e36 to e82 135 Coupe, anyone done it?

[Drew986]

I currently have a very nice condition 90k miles e36 M3 Convertible that we have been using as a weekend car when the weather is suitable.

Due to growing kids, a second, year round usable car would be very handy, the e36 is great in the summer but at this time of the year I refuse to use it for meanial running the kids about type driving , this is causing issues with my wife.

I've been looking for a replacement for a few weeks and keep coming back to 135i coupe, I'd be looking at a '09 to '10, n54, manual car as I see this, almost as a spiritual successor to the e36 which I love dearly. They have similar dimensions and power to weight, albeit with a huge jump in torque in favour of the 135i, which I'm if I'm being honest I'm rather looking forward to, having coming from a background forced induction cars.

What I'm looking for is people that have made this, or a similar swap, the pro / cons you've encountered living with the e82 Coupe in terms of reliability, practicality and general running costs, bearing in mind it will not be used as a daily, just a weekend car.

Cheers.
D.

Edited by Drew986 on Sunday 18th February 22:18

Edited by Drew986 on Sunday 18th February 22:25

[Mike335i]

Haven't done the swap myself, but I have got an N54 with a manual box.

Check that the injectors have been changed at some point, or budget for 6 new ones at some point. Same with the hpfp.

I would also suggest regular oil changes, more so than the recommended intervals, so annual or 10k miles.

The engine has a good lump of torque from 1500rpm to about 5500rpm, but the surge tails off about 6000rpm, 500 before the redone. It is a very good engine and feels very strong, but isn't a high revver like an M3.

[Drew986]

Thanks for the reply.

I agree about the oil changes, most manufacturer recommendations threse days are far longer than I'd run myself.

I've read the injectors and fuel pump can be problematic on the n54's, along with the turbo actuators and cam covers and seals.

I have also see a car that in the last year alone has had a new clutch, all six injectors and the i-drive updated, so a few less thing to budget for going wrong.

Although the s50 is a bloody good engine, especially given its age, I'm just get little tired of have to work the engine to make any decent progress, I miss the midrange torque of a turbo charged engine so in the short term, I'm not going to miss the high revving nature of an NA motor.

Edited by Drew986 on Sunday 18th February 22:44

[Mr Tidy]

I've never had either, but I've often looked at 130is with the N52 engine.

Would 265 bhp in a 1 Series work for you? I know it feels great in my Z4 Coupe - decent pull at low revs but also happy to chase the red-line.

The reason I asked is it doesn't have the HPFP and injector issues of the N54 engines.

If you don't want a hatch there is always the 125i Coupe, which always had the 3 litre N52 but for some reason it was restricted to 218 bhp. But user "nickfrog" had his mapped back to 130i power levels and seemed to like it!

[Drew986]

Mr Tidy said:

I've never had either, but I've often looked at 130is with the N52 engine.

Would 265 bhp in a 1 Series work for you? I know it feels great in my Z4 Coupe - decent pull at low revs but also happy to chase the red-line.

The reason I asked is it doesn't have the HPFP and injector issues of the N54 engines.

If you don't want a hatch there is always the 125i Coupe, which always had the 3 litre N52 but for some reason it was restricted to 218 bhp. But user "nickfrog" had his mapped back to 130i power levels and seemed to like it!

While I'm sure the n52 is a great engine, I feel it could potentially feel a little lack lustre after recent cars I've had.

I also like that the 135 come with better brakes which could stand up to a trackday or two, (something I'd like to get back into but not done with the Silver Cross M3) without upgrading.

Edited by Drew986 on Monday 19th February 12:17

[Smuler]

Drew986 said:

While I'm sure the n52 is a great engine, I feel it could potentially feel a little lack lustre after recent cars I've had.

I also like that the 135 come with better brakes which could stand up to a trackday or two, (something I'd like to get back into but not done with the Silver Cross M3) without upgrading.

Edited by Drew986 on Monday 19th February 12:17

I had the N54 in a 335i and agree, anything else after a M3 could be a step - back / not powerful enough.

135i should have all the 335i offered me in a smaller, thus more fun package.

I didn't get one, at the time, cos I didn't like the looks and needed more rear seat space.

But I think this 2008 video shows off it's talents.

I went to a E46 M3.

I only had injectors replaced on my 2009 335i and was perfect otherwise when sold at 85k so don't worry too much about the bad press the N54 has got. Just get a good one.

https://youtu.be/9ZGwpifULe4

[ManOpener]

Drew986 said:

I also like that the 135 come with better brakes which could stand up to a trackday or two, (something I'd like to get back into but not done with the Silver Cross M3) without upgrading.

They're better than the standard ones, but lots of E87 135i drivers who frequently track drive fit the M135i/M140i blue Brembo 4-pots, as the BMW Performance 6-pots (which are what are fitted to the 135i as standard, just painted silver instead of yellow) aren't really up to track use and can crack pistons.

[Maracus]

A work colleague is thinking of selling his 135i coupe.

He can't justify both that ad his Boxster S.

