Bmw e60 n47d20a wont start
Discussion
Hi, hope someone on here can help me, ill try explain the issue as best as i can, if you need any more information, please ask.
So i have a bmw e60 2007 with the n47d20a engine, the timing chain went on it. It was all replaced, new chain tensioners, valves, rockers etc..
After it was put together - it ran fine without any issues. 2 or 3 days later, driving along and the "power reduced" message come on and the car shut off shortly after. When reading the codes, it come up with 4d03 - Exhaust back pressure sensor, 4ad9 Functional control module monitoring, rail pressure, 4330 - Rail pressure control valve, activation. After seeing these codes, i checked if there is any fuel in the fuel pressure rail, which there wasnt and nothing when craking the engine either. Went and bought all of these 3 sensors and replaced them, the "exhaust back pressure sensor" error is still there after erasing it, the other two codes didnt come back, but - still no fuel in the fuel pressure rail. I removed the intake to take a look at the high pressure fuel pump, i removed the valve from it to see for any dirt or metal filings that suggest that the hpfp was bad - didnt find anything. it was nice and clean, didnt see one bit of metal or dirt. So i tried to crank it with that valve removed - i was soaked in diesel and so was the engine compartment. After putting it all back together, i now have fuel in the fuel pressure rail, quite a bit actually, but the car wont start, it wont even try to start, its as if the injectors are not injecting it in the cilinders. How can i check for injector pulse? i unplugged one of the injectors, and put a bulb in it - it didnt light up when cranking, i put my tester to that plug aswell, nothing was happening whilst cranking it, but it did throw an error after i unplugged it that the injector 1 circuit is open, am i supposed to test for injector pulse while the plug is still plugged in? i tried this on a 2011 1.7cdti vauxhall, unplugged one of the injectors and put my bulb in the plug, it was flashing while i was cranking the engine, but nothing on the bmw? any suggestions at all would be a lot of help, if you need any more information, i will provide it. P.S, if i spray easy start in the intake, the engine starts, so it is a fuel issue 100%.
So i have a bmw e60 2007 with the n47d20a engine, the timing chain went on it. It was all replaced, new chain tensioners, valves, rockers etc..
After it was put together - it ran fine without any issues. 2 or 3 days later, driving along and the "power reduced" message come on and the car shut off shortly after. When reading the codes, it come up with 4d03 - Exhaust back pressure sensor, 4ad9 Functional control module monitoring, rail pressure, 4330 - Rail pressure control valve, activation. After seeing these codes, i checked if there is any fuel in the fuel pressure rail, which there wasnt and nothing when craking the engine either. Went and bought all of these 3 sensors and replaced them, the "exhaust back pressure sensor" error is still there after erasing it, the other two codes didnt come back, but - still no fuel in the fuel pressure rail. I removed the intake to take a look at the high pressure fuel pump, i removed the valve from it to see for any dirt or metal filings that suggest that the hpfp was bad - didnt find anything. it was nice and clean, didnt see one bit of metal or dirt. So i tried to crank it with that valve removed - i was soaked in diesel and so was the engine compartment. After putting it all back together, i now have fuel in the fuel pressure rail, quite a bit actually, but the car wont start, it wont even try to start, its as if the injectors are not injecting it in the cilinders. How can i check for injector pulse? i unplugged one of the injectors, and put a bulb in it - it didnt light up when cranking, i put my tester to that plug aswell, nothing was happening whilst cranking it, but it did throw an error after i unplugged it that the injector 1 circuit is open, am i supposed to test for injector pulse while the plug is still plugged in? i tried this on a 2011 1.7cdti vauxhall, unplugged one of the injectors and put my bulb in the plug, it was flashing while i was cranking the engine, but nothing on the bmw? any suggestions at all would be a lot of help, if you need any more information, i will provide it. P.S, if i spray easy start in the intake, the engine starts, so it is a fuel issue 100%.
What are you using to read the fault codes? It would be useful to read out to rail pressure when cranking as the injectors won’t switch on to start infecting until a certain fuel pressure is reached- I think it’s about 160 or 180bar. You also need 4 bar on the low pressure side. You might have the volume control valve stuck open or a fuel injector leaking off really badly. Worth doing a leak off check.
How many miles have u done since the rebuild?
