Buying BMW 650i 06 Model 91K Miles Exhaust Query...
Discussion
Hi,
It's a good few years since I owned a BMW, but have decided to purchase an older 650i as a weekend/pleasure car, to have a bit of fun with. The one I am buying has an after market stainless exhaust fitted, which gives a louder (but not too loud) pleasing tone!
I am buying through a trader, but have managed to contact the former owner today.
The former owner said it was his pride and joy, and tells me that he had the car "health checked" by a BMW dealership, and they gave it a big "thumbs up", saying it was maintained so well, it was like a new car. There are two big invoices for services at a BMW dealership for the last 2 years.
The only thing I am concerned about, and would welcome input from more knowledgeable people here is:
I noticed that on just ONE of the exhaust pipes, there is a very quiet "popping noise", which is consistent, at idle. (I noticed this on a walk-around of the vehicle, after about a 30 minute test-drive from cold). You can't hear the pop unless you put your ear to within a foot or so of the pipe. It's not a "crack" noise, just like someone is whispering "P P P" from just inside the pipe!
The noise is completely absent from the other pipe.
I did go under the bonnet, and didn't hear any odd noises coming from under there.
I looked underneath the car, and noticed a 10cm by 10cm patch of what looked like oil (on the underside of the engine bay cover), about a full arm stretch under the car on the passenger side (the same side of the exhaust that makes the popping noise). I touched this with my finger, and it came away slightly warm, and with an oil-like residue that was virtually "clear" (not black, just like the colour of oil when you first put it in your car!)
The trader is going to look into the oil issue (if it is an issue). It wasn't dropping oil onto the forecourt - just seemed like it was smeared on the underside of the bay cover.
He didn't write anything on the invoice to look into the "popping" noise from the exhaust though: like it didn't matter. (I don't think he thought it was anything significant).
Of course, I've read about the potential "popping" noise from valve issues - so just want to make sure I potentially get this properly addressed before I properly buy the car, and it's too late!
Any advice? Any suggestions as to what this could be, and whether I should by concerned?
Tony.
It's a good few years since I owned a BMW, but have decided to purchase an older 650i as a weekend/pleasure car, to have a bit of fun with. The one I am buying has an after market stainless exhaust fitted, which gives a louder (but not too loud) pleasing tone!
I am buying through a trader, but have managed to contact the former owner today.
The former owner said it was his pride and joy, and tells me that he had the car "health checked" by a BMW dealership, and they gave it a big "thumbs up", saying it was maintained so well, it was like a new car. There are two big invoices for services at a BMW dealership for the last 2 years.
The only thing I am concerned about, and would welcome input from more knowledgeable people here is:
I noticed that on just ONE of the exhaust pipes, there is a very quiet "popping noise", which is consistent, at idle. (I noticed this on a walk-around of the vehicle, after about a 30 minute test-drive from cold). You can't hear the pop unless you put your ear to within a foot or so of the pipe. It's not a "crack" noise, just like someone is whispering "P P P" from just inside the pipe!
The noise is completely absent from the other pipe.
I did go under the bonnet, and didn't hear any odd noises coming from under there.
I looked underneath the car, and noticed a 10cm by 10cm patch of what looked like oil (on the underside of the engine bay cover), about a full arm stretch under the car on the passenger side (the same side of the exhaust that makes the popping noise). I touched this with my finger, and it came away slightly warm, and with an oil-like residue that was virtually "clear" (not black, just like the colour of oil when you first put it in your car!)
The trader is going to look into the oil issue (if it is an issue). It wasn't dropping oil onto the forecourt - just seemed like it was smeared on the underside of the bay cover.
He didn't write anything on the invoice to look into the "popping" noise from the exhaust though: like it didn't matter. (I don't think he thought it was anything significant).
Of course, I've read about the potential "popping" noise from valve issues - so just want to make sure I potentially get this properly addressed before I properly buy the car, and it's too late!
Any advice? Any suggestions as to what this could be, and whether I should by concerned?
Tony.
