e90 330i Track Coilovers

[Rob J]

I have recently purchased an E90 330i (05) to convert to a fast road/track car and need some advice on coilover upgrades

Plan is to fit track tyres & coilovers for a start and to get the car out on track to enjoy it before getting too carried away with a 'to do' upgrade list - further mods to follow in due course

I am living in Germany1/2 hr from the 'ring (good twisties all the way there or motorway) so road useage will be minimal and on well surfaced roads

My understanding is (especially with the E90 being an SE on non-M Sport suspension) that it pays to devote a significant portion of the total budget to coilovers, rather than worrying too much about polybushing, anti-roll bar upgrades or other handling upgrades - i.e. money that could potentially be spent in these areas would be better spent by increasing the coilover budget - let me know your thoughs on this assumption...

Dependent on the above I would be considering a lower budget of GBP 1-1.5k (if undertaking other handling upgrades) and GPB 1.5 - 2k if just the coilovers

I am looking at KW v 1/2/3 or H&R for option 1 and KW clubsport for option 2

Please share your thoughts and experience and other suggestions you may have (any general E90 track car advice about where best to spend money and where to start, this is also appreciated, especially for 'ring setup)

Cheers

Rob

[Ahbefive]

My advice would be to buy a different car. The 3.0 is a decent engine in the 1 series but the 3series is too heavy for it imo, especially on track.

Your other big enemy with an e90 is weight, you would need to strip loads out to make it handle well on track.

Make aure you have the right base car before you start throwing thousands at it and realise it was all a waste.

[Rob J]

Ahbefive said:

My advice would be to buy a different car. The 3.0 is a decent engine in the 1 series but the 3series is too heavy for it imo, especially on track.

Your other big enemy with an e90 is weight, you would need to strip loads out to make it handle well on track.

Make aure you have the right base car before you start throwing thousands at it and realise it was all a waste.

I already own the car and not planning on exchanging so with respect this advice doesn't help (BTW what is your advice based on?)

My rough research shows that:

E90 1,525 kg
130i 1,475

(E36 1,395 kg
E46 1,430 kg)

I am not sure that you would be able to feel the 50kg difference, and IMO the shorter wheel base will comprimize handling more than the additional weight

I had an E36 328i as a track car previously (which are widely considered to be strong base) - the E90 is about 120kg heavier, BUT is has significnatly better power to weight, better suspension geometry, better aceleration, better handling, superior reliability etc.

Whilst I agree it is no vegan salad, its underlying characteristics or performance & reliability make it a solid base as a track car (I am guessing that a fairly aggressve diet will save 2-250kg)

Edited by Rob J on Monday 26th March 17:39

[Ahbefive]

Even the 130i I wouldn't say had the ideal amount of power for its weight but it feels peppy enough I guess. The 330i is significantly heavier and feels it, also the size has a bearing on how the weight is distributed and how it feels.

If you are looking to save 250kgs then I guess that means losing the interior. If you lose the interior it is no longer really suitable for road use so becomes a track car only and then you will need to add the weight back in in the form of a roll cage.

It would not be a great choice of track car imo. Just saying.

I could say...... yes, get the bilsteins for £2k fitted and AP racing brakes for another £3k then a grand on bushes and thicker anti roll bars etc etc but I think that is just throwing good money at the wrong car. Sorry, maybe someone else will have a contrary opinion.......

[Rob J]

Ahbefive said:

Even the 130i I wouldn't say had the ideal amount of power for its weight but it feels peppy enough I guess. The 330i is significantly heavier and feels it, also the size has a bearing on how the weight is distributed and how it feels.

If you are looking to save 250kgs then I guess that means losing the interior. If you lose the interior it is no longer really suitable for road use so becomes a track car only and then you will need to add the weight back in in the form of a roll cage.

It would not be a great choice of track car imo. Just saying.

I could say...... yes, get the bilsteins for £2k fitted and AP racing brakes for another £3k then a grand on bushes and thicker anti roll bars etc etc but I think that is just throwing good money at the wrong car. Sorry, maybe someone else will have a contrary opinion.......

OK, not what the thread is about, and not that I will swap cars, but tell me which base car you would buy for £2.5k (what I paid for the E90 - 110k miles and FSH) that would make a better track car to throw that amount of money at?

