Discussion: My thought for the future of Alpina!
Discussion
I was thinking about this on the train.
BMW have basically moved themselves ever so gradually into the space that Alpins used to occupy.
The next generation of 'M Cars' will festure forced induction and essentially driver overridable automatic transmissions.
so what ought Alpina do?
Create the "B3.5x":
equivalent to the 335iX with alpina suspension tuning and refinement. with the added 'security' of 4 wd. this would give bmw the ability to cover the entire market and, via buchloe, satisfy the people who want an alround car but want something that's actually fun rather than fast (yes i am refering to quattro gmbh...).
bmw even know that people in europe want 4wd so much so that they're had to invent s
te like the x1. they can't face having to back track on all the 50:50 stuff but this gives them a get - out.
BMW have basically moved themselves ever so gradually into the space that Alpins used to occupy.
The next generation of 'M Cars' will festure forced induction and essentially driver overridable automatic transmissions.
so what ought Alpina do?
Create the "B3.5x":
equivalent to the 335iX with alpina suspension tuning and refinement. with the added 'security' of 4 wd. this would give bmw the ability to cover the entire market and, via buchloe, satisfy the people who want an alround car but want something that's actually fun rather than fast (yes i am refering to quattro gmbh...).
bmw even know that people in europe want 4wd so much so that they're had to invent s
te like the x1. they can't face having to back track on all the 50:50 stuff but this gives them a get - out.They already have. The Alpina B3 S is the car you describe. AWD versions are left hand drive only, though, for the same packaging reasons as the BMW equivalent. Though BMW is moving the M cars towards Alpina territory with forced induction, they're still different. The Alpinas have a different look and feel and use proper automatic transmissions and not DCT (dual clutch) like the latest M3 & M5 or the older auto shift manual transmissions. Only the X5 & X6 M models use a conventional auto - ZF 6HP. Alpinas to me seem more akin to the Jaguar R models in character and approach.
briSk said:
Create the "B3.5x":
equivalent to the 335iX with alpina suspension tuning and refinement. with the added 'security' of 4 wd. this would give bmw the ability to cover the entire market and, via buchloe, satisfy the people who want an alround car but want something that's actually fun rather than fast (yes i am refering to quattro gmbh...).
bmw even know that people in europe want 4wd so much so that they're had to invent ste like the x1. they can't face having to back track on all the 50:50 stuff but this gives them a get - out.
I read somewhere a four wheel drive M5 is on the cards so BMW will have this looked after too.....principally because there are vasts swathes of the US where 4wd is a must. equivalent to the 335iX with alpina suspension tuning and refinement. with the added 'security' of 4 wd. this would give bmw the ability to cover the entire market and, via buchloe, satisfy the people who want an alround car but want something that's actually fun rather than fast (yes i am refering to quattro gmbh...).
bmw even know that people in europe want 4wd so much so that they're had to invent s
te like the x1. they can't face having to back track on all the 50:50 stuff but this gives them a get - out.briSk said:
I was thinking about this on the train.
BMW have basically moved themselves ever so gradually into the space that Alpins used to occupy.
The next generation of 'M Cars' will festure forced induction and essentially driver overridable automatic transmissions.
so what ought Alpina do?
Create the "B3.5x":
equivalent to the 335iX with alpina suspension tuning and refinement. with the added 'security' of 4 wd. this would give bmw the ability to cover the entire market and, via buchloe, satisfy the people who want an alround car but want something that's actually fun rather than fast (yes i am refering to quattro gmbh...).
bmw even know that people in europe want 4wd so much so that they're had to invent ste like the x1. they can't face having to back track on all the 50:50 stuff but this gives them a get - out.
But BMW sell more 4x4's than any other European car maker. Just BMW UK have not brought them over here since the 80's. BMW have basically moved themselves ever so gradually into the space that Alpins used to occupy.
The next generation of 'M Cars' will festure forced induction and essentially driver overridable automatic transmissions.
so what ought Alpina do?
Create the "B3.5x":
equivalent to the 335iX with alpina suspension tuning and refinement. with the added 'security' of 4 wd. this would give bmw the ability to cover the entire market and, via buchloe, satisfy the people who want an alround car but want something that's actually fun rather than fast (yes i am refering to quattro gmbh...).
bmw even know that people in europe want 4wd so much so that they're had to invent s
te like the x1. they can't face having to back track on all the 50:50 stuff but this gives them a get - out.So it is hardly a gap for BMW, they are leading the market and have done for the last 30 years when it comes to all wheel drive sales.
Also, I was lent an X1 last week by someone who has one as his company car (BMW sales guy) as he was raving about it, and I was smitten, so much so I had bought one by the end of the week. It is a much nicer can than my E91's that I have had, and is only really let down by the more 1 series interior that it has, if it was built to higher standards interior wise and called a 3 series allroad I bet it would outsell the 3 series touring, X3 and 5 series touring put together.
