Trying to buy a BMW ...
Discussion
This may come across as a bit of a rant. That's not my intention at all. The objective of this post is to a) understand if this is a common challenge when liaising with main dealers and b) seek recommendations of dealers / contacts where the service is far sharper than the current level I am experiencing, even if this requires a change of marque.
I'm in the market for a 'nearly new' BMW. This is a 2nd car to run alongside my X5 for the time being, hence I don't have a specific set of requirements other than primary consideration being on performance with practicality coming a close 2nd. For these reasons, I've been looking at 335d / 440i GC / M140. I like the look of the M performance kit on all 3 cars, so this has been a consideration when searching.
I've not got a huge amount of spare time on my hands at the moment for a number of reasons. I've been fairly candid about this when speaking to my local dealer. My experience of whom so far has been ..
- I agreed a deal verbally on a nice 2017 335d touring (with M kit) in recent weeks. I was encouraged to put down a deposit whilst I thought about it overnight then was literally bombarded with calls from the salesman the next day encouraging me to do so. The car was sold pretty quickly, so by own admission I missed out. That said, the persistent sales chat just pushes me in the opposite direction. Yes, it's their job to sell cars - but persistent telephone calls can often feel like an invasion of your personal space.
- I had some time at the weekend so dropped by the local dealer again on Saturday. Spoke to different member of the sales team and this time looked at an M140 and was also made aware of a 440i GC in a similar price bracket. It was late in the day on Saturday and I sensed a test drive of the M140 wasn't a viable option (understandable). The 440i was offsite so left my details and was told that pictures would be emailed across the following day (car not yet on their website or BMW UK). A further 24 hours pass, so I call this morning and follow up with an email. Keen to make arrangements to drive both cars back to back, I make a follow up call this afternoon where I'm advised .... a) The 440i is now at their sister dealership 45 miles away. I'm encouraged to drive there to look at it. Still no sign of any pictures hitting my inbox and the member of the sales team casts doubt on whether or not its available or has since been sold and b) It's expressed to me that I can test drive the M140 any day this week, as long as its not Tuesday or Wednesday (due to the member of the sales team being off one day and the driver of the M140 being off the other).
Kinda defies belief that I'm being asked to comply with their availability rather than the other way round. Failing some kind of last ditched symbol of professionalism, I'm going to walk away. I await their call back on the availability of both cars at the same location in line with my own availability.
On all discussions with the sales team, I've stressed that I'm not financing the car and as such have been trying to get the best deal possible on the cash price (no trade in either). It occurred to me that perhaps I'm not a priority as they don't stand to make as much money on a sale from me that they would from others.
It's the first time I've been looking at buying a car from a main dealer in a number of years. I don't remember it being this difficult.
I'm in the market for a 'nearly new' BMW. This is a 2nd car to run alongside my X5 for the time being, hence I don't have a specific set of requirements other than primary consideration being on performance with practicality coming a close 2nd. For these reasons, I've been looking at 335d / 440i GC / M140. I like the look of the M performance kit on all 3 cars, so this has been a consideration when searching.
I've not got a huge amount of spare time on my hands at the moment for a number of reasons. I've been fairly candid about this when speaking to my local dealer. My experience of whom so far has been ..
- I agreed a deal verbally on a nice 2017 335d touring (with M kit) in recent weeks. I was encouraged to put down a deposit whilst I thought about it overnight then was literally bombarded with calls from the salesman the next day encouraging me to do so. The car was sold pretty quickly, so by own admission I missed out. That said, the persistent sales chat just pushes me in the opposite direction. Yes, it's their job to sell cars - but persistent telephone calls can often feel like an invasion of your personal space.
- I had some time at the weekend so dropped by the local dealer again on Saturday. Spoke to different member of the sales team and this time looked at an M140 and was also made aware of a 440i GC in a similar price bracket. It was late in the day on Saturday and I sensed a test drive of the M140 wasn't a viable option (understandable). The 440i was offsite so left my details and was told that pictures would be emailed across the following day (car not yet on their website or BMW UK). A further 24 hours pass, so I call this morning and follow up with an email. Keen to make arrangements to drive both cars back to back, I make a follow up call this afternoon where I'm advised .... a) The 440i is now at their sister dealership 45 miles away. I'm encouraged to drive there to look at it. Still no sign of any pictures hitting my inbox and the member of the sales team casts doubt on whether or not its available or has since been sold and b) It's expressed to me that I can test drive the M140 any day this week, as long as its not Tuesday or Wednesday (due to the member of the sales team being off one day and the driver of the M140 being off the other).
Kinda defies belief that I'm being asked to comply with their availability rather than the other way round. Failing some kind of last ditched symbol of professionalism, I'm going to walk away. I await their call back on the availability of both cars at the same location in line with my own availability.
