Replacement of E36 MSport suspension
Discussion
Hi all. Need some advice from the E36 experts.
Been searching the PH forums and the 'net generally but can't seem to find what I'm looking for.
My car's a '95 328i coupe and as such I believe has the factory MSport suspension. I'm considering a suspension refresh this year but (unlike most E36 owners these days it seems) don't want to ruin the ride quality by lowering and stiffening the suspension significantly.
I see various aftermarket springs by Eibach etc and various Bilstein damper options (B4, B6, B8) but which would be the closest equivalent to the factory MSport settings in terms of ride height and ride quality? Is there a particular combo of springs and dampers that are well-matched?
Or should I just shell out a fortune for original BMW parts - assuming they are still even available?
The usual online retailers (GSF, ECP, CP4Less) seem to sell only springs and dampers for non-MSport cars.
Cheers,
Ben
Been searching the PH forums and the 'net generally but can't seem to find what I'm looking for.
My car's a '95 328i coupe and as such I believe has the factory MSport suspension. I'm considering a suspension refresh this year but (unlike most E36 owners these days it seems) don't want to ruin the ride quality by lowering and stiffening the suspension significantly.
I see various aftermarket springs by Eibach etc and various Bilstein damper options (B4, B6, B8) but which would be the closest equivalent to the factory MSport settings in terms of ride height and ride quality? Is there a particular combo of springs and dampers that are well-matched?
Or should I just shell out a fortune for original BMW parts - assuming they are still even available?
The usual online retailers (GSF, ECP, CP4Less) seem to sell only springs and dampers for non-MSport cars.
Cheers,
Ben
I can't add anything E36 specific, but when I recently can up against the same quandary for my E46 sport I fitted B4's and Ebachs supplied in a lot from TDC Automotive, along with new dust covers. Top mounts replaced with locally sourced pattern parts at the same time.
The old Sach dampers were so shot it's impossible to tell how they compare even if they where the original spec parts, and in terms of durability they have only been on a few months. However I think I am happy with the ride, firmer than some cars, but comfortable for every day use and not what I would call crashy.
The ride height didn't change with the fitting of the new springs and dampers, but may have sagged or been previously replaced over the years.
Edit: Have no illusions that these are fairly basic spec dampers, maybe not even as good as the oem spec Sach units when new. However they are commercially available at a reasonable price, and I can't imagine they are worse than a the various mixee and randomly priced own-brand dampers I could find at GSF/CP4L etc.
Daniel
The old Sach dampers were so shot it's impossible to tell how they compare even if they where the original spec parts, and in terms of durability they have only been on a few months. However I think I am happy with the ride, firmer than some cars, but comfortable for every day use and not what I would call crashy.
The ride height didn't change with the fitting of the new springs and dampers, but may have sagged or been previously replaced over the years.
Edit: Have no illusions that these are fairly basic spec dampers, maybe not even as good as the oem spec Sach units when new. However they are commercially available at a reasonable price, and I can't imagine they are worse than a the various mixee and randomly priced own-brand dampers I could find at GSF/CP4L etc.
Daniel
Edited by dhutch on Wednesday 9th May 12:41
IME B4 isn't worth bothering with. If you fit a genuine damper and then try a B4 damper I can guarantee you'll tell the difference between the two, and you'll want the genuine item, assuming both are brand new. It doesn't help that many motor factors out there will sell one part to fit 5 cars in the range, irrespective of body or engine size. Sometimes, the manufacturers (Bilstein) will do this.
There have been instances of B4s failing too lately. Yes, it may be from Bilstein but it is also Bilstein's lower range of products despite coming across as OE and some publications saying it is better than OE. It is well known in the Peugeot world that B4s on a 205/306 GTi were worse than the factory PeugeotSport dampers, which on those cars made the handling interesting.
The E46 M3 has different dampers for Coupe and convertibles on RealOEM. Not according to the Bilstein catalogue. One will be fine for both. It's the same story for the Mondeo. Ford specifiy many different springs and dampers, depending on spec, wheel size and engine size. Bilstein? 2. One damper for non springs and springs (so a 1.8 will have the same spring and damper as a 3.0 V6 or 2.0 Diesel) and one for STs. Oddly, the ST dampers about the same money as Ford items...
And yes, I've been there before on another car. I fitted pattern springs and B4 dampers. On genuine dampers the car was a much nicer drive; it felt 'new' again.
That is assuming all of the above is new.
If it were me I'd be doing the following:
-Genuine; Ask BMW what they sell and try Cotswolds for discount
-Sachs; But I'd want to see they are different across the model ranges and not 'one size fits all' Real OEM and the Sachs online catalogue will tell you whether that is the case.
-Eibach/B6 Combo; the B6 is a very good damper and is of a monotube design.
-Coilovers from Bisltein or KW. Pricey but probably the only alternative if the above aren't for you.
I'd be going for the first option first myself if the price is reasonable.
