Just discovered BMW dealer sold me car with wrong wheel
Discussion
What would you do?
Last March brought a 325D M Sport from a main BMW dealer - the car was BMW used car checked and had it first MOT before we picked it up and everything was fine.
However took the car to get new tyres fitted and discovered that the wheel fitted to the front driver's side was infact a rear wheel, not a front wheel plus also it had a front wheel size tyre fitted to it - so wrong tyre for wheel size and the alloy was cracked.
Apart from the fact that my insurance would have been invalid had I had a crash with this tyre fitted, does anyone what this might have done to the car driving around with a wrong size wheel and also what should I expect the dealer to do, to make good this mistake
Last March brought a 325D M Sport from a main BMW dealer - the car was BMW used car checked and had it first MOT before we picked it up and everything was fine.
However took the car to get new tyres fitted and discovered that the wheel fitted to the front driver's side was infact a rear wheel, not a front wheel plus also it had a front wheel size tyre fitted to it - so wrong tyre for wheel size and the alloy was cracked.
Apart from the fact that my insurance would have been invalid had I had a crash with this tyre fitted, does anyone what this might have done to the car driving around with a wrong size wheel and also what should I expect the dealer to do, to make good this mistake
Can't see how you can prove the car was supplied with this wheel when you bought it over 9 months ago though, so by all means have a go at the dealer, but be prepared to be ignored.
They may even point to the first MOT saying everything was fine, and therefore the change must have happened during your ownership.
Not saying it is right, but just trying to make you understand the likely outcome of any complaint after 9 months.
They may even point to the first MOT saying everything was fine, and therefore the change must have happened during your ownership.
Not saying it is right, but just trying to make you understand the likely outcome of any complaint after 9 months.
mmm-five said:
Can't see how you can prove the car was supplied with this wheel when you bought it over 9 months ago though, so by all means have a go at the dealer, but be prepared to be ignored.
They may even point to the first MOT saying everything was fine, and therefore the change must have happened during your ownership.
Not saying it is right, but just trying to make you understand the likely outcome of any complaint after 9 months.
I know what you are saying, but the tyre place which is also used by our main BMW dealer is more than happy to say that it is clear that this wheel has not been touched recently and the wear on the tyre is exactly in line with the amount of mileage we have done since it was brought. Anyway why on earth would we chose to do this ourselves, can't see what would be the point?They may even point to the first MOT saying everything was fine, and therefore the change must have happened during your ownership.
Not saying it is right, but just trying to make you understand the likely outcome of any complaint after 9 months.
OP may have more luck than he might think. Similar thing happened to me with a Boxster (great car, don't knock it 'til you've tried it!) about ten months after I bought it from a Porsche dealer in Glasgee. Anyway, I had to quickly take it into Porsche Swindon (Dick Lovett as was, good reputation) and they gave it a quick once over anyway and noticed that one of the rears was an incorrect rating, N1 vs N2 or something like that, and asked me if I'd changed it recently. I hadn't and told them so and they got onto Glasgow and basically told them the score i.e. they'd sold me a car with the wrong tyre. Bit of toing and froing to make sure I wasn't pulling a fast one and I left 30 mins later with a brand new correctly rated tyre on the rear. Pretty chuffed to be honest, I just hope the OP has a similar run of luck!
Drek said:
OP may have more luck than he might think. Similar thing happened to me with a Boxster (great car, don't knock it 'til you've tried it!) about ten months after I bought it from a Porsche dealer in Glasgee. Anyway, I had to quickly take it into Porsche Swindon (Dick Lovett as was, good reputation) and they gave it a quick once over anyway and noticed that one of the rears was an incorrect rating, N1 vs N2 or something like that, and asked me if I'd changed it recently. I hadn't and told them so and they got onto Glasgow and basically told them the score i.e. they'd sold me a car with the wrong tyre. Bit of toing and froing to make sure I wasn't pulling a fast one and I left 30 mins later with a brand new correctly rated tyre on the rear. Pretty chuffed to be honest, I just hope the OP has a similar run of luck!
i love the immediate bracketed 'in my defense' line that all new Boxster drivers seem to use!! they're great cars, be proud of it not embarrassed! It's most likely this has arisen from tyre fitters not paying attention... have you checked every other rim on the car to make sure your missing front rim isn't sat on the back axle with a wider tyre on it?
Also if the car has a spare check that (I'm guessing not if its an E9x)
Obviously if an alloy is incorrect or cracked as you've said then BMW should be replacing it
Also if the car has a spare check that (I'm guessing not if its an E9x)
Obviously if an alloy is incorrect or cracked as you've said then BMW should be replacing it
Blue Cat said:
I know what you are saying, but the tyre place which is also used by our main BMW dealer is more than happy to say that it is clear that this wheel has not been touched recently and the wear on the tyre is exactly in line with the amount of mileage we have done since it was brought. Anyway why on earth would we chose to do this ourselves, can't see what would be the point?