On all discussions with the sales team, I've stressed that I'm not financing the car and as such have been trying to get the best deal possible on the cash price (no trade in either). It occurred to me that perhaps I'm not a priority as they don't stand to make as much money on a sale from me that they would from others.
It's the first time I've been looking at buying a car from a main dealer in a number of years. I don't remember it being this difficult.
Edited by GC1976 on Monday 2nd July 16:10
Fwiw I found the same with two different local branches of sytner. Very difficult to get a test drive, like pulling teeth to get any info about car features etc. Conversely my current car was bought off the cuff from a specialist. Id dropped in to take a look, they *offered* a test drive with no obligation - I think I even said I doubt I'd be buying it. Really helpful in general, showing me features etc. Liked car and ended up bought it.
Don't know why main dealers can be so difficult. Faux snobbery perhaps. Can't think why.
Don't know why main dealers can be so difficult. Faux snobbery perhaps. Can't think why.
Interesting. I have also been looking to buy a 140i from BMW, and Dick Lovett and Sytner have been exceptional. In fact, Dick Lovett even offered an extended test drive, which was most refreshing. I can't stand driving a car for 10 minutes, as you don't get a feel for what you're buying in that short space of time.
I'd recommend speaking to Dick Lovett in Bath, they're very good indeed.
I'd recommend speaking to Dick Lovett in Bath, they're very good indeed.
Thanks both, sounds like I'm not alone. Very much at the opposite end of the country from you both as well.
Thinking about it, I think this is why I shunned buying from main dealers. Other than company cars, anything else I've bought in the last few years has been via a private sale or local trusted specialist.
I find dealers want to put so many things in the way that would prevent some people from progressing further. In my recent dealings (on the M140 in particular) I was told 'the price is the price / we've already reduced it / non negotiable'. I guess for some people they take that at face value and reach agreement accordingly. For me, its a blocker. It wouldn't necessarily prevent me from making an offer, but it does stop the flow of the conversation that otherwise may have resulted in a sale.
Thinking about it, I think this is why I shunned buying from main dealers. Other than company cars, anything else I've bought in the last few years has been via a private sale or local trusted specialist.
I find dealers want to put so many things in the way that would prevent some people from progressing further. In my recent dealings (on the M140 in particular) I was told 'the price is the price / we've already reduced it / non negotiable'. I guess for some people they take that at face value and reach agreement accordingly. For me, its a blocker. It wouldn't necessarily prevent me from making an offer, but it does stop the flow of the conversation that otherwise may have resulted in a sale.
What a PITA, where I've had similar it was just a particular prat of salesperson and I just told him I won't deal with him and found another. It's easier if you're in the place then you judge on instinct who seems straight.
Since then in my local dealers, Sytner Cardiff (where the pratt resided) and Swansea (Trainer at the time) I found it easy to get test drives, the Cardiff one was so long I though we were going on road trip.
Since then in my local dealers, Sytner Cardiff (where the pratt resided) and Swansea (Trainer at the time) I found it easy to get test drives, the Cardiff one was so long I though we were going on road trip.
PITA indeed.
I didn't even touch on being flip flopped between members of the sales team. The guy I dealt with at the weekend has reverted to me back to his colleague that I liaised with several weeks ago without so much as telling me. I've since received a voicemail from the service reception saying they were returning my call? Chaos.
Now wondering how they manage to get out bed in the morning, let alone run a dealership. Quite sad really
I didn't even touch on being flip flopped between members of the sales team. The guy I dealt with at the weekend has reverted to me back to his colleague that I liaised with several weeks ago without so much as telling me. I've since received a voicemail from the service reception saying they were returning my call? Chaos.
Now wondering how they manage to get out bed in the morning, let alone run a dealership. Quite sad really
Both Sytner Tamworth and Coventry were fantastic with me - but then again I was buying new with finance, so as you've said they're probably more interested in new car sales volumes than anything else.
Pretty mental when they probably make more money for the dealership on the AUC cars.
Pretty mental when they probably make more money for the dealership on the AUC cars.
I had no problems with the initial phone contact or arranging to see the cars and test drives. However the utter b
ks that follows almost puts me off buying from BMW in the future. I was introduced to all sorts of different people that were of no interest to me, seemingly a manager for everything. One even asked when I'd be getting rid of the car, what the car that I haven't paid for or driven off the forecourt yet? Must have been in the dealership for a good few hours and it was the same again on the day of collection. Some people might enjoy all the crap, I certainly don't.
