E46 330 Race Car Project - Suggestions
Discussion
Hi All,
Currently building a BMW E46 330Ci race car but having a few issues of what to buy. So, have come to the oracle of knowledge that is PH for advice. I'm getting the roll cage sorted (extremely slowly) but still need to source some components. This is my first race car project so not looking for BTCC / ALMS spec. What I want is reliable quality, but value for money. Cheap stuff breaks and some kits are just rediculously overpriced for what they are. Not going to specify budget as I want honest opinions from people that have the kit installed, and experience of it. So looking at:
1] Brakes. Either full kits or just disks and pads with a particular fluid?
2] Suspension. OEM replacements, or coilover kits? Factory set ride height and damping or adjustable? Not going to be running on slicks and cage will pick up rear top mounts.
3] Replacement bushes? As I'm pulling this all apart it makes sense to replace all of these.
3] Strut braces and anti roll bars?
This will do for starters. Many thanks in advance and look forward to any advice you can offer.
Ian
Currently building a BMW E46 330Ci race car but having a few issues of what to buy. So, have come to the oracle of knowledge that is PH for advice. I'm getting the roll cage sorted (extremely slowly) but still need to source some components. This is my first race car project so not looking for BTCC / ALMS spec. What I want is reliable quality, but value for money. Cheap stuff breaks and some kits are just rediculously overpriced for what they are. Not going to specify budget as I want honest opinions from people that have the kit installed, and experience of it. So looking at:
1] Brakes. Either full kits or just disks and pads with a particular fluid?
2] Suspension. OEM replacements, or coilover kits? Factory set ride height and damping or adjustable? Not going to be running on slicks and cage will pick up rear top mounts.
3] Replacement bushes? As I'm pulling this all apart it makes sense to replace all of these.
3] Strut braces and anti roll bars?
This will do for starters. Many thanks in advance and look forward to any advice you can offer.
Ian
Firstly, what series are you going to be racing in, or do you just mean trackdays?
1] Brakes. Either full kits or just disks and pads with a particular fluid?
Standard 330 disks and calipers with braided hoses, SuperBlue fluid and Pagid RS29 pads should see you fine.
2] Suspension. OEM replacements, or coilover kits? Factory set ride height and damping or adjustable? Not going to be running on slicks and cage will pick up rear top mounts.
OEM is absolutely not right for track work - it's far, far too soft. You need coilovers. Depending on what you intend to do with the car (and your budget) your options will change. I ran Black Art Design coilovers on my M3 and they were night-and-day better than any of the <£1.5k kits - but then, they cost double that. I'm a firm believer that you get what you pay for with (most) suspension kits.
3] Replacement bushes? As I'm pulling this all apart it makes sense to replace all of these.
Yep, polybush everything.
3] Strut braces and anti roll bars?
Can't vouch for the performance of strut braces on the E46 - IIRC there's a rear subframe issue to be aware of on them, by the way - but having adjustable ARBs is handy for fine-tuning the setup.
1] Brakes. Either full kits or just disks and pads with a particular fluid?
Standard 330 disks and calipers with braided hoses, SuperBlue fluid and Pagid RS29 pads should see you fine.
2] Suspension. OEM replacements, or coilover kits? Factory set ride height and damping or adjustable? Not going to be running on slicks and cage will pick up rear top mounts.
OEM is absolutely not right for track work - it's far, far too soft. You need coilovers. Depending on what you intend to do with the car (and your budget) your options will change. I ran Black Art Design coilovers on my M3 and they were night-and-day better than any of the <£1.5k kits - but then, they cost double that. I'm a firm believer that you get what you pay for with (most) suspension kits.
3] Replacement bushes? As I'm pulling this all apart it makes sense to replace all of these.
Yep, polybush everything.
3] Strut braces and anti roll bars?
Can't vouch for the performance of strut braces on the E46 - IIRC there's a rear subframe issue to be aware of on them, by the way - but having adjustable ARBs is handy for fine-tuning the setup.
Hi OF.
Thanks for the reply. For my first attempts at a race outing I'm looking at the MSVR Trackday Trophy. I want to be able to buy the products and fit them myself (with the help of some ex motorsport engineers). Trying to keep the budget down, but do understand what you mean by you get what you pay for.
Coil over kits seem to range from £500 to £5000. I've looked at some kits online from AP Sportfahrwerke and BC Suspension, which include height / damping adjustable coilovers. These kits are coming out at about £850.
I've been told by a friend to avoid drilled disks as there a chance they'll crack. Interestingly he also said use the same pads you have so I reckon that's a done deal.
What do I need to look at for this rear subframe issue? Would rather deal with this now when the car is in pieces rather than see if it ever happens if you know what I mean.
Ian
Thanks for the reply. For my first attempts at a race outing I'm looking at the MSVR Trackday Trophy. I want to be able to buy the products and fit them myself (with the help of some ex motorsport engineers). Trying to keep the budget down, but do understand what you mean by you get what you pay for.
Coil over kits seem to range from £500 to £5000. I've looked at some kits online from AP Sportfahrwerke and BC Suspension, which include height / damping adjustable coilovers. These kits are coming out at about £850.
I've been told by a friend to avoid drilled disks as there a chance they'll crack. Interestingly he also said use the same pads you have so I reckon that's a done deal.
What do I need to look at for this rear subframe issue? Would rather deal with this now when the car is in pieces rather than see if it ever happens if you know what I mean.
Ian
OK, now I understand what you're aiming at.
To be perfectly honest, I can't remember what the E46 issue is exactly - possibly the boot floor ripping. Afraid you'll have to Google that.