There have been instances of B4s failing too lately. Yes, it may be from Bilstein but it is also Bilstein's lower range of products despite coming across as OE and some publications saying it is better than OE. It is well known in the Peugeot world that B4s on a 205/306 GTi were worse than the factory PeugeotSport dampers, which on those cars made the handling interesting.
The E46 M3 has different dampers for Coupe and convertibles on RealOEM. Not according to the Bilstein catalogue. One will be fine for both. It's the same story for the Mondeo. Ford specifiy many different springs and dampers, depending on spec, wheel size and engine size. Bilstein? 2. One damper for non springs and springs (so a 1.8 will have the same spring and damper as a 3.0 V6 or 2.0 Diesel) and one for STs. Oddly, the ST dampers about the same money as Ford items...
And yes, I've been there before on another car. I fitted pattern springs and B4 dampers. On genuine dampers the car was a much nicer drive; it felt 'new' again.
That is assuming all of the above is new.
If it were me I'd be doing the following:
-Genuine; Ask BMW what they sell and try Cotswolds for discount
-Sachs; But I'd want to see they are different across the model ranges and not 'one size fits all' Real OEM and the Sachs online catalogue will tell you whether that is the case.
-Eibach/B6 Combo; the B6 is a very good damper and is of a monotube design.
-Coilovers from Bisltein or KW. Pricey but probably the only alternative if the above aren't for you.
I'd be going for the first option first myself if the price is reasonable.
You don't say whether your 328i is standard or a Sport.
I found Eibachs are just too short and it makes the front too low, sitting on the bump stops. Even the 30mm drop made it too low and crashy.
M Sport suspension (all UK Coupes) is Boge gas (Turbo) and slightly shorter springs. The stuff on the 328i Sport is different again with slightly stiffer springs again and the yellow thick tube Bilsteins with the internal bump stop. I don't think BMW sell the springs but they might do - that would be my choice as BMW got this absolutely right. Failing that, a Bilstein B12 kit will do the job but they're pricey at around £650. Lovely stuff though if perhaps a bit overkill.
Bilstein B4's are Indian/Chinese shyte tbh. ECP's budget Anschler dampers are better and Boge Sachs stuff is far superior.
There are other factors on the E36 too. Most likely your car will still have the original rear trailing arm bushes - it's astonishing how many E36's still do, and they will be shagged. They're a cow to change if you use the proper non slotted ones and you may well find galloping rust/rot in the cups where the bracket fits. I'd be taking a close look at this before going any further as it's at least 200 quid a side to weld it up. These are old, old cars now.
The front lower wishbones will need looking at as it will most likely still have the original type rubber sleeved outer balljoints. They aren't the problem many say that are but the all steel Lemforder ones are quite good, but require a special tool to fit. I would buy complete new arms and then - and this is optional - fit the M3 eccentric rear bushes. Again, yours may well be the originals and very tired. The E36 was a very well made car and capable of lasting 15-20 years with minimal work. E36 dampers last around 150'000 miles and are buggered by 200k - they can be absolutely f
ked but still not leak so don't let dryness fool you. Your existing springs may still be okay - a good clean up, de-rust and a coat of paint and off they go although I'd be surprised if the rears are original. For an everyday car I'd say Boge Gas Turbo or Super Touring dampers are fine. New bump stops (Amazon) as well.
I found Eibachs are just too short and it makes the front too low, sitting on the bump stops. Even the 30mm drop made it too low and crashy.
M Sport suspension (all UK Coupes) is Boge gas (Turbo) and slightly shorter springs. The stuff on the 328i Sport is different again with slightly stiffer springs again and the yellow thick tube Bilsteins with the internal bump stop. I don't think BMW sell the springs but they might do - that would be my choice as BMW got this absolutely right. Failing that, a Bilstein B12 kit will do the job but they're pricey at around £650. Lovely stuff though if perhaps a bit overkill.
Bilstein B4's are Indian/Chinese shyte tbh. ECP's budget Anschler dampers are better and Boge Sachs stuff is far superior.
There are other factors on the E36 too. Most likely your car will still have the original rear trailing arm bushes - it's astonishing how many E36's still do, and they will be shagged. They're a cow to change if you use the proper non slotted ones and you may well find galloping rust/rot in the cups where the bracket fits. I'd be taking a close look at this before going any further as it's at least 200 quid a side to weld it up. These are old, old cars now.
The front lower wishbones will need looking at as it will most likely still have the original type rubber sleeved outer balljoints. They aren't the problem many say that are but the all steel Lemforder ones are quite good, but require a special tool to fit. I would buy complete new arms and then - and this is optional - fit the M3 eccentric rear bushes. Again, yours may well be the originals and very tired. The E36 was a very well made car and capable of lasting 15-20 years with minimal work. E36 dampers last around 150'000 miles and are buggered by 200k - they can be absolutely f
ked but still not leak so don't let dryness fool you. Your existing springs may still be okay - a good clean up, de-rust and a coat of paint and off they go although I'd be surprised if the rears are original. For an everyday car I'd say Boge Gas Turbo or Super Touring dampers are fine. New bump stops (Amazon) as well.Thanks for the feedback guys. Looks like I'll be steering well clear of Bilstein B4 dampers then......