Bought my wife a Ford, that was actually a far better experience, wasn't hounded constantly about finance or part exchange.
ks that follows almost puts me off buying from BMW in the future. I was introduced to all sorts of different people that were of no interest to me, seemingly a manager for everything. One even asked when I'd be getting rid of the car, what the car that I haven't paid for or driven off the forecourt yet? Must have been in the dealership for a good few hours and it was the same again on the day of collection. Some people might enjoy all the crap, I certainly don't.Bought my wife a Ford, that was actually a far better experience, wasn't hounded constantly about finance or part exchange.
Pig benis said:
Interesting. I have also been looking to buy a 140i from BMW, and Dick Lovett and Sytner have been exceptional. In fact, Dick Lovett even offered an extended test drive, which was most refreshing. I can't stand driving a car for 10 minutes, as you don't get a feel for what you're buying in that short space of time.
Where you looking at buying new or used?At a guess, and don't shoot the messenger for this, but i'm guessing you're not getting much from them because of the combination of:
a) you're undecided about which model you want
b) you've already mentioned "what's your best price"
Those together would be a red flag that you're not serious and/or you're wanting to use them to decide on the model before going elsewhere to purchase.
Like i said, just my 2p based on the various "ask a salesman" threads we've had.
I think you need to decide on which model, then find exactly the right car, and then talk money.
EDIT: you removed your post so i've removed my quote of it
a) you're undecided about which model you want
b) you've already mentioned "what's your best price"
Those together would be a red flag that you're not serious and/or you're wanting to use them to decide on the model before going elsewhere to purchase.
Like i said, just my 2p based on the various "ask a salesman" threads we've had.
I think you need to decide on which model, then find exactly the right car, and then talk money.
EDIT: you removed your post so i've removed my quote of it
I’ve experienced similar ‘service’ from my local Coopers.
The 530d I bought from them new in 2014 was in for service. I was in the market to change it and arranged, with 10 days notice, to test a 530i and 540i G30.
When I turned up neither car was available and the sales guy was just not interested. After about 30 minutes he offered me a 520d Touring for ‘a while’.
I took it out for 5 minutes to confirm it wasn’t for me. Not sure why I even bothered.
Went back and finally got a full quote for a 540i (about £55k list) and a rough verbal estimate for a similar spec 530i. Collected my car and went home. Never did receive any follow up.
No matter; they did me a favour. I bought a 25T Portfolio XF. Maybe not as good an interior as the G30 but the ride and handling’s significantly better, the engines at least as good as the 530i, it’s quieter, less expensive to buy and run and at least my dealer, so far, seems to value my custom.
The 530d I bought from them new in 2014 was in for service. I was in the market to change it and arranged, with 10 days notice, to test a 530i and 540i G30.
When I turned up neither car was available and the sales guy was just not interested. After about 30 minutes he offered me a 520d Touring for ‘a while’.
I took it out for 5 minutes to confirm it wasn’t for me. Not sure why I even bothered.
Went back and finally got a full quote for a 540i (about £55k list) and a rough verbal estimate for a similar spec 530i. Collected my car and went home. Never did receive any follow up.
No matter; they did me a favour. I bought a 25T Portfolio XF. Maybe not as good an interior as the G30 but the ride and handling’s significantly better, the engines at least as good as the 530i, it’s quieter, less expensive to buy and run and at least my dealer, so far, seems to value my custom.
It’s a fair point PTF, I very much fall into both categories you mention.
That said, I also don’t think it’s unreasonable of me to expect the sales team to advice me on a) the best product for my needs and b) the best deal possible reflective of a).
Many dealers refer to their staff as ‘Product Genius’ - I feel my expectations are fair, but point taken and I agree that this may be resulting in the response I’ve been getting.
I deleted my post as I’d referred to the dealer by name out of frustration and that was never my intention. Flip side is that they delivered their M140 demo to my door, so they have up’d their game in my eyes.
Incidentally, loved the M140 and would like to compare to the 440 or even the 340. M140 perhaps just a bit too tight on room for adhoc family duties.
That said, I also don’t think it’s unreasonable of me to expect the sales team to advice me on a) the best product for my needs and b) the best deal possible reflective of a).
Many dealers refer to their staff as ‘Product Genius’ - I feel my expectations are fair, but point taken and I agree that this may be resulting in the response I’ve been getting.
I deleted my post as I’d referred to the dealer by name out of frustration and that was never my intention. Flip side is that they delivered their M140 demo to my door, so they have up’d their game in my eyes.
Incidentally, loved the M140 and would like to compare to the 440 or even the 340. M140 perhaps just a bit too tight on room for adhoc family duties.
I think the issue is they sell used cars pretty quickly and, unlike new where they can just order another, there's only one of each used car.
