E46 or E91 Touring decision - 6 Cylinder
Discussion
Morning all,
We are about to have our first child and are now considering replacements for my partners ageing but reliable Ford Focus. I would be interested to get people's views and experiences of either variant as I cannot decide which one to go for. I do need to go and take a look at both.
Budget is up to £5k. Has to be a touring and I'd like something with reasonable poke for when I drive it, so 6 cylinder only and sport or M Sport only. Prefer the looks of the e46 in sport guise but realise these are getting on a bit now, I've heard they suffer from rust and suspension parts surely a consideration at 100k plus miles. But there are some for £3500, I could spend the other £1500 on maintenance and getting it up to standard. E91 will have more miles on the clock but might be more reliable.
Reliability is going to be the most important factor so which variant is best and then what about petrol or diesel? The car would get used for mainly 25 mile daily journeys by my OH, the longer trips to see family and occasionally by me for the longer work trips to sites to keep the miles off the R32 and address the balance. I've done 20k in just over a year, my OH 6k!
Not a deal breaker but I'd quite like to keep a manual amongst our fleet, my R32 is dsg and neither of us don't want to get lazy and forget how to drive a manual! OH has requested heated seats, decent xenon lights, nice to have include sat nav, Bluetooth or USB for music etc. Presume these all have isofix. Sunroof would be good but do they cause issues?
I'd rule out 335d or 335i at this price point for said reliability, but what about 330i, 330d, 325d, 325i?
Also heard I need to consider blanking swirl flaps on the diesels so will read up on that. Is it expensive to do?
Any pointers would be welcome. I've had my eye on this one for a while but an auto
https://www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/201...
We are about to have our first child and are now considering replacements for my partners ageing but reliable Ford Focus. I would be interested to get people's views and experiences of either variant as I cannot decide which one to go for. I do need to go and take a look at both.
Budget is up to £5k. Has to be a touring and I'd like something with reasonable poke for when I drive it, so 6 cylinder only and sport or M Sport only. Prefer the looks of the e46 in sport guise but realise these are getting on a bit now, I've heard they suffer from rust and suspension parts surely a consideration at 100k plus miles. But there are some for £3500, I could spend the other £1500 on maintenance and getting it up to standard. E91 will have more miles on the clock but might be more reliable.
Reliability is going to be the most important factor so which variant is best and then what about petrol or diesel? The car would get used for mainly 25 mile daily journeys by my OH, the longer trips to see family and occasionally by me for the longer work trips to sites to keep the miles off the R32 and address the balance. I've done 20k in just over a year, my OH 6k!
Not a deal breaker but I'd quite like to keep a manual amongst our fleet, my R32 is dsg and neither of us don't want to get lazy and forget how to drive a manual! OH has requested heated seats, decent xenon lights, nice to have include sat nav, Bluetooth or USB for music etc. Presume these all have isofix. Sunroof would be good but do they cause issues?
I'd rule out 335d or 335i at this price point for said reliability, but what about 330i, 330d, 325d, 325i?
Also heard I need to consider blanking swirl flaps on the diesels so will read up on that. Is it expensive to do?
Any pointers would be welcome. I've had my eye on this one for a while but an auto
https://www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/201...
Hi OP,
My nephew had this issue last year when he became a Dad - he had to sell his E46 325ti Compact because he needed rear doors for getting the child seat in and out! But having a smaller budget (like about 50% of yours) we managed to find him an E46 325i Sport Touring and he loves it.
Anyway for only about 6K miles per year I don't think a diesel would be a worthwhile option and the diesels don't really suit a manual (even if I did have a manual 123d for over 6 years).
But I believe the swirl-flap issue on an E46 isn't an expensive fix - and although the E91 won't need that it probably has a dpf which on lower mileages can be much more of an issue.
Plus if you want a bit of fun when you use it a manual petrol sounds like a better idea! But why rule out SE models - Sport or M-Sport are no quicker and some SEs had the M-Sport seats as an option! At higher mileages they are all likely to be heading towards a suspension refresh anyway so you could always put M-Sport bits on an SE!
I've never owned a Touring, but after my nephew got his I was really tempted! I currently have an E86 Z4 Coupe for weekends (same N52 engine as early E91s) and an E46 325ti Sport for vaguely practical purposes which is what I was thinking of changing (same M54 engine as an E46 325i/330i Touring), but now I have had so many things sorted mine seems practical enough!