The BC coilovers are pretty much bottom of the range. It's one of those areas where the cost seems massive, but the return is worth it - particularly if racing. You'd be better off looking for some second hand Intrax 1K2 or something like that in my opinion.
Have you thought about wheels and tyres? TD Pro Race 1.2 are the default choice for wheels, and tyres are sometimes stipulated by the race series.
Don't forget to reserve a bit of your budget to invest in yourself - perhaps you've already got loads of race experience, but if not some driver training will reap huge rewards too.
To be perfectly honest, I can't remember what the E46 issue is exactly - possibly the boot floor ripping. Afraid you'll have to Google that.
The BC coilovers are pretty much bottom of the range. It's one of those areas where the cost seems massive, but the return is worth it - particularly if racing. You'd be better off looking for some second hand Intrax 1K2 or something like that in my opinion.
Have you thought about wheels and tyres? TD Pro Race 1.2 are the default choice for wheels, and tyres are sometimes stipulated by the race series.
Don't forget to reserve a bit of your budget to invest in yourself - perhaps you've already got loads of race experience, but if not some driver training will reap huge rewards too.
This was the starting block. While searching for the different parts to build it I needed to start stripping it.
So I started at the rear and made my way forwards following online DIY car maintenance procedures. God bless the internet and all who journey through her. Eventually I came to the dash which didn't want to come out at first, but it was just a case of finding where the hiding bolts were.
Can be followed at: http://www.facebook.com/#!/groups/442187332486918/
IanDH said:
Yep. I know it's a bit unusual for a race car. There are pro's and con's for it, but I can put a paddle shift system in an auto relitively easily, and also allows me to left foot brake without needing to worry about a clutch when shifting.
You must have researched it, no doubt. But what about:
- starts - you won't be able to dial up revs and dump it
- temperatures - is the auto designed to run as hot as it will get?
- weight - how does it compare with the manual?
- replacing or repairing it during a race meeting - can it be done?
- engine braking - you won't have much
- rev limits - if your gearing dictates you need to hold 7500rpm through a corner, how will stop the box from up shifting at 7250 and bogging you down for the exit or unweighting the rear (for example)?
You can left foot brake in a manual. I'm struggling to think of any pros... Perhaps it can be shift kitted/remapped I suppose, to make it snappier.
Interesting project though.
Edited by Reardy Mister on Wednesday 26th September 23:35
I cannot imagine how this gearbox is at all suitable for trackwork - it's a nuisance for fast road driving let alone on track. For wafting about it's a fantastic box but if you want to get a move on even on the road a manual is preferable so I cannot think the 5HP19 on track is going to do anything other than really annoy you.
IanDH said:
Yep. I know it's a bit unusual for a race car. There are pro's and con's for it, but I can put a paddle shift system in an auto relitively easily, and also allows me to left foot brake without needing to worry about a clutch when shifting.
Unusual is an understatement! Smg I could understand but this sounds fishy...It was a trade in that I got for the princely sum of £1750. I was looking at 325's and 328's originally and this one came along the day after being let down on a 328. There's some rust patches but they're not serious. I can sort them easy. However, this car came with a full dealer service history with all the bills, receipts, etc. Took it for an extended test drive with a mate and thrashed the c**p out of it and it didn't miss a beat.
We mulled it over and decided it was worth it.
We mulled it over and decided it was worth it.
Personally I think I would have gone with a manual E36 328.
http://classifieds.pistonheads.com/classifieds/use...
Though I do like the look of the E46.
http://classifieds.pistonheads.com/classifieds/use...
Though I do like the look of the E46.
Edited by Reardy Mister on Wednesday 26th September 23:49
Yep. I went through all of this. 
Having driven it around for a while before stripping it down it's certainly no slouch. Besides, most cars in the Trackday Trophy are much smaller engined and the 330 will be running right at the bhp per tonne limit. I'm not expecing to win anything, but I'm not expecting to come last. It fits the series quite nicely, and if/when I progress to something more 'challenging' I will probably upgrade.
Having driven it around for a while before stripping it down it's certainly no slouch. Besides, most cars in the Trackday Trophy are much smaller engined and the 330 will be running right at the bhp per tonne limit. I'm not expecing to win anything, but I'm not expecting to come last. It fits the series quite nicely, and if/when I progress to something more 'challenging' I will probably upgrade.Reardy Mister said:
Personally I think I would have gone with a manual E36 328.
http://classifieds.pistonheads.com/classifieds/use...
Though I do like the look of the E46.
Agreed. Would have been a good choice. However when searching there were so many cars I could have picked and I had to narrow my search. Had to consider wear and tear, advances in chassis design, and parts availablity. With some other marques racing parts were starting to become less available. Eventually 'Post 2000' ended up being one of my criteria.http://classifieds.pistonheads.com/classifieds/use...
Though I do like the look of the E46.
Edited by Reardy Mister on Wednesday 26th September 23:49
- starts - you won't be able to dial up revs and dump it
- temperatures - is the auto designed to run as hot as it will get?
- weight - how does it compare with the manual?
- replacing or repairing it during a race meeting - can it be done?
- engine braking - you won't have much
- rev limits - if your gearing dictates you need to hold 7500rpm through a corner, how will stop the box from up shifting at 7250 and bogging you down for the exit or unweighting the rear (for example)?
As for the rear subframe issue, the roll cage should pick this up with a subframe of its own. Used in conjunction with the patching kit, it should eliminate this. If I was using slicks I'd be looking at much more structural work, however the cage and kit should suffice.
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