The standard widths for these wheels is 8 inch on the front and 8.5 inch on the rear so although a front tyre fitted to a rear rim will have a slight stretch, it's not that big a deal to be honest.As for the insurance, it would only be invalidated if the insurance company could prove that the stretched tyre was a major contributory factor in any accident (which is highly doubtful that it would be), and that you were aware at the time of the accident of the rim/wheel mix up and still drove on it.
(And lets face facts here, you've been driving around on the wheel/tyre for the last 9 months with no accidents so it can't have been that dangerous can it?)
As for the Dealership, that comes down to your word against theirs. You would need to prove that that is how they supplied the car to you (and your tyre fitters opinion cannot be counted on as conclusive proof of this. How does he know that someone didn't swap the tyres over for some reason two weeks after you bought the car? All he knows is that it looks like the tyres have been on the rims for a similar amount of time. He can't prove anything).
griffter said:
Cemesis said:
Why would your insurance have been invalid?
Presumably because of the undeclared 'modification' - let alone the fact it probably wasn't roadworthy with different wheel/tyre combo on the same axle.The spare in this situation is usually a front wheel and tyre combination, so based on what you're saying, your car would be unroadworthy if you fitted the spare to the rear axle. That can't be right, otherwise you would have to carry two spare wheels, a front and a rear!
4rephill said:
How does this theory work with a full size spare on a staggered set up then?
The spare in this situation is usually a front wheel and tyre combination, so based on what you're saying, your car would be unroadworthy if you fitted the spare to the rear axle. That can't be right, otherwise you would have to carry two spare wheels, a front and a rear!
Do cars with staggered wheels come with a spare anymore? Most seem to come with run flats or tyre foam. If a spare is just a front wheel, is the offset the same as the rears in case it needs to go on the rear axle? Was the offset of the OP's rear the same as the wheel that should have been fitted on the front? Any risk of it fouling suspension components or worse brake lines? Any axle difference in geo or tyre characteristics (due to stretch) would alter the driving characteristics, especially under braking. This is why space savers generally come with a 50mph rating. I don't know about full-sized spares for a staggered set-up but I would imagine the same recommendation may be buried in the owner's manual.The spare in this situation is usually a front wheel and tyre combination, so based on what you're saying, your car would be unroadworthy if you fitted the spare to the rear axle. That can't be right, otherwise you would have to carry two spare wheels, a front and a rear!
I think all that points to potentital unroadworthiness - which is why insurance companies require notification. Sadly I'm not so confident that the driver being unaware is enough to absolve liability. After all if unaware the driver is unable to pro-actively compensate (however that might be necessary).
I do hope the OP gets this sorted. I would have thought given the potetial liability / saftey implications the selling dealer should give him the benefit of the doubt. Good luck.
It's getting to the point where is a main agent really worth the excessive premium?
Just got my car back from a service, the handbrake had not been adjusted, the tailgate was broken and missing some trim. They ordered the wrong parts. (all the boxes were ticked though!) Taking a walk through Sytner's service bay the guys look and acted the same as the monkeys you would find in a KwikFit depot.
Oh yes, and the courtesy car they lent me had a puncture and they wanted £300 for 4 miles use!
And I am having issues with the Sytner BMW parts department who ordered me the wrong parts for a BMW I am restoring and now won't let me return them. They don't fit - I don't care what the computer says!
Just got my car back from a service, the handbrake had not been adjusted, the tailgate was broken and missing some trim. They ordered the wrong parts. (all the boxes were ticked though!) Taking a walk through Sytner's service bay the guys look and acted the same as the monkeys you would find in a KwikFit depot.
Oh yes, and the courtesy car they lent me had a puncture and they wanted £300 for 4 miles use!
And I am having issues with the Sytner BMW parts department who ordered me the wrong parts for a BMW I am restoring and now won't let me return them. They don't fit - I don't care what the computer says!
griffter said:
Do cars with staggered wheels come with a spare anymore? Most seem to come with run flats or tyre foam. If a spare is just a front wheel, is the offset the same as the rears in case it needs to go on the rear axle?
griffter said:
I don't know about full-sized spares for a staggered set-up but I would imagine the same recommendation may be buried in the owner's manual.
You've slightly missed the point I was making by the looks of it.you stated that if you have a different size wheel/tyre combo on the same axle then the car would be unroadworthy.
I'm saying that this statement is not true as BMW in their wisdom supplied the old E36 328i sports and M3's with a full size spare that was a front tyre. There were no stipulations in the owners manual that this tyre could not be fitted to the rear axle or that to do so would be dangerous.
