High oil level - dpf issue?

[soupdragon1]

Hi all
Oil level too high warning came up. Car is just over 4 year old, about 70k miles on it. Is this failed dpf regens adding diesel into the engine?

Thankfully, I'm under auc warranty and BMW are looking at it tomorrow. Should I be pushing for dpf to be cleaned while it's in there or just leave them to it. I've about 10 months warranty left but don't want to be left holding an expensive bill 12 months from now!

[jboy72]

I had the same warning on my x5 40d - coupled with some sort of dpf error code. I was concerned but my mechanic confirmed the oil level was normal. That was 18 months ago. No problems since then (connected to this anyway) so I have assumed all is in fact ok in that department! Would be interested to know what the verdict is on your car when it has been checked over.

[soupdragon1]

jboy72 said:

I had the same warning on my x5 40d - coupled with some sort of dpf error code. I was concerned but my mechanic confirmed the oil level was normal. That was 18 months ago. No problems since then (connected to this anyway) so I have assumed all is in fact ok in that department! Would be interested to know what the verdict is on your car when it has been checked over.

Will let you know. I'm X6 40d so may well be the same engine as yours.

[NelsonM3]

soupdragon1 said:

Hi all
Oil level too high warning came up. Car is just over 4 year old, about 70k miles on it. Is this failed dpf regens adding diesel into the engine?

Thankfully, I'm under auc warranty and BMW are looking at it tomorrow. Should I be pushing for dpf to be cleaned while it's in there or just leave them to it. I've about 10 months warranty left but don't want to be left holding an expensive bill 12 months from now!

Failed DPF regeneration won't be covered by AUC warranty. It's not BMWs fault the car isn't being driven properly for the DPF to regenerate. At best if you're taking it to the dealer you bought it from they'll remove the excess oil or drain and refill for nothing.

[soupdragon1]

NelsonM3 said:

Failed DPF regeneration won't be covered by AUC warranty. It's not BMWs fault the car isn't being driven properly for the DPF to regenerate.

70k miles in 4 years and currently, it's on minimum 8 journeys a week of over 30mins steady driving time so how can I not be driving it properly? It's a commuting car, not a school run car (which is what I think you are implying?)

So despite being driven correctly, why would dpf not be under warranty? Are you sure it's not covered?

[Granfondo]

NelsonM3 said:

Failed DPF regeneration won't be covered by AUC warranty. It's not BMWs fault the car isn't being driven properly for the DPF to regenerate. At best if you're taking it to the dealer you bought it from they'll remove the excess oil or drain and refill for nothing.

Should there not be a warning to let you know before it fks up?

[soupdragon1]

Is it true that dpf issues aren't covered under auc warranty? Why would everything else be covered but not dpf?

[Ninja59]

It well could be, mine did this coming to it's first change at only just over 13k.

They did find some contamination with diesel in hence the raise oil level. However I know of others where this happened early on as well.

I have never met ones later in life though. The major problem sadly really comes down to the decreasing quality of oil (even from speaking with a BMW Master Tech at my dealer he said to me off the record CBS oil changes are bo**ocks and what moron would leave oil (even a "high" quality oil like that in for 18k+), add in the contamination with a small amount of diesel then yes it does cause issues.

Get the oil swapped out ASAP.

1) The oil lubrication provided won't be enough
2) With overfilled oil then it could run away instead using oil as fuel instead of diesel, and the results are not worth thinking about.

In most circumstances BMW will just drain and refresh the filter and oil. It should be fine. You may wish to consider better fuels which with different additive packs tend to produce less carbon, therefore reducing the levels of carbon in the DPF.

The car will still try doing a DPF, but it won't last as long as there is less build up, and ultimately less ash in the DPF. Ultimately though brutally once the car is over the 100k marker then you are likely at minimum to be needing:

DPF replacement - hence the comment above less carbon produced, lower amounts to burn off during regen and therefore less ash (consider getting Carly OBDII to have a nose and see how many successful regens have occurred, when they last occurred, average mileage between regens and also the hex codes which change and you can tell when it is doing a regen (although honestly the biggest change is holding revs longer, a slightly more lumpy idle and if you are like me get out and just feel the heat and exhaust tips (carefully!) as they will be absolutely roasting hot following regen).
Gearbox oil change on the ZF8 (ideally it should be done around the mileage you are at now, but many tend to leave it until 100k)
And sadly once they over 100k miles then keep an eye on the old timing chain as around that sort of mileage there is some degree of stretching usually occurring.

In many cases regen is going to be a success is down to a load that is continuous, not a high load, but middle ground and just overall about 20-30 minutes.

X35D/X40D engines are all N57 (in various forms), unless they are the recent G series cars which have been switched over to the new B57.