His is silver, manual and has sat nav.

[Drew986]

ManOpener said:

They're better than the standard ones, but lots of E87 135i drivers who frequently track drive fit the M135i/M140i blue Brembo 4-pots, as the BMW Performance 6-pots (which are what are fitted to the 135i as standard, just painted silver instead of yellow) aren't really up to track use and can crack pistons.

I'm sure the standard 6 piston calipers fitted to the 135i are really not up to regular abuse on track, but with some decent pads I'm sure they'd be sufficient for a trackday or two and maybe a few ring laps. With two young 'uns free cash and time are both in short supply to become a regular at the track.

[Drew986]

Maracus said:

A work colleague is thinking of selling his 135i coupe.

He can't justify both that ad his Boxster S.

His is silver, manual and has sat nav.

I don't mind a silver Bmw, both my e36 and e46 M3's have been Arctic and Titanium, respectively.

Unfortunately, unless he's looking at a swap I'd need to sell my car before I can start looking in earnest.

[Mr Tidy]

Drew986 said:

While I'm sure the n52 is a great engine, I feel it could potentially feel a little lack lustre after recent cars I've had.

I also like that the 135 come with better brakes which could stand up to a trackday or two, (something I'd like to get back into but not done with the Silver Cross M3) without upgrading.

Edited by Drew986 on Monday 19th February 12:17

Fair enough, but the first E36 M3s (Feb 1992) apparently produced 282 bhp, so I wouldn't see 265 bhp as being too "lack lustre" - especially in a car with some rigidity, as in having the front and rear attached by the roof as well as the floor!

135i brakes may be better, but very few road cars have brakes that can cope with track days - as others on here have said.

Looking forward to seeing what you decide to go for.

[aeropilot]

Drew986 said:

ManOpener said:

They're better than the standard ones, but lots of E87 135i drivers who frequently track drive fit the M135i/M140i blue Brembo 4-pots, as the BMW Performance 6-pots (which are what are fitted to the 135i as standard, just painted silver instead of yellow) aren't really up to track use and can crack pistons.

I'm sure the standard 6 piston calipers fitted to the 135i are really not up to regular abuse on track, but with some decent pads I'm sure they'd be sufficient for a trackday or two and maybe a few ring laps. With two young 'uns free cash and time are both in short supply to become a regular at the track.

They are indeed fine for the occasional track day, even with OEM pads, as long as you are sensible with lap stints and a cool down run etc.
I used to do a few track days per year in my 135i (N55 engine not N54) and the 6-pot Brembo's were more than adequate even with OEM pads for 3-4 lap stints.
Forget doing 20 min+ long stints though.

Do you want to aggressively tune the car?

If so, then a late N54 car is the better option.

If keeping standard or just no more than a mild tune, then the N55 engine car is the one to go for IMHO.

[Drew986]

Mr Tidy said:

Fair enough, but the first E36 M3s (Feb 1992) apparently produced 282 bhp, so I wouldn't see 265 bhp as being too "lack lustre" - especially in a car with some rigidity, as in having the front and rear attached by the roof as well as the floor!

135i brakes may be better, but very few road cars have brakes that can cope with track days - as others on here have said.

Looking forward to seeing what you decide to go for.

Sorry, I meat not to offend.

Maybe lack lustre was the wrong phrase to use, but I really don't want another NA car next time around.

And, I totally agree about the floppy old e36 comment, hence the silver cross never seeing any track action, just sunny days out, with the wife and two kids in the back

But I do not agree about very few cars have brakes capable of doing track work, nearly all my previous cars have been tracked, some more so than others and not one has had anything more than minor upgrades in the shape of pads, hoses and fluid and I've not had an issue with any, A modern, well maintained braking system, in my experience can handle a surprising amount of abuse.

And by track work I don't mean six to eight 30+ minute sessions a day, once or twice a month, I literally mean I'd be looking done a day or two a year to include short sessions and a good chat in the pits in-between.

Edited by Drew986 on Tuesday 20th February 12:24

[Drew986]

aeropilot said:

They are indeed fine for the occasional track day, even with OEM pads, as long as you are sensible with lap stints and a cool down run etc.
I used to do a few track days per year in my 135i (N55 engine not N54) and the 6-pot Brembo's were more than adequate even with OEM pads for 3-4 lap stints.
Forget doing 20 min+ long stints though.

Do you want to aggressively tune the car?

If so, then a late N54 car is the better option.

If keeping standard or just no more than a mild tune, then the N55 engine car is the one to go for IMHO.

I'm sure the stand setup would perform adequately in standard form and should fare better with a mild upgrade of pads and hoses.

Why does the later n54 make it a better base to fettle, and I assume your referring to exhaust and re-calibration work?

I'm sure after a while I'd be open to carrying out some form of tuning so I'd be interested to know.

Edited by Drew986 on Tuesday 20th February 11:26

Edited by Drew986 on Tuesday 20th February 11:33

[aeropilot]

Drew986 said:

Why does the later n54 make it a better base to fettle, and I assume your referring to exhaust and re-calibration work?