[Ahbefive]

For £2.5k it sounds like a bargain. For that money you have limited options if you want RWD but I would go for an RX8.

If you want to spend several times a cars value on some mods then thats up to you (seems mad to me) but the RX8 will handle better as standard than the 330i will with £4k of mods thrown at it as will several hot hatches.

[Rob J]

Ahbefive said:

For £2.5k it sounds like a bargain. For that money you have limited options but I would go for an RX8.

If you want to spend several times a cars value on some mods then thats up to you (seema mad to me) but the RX8 will handle better as standard than the 330i will with £4k of mods thrown at it.

Completely off piste now by just for entertainments sake.

It sounds like you are speaking from a position of crippling inexperience;

Virtually every well put together budget track car will have £thousands more spent on making it a track car than the original car cost to buy (have you ever owned/built a track car?)

And yes, the well known RX-8 track car! I can count the number I have seen at track days on one finger (and yes there is a reason for that, despite the fact they are cheap, handle well and have decent power output - most people want to be able to make it home afterwards )

Handling better than a 330i after 4K spent on it? I’m not even sure where to start with this; Agree RX8 do have very strong handling reviews but what do you think I am going to spend the 4K on? Buoyancy aids and a rudder?!?!?

Thanks for the advice, next please

Edited by Rob J on Monday 26th March 18:54

[Ahbefive]

You are in complete denial, thats fine. Getting shirty because you don't like my answer on the other hand.........

I have seen maybe 20 RX8s on track days in the last 12 months. I have seen how many e90 330i's? maybe one on a taster session. I'm guessing you have done no track days.

Rudder and oars sounds about right.

I will leave you to piss several thousand pounds on the wrong car for the job and will watch with amusement. Maybe I will see you at the 'Ring in July and I if so will wave as I pass your vessel in my humble road spec Renault.

[Rob J]

Ahbefive said:

You are in complete denial, thats fine. Getting shirty because you don't like my answer on the other hand.........

I have seen maybe 20 RX8s on track days in the last 12 months. I have seen how many e90 330i's? maybe one on a taster session. I'm guessing you have done no track days.

Rudder and oars sounds about right.

I will leave you to piss several thousand pounds on the wrong car for the job and will watch with amusement. Maybe I will see you at the 'Ring in July and I if so will wave as I pass your vessel in my humble road spec Renault.

Honestly, I’m not getting hot under the collar, I enjoy the banter and respect that you have your own opinion and just having some fun

But what you are saying is a) in cases, contrived b) in many cases plain wrong and c) doesn’t at all answer the original question that I asked

This being the case you shouldn’t be surprised by the ribbing, which is genuinely meant in good faith. But an RX-8?!? c’mon?!?

Ah.. you must be a member of the RX8 members club/former owner.. that would explain a lot

And I’m not in denial about anything...what have I denied? Nothing.

A bulimic supermodel the E90 is not, but for the price give, me a better, higher performance machine with reliability that would make a good track car. Oh and apparantenly one which you don’t have to spend any money on....

No track days. Hmmmmm...OK then. I’m 1/2 hr from ‘ring, just over an hour from Spa & Zolder, just over 2 from Hockenheim, used to live spitting distance from Brands. (Multiple track days at all of them)

Guess I was right when suggesting you never owned or built a track car, confirmed by the road spec Renault (though I do like Renault & considered an R26 - what do you have?)

Remember, even YOU didn’t buy an RX-8!!

Honestly pleeeeeease let me know if you come over in July and then we can compare machinery - it will be fun

Honestly, all good fun and I don’t mean to seem shirty. keep your chin up!

[Ahbefive]

I have never owned an RX8 no. I have a Focus RS that I think is probably a bit pricey to use as a track car and I have an R26 which is primarily used as my track car (and a spare car when the work car is in the garage) but the compromises of stripping it out and adding polycarbonate windows to save 100kgs seems pointless when it is enjoyable as it is and the fully track prepped ones don't seem to be much faster. If the engine had more potential then it might be an option to track it up and trailer it.

If I wanted a full on track car it would really need to be on a trailer and RWD/AWD as stripped cars are not at all suited to driving to and from tracks let alone jaunts to the 'Ring.