Both M54 and N52 engines seem to be capable of huge mileages. The N52 loves to chase the red-line, but if it has a weakness it is the electric water pump which can just die - so you get over-heating in less than a mile (ask me how I know)! A new electric pump is £250 at least. 
(I had mine replaced by a BMW indy with an OEM pump - pump alone was £500).
But I'd avoid the later N53 engine even if it is 1 band lower for RFL - High Pressure Fuel Pump and Injector issues have been reported, plus I think it also has an electric water pump.
Seeing as 325is cost the same to run as 330is I'd always go for the latter - even if the car costs more you are likely to get it back when you sell!
Good luck with the search anyway!
My nephew had this issue last year when he became a Dad - he had to sell his E46 325ti Compact because he needed rear doors for getting the child seat in and out! But having a smaller budget (like about 50% of yours) we managed to find him an E46 325i Sport Touring and he loves it.
Anyway for only about 6K miles per year I don't think a diesel would be a worthwhile option and the diesels don't really suit a manual (even if I did have a manual 123d for over 6 years).
But I believe the swirl-flap issue on an E46 isn't an expensive fix - and although the E91 won't need that it probably has a dpf which on lower mileages can be much more of an issue.
Plus if you want a bit of fun when you use it a manual petrol sounds like a better idea! But why rule out SE models - Sport or M-Sport are no quicker and some SEs had the M-Sport seats as an option! At higher mileages they are all likely to be heading towards a suspension refresh anyway so you could always put M-Sport bits on an SE!
I've never owned a Touring, but after my nephew got his I was really tempted! I currently have an E86 Z4 Coupe for weekends (same N52 engine as early E91s) and an E46 325ti Sport for vaguely practical purposes which is what I was thinking of changing (same M54 engine as an E46 325i/330i Touring), but now I have had so many things sorted mine seems practical enough!
Both M54 and N52 engines seem to be capable of huge mileages. The N52 loves to chase the red-line, but if it has a weakness it is the electric water pump which can just die - so you get over-heating in less than a mile (ask me how I know)!
A new electric pump is £250 at least. (I had mine replaced by a BMW indy with an OEM pump - pump alone was £500). But I'd avoid the later N53 engine even if it is 1 band lower for RFL - High Pressure Fuel Pump and Injector issues have been reported, plus I think it also has an electric water pump.
Seeing as 325is cost the same to run as 330is I'd always go for the latter - even if the car costs more you are likely to get it back when you sell!
Good luck with the search anyway!
Very happy with my auto 2002 E46 330i SE. Lot of well-known issues with E46s but - touch wood - engine itself is not one of them. Your £1500 will soon go if you take note of every post on PH. The catastrophic issue is cooling so rad/thermostat/belts and pulleys no. 1 priority. Rust is inevitable but if only front arches an easy one-off fix. E46 Tourings do look good and you can get a tall fridge or all sorts of other stuff in them. Plus box on roof.
You might find it hard to find a petrol E90 six as that era was diesel heavy. Tax on E91 (I think) punitive. I once drove a E90 325i and was very unimpressed. 330i the way to go, but probably more E46s. For running around daily I would guess 25mpg for a manual. My auto might be nearer 20mpg.
You might find it hard to find a petrol E90 six as that era was diesel heavy. Tax on E91 (I think) punitive. I once drove a E90 325i and was very unimpressed. 330i the way to go, but probably more E46s. For running around daily I would guess 25mpg for a manual. My auto might be nearer 20mpg.
You'll do very well to find a manual N52-engined 330i E91. *very* well.
I can vouch for the auto version, if you're willing to compromise a little on the transmission. Done 50k in mine since 2012, and it's now on 105k. Required very little in expense from me - biggest items are a new wheel (pothole cracked an already egg-shaped one) and gearbox service (at c£350 all in).
They are thin on the ground though, so expect to have to compromise on spec. Personally I wouldn't bother with a diesel unless you're doing big miles, which it seems like you're not.
I can vouch for the auto version, if you're willing to compromise a little on the transmission. Done 50k in mine since 2012, and it's now on 105k. Required very little in expense from me - biggest items are a new wheel (pothole cracked an already egg-shaped one) and gearbox service (at c£350 all in).