I've an identical year 650 on standard pipes at 65,000 miles, there's no noise like you describe. Could it simply be a slight difference in the way the baffles were put together in the new boxes?
Mine has just come out of service and two leaks were picked up; A tiny one at the front on the vacuum pump and another from the gearbox switch seal. I've had the latter replaced and a gearbox 'service' done at the same time. There was no visible sign on the driveway from either of them, it was only poking around the covers that revealed the issue.
Good car and 'should be' a great engine.
Mine has just come out of service and two leaks were picked up; A tiny one at the front on the vacuum pump and another from the gearbox switch seal. I've had the latter replaced and a gearbox 'service' done at the same time. There was no visible sign on the driveway from either of them, it was only poking around the covers that revealed the issue.
Good car and 'should be' a great engine.
Many thanks.
I've flagged it with the trader today, and he suggests it's going to the workshop tomorrow for a check-over.
I note on one of the last BMW invoices (Sytner Leicester), that it had a vacuum pump replaced about 7 months ago. Maybe there is a loose or slightly duff connection somewhere. Fingers crossed they find something simple on checking it over. Or like you say: something to do with the exhaust arrangement. It wasn't a full exhaust system (from my recollection of the invoice for it). I believe the 2 last services at BMW have been AFTER the exhaust fitment, so if there had been a notable problem from it - I'm assuming they would have picked up on it at that point.
The engine seems to purr nicely enough under the hood, never blipped on the road test, and the previous owner.
My local garage mechanic seems to think it should be nothing to worry about. He reckons anything significant would likely have caused a management light to pop up; as in his opinion they are quite sensitive to problems these days. (Though he is not a BMW specialist.)
I like to err on the side of caution though; so prevailing upon wider expertise and experience can't be a bad thing.
I've flagged it with the trader today, and he suggests it's going to the workshop tomorrow for a check-over.
I note on one of the last BMW invoices (Sytner Leicester), that it had a vacuum pump replaced about 7 months ago. Maybe there is a loose or slightly duff connection somewhere. Fingers crossed they find something simple on checking it over. Or like you say: something to do with the exhaust arrangement. It wasn't a full exhaust system (from my recollection of the invoice for it). I believe the 2 last services at BMW have been AFTER the exhaust fitment, so if there had been a notable problem from it - I'm assuming they would have picked up on it at that point.
The engine seems to purr nicely enough under the hood, never blipped on the road test, and the previous owner.
My local garage mechanic seems to think it should be nothing to worry about. He reckons anything significant would likely have caused a management light to pop up; as in his opinion they are quite sensitive to problems these days. (Though he is not a BMW specialist.)
I like to err on the side of caution though; so prevailing upon wider expertise and experience can't be a bad thing.
I'm sure you've checked them but mine also needed two new rear tyres. The matching Pirelli run flats were a fairly uncomfortable £500ish for the pair.
Driving mine to Le Mans on Thursday, first decent run I've done in it.
Taking a punt on replacing the CD mutichanger with an iPod link to plug my old Classic into before I go. Found a guaranteed OE s/h unit for £65 and picked up the £40 link cable needed from Dick Lovett this morning. It works fine on the aux cable but would be nice to hide away the wire and get it to work on screen if I can.
Only fault I've identified with mine has been wind noise around the n/s door seal. Tracked the noise down with a bit of trial and error using tank tape. Hopefully just needs the seal packing out a bit when I get round to it, a new one is about £200.
I've had mine about three months, still can't get over the value for money!
Driving mine to Le Mans on Thursday, first decent run I've done in it.
Taking a punt on replacing the CD mutichanger with an iPod link to plug my old Classic into before I go. Found a guaranteed OE s/h unit for £65 and picked up the £40 link cable needed from Dick Lovett this morning. It works fine on the aux cable but would be nice to hide away the wire and get it to work on screen if I can.
Only fault I've identified with mine has been wind noise around the n/s door seal. Tracked the noise down with a bit of trial and error using tank tape. Hopefully just needs the seal packing out a bit when I get round to it, a new one is about £200.