How many miles have u done since the rebuild?
I have inpa, but, for some reason it wont communicate with the car. I also have delphi, which is just a generic one but it does show the pressure, ill check it and send you the results. And no, it wont stay running with easy start, it just dies straight away because from what i understand, it isnt receiving any fuel from the rail. it will only run on however much of easy spray i spray in it, and i dont have a specific one for diesel engines, its meant for petrol and diesel, so probably no doing it any good spraying that in there. I didnt drive too many miles, maybe about 10? I had it just idling for quite some time as i was still putting it together
Edited by Santoss on Wednesday 4th July 19:20
So i went and checked the pressure, when i connected, it was showing 299.5bar, when cranking, the most it got up to is 430, to get to 430, i had it cranking for about 30 seconds, to 400 it got quickly with the first few spins of the engine, so if we assume that 299.5 is 0, the most it got up to is 130 which is nowhere near 180
So without cranking your getting a reading of 299? Is that just poor software you are using?
Going from what you are saying, then that would be too low pressure wise so the injectors will never inject. Try and check the pre supply pressure, u can normally get an idea from the fuel rail sensor reading with ignition on but not cranking - but looks like your getting a funny reading anyway. Maybe stick a manual gauge on the low pressure circuit after the fuel filter. I’d also be doing a injector leak off test and check your plug connections on the hp fuel pump, pressure sensor and volume control valve on the back of the rail .
If the high pressure is fine then maybe start looking at crank shaft sensor connection- is ur Rev gauge moving up during cranking?
Going from what you are saying, then that would be too low pressure wise so the injectors will never inject. Try and check the pre supply pressure, u can normally get an idea from the fuel rail sensor reading with ignition on but not cranking - but looks like your getting a funny reading anyway. Maybe stick a manual gauge on the low pressure circuit after the fuel filter. I’d also be doing a injector leak off test and check your plug connections on the hp fuel pump, pressure sensor and volume control valve on the back of the rail .
If the high pressure is fine then maybe start looking at crank shaft sensor connection- is ur Rev gauge moving up during cranking?
For the reading, it might be the software. The sensors on each end.of the rail, i bought one sensor seperately, and bought another rail with both those sensors, swapping them around didnt do any good. The crankshaft sensor is fine also, the rpm needle moves to around 250rpm when i crank it. I dont have a manual gauge and i have no idea how to perform a leak down test. At the end of the fuel rail closer to the windscreen, there is a.rubber line that screws in the fuel rail with a banjo bolt. Is this supposed to be the return or what? When i remove that line, there is a lot.of fuel coming out of it, more than there is.coming out of the high pressure line which comes directly from the hpfp. But i dont think that the fuel from that rubber line is getting inside the actual fuel rail, because that valve just isnt capable of opening that much to let any of it inside the fuel rail, or is there supposed to be that much fuel.coming from that line?
Edited by Santoss on Thursday 5th July 13:10
You have a pressure sensor on the front of the rail and a control valve on the back. That rubber hose should be on the return circuit coming out of that control valve and you will have fuel coming out the hose when you disconnect it.
To do an injector leak off test you disconnect the small rubber hose/plastic connections on top of each injector and clamp off the return line at the end, it’s easier with the proper kit with pipes and hoses, but you can do it without, then you can measure how much fuel is leaking back.
If your in Bedfordshire I can give you a hand doin it if you want.
On your computer- you add it reads 299 bar which you are assuming is 0, if you disconnect the fuel pump under the rear seat or take out the fuse - what does it then read - it might give you an idea of the low pressure fuel pressure by comparing the difference.
To do an injector leak off test you disconnect the small rubber hose/plastic connections on top of each injector and clamp off the return line at the end, it’s easier with the proper kit with pipes and hoses, but you can do it without, then you can measure how much fuel is leaking back.
If your in Bedfordshire I can give you a hand doin it if you want.
On your computer- you add it reads 299 bar which you are assuming is 0, if you disconnect the fuel pump under the rear seat or take out the fuse - what does it then read - it might give you an idea of the low pressure fuel pressure by comparing the difference.
I assumed that it is the return hose, but for some reason, there is a lot of fuel coming out of it, i understand that there should be coming some, but didnt think it was that much. Ill check what the readings are with an unplugged fuel pump. bedfordshire is an hour away from me, if you have free time on the weekend, i could come get you, would be awesome if you could help.