They are thin on the ground though, so expect to have to compromise on spec. Personally I wouldn't bother with a diesel unless you're doing big miles, which it seems like you're not.
Swervin_Mervin said:
You'll do very well to find a manual N52-engined 330i E91. *very* well.
I can vouch for the auto version, if you're willing to compromise a little on the transmission. Done 50k in mine since 2012, and it's now on 105k. Required very little in expense from me - biggest items are a new wheel (pothole cracked an already egg-shaped one) and gearbox service (at c£350 all in).
They are thin on the ground though, so expect to have to compromise on spec. Personally I wouldn't bother with a diesel unless you're doing big miles, which it seems like you're not.
They're like trying to find hen's teeth in amongst a pile of rocking-horse poo.I can vouch for the auto version, if you're willing to compromise a little on the transmission. Done 50k in mine since 2012, and it's now on 105k. Required very little in expense from me - biggest items are a new wheel (pothole cracked an already egg-shaped one) and gearbox service (at c£350 all in).
They are thin on the ground though, so expect to have to compromise on spec. Personally I wouldn't bother with a diesel unless you're doing big miles, which it seems like you're not.
I was after one for quite some time. Had an E91 325d auto, which was great but i found the SE spec seats and auto box made it feel a bit dull. Then an E92 325i (N53 3.0) SE manual with sports seats, in an attempt to inject some fun into driving, only the N53 was thoroughly uninspiring and lack of a hatchback opening got annoying quite quickly.
So then the search was on to combine the two, only this time with an N52 engine, ideally in 3.0 form. So the shopping list was manual box, 3.0, N52, SE or Msport (but no silly huge wheels), sport seats.
I gave up eventually. Anything with decent mileage (sub-100k) was £6k+. Most were msports with big wheels, or SE with pretty dull specs (incl chromeline trim which i don't like).
Decided to compromise on size in order to get a 3.0 N52 with a manual box. Gone for a 1 series instead. Purely by luck and what was around at the time over judgement. So getting a 130i SE later this week. Low miles. Sadly no sports seats, but the right colour (sparkly grey), shadow trim, no silly big wheels (just 17s with square setup).
Excited.
Good luck with the search.
To add: i did look at E46s as there seemed to be more choice of 6 cylinder manuals, but rust just seemed to be so common on them and none came up in anything like decent condition, and some dealers were taking the mickey with pricing on anything really nice.
Thanks the pointers chaps. Christ, the different engine codes and numbers is a bit 
Sorry I think my post was misleading, I am doing lots of miles in the R32 (my car) - 20k in 13 months, my OH does less miles than me - circa 6k per year. Whilst the BMW would be her car and the main family car, there would be 2 or 3 times per month when I could use it for longer trips with work to keep the miles down on the R32 a bit. So the BMW could be doing more like 12k p.a and R32 14k miles per year. Hence my decision to include diesel in the line up.
But it sounds as though if I want an E46 manual, it is better suited to the petrol rather than diesel and generally less hassle, no swirl flaps etc. I was considering the E90 to avoid the rust issues plagued with E46.
I agree that if you are going to bother may as well go 330 over 325 in either petrol or diesel, (don't think e46 did a 325d).
This was on sale for a while, was going to see it but now gone.
http://www.oxfordgermancars.com/cars/bmw/3series/3...
The seats in the SE look a little unsupportive which is no good for my back so will need to be an SE with sports seats or M/Sport version. .
Sorry I think my post was misleading, I am doing lots of miles in the R32 (my car) - 20k in 13 months, my OH does less miles than me - circa 6k per year. Whilst the BMW would be her car and the main family car, there would be 2 or 3 times per month when I could use it for longer trips with work to keep the miles down on the R32 a bit. So the BMW could be doing more like 12k p.a and R32 14k miles per year. Hence my decision to include diesel in the line up.
But it sounds as though if I want an E46 manual, it is better suited to the petrol rather than diesel and generally less hassle, no swirl flaps etc. I was considering the E90 to avoid the rust issues plagued with E46.
I agree that if you are going to bother may as well go 330 over 325 in either petrol or diesel, (don't think e46 did a 325d).
This was on sale for a while, was going to see it but now gone.
http://www.oxfordgermancars.com/cars/bmw/3series/3...
