A lot say pick the 140i/240i over a 'M' car - Opinions plz?
Discussion
Ok,
So I am a M car convert. The E46 M3 I owned was the best car I have owned, yes the servicing is expensive as are the parts.
However, in terms of the 'M' car experience the E46 was fairly raw. Is the 140i/240i enough of a compromise over a E9X or a M4 and a F80 M3 and could you live with it?
Curious about people who have definitely (albeit contrevisal) picked a non 'M' over a souped upped massive engine car.
A true 'M' is exactly that surely?
So I am a M car convert. The E46 M3 I owned was the best car I have owned, yes the servicing is expensive as are the parts.
However, in terms of the 'M' car experience the E46 was fairly raw. Is the 140i/240i enough of a compromise over a E9X or a M4 and a F80 M3 and could you live with it?
Curious about people who have definitely (albeit contrevisal) picked a non 'M' over a souped upped massive engine car.
A true 'M' is exactly that surely?
cerb4.5lee said:
Its a difficult one and I'd be happy in either a M240i or a M2. The M2 will cost a fair chunk more in insurance/servicing though because of the M tax in comparison...its probably worth it for the better brakes/LSD/sexier bodykit though.
Yeah, and the general driving experience, straight line performance is only part of it,.I had an E46 M3 15 years ago, and now run an M140i.
I certainly don't think you'll be disappointed. There is enough 'M' running through the 'M-lite' to satisfy. The brakes are certainly better! It's more refined and comfortable and the huge mid-range torque means that its quicker in day to day situations. I wouldn't call it a hot hatch however, its too grown up for that, but overall an excellent daily driver with enough grunt and ability to keep a smile on your face.
FWIW - I was looking at the respective power curves the other day. Both cars produce around 340 bhp peak, but at 4500 rpm the E46 makes~230 bhp, whereas the M140i puts out ~330 bhp!
I certainly don't think you'll be disappointed. There is enough 'M' running through the 'M-lite' to satisfy. The brakes are certainly better! It's more refined and comfortable and the huge mid-range torque means that its quicker in day to day situations. I wouldn't call it a hot hatch however, its too grown up for that, but overall an excellent daily driver with enough grunt and ability to keep a smile on your face.
FWIW - I was looking at the respective power curves the other day. Both cars produce around 340 bhp peak, but at 4500 rpm the E46 makes~230 bhp, whereas the M140i puts out ~330 bhp!
Compromise is the right word. I had an M235i for 3 years and it was a great daily driver (this was with a manual gearbox). With the service pack included it was very cheap to run and I didn't have a single problem with it. However they are not as sharp as a full M car and not the sort of car you will want to take out on a sunny weekend just to have a drive really. At around 50% the cost of a full M car they are some what of a bargain IMO.
HannsG said:
Ok,
So I am a M car convert. The E46 M3 I owned was the best car I have owned, yes the servicing is expensive as are the parts.
However, in terms of the 'M' car experience the E46 was fairly raw. Is the 140i/240i enough of a compromise over a E9X or a M4 and a F80 M3 and could you live with it?
Curious about people who have definitely (albeit contrevisal) picked a non 'M' over a souped upped massive engine car.
A true 'M' is exactly that surely?
I would consider myself pretty inexperienced compared to most posters on here when in 2013 I drove a M135i and E92 M3 back to back, see attached. So I am a M car convert. The E46 M3 I owned was the best car I have owned, yes the servicing is expensive as are the parts.
However, in terms of the 'M' car experience the E46 was fairly raw. Is the 140i/240i enough of a compromise over a E9X or a M4 and a F80 M3 and could you live with it?
Curious about people who have definitely (albeit contrevisal) picked a non 'M' over a souped upped massive engine car.
A true 'M' is exactly that surely?
https://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&...
nearly 5 years on, I still wouldn't got for a MLite as they're affectionately named.
I tried compromise (due to high mileage) by owing an E92 335i which has more feel than the newer F generation cars, due I think largely to hydraulic steering.
But I sold it and have for just over 2 years owned an E46 M3 and yes it's kinda raw but the E9X platform added refinement.
M cars make a "better fist" of being a daily driver than a M-Lite can ever claim to be a performance car, in my slightly more experienced (than 2013) opinion
The MLites when it comes to driving fun " kick-ass" against their premium competition but will be surely fall short and be a compromise, if you are a M car convert.