Sorry for no response, i didnt fully understand how to do that leak test, but if this helps, there is always fuel coming out of those black things that are on top.of the injectors (while cranking). I was looking around and some guy was walking by and asked me what i was doing. I explained everything to.him, and he had asked his friends that work for AA, and they have said that this could be a fault with the low pressure fuel pump which is located in the interrior under the carpet on the passangers side(i did lift up the carpet, but disnt find anything except for a bunch of wires). Sounded weird, never thought anyone would run fuel lines through the inside of the car, so i looked underneath the car. I found the fuel filter and the fuel heater thing, only found out it is the fuel heater when i typed the part number into ebay. Anyway, with it plugged in or not, the amount of fuel that comes out of there doesnt change, but i guess it shouldnt as it is just the heater? Didnt see anything weird there either, the amount of fuel that was coming out of the filter looked normal, couldnt get more if you wanted to, so i put it all back together, but no change. So ive hit a brick wall again and dont know what to look for, do you have any knowings of a low pressure fuel pump? Because i cant seem to find anything on google or ebay.
Low pressure pump is the lift pump inside the fuel tank- you get to it via lifting the rear seats and opening the top of the tank- but you know it runs at least. You have not proven anything with regards to fuel coming out the filter or injector tops. There will
Always look like plenty of fuel on the return circuit but you need to measure the amount. Same with the low fuel pressure circuit - u need a gauge in the circuit to see exactly what pressure your getting.
Disconnect the plug connection under the rear seat for the pump and read out the high pressure sensor reading. Reconnect it and then compare what the readings are with just ignition on and not cranking -this should give you a good indication of the low fuel pressure.
Injector leak test equipment is £30 on ebay
Always look like plenty of fuel on the return circuit but you need to measure the amount. Same with the low fuel pressure circuit - u need a gauge in the circuit to see exactly what pressure your getting.
Disconnect the plug connection under the rear seat for the pump and read out the high pressure sensor reading. Reconnect it and then compare what the readings are with just ignition on and not cranking -this should give you a good indication of the low fuel pressure.
Injector leak test equipment is £30 on ebay
So i think i found a problem, i dont know if this will fix anything, but, where the top of the high pressure pump is, it is leaking there bad, this could explain the low pressure in the fuel system. But, im not certain that this was there before, because i removed this, and then put it back on without changing that gasket so it might not fix anything, but ill order the gaskets and replace them.
Soo... i cant find any gaskets for sale on ebay.
Soo... i cant find any gaskets for sale on ebay.
Edited by Santoss on Monday 9th July 18:11
Leaking fuel? From what part? Or leaking oil from the gasket that mounts between engine and pump? Did u tighten the pump in the correct sequence and did u tighten the pump sprocket to the pump?
https://www.newfrog.com/product/6-cylinde-diesel-i...
https://www.newfrog.com/product/6-cylinde-diesel-i...
No, not any of them gaskets. The high pressure pump consists of 2 parts it self. You can remove the top of the high pressure pump which is the actual bit that pushes fuel to the fuel pressure rail. Anyway, i tightened the top bit of the high pressure pump a little bit more, and it stopped leaking, but i also noticed that after i tightened it, it started pushing out less fuel then when it was leaking. I checked all of the readings. "Rail pressure" reads 10.0 bar with ignition on, 12.9 when craking, "rail pressure specified" reads 295.5 with ignition on, gets to about 430 when cranking. Low pressure reads 0 with ignition on, and goes to 3900 hPa when cranking, have no idea what the hPa stands for. It isnt throwing any codes, except for exhaust back pressure sensor. Is there actually a low pressure fuel pump on these cars? Or is it a different name for the pump in tank? That same guy came walking past again while i was out there, and he keeps telling me that my problem is with the low pressure pump which should be located under the carpet.
The low pressure pump is the lift pump in the tank, 3900hpa is same as 3.9 bar - Which is the right sort of pressure and if it maintains that pressure whilst cranking then you should be ok. But is that just a specified pressure or an actual readout because I cannot remember if it had a low pressure sensor? And goin by the rail pressure only reading 2.9 that would be a bit too low.
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