It already outsells all of them individually btw. and is the best selling premium SUV made, knocking the Audi Q5 off the top spot, although there is not a great deal of love for it from BMW die hards who don't like change, there are plenty of people out there that do love it.
Alpina is more about paying for comfort and exclusivity anyway, to justify the prices they obviously offer higher power upgrades, but I don't think much has changed. The M5 and the new B5 will look the same on paper, but they will be so far removed from each other when you drive them that they are still appealing to different customers.
I would have always taken the M5 over the B5, but I am now getting closer and closer to 40 and a nice B5s Touring I would have, an E61 touring I wouldn't even want if it were given to me.
The new M5 vs B5 might close that gap, but I bet the B5 would feel special for longer and keep your interest for longer, if not feel quite so special initially.
gizlaroc said:
But BMW sell more 4x4's than any other European car maker. Just BMW UK have not brought them over here since the 80's.
So it is hardly a gap for BMW, they are leading the market and have done for the last 30 years when it comes to all wheel drive sales.
Also, I was lent an X1 last week by someone who has one as his company car (BMW sales guy) as he was raving about it, and I was smitten, so much so I had bought one by the end of the week. It is a much nicer can than my E91's that I have had, and is only really let down by the more 1 series interior that it has, if it was built to higher standards interior wise and called a 3 series allroad I bet it would outsell the 3 series touring, X3 and 5 series touring put together.
It already outsells all of them individually btw. and is the best selling premium SUV made, knocking the Audi Q5 off the top spot, although there is not a great deal of love for it from BMW die hards who don't like change, there are plenty of people out there that do love it.
Alpina is more about paying for comfort and exclusivity anyway, to justify the prices they obviously offer higher power upgrades, but I don't think much has changed. The M5 and the new B5 will look the same on paper, but they will be so far removed from each other when you drive them that they are still appealing to different customers.
I would have always taken the M5 over the B5, but I am now getting closer and closer to 40 and a nice B5s Touring I would have, an E61 touring I wouldn't even want if it were given to me.
The new M5 vs B5 might close that gap, but I bet the B5 would feel special for longer and keep your interest for longer, if not feel quite so special initially.
What engine and spec did you go for?So it is hardly a gap for BMW, they are leading the market and have done for the last 30 years when it comes to all wheel drive sales.
Also, I was lent an X1 last week by someone who has one as his company car (BMW sales guy) as he was raving about it, and I was smitten, so much so I had bought one by the end of the week. It is a much nicer can than my E91's that I have had, and is only really let down by the more 1 series interior that it has, if it was built to higher standards interior wise and called a 3 series allroad I bet it would outsell the 3 series touring, X3 and 5 series touring put together.
It already outsells all of them individually btw. and is the best selling premium SUV made, knocking the Audi Q5 off the top spot, although there is not a great deal of love for it from BMW die hards who don't like change, there are plenty of people out there that do love it.
Alpina is more about paying for comfort and exclusivity anyway, to justify the prices they obviously offer higher power upgrades, but I don't think much has changed. The M5 and the new B5 will look the same on paper, but they will be so far removed from each other when you drive them that they are still appealing to different customers.
I would have always taken the M5 over the B5, but I am now getting closer and closer to 40 and a nice B5s Touring I would have, an E61 touring I wouldn't even want if it were given to me.
The new M5 vs B5 might close that gap, but I bet the B5 would feel special for longer and keep your interest for longer, if not feel quite so special initially.
My mother likes the look of the X1 and wants out of her Merc E class for something 4x4 !
gizlaroc said:
But BMW sell more 4x4's than any other European car maker. Just BMW UK have not brought them over here since the 80's.
So it is hardly a gap for BMW, they are leading the market and have done for the last 30 years when it comes to all wheel drive sales.
Is that true is you exclude SUV's ? In fairness to the OP he was talking about the likes of the 3 series and 5 series...I can't believe BMW sells more 4wd 3 and 5 series than Audi sells A4 and A6's ? But yes point taken BMW do already do it. So it is hardly a gap for BMW, they are leading the market and have done for the last 30 years when it comes to all wheel drive sales.
They sell the x range of 3 and 5 series cars by the bucket load in Europe, especially the Scandinavian and Alpine regions.
Obviously the X5 and X3 helps, but Audi has the Q5 and Q7 too, and Mercedes has the GLK Class, M Class and the GL Class as well, so thing it is a fair comparison.
I think because we don't have them here we don't realise how many BMW sell.
Obviously the X5 and X3 helps, but Audi has the Q5 and Q7 too, and Mercedes has the GLK Class, M Class and the GL Class as well, so thing it is a fair comparison.
I think because we don't have them here we don't realise how many BMW sell.
robsti said:
What engine and spec did you go for?
My mother likes the look of the X1 and wants out of her Merc E class for something 4x4 !
I went for the 18d sDrive, so RWD, oh and manual, which will be my first manual BMW since my 318ti. My mother likes the look of the X1 and wants out of her Merc E class for something 4x4 !