The seats in the SE look a little unsupportive which is no good for my back so will need to be an SE with sports seats or M/Sport version. .
si_xsi said:
Thanks the pointers chaps. Christ, the different engine codes and numbers is a bit
Sorry I think my post was misleading, I am doing lots of miles in the R32 (my car) - 20k in 13 months, my OH does less miles than me - circa 6k per year. Whilst the BMW would be her car and the main family car, there would be 2 or 3 times per month when I could use it for longer trips with work to keep the miles down on the R32 a bit. So the BMW could be doing more like 12k p.a and R32 14k miles per year. Hence my decision to include diesel in the line up.
But it sounds as though if I want an E46 manual, it is better suited to the petrol rather than diesel and generally less hassle, no swirl flaps etc. I was considering the E90 to avoid the rust issues plagued with E46.
I agree that if you are going to bother may as well go 330 over 325 in either petrol or diesel, (don't think e46 did a 325d).
This was on sale for a while, was going to see it but now gone.
http://www.oxfordgermancars.com/cars/bmw/3series/3...
The seats in the SE look a little unsupportive which is no good for my back so will need to be an SE with sports seats or M/Sport version. .
You can always put sports seats in afterwards. Few hundred quid off ebay. That's what i might do if the SE seats get annoying.Sorry I think my post was misleading, I am doing lots of miles in the R32 (my car) - 20k in 13 months, my OH does less miles than me - circa 6k per year. Whilst the BMW would be her car and the main family car, there would be 2 or 3 times per month when I could use it for longer trips with work to keep the miles down on the R32 a bit. So the BMW could be doing more like 12k p.a and R32 14k miles per year. Hence my decision to include diesel in the line up.
But it sounds as though if I want an E46 manual, it is better suited to the petrol rather than diesel and generally less hassle, no swirl flaps etc. I was considering the E90 to avoid the rust issues plagued with E46.
I agree that if you are going to bother may as well go 330 over 325 in either petrol or diesel, (don't think e46 did a 325d).
This was on sale for a while, was going to see it but now gone.
http://www.oxfordgermancars.com/cars/bmw/3series/3...
The seats in the SE look a little unsupportive which is no good for my back so will need to be an SE with sports seats or M/Sport version. .
Worth knowing that the 325d is still a pretty good engine, despite being overshadowed by the 330d. The E46 and E90 325d/330d are the same base engine (M57). An E46 330d is 135KW compared to 140KW for an E90 325d, so don't dismiss a 325d E90 just because the 330d is "better", it was good enough in the E46 to get the motoring press all excited.
Personally i'd have an E90 325d and bag the price difference in change, especially if someone has specced it well.
Amazingly when I decided to sell my 123d 3+ years ago I found an E91 330i Sport 5 miles away with 66K miles. It was in a pretty rare metallic purple colour with (I think) champagne leather. I spent a few days wondering, and then it was gone! 
But then it did mean I had a change of plan and went and got my first Z4 Coupe so maybe that did me a favour - even if it meant a "sensible" daily was required for elderly parent taxi duties. So I bought a 325ti Compact!
I would stick with petrol for 12K miles a year, especially if you want to have a bit of fun when you use it! I run my Z4C with the 3 litre N52 engine like early E91 330is on Shell V-Power and the OBC is showing 34 mpg average (although admittedly mine doesn't commute). A 325d or 330d may be more economical, but also has more to go wrong and just won't drive the same!
That sold one you had a link to is way too dear for what it is IMO - the Imola Red 325i Sport Touring with full leather on a 54 plate my nephew bought last year was over £1K cheaper with less miles!
The only thing we didn't realise at the time was that only the 320d, 330d and 330i E46s got the 6-speed gearbox with the facelift - plus the 325ti Compact like he had before!
Good luck finding one OP - petrol Tourings are pretty thin on the ground and seem to sell quickly as a result.
Gratuitous photo of my nephew's Touring with my Compact:-
But then it did mean I had a change of plan and went and got my first Z4 Coupe so maybe that did me a favour - even if it meant a "sensible" daily was required for elderly parent taxi duties.
So I bought a 325ti Compact! I would stick with petrol for 12K miles a year, especially if you want to have a bit of fun when you use it! I run my Z4C with the 3 litre N52 engine like early E91 330is on Shell V-Power and the OBC is showing 34 mpg average (although admittedly mine doesn't commute). A 325d or 330d may be more economical, but also has more to go wrong and just won't drive the same!
