claims with regards to theirs and other windscreen wash products?

Has anyone come across this kind of behaviour before / got any advice?

Staggered at how blatant they are being!

I've had something like this said to me. But at my local specialist. I spotted screen wash on a service invoice for... get this.... £1.99. I asked why as it was full already. I mean brimmed. I was told it stops the washer getting clogged. The first time in 18 years of driving someone has told me I need to use manufacturers screen wash!

I couldnt be arsed to argue £1.99.

[mikey3028]

Johnboy Mac said:

Pure and utter boll0x. If anything I'd be more concerned about the water being used (too hard, excessive lime etc) rather the brand of screen wash. There really is some c0cks working in main dealers.

Edited by Johnboy Mac on Wednesday 22 June 23:39

Exactly right.

[4rephill]

Vinny09 said:

Thanks for the comments folks, seems to be a mix of opinions.

For those asking about what evidence do I have etc. to disprove their claims I think that's not quite the point. It's a companies responsibility to make sure its product claims are evidentially supported, not the responsibility of buyers to disprove them, so I do think they are being a bit naughty here.

Ho hum.

But have you asked about their supporting evidence or simply made your mind up that it's a con and that they should be reported to trading standards?.

The first thing trading standards are going to ask is what evidence do you have that their claims are false?, "I don't have any evidence, I just know it's a con!", is not really going to get you anywhere.


It's a similar thing with long life coolant/anti freeze for engines.

years ago it was all blue, you simply added water as necessary and they were all much of a muchness so you could mix brands with no issues.
Now, there are several different types, all in different colours and you cannot mix them or they will congeal and clog up the waterways, and yet plenty of people will say:

" Utter bks, anti freeze is anti freeze!".



At the end of the day, something caused your washers to clog up!.

[Johnboy Mac]

4rephill said:

plenty of people will say:

" Utter bks, anti freeze is anti freeze!".

Since your quoting me and we're not discussing anti-freeze (correctly called engine coolant by the way) which has three specific purposes that are far more crucial to the operation of a vehicle than screenwash, you should refrain comparing apples with oranges! But if you wish to discuss engine coolant please go ahead and start a new thread.

Edited by Johnboy Mac on Thursday 23 June 21:34

[miniman]

I fit a simple accessory to all my cars, always have done. Its a pin. A sewing type pin. I stick one in the headlining just above the drivers door. When the washers get blocked up, I jab the pin into the jets to clean them out. Sadly I think you've just paid £70 for someone at BMW to do it for you.

[roofer]

miniman said:

I fit a simple accessory to all my cars, always have done. Its a pin. A sewing type pin. I stick one in the headlining just above the drivers door. When the washers get blocked up, I jab the pin into the jets to clean them out. Sadly I think you've just paid £70 for someone at BMW to do it for you.

Its not the jets that get blocked, there is a gauze filter on the intake of the washer pump where its connected to the washer bottle. Cheap screenwash forms a gel (snot like) that drops to the bottom of the screen wash bottle and clogs this gauze filter, hence the pump cannot pull water through. The only way to clear this is to pull the pump off and clean the filter. I have never had this gel form using BMW wash, but have had it from other brands, with the same water type.;) I have tried dispersing this gel by many means, having some success with a dishwasher tablet dissolved in boiling water, but not 100% cleared. So, out comes the arch liner, and off comes the bottle, thats why i think the original £70 charged to do this was fair, and the recommendation to use decent fluid is a good one. As for E90 series cars losing their headlight washer jet caps when they freeze, thats another story, and no brand of screen wash will stop that !

[4rephill]

Johnboy Mac said:

Since your quoting me and we're not discussing anti-freeze (correctly called engine coolant by the way) which has three specific purposes that are far more crucial to the operation of a vehicle than screenwash, you should refrain comparing apples with oranges! But if you wish to discuss engine coolant please go ahead and start a new thread.

Edited by Johnboy Mac on Thursday 23 June 21:34

A new thread is not required as the link is that there are plenty of people who still cannot accept that mixing different types of summer coolant/anti freeze/engine coolant/call it what you like, can result in the mixture congealing and causing blockages, based on their own personal belief that "anti freeze is anti freeze, it's all the same stuff!", (for the pedantic, feel free to replace the term "anti freeze" for "engine coolant" or whatever your favoured term might be, I'm sure the average motorist will understand what you mean).

This is the same theory being used by some in this very thread about Screenwash, "It's all hogwash, all screenwashes are the same, mixing them cannot cause any blockages!". This statement is being made as if it is a guaranteed fact, when none of the people making the statement have proved it to be so. It's not a proven fact, it's a personal belief!, just because it's never happened to you doesn't mean it never happens.

In the OP's case, they have pretty much accused BMW of acting illegally and to be operating some sort of scam, but offer no proof whatsoever that what BMW say is incorrect and have not even asked BMW to verify their claim!.

All BMW have said is that the windscreen washer system was blocked (surely the OP would have known if this was true?), that it will cost@£70 to fix (which is about half an hours labour+parts+VAT) and that they suggest using only genuine BMW screenwash as cheaper brands can result in clogging of the system (and the OP hasn't said if they were using BMW's screenwash or an alternative brand).

Part of the "scam", according to the OP, is to get you to buy the BMW screenwash at an "exorbitant" price. The problem here being is that Myself and others have shown that the price of genuine BMW screenwash is actually very competitively priced when compared to a commonly bought alternative.

At the end of the day, if you're going to make accusations of illegal activities, at least back it up with some evidence, not just personal beliefs.

As I've already said, something caused the washer system on the OP's car to become blocked and I don't believe it was the water!. (Funnily enough, My washers have never been blocked, but there again I use that cheap, genuine BMW screenwash as opposed to the other brands! ).