I am there in July as I said and it would be fun to see how your coilovered 330i does against a fast road spec R26, RX8 R3 on Bilsteins, Porsche Cayman S on Bilsteins and the other 3 cars that we are going with. My guess will be that we will see you when you finally make it to the end unless you know the track extremely well.

No I did't buy an RX8 but I would have no problem buying one now I have more experience of them. The power disadvantage is the main reason I haven't got one. In a 1350kg car I want nearer 300bhp.

Edited by Ahbefive on Monday 26th March 21:02

[Rob J]

Ahbefive said:

I have never owned an RX8 no. I have a Focus RS that I think is probably a bit pricey to use as a track car and I have an R26 which is primarily used as my track car (and a spare car when the work car is in the garage) but the compromises of stripping it out and adding polycarbonate windows to save 100kgs seems pointless when it is enjoyable as it is and the fully track prepped ones don't seem to be much faster. If the engine had more potential then it might be an option to track it up and trailer it.

If I wanted a full on track car it would really need to be on a trailer and RWD/AWD as stripped cars are not at all suited to driving to and from tracks let alone jaunts to the 'Ring.

I am there in July as I said and it would be fun to see how your coilovered 330i does against a fast road spec R26, RX8 R3 on Bilsteins, Porsche Cayman S on Bilsteins and the other 3 cars that we are going with. My guess will be that we will see you when you finally make it to the end unless you know the track extremely well.

No I did't buy an RX8 but I would have no problem buying one now I have more experience of them. The power disadvantage is the main reason I haven't got one. In a 1350kg car I want nearer 300bhp.

Edited by Ahbefive on Monday 26th March 21:02

Nice work on the RS

Blimey, those Bilsteins must have cost more than the RX-8! hope you had a word about that with the owner

Does sound like it would be a very interesting match up with those four completely different cars - be interesting to see the result. Maybe I’ll have to expedite the other upgrades & weight reduction

I also have a colleague with completely track spec S54 powered E36 M3 (not that we would be much competition) and a friend with an E85? 3.0 Z4 coupe that we could throw into the mix

Keep me posted about coming over

Auf wiedersehen!

[Steve Rance]

If you can find the budget I’d go for KW club sport. They offer a far better level of damping control. They share the same valving as the KW race damper. Go for a paired spring set with assistors for a comfortable road set up. Also go for the top mounts if they are available as a kit. If you are looking at the ring only, I wouldn’t go too mad on brakes initially, just harder pad material and SRF. Tyre wise, cup 2’s.

[anonymous-user]

I'd never put cheap coilovers on anything BUT I reckon £300 coilovers and decent bushes would be better than £1000 coilovers with knackard 110k bushes flopping about everywhere.

I've got an old BMW for tracking, just sorting the bushes out and getting it aligned properly made a massive difference.

[Huskyman]

If you want to try a fixed set up to start with I have a set of Bilstein B12 dampers from a birds B3 suspension kit you can have for nothing. They need a rebuild and some Eibach springs and they could be a good starting point.
Yours if you want them.

[Rob J]

Steve Rance said:

If you can find the budget I’d go for KW club sport. They offer a far better level of damping control. They share the same valving as the KW race damper. Go for a paired spring set with assistors for a comfortable road set up. Also go for the top mounts if they are available as a kit. If you are looking at the ring only, I wouldn’t go too mad on brakes initially, just harder pad material and SRF. Tyre wise, cup 2’s.

Steve, many thanks for the advice - appreciated

[Rob J]

Huskyman said:

If you want to try a fixed set up to start with I have a set of Bilstein B12 dampers from a birds B3 suspension kit you can have for nothing. They need a rebuild and some Eibach springs and they could be a good starting point.
Yours if you want them.

Thanks for the offer, where are they (I live in Germany)

[Huskyman]

Rob J said:

Huskyman said:

If you want to try a fixed set up to start with I have a set of Bilstein B12 dampers from a birds B3 suspension kit you can have for nothing. They need a rebuild and some Eibach springs and they could be a good starting point.
Yours if you want them.

Thanks for the offer, where are they (I live in Germany)

I’m in South Wales.