It is a second car that will sit in the garage most of the time, that car did 2500 miles last year.
However, I am already thinking 'maybe I should have bought a 23d xDrive with all the toys and sold the E320cdi' but if I really like it I may just get an E500 or something and enjoy the 50mpg of the 18d sDrive manual.
Something I should mention, the sales figures were for 2007, and I know that Audi outsold BMW in germany for the first time ever with the A4 vs 3 series in 2009, however, by 2010 this was back to BMW in top spot, so maybe the 4x4 sales are no longer in BMWs favour, but it does make you realise that entering the 4WD market for BMW is not exactly needed.
gizlaroc said:
robsti said:
What engine and spec did you go for?
My mother likes the look of the X1 and wants out of her Merc E class for something 4x4 !
I went for the 18d sDrive, so RWD, oh and manual, which will be my first manual BMW since my 318ti. My mother likes the look of the X1 and wants out of her Merc E class for something 4x4 !
It is a second car that will sit in the garage most of the time, that car did 2500 miles last year.
However, I am already thinking 'maybe I should have bought a 23d xDrive with all the toys and sold the E320cdi' but if I really like it I may just get an E500 or something and enjoy the 50mpg of the 18d sDrive manual.
Did you go for leather?
Yeah went for leather, that was the only essential option, oh and the fact it had to be black or deep sea blue with the X-Line package, I love it in those dark colours but hate it in the lighter colours.
I am getting it next week. Wasn't even considering one on Thursday, by Friday lunch had done a deal on it and could collect tomorrow, but looks like it will be another 28ºc day so going to the beach instead and they can deliver it on Friday. haha
I am getting it next week. Wasn't even considering one on Thursday, by Friday lunch had done a deal on it and could collect tomorrow, but looks like it will be another 28ºc day so going to the beach instead and they can deliver it on Friday. haha
gizlaroc said:
Yeah went for leather, that was the only essential option, oh and the fact it had to be black or deep sea blue with the X-Line package, I love it in those dark colours but hate it in the lighter colours.
I am getting it next week. Wasn't even considering one on Thursday, by Friday lunch had done a deal on it and could collect tomorrow, but looks like it will be another 28ºc day so going to the beach instead and they can deliver it on Friday. haha
...i slightly regret the use of the word 'sI am getting it next week. Wasn't even considering one on Thursday, by Friday lunch had done a deal on it and could collect tomorrow, but looks like it will be another 28ºc day so going to the beach instead and they can deliver it on Friday. haha
te'..but..well.. if it were available wouldn't you have prefered a 3er..?__
i have learnt something here - i had no idea the b3 was available as a 4wd. so great minds and all that!
briSk said:
...i slightly regret the use of the word 'ste'..but..well.. if it were available wouldn't you have prefered a 3er..?
No, had two E91's now, the 320d m-sport which was my wifes and I had the 335i M-Sport. te'..but..well.. if it were available wouldn't you have prefered a 3er..?Great cars but things have moved on, the X1 seems to handle around 95% as well and is 50% more comfy.
It actually feels very similar to the Alpina D3 touring, that was my first impression. I am sure alot of that is the 225/50/17 non run flat tyres that are fitted to it.
If someone offered me a 320d M-Sport for my X1 there is no way I would swap, I much prefer the X1 now, if I had already had 2 X1s though I would probably prefer a 3er touring.
They are actually very similar cars, the X1 is far more like the E91 than it is the 1 series.
Yeah it is on the 3 series chassis, they just call it an X1 as they already have the X3 which is bigger.
I would say the boot is around the same size as the E91, certainly no bigger, although you can put the rear seats more upright and give yourself an extra couple of inches.
With the baby buggies etc. a 5 series is needed imho, we have a dog too, so went with an E Class estate that makes the 5 series seem tiny, had a 535d sport touring before the E Class. They just gobble space these babies!
I would say the boot is around the same size as the E91, certainly no bigger, although you can put the rear seats more upright and give yourself an extra couple of inches.
With the baby buggies etc. a 5 series is needed imho, we have a dog too, so went with an E Class estate that makes the 5 series seem tiny, had a 535d sport touring before the E Class. They just gobble space these babies!
Jedimindtrix said:
roofer said:
I was at Goodwood today studying Alpinas current offerings. Dire. The leather quality is crap, Its a BMW with a sorted engine, and a poor re design of the cotton reels, the new M5 was there and it makes the Alpina B5 look mediocre...
Did you drive the B5 and m5?? The gap between the 1st 5 series alternatives was greater IMO - the NA E28 M5 & the blown E28 Alpina B7. The Alpina was a better car to be in, more drama.
Jedimindtrix said:
Did you drive the B5 and m5??
Nope, this was the last Alpina i drove;http://www.pistonheads.com/sales/2492602.htm
I am (was?) an Alpina fan, but the trim finish in the M5 in comparison to the B5 was another level. I know the bit about different types of drive etc etc.
Gassing Station | BMW General | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff