Which Anti roll bar and LSD? BMW E36

[SidewaysSi]

I have an old E36 328i which has the Bilstein B12 kit. I think it is a very good compromise on road but the car does roll a bit more than I would want. So I have been thinking an upgraded ARB. Any ideas which is best? Been looking at H&R and Eibach in particular.

Also want to put an LSD on it and rather than going for a worn used E36 M3 unit, prefer to go for a new aftermarket one instead. There is lots of talk about the Quaife but is an ATB diff best for a bit of power oversteer? I think KAAZ are an option as well - anyone have any experience or other ideas?

[e30m3Mark]

Gripper. Call Neil at Automac and say Mark suggested you call him. You won't be disappointed. Neil can also advise re ARB choice.

http://www.automac.co.uk/search?searchwords=grippe...

[E-bmw]

If you just want power oversteer keep the open diff on, the LSD will tame it dramatically and make it accelerate better rather than tail slide.

[E-bmw]

If you just want power oversteer keep the open diff on, the LSD will tame it dramatically and make it accelerate better rather than tail slide.

[e30m3Mark]

You won't get power oversteer with an open diff.

[Olivera]

E-bmw said:

If you just want power oversteer keep the open diff on, the LSD will tame it dramatically and make it accelerate better rather than tail slide.

Come again?

[helix402]

E-bmw said:

If you just want power oversteer keep the open diff on, the LSD will tame it dramatically and make it accelerate better rather than tail slide.

It's true, you can power oversteer lots with an open diff. (Statement based on driving BMWs from 1994 including those with lsds and those without).

[bennyboysvuk]

E-bmw said:

If you just want power oversteer keep the open diff on, the LSD will tame it dramatically and make it accelerate better rather than tail slide.

But surely it's worth it for both the extra control once you do start sliding and also those moments where you've already unloaded the inside rear wheel slightly and all it wants to do is spin up? It's also far better as you straighten up out of a slide. My M135i used to oscillate between one rear spinning and the opposite side doing so as the chassis settled after a slide.

Of the BMWs I've had, the 6 that had LSDs were a million times more predictable when oversteering than the 3 that didn't have them.

[e30m3Mark]

All you'll do with an open diff' is spin your inside wheel. I thought OP was asking about 'power oversteer' though anyway and you will not get power oversteer with an open diff'. You can promote oversteer through a corner (with an open diff') and even maintain it, but the slide is far easier to catch and maintain with an LSD.

[HustleRussell]

E-bmw said:

If you just want power oversteer keep the open diff on, the LSD will tame it dramatically and make it accelerate better rather than tail slide.

Not true.

A car with an LSD, if combined with an appropriate setup, will oversteer at least as readily as an open diff equipped car. However, instead of spinning away power and immediately snapping straight again (and trying to spit you off into the scenery), the LSD will make oversteer more predictable, controllable and easier to sustain if desired.

The OP’s question about roll bars is quite pertinent in the context of LSDs and oversteer, as increasing the rear roll stiffness relative to the front is one way to promote oversteer without significantly reducing the straight line traction advantage of the LSD.

OP, if you want an LSD get an LSD (plate type) and not an ATB. Look into buying a used BMW unit and having it rebuilt, compare that cost to the new aftermarket unit. Pays your money, takes your choice. If you want to make the car driftier and more fun on ‘B’-roads, ask yourself whether you should be fitting a shorter diff ratio at the same time (the trade-off being higher engine RPMs for any given road speed)

I put a used BMW LSD in my E34 525i, fortunately although I got it cheap the LSD works exactly as it should. At the same time I;

• Replaced the factory 15mm rear ARB with a 19mm one
• Fitted Michelin Primacy 3s which were gripper and lower profile than the old Falkens
• Fitted sport springs and dampers which increased the rake by ~10mm

Despite the gripper tyres I have found it no more difficult to make the car oversteer and when it does oversteer it is a million times more controllable.

[E-bmw]

I agree with (pretty much) all of you, I never said an lsd isn't easier/better/more fun etc. etc. All I said was if all you want is power oversteer you can get that with an open diff. Let's face it an e36 328 with an open diff is a REALLY tail happy beast in the wet. The lsd makes it instantly more controllable, but you WILL get power oversteer with an open diff, ask any e36 driver in the wet without traction control of any kind.

[nosuchuser]

HustleRussell said:

OP, if you want an LSD get an LSD (plate type) and not an ATB. Look into buying a used BMW unit and having it rebuilt, compare that cost to the new aftermarket unit.

Noobish question - why not an ATB type? I thought the quaife's were supposed to be better than the ZF LSD. I don't know anything about LSD's, just that I want one to temper that bloody ASC system that keeps spoiling my fun and sapping the power. (too scared to turn it off on a public road...)

Whats the rough cost of the rebuild?

Ta

[HustleRussell]

nosuchuser said:

HustleRussell said:

OP, if you want an LSD get an LSD (plate type) and not an ATB. Look into buying a used BMW unit and having it rebuilt, compare that cost to the new aftermarket unit.

Noobish question - why not an ATB type? I thought the quaife's were supposed to be better than the ZF LSD. I don't know anything about LSD's, just that I want one to temper that bloody ASC system that keeps spoiling my fun and sapping the power. (too scared to turn it off on a public road...)

Whats the rough cost of the rebuild?

Ta

More knowledgeable folk than me will have compared the two at length but in short: An ATB diff has its advantages such as basically never needing a rebuild and having a smother, quieter action. However, they never lock 100% which means they're not much help in some extreme scenarios such as on very very low grip surfaces and behave like an open diff if one tyre has much, much more traction than the other i.e. one driven wheel on the tarmac and one in the air. They eliminate the spinning wheel scenario and provide much better traction than an open diff but the fact they can't completely lock is bad news for drifty drifty action.

My thinking on buying a used unit is this; Fitting a limited slip unit to a diff and / or changing the diff ratio is a bit specialist so you don't want to find yourself in the situation that you have pay again to reverse the job. Buy diff, have it rebuilt (£600 should do it), have it assembled with a ratio of your choosing and swap the unit. It's cost you about the same as a new ATB or LSD unit fitted, Your car is then only out of action for half a day and you can swap between the standard diff and the LSD yourself as you please. You still have the standard one under your bench should you ever need it.

ETA: P.S. What's ASC?

Edited by HustleRussell on Friday 1st September 17:15

[skylarking808]

I have never really played about with the ARBs using 328 Sport standard suspension besides running on 16" light wheels and 205 tyres (square set up)

The factory fitted LSD was a subtle addition and I think you would love it OP. It tugged you around corners lovely and did not bite back. You would also notice the difference pulling out of junctions. It does like to fish tale in the snow though.

You can enjoy the oversteer feel or take below the limit and four wheel drift around corners while moving forwards. Not on a public road of course, but its more about feel for me rather than size of oversteer.
There are a whole host of gearing options/lock ratios to consider into the equation also I suspect.

I would love to try a new aftermarket one though.