I'm sure after a while I'd be open to carrying out some form of tuning so I'd be interested to know.

Late as in, if you are after Nav, the last 9 months or so of the N54 got the newer fixed screen updated Nav system, but they are very rare, and sought after as so few around.
If you're not bother about factory Nav and I-Drive, then any N54 bought on condition is OK.

If you are asking why N54 over later N55 engine for mods, its only relevant if you are after BIG power gains, i.e significantly more than 400hp. as its a bit easier to tune in terms of bits available, than the later N55 cars.

However, the N55 is the better engine in terms of reliability (none of the wastegate turbo issues that the N54 has, and a dual turbo change on a N54 will cost you 2.5k+) and IMHO, its a nicer road car engine, sounds better as well, and is a lot more fuel efficient.
There are less of them available though, as just over half of the N55 cars were specced with the DCT, so N55 + 6MT is rarer than a N54 + 6MT.

[Drew986]

aeropilot said:

Late as in, if you are after Nav, the last 9 months or so of the N54 got the newer fixed screen updated Nav system, but they are very rare, and sought after as so few around.
If you're not bother about factory Nav and I-Drive, then any N54 bought on condition is OK.

If you are asking why N54 over later N55 engine for mods, its only relevant if you are after BIG power gains, i.e significantly more than 400hp. as its a bit easier to tune in terms of bits available, than the later N55 cars.

However, the N55 is the better engine in terms of reliability (none of the wastegate turbo issues that the N54 has, and a dual turbo change on a N54 will cost you 2.5k+) and IMHO, its a nicer road car engine, sounds better as well, and is a lot more fuel efficient.
There are less of them available though, as just over half of the N55 cars were specced with the DCT, so N55 + 6MT is rarer than a N54 + 6MT.

Thanks for the info, very helpful.

Personally I'm not that bother by the Nav option, it's a weekend car so they type of journeys I'd be doing would not necessitate it, I also find Google maps a far more convenient way to use Nav these days, I'd probably be swayed towards a car that had had more preventative maintenance carried out than one with lots of options.

I'd not be chasing numbers, but could possibly see primary cat delete even an exhaust swap later down the line, a re-map would be on the cards but that would be it for engine performance modifications, so either n54 or would n55 would suit I guess.

For me it's going to have to be a manual car, DCT would be a consideration if it were a daily but as a weekend car, 3 pedals is a must, as you say most n55 cars I've seen have been DCT so it's already limiting my choices there.

It really is going to come down to economics and what I can sell my M3 for, I really don't want to be tying much up in the new purchase, once I've sold my car I will start the hunt, unless, in the mean time I see a suitable car at a dealers and we can come to a sensible agreement.

[ManOpener]

Drew986 said:

Why does the later n54 make it a better base to fettle

The twin turbos on the N54 can basically shift more air than the single twin-scroll on the N55, so you can go further on them without having to drop a larger one (or two) in. N54 rods and crank are also forged, whereas N55 are cast, so they'll take more torque (though N55s will still take 500+lb ft on standard internals).

[aeropilot]

Drew986 said:

I'd not be chasing numbers, but could possibly see primary cat delete even an exhaust swap later down the line, a re-map would be on the cards but that would be it for engine performance modifications, so either n54 or would n55 would suit I guess.

N55 only has one cat, and cat delete on them isn't always an option, as well as being seriously anti-social loud.

As you say, with not such a big choice with 6MT N55, a N54 would be better bet.

Make you find one with paperwork/receipts to prove both turbos have been replaced though.

[Mr Tidy]

Drew986 said:

Sorry, I meat not to offend.

Maybe lack lustre was the wrong phrase to use, but I really don't want another NA car next time around.

And, I totally agree about the floppy old e36 comment, hence the silver cross never seeing any track action, just sunny days out, with the wife and two kids in the back

But I do not agree about very few cars have brakes capable of doing track work, nearly all my previous cars have been tracked, some more so than others and not one has had anything more than minor upgrades in the shape of pads, hoses and fluid and I've not had an issue with any, A modern, well maintained braking system, in my experience can handle a surprising amount of abuse.

And by track work I don't mean six to eight 30+ minute sessions a day, once or twice a month, I literally mean I'd be looking done a day or two a year to include short sessions and a good chat in the pits in-between.

Edited by Drew986 on Tuesday 20th February 12:24

No offence taken - if you want a turbo an N52 really isn't for you!

But I like it, so this afternoon I'm off to collect my 2nd. (A 325i Touring).

[Dannbodge]

I went from E36 328i to E90 335i.

Worlds apart. The E90 is miles faster, more economical, safer, easier to drive and more comfortable.

However, it has no soul. The noise was brilliant (induction and exhaust) and it always put a smile on my face, regardless of how I felt.

I've had my E90 3 years now, and still miss the fun of driving the E36 (It had a lot of suspension work and LSD though)

Edited by Dannbodge on Wednesday 21st February 08:00