I've had mine about three months, still can't get over the value for money!
I don't know definately that there is an oil leak in the engine bay; only that I swiped some on my finger from the underside of the engine bay cover. It seemed to be discolouring an area of about 10cm x 10cm.
Would oil actually leak through the engine bay cover material? I would have thought it would be non-porous material, designed to protect the engine bay from underside penetration of the elements...I couldn't really see any 'egress' points either, where it could have leaked out and gathered on the underside.at that point.
When I inspected the vehicle, I was only in rough clothing; whereas the staff member at the trader's business was in business attire. He didn't get down on the floor like I did, to look, but I'm sure he suggested he could see something similar, looking down at the cover from above the engine. I don't really know whether he could actually get a proper view past the engine. But anyhow, as it's on the list of things to check; fingers crossed they get it covered.
They wrote to me today that the car is due to go to the workshop tomorrow; having been fitted for new tyres today.
I was mostly concerned with the 'p p p' noises from one exhaust pipe; in case it could be an indication of a valve problem; that could potentially be a high cost resolution. It would be easy for someone to say "Oh, that's nothing - don't worry'" (because I don't have the mechanical knowledge to know better).
Would oil actually leak through the engine bay cover material? I would have thought it would be non-porous material, designed to protect the engine bay from underside penetration of the elements...I couldn't really see any 'egress' points either, where it could have leaked out and gathered on the underside.at that point.
When I inspected the vehicle, I was only in rough clothing; whereas the staff member at the trader's business was in business attire. He didn't get down on the floor like I did, to look, but I'm sure he suggested he could see something similar, looking down at the cover from above the engine. I don't really know whether he could actually get a proper view past the engine. But anyhow, as it's on the list of things to check; fingers crossed they get it covered.
They wrote to me today that the car is due to go to the workshop tomorrow; having been fitted for new tyres today.
I was mostly concerned with the 'p p p' noises from one exhaust pipe; in case it could be an indication of a valve problem; that could potentially be a high cost resolution. It would be easy for someone to say "Oh, that's nothing - don't worry'" (because I don't have the mechanical knowledge to know better).
LFB531 said:
I'm sure you've checked them but mine also needed two new rear tyres. The matching Pirelli run flats were a fairly uncomfortable £500ish for the pair.
Driving mine to Le Mans on Thursday, first decent run I've done in it.
Taking a punt on replacing the CD mutichanger with an iPod link to plug my old Classic into before I go. Found a guaranteed OE s/h unit for £65 and picked up the £40 link cable needed from Dick Lovett this morning. It works fine on the aux cable but would be nice to hide away the wire and get it to work on screen if I can.
Only fault I've identified with mine has been wind noise around the n/s door seal. Tracked the noise down with a bit of trial and error using tank tape. Hopefully just needs the seal packing out a bit when I get round to it, a new one is about £200.
I've had mine about three months, still can't get over the value for money!
I've been managing with a single-disc or 4-disc system for the last few years, so 6-disc will feel like a luxury. To be honest, I tend to be more entertained and thrilled by the sound of a nice big engine and exhaust! That's why (when I have anything worth listening to) I drive with all the windows open in winter, whilst wearing a woolly hat!Driving mine to Le Mans on Thursday, first decent run I've done in it.
Taking a punt on replacing the CD mutichanger with an iPod link to plug my old Classic into before I go. Found a guaranteed OE s/h unit for £65 and picked up the £40 link cable needed from Dick Lovett this morning. It works fine on the aux cable but would be nice to hide away the wire and get it to work on screen if I can.
Only fault I've identified with mine has been wind noise around the n/s door seal. Tracked the noise down with a bit of trial and error using tank tape. Hopefully just needs the seal packing out a bit when I get round to it, a new one is about £200.
I've had mine about three months, still can't get over the value for money!
Last time I went to Le Mans was back in '97. Wow - that's like 1/2 my lifetime ago! :-o Have a great trip!
I'm not sure whether the car I am getting has run-flats on at the moment (the trader suggested not), and I didn't really investigate. I'll start doing some homework when I pick it up on Saturday...
ajwid01 said:
Would oil actually leak through the engine bay cover material?