If it's attractive then it'll sell, and the salesman needs to extract the maximum value out of it by selling it at list price and on finance. If you're standing there with the salesman and the car then he'll want to do a deal but only because if he doesn't sell it to you them one of his colleagues will sell it someone else and his opportunity to sell that car has gone. Trying to sort this out in advance and over the 'phone / email is just hopeless.
If it's attractive then it'll sell, and the salesman needs to extract the maximum value out of it by selling it at list price and on finance. If you're standing there with the salesman and the car then he'll want to do a deal but only because if he doesn't sell it to you them one of his colleagues will sell it someone else and his opportunity to sell that car has gone. Trying to sort this out in advance and over the 'phone / email is just hopeless.
Granted, I posted this a couple of months ago initially but felt compelled to close off the loop.
I remained in discussion with the local BMW dealer for a few more days / weeks to no avail. To summarise, I narrowed my interest down to either a M140 or a 340 M Sport. Each car well spec'd, ex demos and in similar but not identical price brackets.
I was ready to do a deal on either of these cars based on whatever represented the best value for money to me personally. The claims of a 'transparent pricing policy' just became a contradiction in terms. One car that I viewed (and dismissed) leapt from £28k to £30k during a stock movement from Edinburgh to Perth. I grew tired of the promise of call backs after the salesperson got back in touch to tell me that they were ready to do a deal on the M140, only for me to respond and commit to discussing in person and then only to be told that there was no movement on price yet again.
I get the fact that they will most likely be hedging their bets on selling the car to whoever would appear most likely to be prepared to pay full price. What I don't understand is the time wasting tactics employed by some of the sales team in order to achieve this.
In the end, I went off piste entirely with my purchase and bought a 2010 Boxster 987.2 S from a local independent. Exceptional no nonsense service whilst also figuring that the rate of depreciation would be considerably less on an 8 year old Boxster when compared to a 6 month old M140 with close to 10k miles on the clock.
Comparing apples with pears perhaps, but the attitude of the main dealer has put me off for a long time to come.
I remained in discussion with the local BMW dealer for a few more days / weeks to no avail. To summarise, I narrowed my interest down to either a M140 or a 340 M Sport. Each car well spec'd, ex demos and in similar but not identical price brackets.
I was ready to do a deal on either of these cars based on whatever represented the best value for money to me personally. The claims of a 'transparent pricing policy' just became a contradiction in terms. One car that I viewed (and dismissed) leapt from £28k to £30k during a stock movement from Edinburgh to Perth. I grew tired of the promise of call backs after the salesperson got back in touch to tell me that they were ready to do a deal on the M140, only for me to respond and commit to discussing in person and then only to be told that there was no movement on price yet again.
I get the fact that they will most likely be hedging their bets on selling the car to whoever would appear most likely to be prepared to pay full price. What I don't understand is the time wasting tactics employed by some of the sales team in order to achieve this.
In the end, I went off piste entirely with my purchase and bought a 2010 Boxster 987.2 S from a local independent. Exceptional no nonsense service whilst also figuring that the rate of depreciation would be considerably less on an 8 year old Boxster when compared to a 6 month old M140 with close to 10k miles on the clock.
Comparing apples with pears perhaps, but the attitude of the main dealer has put me off for a long time to come.
I think it comes down to the individual sales person (which says a lot about the sales processes from franchise HQ). I've met some tools from main dealers, and also one or two proper sales people who know how to do a deal.
This may sound snobbish but...
If you can wallop a load of cash on an expensive car, you may have superior deal making skills to the sales person across from you. Their best may seem frustrating. However, another way of looking at it is that you should be able to get a better outcome for you, even if that outcome is walking away.
The last bmw tool I spoke to got pretty angry with me when (after he said "I'm not moving on price, it's the best priced car in the uk") I told him I'd go away and think about it, ring around other dealers and if his was the best deal, I'd come back to him. To the extent that I had to ask him to stop raising his voice, it's just business, I don't really care.
Made me laugh when he rang me a fortnight later trying to shift his car. In the meantime, I'd bought from another dealer where chap was (it seemed to me) transparent and reasonable on his price, my px etc.
This may sound snobbish but...
If you can wallop a load of cash on an expensive car, you may have superior deal making skills to the sales person across from you. Their best may seem frustrating. However, another way of looking at it is that you should be able to get a better outcome for you, even if that outcome is walking away.
The last bmw tool I spoke to got pretty angry with me when (after he said "I'm not moving on price, it's the best priced car in the uk") I told him I'd go away and think about it, ring around other dealers and if his was the best deal, I'd come back to him. To the extent that I had to ask him to stop raising his voice, it's just business, I don't really care.
Made me laugh when he rang me a fortnight later trying to shift his car. In the meantime, I'd bought from another dealer where chap was (it seemed to me) transparent and reasonable on his price, my px etc.
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