I've had an M235i Convertible for 2 years now and this was a question I put to myself when I was choosing. I'd say that there are four models you'd be looking at:
It has to be said that if out-and-out handling and performance are what you're after then it's the M2. Some of the differences (to the Mx40i) can be retro-fitted to an Mx40, such as a limited slip differential (LSD) but others can't and really, if you want them all, then go for the M2. But of course, as with any such car you have to ask yourself whether the additional handling/performance, 'though outstanding, is something that you can really exploit on public roads.
At the other end, the 135i/140i 4-door is a terrific compromise - able to carry loads and 4 people yet hugely powerful. Coming from a 3 Series I felt that the inside of the 1 was not noticeably smaller than the 3. However, I have to say that on 1/2 owner's forums, most of the handling complaints (e.g. the 'why is my traction control light coming on all the time?') seem to come from 135i/140i owners rather than 235i/240i. I think that 330BHP is just a bit beyond what the stock chassis and non-LSD can handle. But if you don't plan to hit the envelope and like me, just like a powerful 6-cyl engine, then most owners seem very happy with it.
Both the 1 and the 2 M-Lite are improvd if you opt for the adaptive suspension option which I think is good value. I didn't have it on my previous 3 Series and I'd say go for it if you can afford it (which I assume you can if you're considering an M2). Yes, the M2 has a fixed suspension but I think that if you're in the M-Lite category then the adaptive is good value for money - set to Comfort on the DD and Sport/Sport+ when you want sporty.
I've also just retro-fitted the M Performance LSD to my M235i. Yes, it is a very expensive option but it does 'round off the car's overall handling. I don't track it but I do drive it around the Alps in the summer, and deal with a lot of hairpin mountain roads. lThe cornering is much more predictable and I can use the power much earlier in the exit. But it's a hard option to decide on just for a DD. My Man Logic is that I have the LSD because I have RWD and 330BHP. If I just wanted an A->B workhorse, I'd use my Peugeot 206.
After trying it out, I felt that the M235i (now M240i) had a chassis that was just a bit better suited to 330+BHP RWD than the 135i. The 2 can take 2 rear passengers if they really want a lift. Yes, it does carry less luggage than the 1 Series. So it suits if there's just 1 or 2 of you and you don't need to carry larger objects around. Overall, for me, with only two of us to cater for, and another car to haul stuff to the tip etc., I felt it was a good balance of (pretty terrific) engine, good handling and carrying capacity, and covered the need for just-get-me-home-after-a-long-day combined with sportiness.
In the end we also went for a convertible. I'd suggest you at least give one a try. If the dealer says they can't easily get hold of one, go to a different dealer. We had one for 24h and were sold on how even quite mundane journeys are transformed. Of course, that also meant we had to choose the M235i as neither the 1 or the M2 come as a convertible. Subsequently we found that as well as the obvious summer days and holiday trips with the top down, we also put the top down much more than we expected in spring and autumn. Also, the soft-top doesn't use anything like the amount of boot space of a hard-top convertible: we still get two suitcases in the boot with the top down, and space around them to spare.
This isn't meant to be comprehensive and I'm sure other people will have useful and different opinions. Anyway, here it is on the drive:
- M140i
- M240i Coupé
- M240i Convertible
- M2
It has to be said that if out-and-out handling and performance are what you're after then it's the M2. Some of the differences (to the Mx40i) can be retro-fitted to an Mx40, such as a limited slip differential (LSD) but others can't and really, if you want them all, then go for the M2. But of course, as with any such car you have to ask yourself whether the additional handling/performance, 'though outstanding, is something that you can really exploit on public roads.
At the other end, the 135i/140i 4-door is a terrific compromise - able to carry loads and 4 people yet hugely powerful. Coming from a 3 Series I felt that the inside of the 1 was not noticeably smaller than the 3. However, I have to say that on 1/2 owner's forums, most of the handling complaints (e.g. the 'why is my traction control light coming on all the time?') seem to come from 135i/140i owners rather than 235i/240i. I think that 330BHP is just a bit beyond what the stock chassis and non-LSD can handle. But if you don't plan to hit the envelope and like me, just like a powerful 6-cyl engine, then most owners seem very happy with it.
Both the 1 and the 2 M-Lite are improvd if you opt for the adaptive suspension option which I think is good value. I didn't have it on my previous 3 Series and I'd say go for it if you can afford it (which I assume you can if you're considering an M2). Yes, the M2 has a fixed suspension but I think that if you're in the M-Lite category then the adaptive is good value for money - set to Comfort on the DD and Sport/Sport+ when you want sporty.