[AllyBassman]

soupdragon1 said:

Is it true that dpf issues aren't covered under auc warranty? Why would everything else be covered but not dpf?

No, they're talking tripe.

If the DPF is faulty, it's covered under Warranty. If for whatever reason they try and suggest that the car has not been driven 'properly' and has developed a fault because of it, you politley ask them to prove it and also provide the disclaimer you signed to agree to drive the car in a 'paticular way'

[soupdragon1]

Ninja59 said:

It well could be, mine did this coming to it's first change at only just over 13k.

They did find some contamination with diesel in hence the raise oil level. However I know of others where this happened early on as well.

I have never met ones later in life though. The major problem sadly really comes down to the decreasing quality of oil (even from speaking with a BMW Master Tech at my dealer he said to me off the record CBS oil changes are bo**ocks and what moron would leave oil (even a "high" quality oil like that in for 18k+), add in the contamination with a small amount of diesel then yes it does cause issues.

Get the oil swapped out ASAP.

1) The oil lubrication provided won't be enough
2) With overfilled oil then it could run away instead using oil as fuel instead of diesel, and the results are not worth thinking about.

In most circumstances BMW will just drain and refresh the filter and oil. It should be fine. You may wish to consider better fuels which with different additive packs tend to produce less carbon, therefore reducing the levels of carbon in the DPF.

The car will still try doing a DPF, but it won't last as long as there is less build up, and ultimately less ash in the DPF. Ultimately though brutally once the car is over the 100k marker then you are likely at minimum to be needing:

DPF replacement - hence the comment above less carbon produced, lower amounts to burn off during regen and therefore less ash (consider getting Carly OBDII to have a nose and see how many successful regens have occurred, when they last occurred, average mileage between regens and also the hex codes which change and you can tell when it is doing a regen (although honestly the biggest change is holding revs longer, a slightly more lumpy idle and if you are like me get out and just feel the heat and exhaust tips (carefully!) as they will be absolutely roasting hot following regen).
Gearbox oil change on the ZF8 (ideally it should be done around the mileage you are at now, but many tend to leave it until 100k)
And sadly once they over 100k miles then keep an eye on the old timing chain as around that sort of mileage there is some degree of stretching usually occurring.

In many cases regen is going to be a success is down to a load that is continuous, not a high load, but middle ground and just overall about 20-30 minutes.

X35D/X40D engines are all N57 (in various forms), unless they are the recent G series cars which have been switched over to the new B57.

Thanks for this, brilliant post and very much appreciated.
I've been here before with my Jag S Type dpf, it was at about 75k miles and dpf was shot to pieces.
That's a really good shout about Carly, as I've heard about it. For all it costs, versus what it gives you, it's a great purchase. Might even use it to find a way to finally get the wing mirrors to fold on locking

I think I'm on the n57 engine as my X is an E71. Gearbox is sweet right now but worth changing oil anyway as a preventative maintenance. Again, only a few hundred pounds v an expensive bill later.

Thanks again!

[soupdragon1]

AllyBassman said:

No, they're talking tripe.

If the DPF is faulty, it's covered under Warranty. If for whatever reason they try and suggest that the car has not been driven 'properly' and has developed a fault because of it, you politley ask them to prove it and also provide the disclaimer you signed to agree to drive the car in a 'paticular way'

NelsonM3 has M3 in his username so I thought he was a BMW enthusiast but I did think it was a bit odd saying dpf isn't covered under warranty. Will be interesting to see what BMW say when they check it over. As I understand, they will be testing the oil for fuel contamination.

[Granfondo]

NelsonM3 said:

Failed DPF regeneration won't be covered by AUC warranty. It's not BMWs fault the car isn't being driven properly for the DPF to regenerate. At best if you're taking it to the dealer you bought it from they'll remove the excess oil or drain and refill for nothing.

Should there not be a warning to let you know before it fks up?

[soupdragon1]

So BMW have come back. They are sending an oil sample away but takes a week for results to come back.

Options are to take car back as is and wait for lab tests

or to change oil now, wait for lab tests, but potentially have to pay for the oil and filter change myself depending on the lab results....

[Ninja59]

soupdragon1 said:

Thanks for this, brilliant post and very much appreciated.
I've been here before with my Jag S Type dpf, it was at about 75k miles and dpf was shot to pieces.
That's a really good shout about Carly, as I've heard about it. For all it costs, versus what it gives you, it's a great purchase. Might even use it to find a way to finally get the wing mirrors to fold on locking

I think I'm on the n57 engine as my X is an E71. Gearbox is sweet right now but worth changing oil anyway as a preventative maintenance. Again, only a few hundred pounds v an expensive bill later.

Thanks again!