To answer some of the questions raised:
The car is not a Sport model, so just the standard MSport suspension. However, I did get eccentric front wishbone bushes and solid-mounted (non rubber) outer balljoints installed when I got it, as I did on my previous 325.
The car's pretty clean underneath and still on the original RTABs though I have replacements ready to fit at an opportune time. Current mileage is just under 42k. ARB droplinks and bushes are still original as are springs and dampers.
Have not enquired re original parts prices but I might ask Cotswold about damper prices. Would Billy B6s make the ride harsher?
helix402: Have to admit I've already installed Meyle HD rear top mounts(!), but not Z3 reinforcement plates. Are they total carp then??
Cheers,
Ben
To answer some of the questions raised:
The car is not a Sport model, so just the standard MSport suspension. However, I did get eccentric front wishbone bushes and solid-mounted (non rubber) outer balljoints installed when I got it, as I did on my previous 325.
The car's pretty clean underneath and still on the original RTABs though I have replacements ready to fit at an opportune time. Current mileage is just under 42k. ARB droplinks and bushes are still original as are springs and dampers.
Have not enquired re original parts prices but I might ask Cotswold about damper prices. Would Billy B6s make the ride harsher?
helix402: Have to admit I've already installed Meyle HD rear top mounts(!), but not Z3 reinforcement plates. Are they total carp then??
Cheers,
Ben
BGarside said:
Thanks for the feedback guys. Looks like I'll be steering well clear of Bilstein B4 dampers then......
To answer some of the questions raised:
The car is not a Sport model, so just the standard MSport suspension. However, I did get eccentric front wishbone bushes and solid-mounted (non rubber) outer balljoints installed when I got it, as I did on my previous 325.
The car's pretty clean underneath and still on the original RTABs though I have replacements ready to fit at an opportune time. Current mileage is just under 42k. ARB droplinks and bushes are still original as are springs and dampers.
Have not enquired re original parts prices but I might ask Cotswold about damper prices. Would Billy B6s make the ride harsher?
helix402: Have to admit I've already installed Meyle HD rear top mounts(!), but not Z3 reinforcement plates. Are they total carp then??
Cheers,
Ben
At 42k, the springs and dampers will be fine. If they still look clean and not Titanic spec I wouldn't bother unless there is a knock somewhere or the car has obvious handling issues. That old Boge Sachs stuff was built to do 100'000 miles or a lot more. To answer some of the questions raised:
The car is not a Sport model, so just the standard MSport suspension. However, I did get eccentric front wishbone bushes and solid-mounted (non rubber) outer balljoints installed when I got it, as I did on my previous 325.
The car's pretty clean underneath and still on the original RTABs though I have replacements ready to fit at an opportune time. Current mileage is just under 42k. ARB droplinks and bushes are still original as are springs and dampers.
Have not enquired re original parts prices but I might ask Cotswold about damper prices. Would Billy B6s make the ride harsher?
helix402: Have to admit I've already installed Meyle HD rear top mounts(!), but not Z3 reinforcement plates. Are they total carp then??
Cheers,
Ben
A road going E36 on ordinary dampers does not need Z3 reinforcing plates. The top mounts should fail before any metalwork fractures.
iSore said:
At 42k, the springs and dampers will be fine. If they still look clean and not Titanic spec I wouldn't bother unless there is a knock somewhere or the car has obvious handling issues. That old Boge Sachs stuff was built to do 100'000 miles or a lot more.
A road going E36 on ordinary dampers does not need Z3 reinforcing plates. The top mounts should fail before any metalwork fractures.
Can't fault the bulk of that. However I would not be supprised if given the age the seals have perished and lost a load of oil, all but irrespective of the milage.A road going E36 on ordinary dampers does not need Z3 reinforcing plates. The top mounts should fail before any metalwork fractures.
Daniel
My car is brilliant on road, really very comfortable but with the changes, a far sharper steer so good fun without any loss of comfort. I use it as our main family car and use it for transporting my 18 month old son so I didn't want anything too harsh at all. Overall I am very impressed. Details are:
- 1996 Non sport E36 328i coupe
- Refurbished Z3 rack
- Bilstein B12 kit
- E30 arms and M3 eccentric bushes
- Eibach ARBs front and rear
- M3 RTAB
- Vibratechnics engine mounts
- 15" wheels with 205/60 tyres
Brilliant set up and only criticism is it is a little bouncy due to the tyre sidewall. I think lowering to 50 profile would be just about perfect.
- 1996 Non sport E36 328i coupe
- Refurbished Z3 rack
- Bilstein B12 kit
- E30 arms and M3 eccentric bushes
- Eibach ARBs front and rear
- M3 RTAB
- Vibratechnics engine mounts
- 15" wheels with 205/60 tyres
Brilliant set up and only criticism is it is a little bouncy due to the tyre sidewall. I think lowering to 50 profile would be just about perfect.
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