Whilst the offset was the same front and rear (ET 41), the wheel and tyre sizes were most definitely different (Front: 225/45/17 tyre on a 7.5 wide rim; Rear:245/40/17 tyre on an 8.5 wide rim).
griffter said:
Was the offset of the OP's rear the same as the wheel that should have been fitted on the front? Any risk of it fouling suspension components or worse brake lines? Any axle difference in geo or tyre characteristics (due to stretch) would alter the driving characteristics, especially under braking. This is why space savers generally come with a 50mph rating.
On the OP's car the wheel sizes are:
Front wheel: 8x18 ET 34
Rear wheel: 8.5x18 ET 37
I seriously doubt that a 3mm difference in offset is going to cause any fouling issue whatsoever.
Surely the main reason for the 50 mph limit on a space saver is due to the fact that they are so thin you could end up pulling the tyre off the rim by driving any faster?
griffter said:
I think all that points to potentital unroadworthiness - which is why insurance companies require notification. Sadly I'm not so confident that the driver being unaware is enough to absolve liability. After all if unaware the driver is unable to pro-actively compensate (however that might be necessary).
I do hope the OP gets this sorted. I would have thought given the potetial liability / saftey implications the selling dealer should give him the benefit of the doubt. Good luck.
I doubt he will. I do hope the OP gets this sorted. I would have thought given the potetial liability / saftey implications the selling dealer should give him the benefit of the doubt. Good luck.
In the OP's case, The rear wheel width as I've already said is 8.5 inches wide. The tyre fitted to this rim was a 225/40/18.
Looking at a number of tyre sites on the net, it seems that fitting a 225 tyre to an 8.5 rim is within specification (see here for example: http://www.bavarian-board.co.uk/forum_posts.asp?TI... , the wheel width range for a 225/40/18 tyre is 7~9inches, so an 8.5 inch wheel width is perfectly acceptable).
As for any possible road worthiness issues, surely if the car was as unroadworthy as you suggest during the previous 9 months then the Op would have noticed it whilst driving?
And how come the OP didn't notice the fact that one of the front tyres was a different shape on the rim due to being slightly stretched when compared to the other during his regular tyre pressure checks?
Anyway, as the tyre size is an acceptable fit for the rear rim, I don't think the OP has a case for any compensation as at no time was the car made unroadworthy with that tyre/wheel combination.
I think we're at risk of going OT here. I said it probably wasn't roadworthy. It was just a speculative opinion, not an exhaustively researched statement of fact.
He had a rear wheel fitted to the front, which wasn't ever intended. Fitting a front to the rear as a spare so-designed is one thing. Fitting a rear to the front is another.
Your detailed exeplanation supports your opinion that the car was roadworthy. I agree your calcluations suggest there was clearance (although I make it 9mm inboard - +3mm ET plus half of half an inch), but I wouldn't want to drive on it. Nor does the OP by the sounds of it.
Anyway it doesn't matter - the wheel was cracked so it wasn't roadworthy (and therefore may have been uninsured) for that reason alone!
He had a rear wheel fitted to the front, which wasn't ever intended. Fitting a front to the rear as a spare so-designed is one thing. Fitting a rear to the front is another.
Your detailed exeplanation supports your opinion that the car was roadworthy. I agree your calcluations suggest there was clearance (although I make it 9mm inboard - +3mm ET plus half of half an inch), but I wouldn't want to drive on it. Nor does the OP by the sounds of it.
Anyway it doesn't matter - the wheel was cracked so it wasn't roadworthy (and therefore may have been uninsured) for that reason alone!
Edited by griffter on Friday 3rd February 08:04
Thanks for everyone's replies.
Just to answer the queries, the tyres are run-flats so there is no spare tyre and checked all the other wheels; it was fitted with three rear and one front wheel. However good news the dealer has replaced the wheel free of charge and car is going in next week to a different BMW dealer for a “health check”
And to the poster who asked why I didn’t notice when checking tyres, I wouldn’t know what I was looking for, you expect the tyre/wheel to be correct however I did notice it had unusual wear hence the reason for getting the tyre changed. What annoys me is that you pay extra money when buying a car from a main dealer to not have these problems and also how was it missed when the dealer got it MOT before we brought it – the dealer can’t answer these questions as they have told me that the service manager who dealt with this car has left the company.
Just to answer the queries, the tyres are run-flats so there is no spare tyre and checked all the other wheels; it was fitted with three rear and one front wheel. However good news the dealer has replaced the wheel free of charge and car is going in next week to a different BMW dealer for a “health check”
And to the poster who asked why I didn’t notice when checking tyres, I wouldn’t know what I was looking for, you expect the tyre/wheel to be correct however I did notice it had unusual wear hence the reason for getting the tyre changed. What annoys me is that you pay extra money when buying a car from a main dealer to not have these problems and also how was it missed when the dealer got it MOT before we brought it – the dealer can’t answer these questions as they have told me that the service manager who dealt with this car has left the company.
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