The oil will be getting out via a drain hole for water. If there is enough to see there it'll likely be quite significant engine side.Very clean and light points to ATF but it could just as easily be oil from rocker covers or other gaskets.
The rocker cover gaskets are a 10 hour job in the BMW book and a proper gearbox service will be about £400 with a new sump and mecatronics sleave.
Is there an actual designated gearbox service interval?
Sounds like I'll likely be looking for my local friendly BMW specialist coming up.... At least I factored reasonable expenditure into owning this vehicle beforehand.
Anyone know a good BMW specialist in the Rotherham/Sheffield/Doncaster area?
Sounds like I'll likely be looking for my local friendly BMW specialist coming up.... At least I factored reasonable expenditure into owning this vehicle beforehand.
Anyone know a good BMW specialist in the Rotherham/Sheffield/Doncaster area?
ajwid01 said:
Anyone know a good BMW specialist in the Rotherham/Sheffield/Doncaster area?
Apologies. I can appreciate it's a pain when people ask dumb questions, before looking around the site fully. Now read through the independent specialist list and the "buying guide". Most useful!:-)
It's not dumb, quite interesting for those already playing I think 
There's a lot of discussion about run flats, particularly regarding ride quality. As there's no spare of any description or indeed anywhere to put one, it makes sense for me to have that even tiny bit of extra insurance rather than just a tin of goo. I haven't driven one of these on normal tyres so happy to stay in blissful denial.
There's a lot of discussion about run flats, particularly regarding ride quality. As there's no spare of any description or indeed anywhere to put one, it makes sense for me to have that even tiny bit of extra insurance rather than just a tin of goo. I haven't driven one of these on normal tyres so happy to stay in blissful denial.
Hi,
I have owned a 2006 650 for 6 years.
Run flats: My Bridgestone run flats had very poor grip and a very unusual wear pattern (wore the inner, centre and outer or both rear tyres). At low speed the ride felt like it had a constant "patter" when driving slowly. About 4 years ago I swapped to Goodyear AS2's which are fantastic. The Patter has now gone, massive improvement on grip and it is much smoother.
No pops from either exhaust on mine. The area of most concern for me would be the dreaded valve stem seal issue. All 645 / 650's seem to suffer from it. It can happen at any mileage from 60k and higher. I first noticed mine were starting to go at about 138k miles. I had them done at 160k miles. Test is to leave it idling when warm for at least 5 minutes, then give the accelerator a good prod, if you see two plumes of smoke they are well on their way out. Over the next 15k miles, the time before the smoke arrives dropped from 5 minutes to about 90 seconds of being stationary. It was a drop the engine job and was circa £1500.
Now the positives;
Very reliable, it has never let me down.
Everything works as it should with no squeaks or rattles.
Looks are ageing well (or maybe I am just getting used to them).
Reasonable on fuel. I live in the sticks and tend to do mostly long runs at ~ 80 leptons and i average about 27.
The specialist I used were "Autohaus BMW" in York who are superb, highly recommended.
I have owned a 2006 650 for 6 years.
Run flats: My Bridgestone run flats had very poor grip and a very unusual wear pattern (wore the inner, centre and outer or both rear tyres). At low speed the ride felt like it had a constant "patter" when driving slowly. About 4 years ago I swapped to Goodyear AS2's which are fantastic. The Patter has now gone, massive improvement on grip and it is much smoother.
No pops from either exhaust on mine. The area of most concern for me would be the dreaded valve stem seal issue. All 645 / 650's seem to suffer from it. It can happen at any mileage from 60k and higher. I first noticed mine were starting to go at about 138k miles. I had them done at 160k miles. Test is to leave it idling when warm for at least 5 minutes, then give the accelerator a good prod, if you see two plumes of smoke they are well on their way out. Over the next 15k miles, the time before the smoke arrives dropped from 5 minutes to about 90 seconds of being stationary. It was a drop the engine job and was circa £1500.