That sold one you had a link to is way too dear for what it is IMO - the Imola Red 325i Sport Touring with full leather on a 54 plate my nephew bought last year was over £1K cheaper with less miles!
The only thing we didn't realise at the time was that only the 320d, 330d and 330i E46s got the 6-speed gearbox with the facelift - plus the 325ti Compact like he had before!
Good luck finding one OP - petrol Tourings are pretty thin on the ground and seem to sell quickly as a result.
Gratuitous photo of my nephew's Touring with my Compact:-
My dad is likely to order a new touring next year. He and my mum have owned a e39 523 saloon from new and for the past 11years an e46 330d M sport touring- 2002 and automatic.
They were looking to sell the 5 series but were taken aback at how little it’s apparently worth despite being owned from new and only having covered 50k.
As such I will likely advertise his touring. It’s mint and has done 79k. Regularly serviced, latterly by him with recent discs, pads and Michelin tyres. Very high spec as well with I think almost every factory option. Most of these appear to have done well over 100k making his car hard to value.
It’s a lovely car to drive. It feels punchy and returns great mpg. Shame the current diesel scare has put so many off.
They were looking to sell the 5 series but were taken aback at how little it’s apparently worth despite being owned from new and only having covered 50k.
As such I will likely advertise his touring. It’s mint and has done 79k. Regularly serviced, latterly by him with recent discs, pads and Michelin tyres. Very high spec as well with I think almost every factory option. Most of these appear to have done well over 100k making his car hard to value.
It’s a lovely car to drive. It feels punchy and returns great mpg. Shame the current diesel scare has put so many off.
I bought my current e46 330d manual 12 months ago. Its my second. Unlike most it would seem, I like the manual. This (the 184bhp version) is the one diesel e46 that did not have swirl flaps out of the factory. I don't do the miles but I just like the way the car drives. I bought it with about 180k miles on it, original clutch, original turbo, original pretty much everything - but rusty as hell. I didn't pay a great deal and I probably won't get the rust sorted but will allow the car to die gracefully. It has 12 months MOT, with corrosion noted as an advisory, but if it sees me to October 2018 and no further I will be happy. I have a soft spot for these cars, not sure why. The mpg helps though - twice my X5 40d. I know the benefits can be wiped out by a big bill but it's still nice to see 50s on the OBD and this car at least feels mechanically spot on, even with 185k on the clock.
We bought a phase 1 E46 330d Msport Touring when Oddkid 1 was born and whilst it was a fantastic machine the suspension was so rock hard that anything other than a billiard table smooth road was an ordeal
It was chopped for a 4wd after a couple of tough winters when it was laughably awful on standard rubber but its ride is the thing I remember it for instead of wooof, mpg or long distance comfort on smooth roads
By way of coincidence Im now on the other side of prams, buggies and travel cots and am back in an F31 335d which generally gets a pasting for being soft and wallowy but I find to be just lovely
Cheers
Purely because they are newer and lacking E46 issues like cracking RACPs and rust I'd go with the E90.
If it were me I'd be looking at the 330d or 330i. I could live with either 'box TBH, but would probably get an auto as a daily.
The N52 are a frugal engine too. They can be pushed to 40MPG. However, as said the water pumps can die.
If it were me I'd be looking at the 330d or 330i. I could live with either 'box TBH, but would probably get an auto as a daily.
The N52 are a frugal engine too. They can be pushed to 40MPG. However, as said the water pumps can die.
SebringMan said:
Purely because they are newer and lacking E46 issues like cracking RACPs and rust I'd go with the E90.
If it were me I'd be looking at the 330d or 330i. I could live with either 'box TBH, but would probably get an auto as a daily.
The N52 are a frugal engine too. They can be pushed to 40MPG. However, as said the water pumps can die.
Don't discount the 325d either in E90 form. It's basically the same unit as used in the 330d in the E46. They also don't have the premium price of the 330d. If it were me I'd be looking at the 330d or 330i. I could live with either 'box TBH, but would probably get an auto as a daily.
The N52 are a frugal engine too. They can be pushed to 40MPG. However, as said the water pumps can die.
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