Carly is a really useful tool, for the day to day right through to coding. I have only really used mine for the parameters side to see what information the car is not truly telling me! Regarding the mirrors you basically need to adjust the delay between mirror folding to 0 (interestingly BMW have changed the new G series cars to fold immediately on locking). I believe some of the reason behind the delay was due to bad weather and possibly the mirrors being completely frozen and the risk of the wing mirror motors screwing up.

Regarding yours being an E71, that is one oddity as the very early cars of 2007, possibly early 2008 were still M57. If it is a build of later 2008 onwards then chances are you have the N57 instead.

Both have issues (although at least they are not the N47!):

M57 - more than likely the swirl flaps and the risk posed of them ending up in the cylinder. There are some now having timing chain (Duplux chain) issues, but usually they have monster mileages on (like 150k plus)), timing chain at the front.

N57 - there has been some EGR issues I am aware of (or more precisely EGR coolers splitting), swirls flaps (although not to the extent of the M57), unfortunately the timing chain is a single chain much lighter weight, but can stretch at earlier mileages, and unfortunately brought about the timing chain going to the rear of the engine as part of the N series changes (something BMW have repeated with the newer B series engines). There have been issues usually seen around 100k and a little more with them.

The only thankful thing is the cam timing sprocket is separate part and not machined onto the camshafts like the N47. In reality this is the real source of the problem with the 2.0 4 cylinder N47's. Okay a tensioner or timing guide could still break (being plastic) on the N57. But the chain is under far less strain on the N57 with less revs needed and the design.

Sad fact is pretty much ANY timing chain will eventually stretch, it is just how difficult they are to get to and how long they last between changes. Sadly for the N series whilst it makes the engine bay lighter possibly at the front for packaging changing a timing chain on an N engine car is far more involved in strip down (and usually means an engine out job).

DPF's I have not seen many problems with so it is unusual. But the common issues of diesel contaminating oil etc. from regen is across any brand at some point.

Changing the gearbox oil on these is a bit of process as the gearbox needs to drained (I think the X series cars benefit from the metal sump and non integrated filter in the sump (most BMW's use the ZF plastic sump and integrated filter)). From memory I think the metal sump also has a fill hole unlike the plastic one. But the major issue is when you are checking the fluid level as the car has to be between set temperatures during the process otherwise it all needs to be done from the start again. Make sure you get someone who knows what they are doing (it goes for the ZF 6HP or 8HP (although I suspect you have the 8HP anyway, the process overall is the same though)).

If you are looking to do the gearbox oil, then you may wish to consider the diff oils at the same time.

[Ninja59]

soupdragon1 said:

So BMW have come back. They are sending an oil sample away but takes a week for results to come back.

Options are to take car back as is and wait for lab tests

or to change oil now, wait for lab tests, but potentially have to pay for the oil and filter change myself depending on the lab results....

Change the sod now. Even if it costs you a few hundred pounds in the long run, oil with any form of diesel contamination is not providing lubrication (and critically remember anything related to the timing side of the engine) and as I said above if they are not willing to lower the oil level in the interim then it could just lead to a run away engine until it runs of out of oil to fuel it.

I am surprised by this response, because when mine was contaminated they just changed it under the service pack without question (they would have known my response anyway to change it).

[Granfondo]

Landrover changed oil and filter when my RRS went into limp mode due to blocked DPF.

[soupdragon1]

Ninja59 said:

Carly is a really useful tool, for the day to day right through to coding. I have only really used mine for the parameters side to see what information the car is not truly telling me! Regarding the mirrors you basically need to adjust the delay between mirror folding to 0 (interestingly BMW have changed the new G series cars to fold immediately on locking). I believe some of the reason behind the delay was due to bad weather and possibly the mirrors being completely frozen and the risk of the wing mirror motors screwing up.

Regarding yours being an E71, that is one oddity as the very early cars of 2007, possibly early 2008 were still M57. If it is a build of later 2008 onwards then chances are you have the N57 instead.

Both have issues (although at least they are not the N47!):

M57 - more than likely the swirl flaps and the risk posed of them ending up in the cylinder. There are some now having timing chain (Duplux chain) issues, but usually they have monster mileages on (like 150k plus)), timing chain at the front.

N57 - there has been some EGR issues I am aware of (or more precisely EGR coolers splitting), swirls flaps (although not to the extent of the M57), unfortunately the timing chain is a single chain much lighter weight, but can stretch at earlier mileages, and unfortunately brought about the timing chain going to the rear of the engine as part of the N series changes (something BMW have repeated with the newer B series engines). There have been issues usually seen around 100k and a little more with them.