Now the positives;
Very reliable, it has never let me down.
Everything works as it should with no squeaks or rattles.
Looks are ageing well (or maybe I am just getting used to them).
Reasonable on fuel. I live in the sticks and tend to do mostly long runs at ~ 80 leptons and i average about 27.
The specialist I used were "Autohaus BMW" in York who are superb, highly recommended.
Thanks for the info on the valve stem seals.
This car was idling for about 10-15 minutes+, whilst I did a tour around the vehicle. The trader wandered off doing other stuff and left me to it. That's when I noticed the "p p p" noise from one exhaust.
When he did come back, and we were chit-chatting about my findings, he did hit the gas pedal pretty hard - and there were no plumes of smoke visible or other adverse physical manifestations.
That run-flat vs regular tyre noise finding is useful. I do tend to hate odd road noise, and did have some odd tyres on an Audi A8 I was running a couple of years back. I think the tyres were nice and cheap - but the noise was awful (probably similar to the "patter" noise that you mention). I was considering changing all the tyres - but then decided to offload anyway, when a dreaded coolant leak appeared (likely from a small plastic pipe that is a known issue - but a b*stard to get to and resolve - hence nastily expensive {for what it is} ).
This car was idling for about 10-15 minutes+, whilst I did a tour around the vehicle. The trader wandered off doing other stuff and left me to it. That's when I noticed the "p p p" noise from one exhaust.
When he did come back, and we were chit-chatting about my findings, he did hit the gas pedal pretty hard - and there were no plumes of smoke visible or other adverse physical manifestations.
That run-flat vs regular tyre noise finding is useful. I do tend to hate odd road noise, and did have some odd tyres on an Audi A8 I was running a couple of years back. I think the tyres were nice and cheap - but the noise was awful (probably similar to the "patter" noise that you mention). I was considering changing all the tyres - but then decided to offload anyway, when a dreaded coolant leak appeared (likely from a small plastic pipe that is a known issue - but a b*stard to get to and resolve - hence nastily expensive {for what it is} ).
An update today:
The oil leak has been traced. It wasn't immediately obvious where the oil was coming from; so the engine bay cover and engine itself have been cleaned down; the engine left running for a significant period of time - and then the car left on the ramp overnight.
A mechanic has traced the oil to a rocker cover gasket, which they will replace tomorrow (after gasket delivery overnight).
They can't find any hint of a root cause for the soft "p p p" noise from the passenger side exhaust.
All diagnostic hookups look fine. Emissions look fine.
The engine is not misfiring.
The car drives lovely on road test.
The car's memory shows no indication of current or historical faults.
The only thing they can suggest is a slight differential in timing between the 2 banks of cylinders (which seems to echo the only thought that my local friendly mechanic had on the topic).
I've had a bit of a bonus today too. The 2 rear tyres were being replaced: but they think they have traced a "steering judder" at certain speeds to a mishapen tyre at the front - so they are now replacing both front tyres as well. (They had some noticeable wear around the edges - so this is a good result.)
The extra work on the gasket might delay delivery of the car on Saturday though. :-o
The oil leak has been traced. It wasn't immediately obvious where the oil was coming from; so the engine bay cover and engine itself have been cleaned down; the engine left running for a significant period of time - and then the car left on the ramp overnight.
A mechanic has traced the oil to a rocker cover gasket, which they will replace tomorrow (after gasket delivery overnight).
They can't find any hint of a root cause for the soft "p p p" noise from the passenger side exhaust.
All diagnostic hookups look fine. Emissions look fine.
The engine is not misfiring.
The car drives lovely on road test.
The car's memory shows no indication of current or historical faults.
The only thing they can suggest is a slight differential in timing between the 2 banks of cylinders (which seems to echo the only thought that my local friendly mechanic had on the topic).
I've had a bit of a bonus today too. The 2 rear tyres were being replaced: but they think they have traced a "steering judder" at certain speeds to a mishapen tyre at the front - so they are now replacing both front tyres as well. (They had some noticeable wear around the edges - so this is a good result.)
