BMW 530iSE 2004 Saloon Auto Gearbox Failure

[robc3303]

Have I been very unlucky ?

I bought an Approved Used BMW 530i SE Auto in 2008 with 49000 on the clock. I'll try and keep this concise...

Up until January of this year, I was thinking this was the best car I have ever owned. It now has 83000 on the clock and I had enjoyed around 10000 trouble free miles per annum, having it serviced at the BMW franchise garage I bought it from. I drive a mix of urban and motorway miles.

I was hoping to carry on driving this vehicle for another year or two as it still looks lovely and I only just finished paying off the loan last September.

In January I noticed the gearbox not performing correctly. Only subtley at first, but then more obvious. Revving up and some awkward changes. At an early service ( a month or two) it was noted I had a small oil leak that needed more investigation. This was ominous I thought, but I never saw a spot (not a drop) on my drive. I did once notice a about a small fingernail of oil on the floor under the car at a car park during this time. Best get it checked though, so I did.

The car had two small leaks: one engine oil due to a blocked breather system that caused pressure to build up and one from the auto box. Cost £1200 to have both rectified, with the "sealed unit" auto box checked and topped up.

The auto box still drove badly with a red transmission warning light coming on at one point. Back to BMW garage for a "double check". Oil in box was fine so if the fault persisted I was warned I would need a new gearbox. It did !

So the quote from BMW, around £4500. (I had just spent £1200). Independent auto box specialist £2000. Approx value of car WITHOUT gearbox fault £5000.

My faith in the brand is naturally shattered (my first BMW) and the car has gone from hero to zero in my mind. BMW offered no other option and therefore effectively washed their hands of me.

So, I guess I am just unlucky ? I am now left with a massive repair bill whilst, I presume, all other 5 series owners will be enjoying many years and 1000s of miles trouble free Auto Box motoring ?

Anyone else experienced this failure ?

[sparks_E39]

Common problem in the E39 I take it it's an early E60? They may have used the same gearbox, not sure.

[robc3303]

Yes an early six speed E60.

I believe its a Japanese made box, ZF.

[miniman]

What fault codes is it throwing up?

[robc3303]

Hi Miniman

From the paperwork I have:

ABCA M-ASK-BO aerial power supply
4F8A EGS: Ratio Monitoring, gearshift 4-5 (This occured twice and has been cleared twice. If i kick down I suspect it will re-occur anytime again)

The BMW procedure codes after the clearing the above faults were:

1 DIAGCODE: D2460_AZ6000000_01_912

then after clearing code after second occurence:

2 DIAGCODE: D2460_AZ6000000_01_901

which led to the advice from BMW to replace gearbox.

(The above means nothing to me of course, but if you can shed any light on it, that would be most helpful)
Thanks

[SVTRick]

I used this company to supply and fit a new transmission to my X5
Very fast and helpfull service

Service exchange box, new torque convertor & all fluids etc.

http://home2.btconnect.com/SUSSEX-AUTO-SERV/contac...

[Fox-]

robc3303 said:

My faith in the brand is naturally shattered

Really?

With respect its almost 10 years old. Nothing lasts for ever and automatic gearboxes certainly don't. It's a shame its happened but autobox failure isnt exactly unheard of and once repaired it'll be good for another 9 years.

[robc3303]

How much did you pay ?

I have had two quotes, from auto specialists, both around £2k plus vat.

[robc3303]

Fox- said:

robc3303 said:

My faith in the brand is naturally shattered

Really?

With respect its almost 10 years old. Nothing lasts for ever and automatic gearboxes certainly don't. It's a shame its happened but autobox failure isnt exactly unheard of and once repaired it'll be good for another 9 years.

Its 9 years old with £80k on the clock. I have owned two previous cars with auto boxes that were fine when sold at over 100k, and these were a Rover and and Alfa Romeo !
So the last thing I expected was for my 5 series to fail so prematurely, so yes, my faith in the brand has disappeared, based on my experience. Sure autos fail, but a quality product like this at 80k ? Its also a sealed unit, suggesting it should last the lifetime of the car maybe ?

My original question was wether I was unlucky or not, so these things are more common then ?

Edited by robc3303 on Tuesday 26th February 21:00

[Fox-]

robc3303 said:

Its 9 years old with £80k on the clock.

Exactly. It's 9 years old. The mileage is perhaps less relevent than you think - it certainly can't make up for the fact it's lasted almost a decade without a problem. Thats not bad going.

robc3303 said:

So the last thing I expected was for my 5 series to fail so prematurely, so yes, my faith in the brand has disappeared, based on my experience.

It's the same gearbox thats found in numerous other marques so if you decided to buy an Audi next after losing your faith in BMW you may find exactly the same box fitted to it...

robc3303 said:

Sure autos fail, but a quality product like this at 80k ?

Again - you keep missing the fact its almost a decade old.

robc3303 said:

My original question was wether I was unlucky or not, so these things are more common then ?

It's reasonably common at this age - it's a case of when rather than if, unless you get lucky.

[robc3303]

Fox- said:

robc3303 said:

Its 9 years old with £80k on the clock.

Exactly. It's 9 years old. The mileage is perhaps less relevent than you think - it certainly can't make up for the fact it's lasted almost a decade without a problem. Thats not bad going.

robc3303 said:

So the last thing I expected was for my 5 series to fail so prematurely, so yes, my faith in the brand has disappeared, based on my experience.

It's the same gearbox thats found in numerous other marques so if you decided to buy an Audi next after losing your faith in BMW you may find exactly the same box fitted to it...

robc3303 said:

Sure autos fail, but a quality product like this at 80k ?