The only thankful thing is the cam timing sprocket is separate part and not machined onto the camshafts like the N47. In reality this is the real source of the problem with the 2.0 4 cylinder N47's. Okay a tensioner or timing guide could still break (being plastic) on the N57. But the chain is under far less strain on the N57 with less revs needed and the design.

Sad fact is pretty much ANY timing chain will eventually stretch, it is just how difficult they are to get to and how long they last between changes. Sadly for the N series whilst it makes the engine bay lighter possibly at the front for packaging changing a timing chain on an N engine car is far more involved in strip down (and usually means an engine out job).

DPF's I have not seen many problems with so it is unusual. But the common issues of diesel contaminating oil etc. from regen is across any brand at some point.

Changing the gearbox oil on these is a bit of process as the gearbox needs to drained (I think the X series cars benefit from the metal sump and non integrated filter in the sump (most BMW's use the ZF plastic sump and integrated filter)). From memory I think the metal sump also has a fill hole unlike the plastic one. But the major issue is when you are checking the fluid level as the car has to be between set temperatures during the process otherwise it all needs to be done from the start again. Make sure you get someone who knows what they are doing (it goes for the ZF 6HP or 8HP (although I suspect you have the 8HP anyway, the process overall is the same though)).

If you are looking to do the gearbox oil, then you may wish to consider the diff oils at the same time.

Thanks Ninja59, thats really useful. Car is 2013 so will have the awkward timing chain. So basically, after reading this, I should just sell up and buy something else? Only joking Thats good info to know so thanks for all that!

[soupdragon1]

Ninja59 said:

Change the sod now. Even if it costs you a few hundred pounds in the long run, oil with any form of diesel contamination is not providing lubrication (and critically remember anything related to the timing side of the engine) and as I said above if they are not willing to lower the oil level in the interim then it could just lead to a run away engine until it runs of out of oil to fuel it.

I am surprised by this response, because when mine was contaminated they just changed it under the service pack without question (they would have known my response anyway to change it).

Yeah, thats what I asked them to do. No point taking any chances with this.

I have 5 year service pack, but it ran out at 62k miles (car is 4 years and 70k)

So after asking them to go ahead and change to oil and filter and waiting on the results (and depending on result, will see if under warranty or not and if I pay for it or not) they then came back and said car was approaching its next service, and did I want them to service the car at a cost of £270. Last time I checked I-drive, service was due sometime in 2018 (13k and 12 months since last service)

So I asked them that if the car was deemed under warranty for the oil change, do I have to pay the full service cost, or will I pay £160 less due to the oil change being under warranty. They came back and said I had to pay the full £270 regardless of the result of the lab tests on the oil.

This just doesn't seem right. I-drive said sometime in 2018 and when I put this too them, they said it was within 1500 miles of next service so it falls under 'needs a service category' Hmmmnnn....I started to smell a rat at this point?

I think they just want me to pay for everything myself. So I told them to forget about servicing it, just change the oil and filter and then wait on the lab tests. Once resolved, I'll book it back in for the micro-filter etc and get the rest of the service done and a stamp in the book but only pay for those parts, rather than the full £270.

I wonder if they were trying to pull a fast one on me? There is clearly something wrong if the oil level rises, yet the garage is trying to get me to service it at my cost and then hand it back to me and off I go. I'm also trying to think of any possible reason this would not be covered under warranty. If everything was operating as it should then I shouldn't have to pay for any faults with the engine system. If it was ball joints or that type of thing, that could be put down to wear and tear. That I could understand. But oil levels rising - surely there isn't a situation that would arise where it wouldn't be under warranty. I certainly can't think of one....

[Ninja59]

Microfilters and Air Filters are pricey in genuine form.

Microfilters about £85 from memory just the part

Air Filters are a bit more

Fuel Filters similar...

[NelsonM3]

soupdragon1 said:

AllyBassman said:

No, they're talking tripe.

If the DPF is faulty, it's covered under Warranty. If for whatever reason they try and suggest that the car has not been driven 'properly' and has developed a fault because of it, you politley ask them to prove it and also provide the disclaimer you signed to agree to drive the car in a 'paticular way'

NelsonM3 has M3 in his username so I thought he was a BMW enthusiast but I did think it was a bit odd saying dpf isn't covered under warranty. Will be interesting to see what BMW say when they check it over. As I understand, they will be testing the oil for fuel contamination.

It's one of the dangers of the Internet unfortunately. Casual observers thinking they know what they are talking about.

Just to be clear, if the DPF is chucking diesel into the oil then it's because the regeneration is not being completed. As a used car, depending on how long ago you bought it (ask for previous keyreaders from the dealer to confirm it wasn't showing overfilled before you bought it) they might change the oil as goodwill gesture, but otherwise not a chance.

If the DPF is actually faulty that's another question. But on the surface it sounds like it's doing what it's designed to do.