The extra work on the gasket might delay delivery of the car on Saturday though. :-o
ajwid01 said:
An update today:
The oil leak has been traced. It wasn't immediately obvious where the oil was coming from; so the engine bay cover and engine itself have been cleaned down; the engine left running for a significant period of time - and then the car left on the ramp overnight.
A mechanic has traced the oil to a rocker cover gasket, which they will replace tomorrow (after gasket delivery overnight).
They can't find any hint of a root cause for the soft "p p p" noise from the passenger side exhaust.
All diagnostic hookups look fine. Emissions look fine.
The engine is not misfiring.
The car drives lovely on road test.
The car's memory shows no indication of current or historical faults.
The only thing they can suggest is a slight differential in timing between the 2 banks of cylinders (which seems to echo the only thought that my local friendly mechanic had on the topic).
I've had a bit of a bonus today too. The 2 rear tyres were being replaced: but they think they have traced a "steering judder" at certain speeds to a mishapen tyre at the front - so they are now replacing both front tyres as well. (They had some noticeable wear around the edges - so this is a good result.)
The extra work on the gasket might delay delivery of the car on Saturday though. :-o
Do you run the car on super unleaded?The oil leak has been traced. It wasn't immediately obvious where the oil was coming from; so the engine bay cover and engine itself have been cleaned down; the engine left running for a significant period of time - and then the car left on the ramp overnight.
A mechanic has traced the oil to a rocker cover gasket, which they will replace tomorrow (after gasket delivery overnight).
They can't find any hint of a root cause for the soft "p p p" noise from the passenger side exhaust.
All diagnostic hookups look fine. Emissions look fine.
The engine is not misfiring.
The car drives lovely on road test.
The car's memory shows no indication of current or historical faults.
The only thing they can suggest is a slight differential in timing between the 2 banks of cylinders (which seems to echo the only thought that my local friendly mechanic had on the topic).
I've had a bit of a bonus today too. The 2 rear tyres were being replaced: but they think they have traced a "steering judder" at certain speeds to a mishapen tyre at the front - so they are now replacing both front tyres as well. (They had some noticeable wear around the edges - so this is a good result.)
The extra work on the gasket might delay delivery of the car on Saturday though. :-o
I'd be tempted to fill it with vpower and go drain it over 250miles of hard driving using all throttle and all revs.. sometimes a good clear out is what they need.
philmots said:
Do you run the car on super unleaded?
I'd be tempted to fill it with vpower and go drain it over 250miles of hard driving using all throttle and all revs.. sometimes a good clear out is what they need.
I was due to pick the car up on Saturday: but because of this extra work, sorting out the gasket - it might be delayed until early next week now (or next Saturday instead, at worst - if I can't get out of work early to pick it up mid-week)I'd be tempted to fill it with vpower and go drain it over 250miles of hard driving using all throttle and all revs.. sometimes a good clear out is what they need.
I was thinking just this morning, as I drove past the Shell garage - I might just give it a full tank of VPower and do just what you are saying. :-)
This is only destined to be a weekend / pleasure car - so I can likely suck-up the overhead of vPower all the time anyway.
Is it worth all the hype?
I started filling up my Audi A8 with VPower diesel, after I had a dreaded manifold inlet valve failure - through carbon buildup.
Was never quite sure whether it would be making any difference, and never read what was being said about vPower in the public domain.
When I've had older cars with miles I've always ran them on V Power - religiously.
On all of them I've noticed an improvement over the next thousand miles or so, as I'm assuming it's cleaning plenty of crap out.
That and, it just seems a nice treat for a nice car! They're s
te on fuel anyway so a few extra quid over the tank won't hurt.
Good luck with it, I had the 550i and it was really really nice. I fancy another.
On all of them I've noticed an improvement over the next thousand miles or so, as I'm assuming it's cleaning plenty of crap out.
That and, it just seems a nice treat for a nice car! They're s
te on fuel anyway so a few extra quid over the tank won't hurt.Good luck with it, I had the 550i and it was really really nice. I fancy another.
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