Again - you keep missing the fact its almost a decade old.

robc3303 said:

My original question was wether I was unlucky or not, so these things are more common then ?

It's reasonably common at this age - it's a case of when rather than if, unless you get lucky.

OK, I hear you.. its 9 years old so there's a high chance of failure, simply due to its age and mileage is a less important factor. I'm not a technical person, but the obvious question to ask then, is why is the age factor (rather than mileage and in other words usage) so important ? Wear and tear due to usage I can understand, but mere longevity is a bit harder to follow ?

Anyhow, its happened and that's that. If anyone can give any advice regarding repairs that would be great.. I live in SE London.

[robc3303]

miniman said:

What fault codes is it throwing up?

Hi Miniman

Do the fault codes I put up throw any light on the problem ?

Thanks

[robc3303]

SVTRick said:

I used this company to supply and fit a new transmission to my X5
Very fast and helpfull service

Service exchange box, new torque convertor & all fluids etc.

http://home2.btconnect.com/SUSSEX-AUTO-SERV/contac...

Hi

Thanks for this, just wondering what you paid for te repair ?

Thanks !

[miniman]

robc3303 said:

miniman said:

What fault codes is it throwing up?

Hi Miniman

Do the fault codes I put up throw any light on the problem ?

Thanks

Not really, the only references I can find to it refer to replacing the whole box, as you've found.

e.g. 08-06-2012, 14:08
Thing is, you can't really repair these boxes. The 6 speed 'mechatronics' unit only has two outcomes when you plug is diagnostics; 'replace gearbox' or 'replace mechatronics'. The ECU is in the sump with the valve block and the valve blocks cannot be repaired. Unlike the old 5 speed units where you could separate the sections of the valve body, you can't do this on the 6 speed because a special sealer is applied at the factory. It's this sealer failing that allows the valve body to start malfunctioning and once it's got a problem, it's scrap. ZF and BMW do not supply any replacement parts. The proper auto box specialists will just get a new unit from ZF.

It's a great unit when it works but when it has a problem, it's basically junk. Faced with a £1500 bill for a 'recon' or around the same for a new mechatronics unit, the second option is a winner. The actual mechanical bits of the gearbox are quite good. Sadly, a lot of E60's are going to be scrapped because of this and they are known as being a problem gearbox.

[SVTRick]

robc3303 said:

SVTRick said:

I used this company to supply and fit a new transmission to my X5
Very fast and helpfull service
Service exchange box, new torque convertor & all fluids etc.

http://home2.btconnect.com/SUSSEX-AUTO-SERV/contac...

Hi
Thanks for this, just wondering what you paid for te repair ?

Thanks !

I think it was about £1500 for the trans
Plus fitting total was about £1900 + vat
Fully guaranteed 36K or 12 months

[TX1]

Out of curiosity, would a BMW extended warranty pay for this ?

[hman]

buy a 2nd hand box, get it fitted then sell the car

ZF boxes need an oil change at 80,000 even though they are meant to be sealed for life.

Had oil and sump pan change on mine at 90,000 a year or so ago- now on 120,000 no probs.

Seriously if that's the only problem so far then you are v lucky mine has chewed through 3k in repairs in 18 months without a turbo or gearbox added in the mix as yet!

Same year as yours too

[iSore]

The fact that it is nine years old has nothing to do with it. You'll find seventies Jags where the old Borg Warner 65 autoboxes still work, eighties BMW's where the 4HP22 still functions. No, it's not good enough that the box has failed. It's supposed to be a quality car and the gearbox should last 200'000 miles.
The 6 speed Mechatronics auto is a complex unit. Mechatronics means the ECU is combioned with the valve body inside the box. What happens is that ZF replaced the paper gasket between the two valve body halves with black sealer. This hardens with age and the high line pressures blow a chunk of it out. With a massive pressure drop, the sensors in the box don't know what's going on but the ECU is making what it will from the info and trying to correct things and it can't - it's rather like the blokes in the bowels of the Titanic with big hoses trying to suck water out. That's the rough shifting. These are not rebuildable boxes, but a really good specialist may be able to isolate the fault to the Mechatronics unit - that's going to be about £1500 fitted but if it cures the problem.......

Your faith in BMW is sadly indicative of what they are now, along with just about everything else. Fabulous cars, as long as you have an ironclad warranty. They certainly aren't built to last.


I should add: you're lucky in having an extremely good automatic gearbox specialist reasonably near you. They're called Automatic Transmissions and they're based in Hornchurch. Only a two man band but been going for years and they've done some for me - never a problem.

Here you go:

Automatic Transmissions
144 Hornchurch Road
Hornchurch
Essex RM11 1QH Telephone:
01708 440308
Fax:
01708 440308

Edited by iSore on Wednesday 27th February 17:23

[TX1]

So from the last post I can gather an extended warranty would have covered this.
Only curious as mine is an auto.

[iSore]

hman said:

buy a 2nd hand box, get it fitted then sell the car

ZF boxes need an oil change at 80,000 even though they are meant to be sealed for life.

Had oil and sump pan change on mine at 90,000 a year or so ago- now on 120,000 no probs.

Seriously if that's the only problem so far then you are v lucky mine has chewed through 3k in repairs in 18 months without a turbo or gearbox added in the mix as yet!

Same year as yours too

Well yes and no. I drained the oil from a 2005 one with 80'000 and it was as clean as a whistle. I was tempted to fire it straight back in. An oil change won't prevent the Mechatronics unit going tits-up or a clutch drum splitting open.

£1200 to fix the crankcase breather and replace the plastic sump on an E60 is a good enough reason to avoid main dealers, robbing ba$tard$. Or to avoid an E60!