I've also just retro-fitted the M Performance LSD to my M235i. Yes, it is a very expensive option but it does 'round off the car's overall handling. I don't track it but I do drive it around the Alps in the summer, and deal with a lot of hairpin mountain roads. lThe cornering is much more predictable and I can use the power much earlier in the exit. But it's a hard option to decide on just for a DD. My Man Logic is that I have the LSD because I have RWD and 330BHP. If I just wanted an A->B workhorse, I'd use my Peugeot 206.
After trying it out, I felt that the M235i (now M240i) had a chassis that was just a bit better suited to 330+BHP RWD than the 135i. The 2 can take 2 rear passengers if they really want a lift. Yes, it does carry less luggage than the 1 Series. So it suits if there's just 1 or 2 of you and you don't need to carry larger objects around. Overall, for me, with only two of us to cater for, and another car to haul stuff to the tip etc., I felt it was a good balance of (pretty terrific) engine, good handling and carrying capacity, and covered the need for just-get-me-home-after-a-long-day combined with sportiness.
In the end we also went for a convertible. I'd suggest you at least give one a try. If the dealer says they can't easily get hold of one, go to a different dealer. We had one for 24h and were sold on how even quite mundane journeys are transformed. Of course, that also meant we had to choose the M235i as neither the 1 or the M2 come as a convertible. Subsequently we found that as well as the obvious summer days and holiday trips with the top down, we also put the top down much more than we expected in spring and autumn. Also, the soft-top doesn't use anything like the amount of boot space of a hard-top convertible: we still get two suitcases in the boot with the top down, and space around them to spare.
This isn't meant to be comprehensive and I'm sure other people will have useful and different opinions. Anyway, here it is on the drive:
Edited by msej449 on Wednesday 11th July 19:42
I'd say my m240i makes a good daily, but an average weekend car. I don't have much experience of actual M cars, other than afew drives in a E46 M3, but suspect they have a bit more feel and drama that I'd want at the weekend.
The M lites might offer M2 straight-line performance, but they need better suspension as a starting point, an LSD and some way of generating better steering feel.
The M lites might offer M2 straight-line performance, but they need better suspension as a starting point, an LSD and some way of generating better steering feel.
I own an M140i and I love it. It’s definately a compromise though. The suspension is the most obvious area where it lacks control and feels like they’ve made a conscious effort to make it a bit crap to cut costs but also put some space between it and the proper M cars. That’s pretty easily remedied though from what I’ve heard. It does make a great daily driver though. It’s also a decent family car; ive a 5 and 2 year old and we can manage a weeks holiday in it without any issue.
For me, the compromise is worth it, running costs are reasonable, performance is good and it’s just practical enough to get by as a family car. I’d love an M2/3/4 but the premium just isn’t worth the huge extra for me. Maybe one day.
For me, the compromise is worth it, running costs are reasonable, performance is good and it’s just practical enough to get by as a family car. I’d love an M2/3/4 but the premium just isn’t worth the huge extra for me. Maybe one day.
An E46 M3 raw?
It’s an almost perfect blend imo.
The 40i stuff is nice but ultimately it all comes down to what you want.
I struggle to live with the lifeless steering in our F30.
The 140i is fractionally better and is brisk for sure, but felt a bit bland to just drive at 5/10ths, while the E46 M3 feels alive and interesting at all speeds in comparison.
If you can’t appreciate or use the Ms talents for your usage case, best avoided.
If you can, then a 40i will feel a bit 1 dimensional in comparison really.
It’s an almost perfect blend imo.
The 40i stuff is nice but ultimately it all comes down to what you want.
I struggle to live with the lifeless steering in our F30.
The 140i is fractionally better and is brisk for sure, but felt a bit bland to just drive at 5/10ths, while the E46 M3 feels alive and interesting at all speeds in comparison.
If you can’t appreciate or use the Ms talents for your usage case, best avoided.
If you can, then a 40i will feel a bit 1 dimensional in comparison really.
I had a manual M135i on a 2 year lease from March 2014.
Engine was epic, interior was nice, dealers were inept, steering was terrible, it handled like a boat. It NEEDED an LSD & suspension work.
Bought myself out of it 6 months early. Bought another e46 M3. Was far happier. 6 months later i bought an e90 M3. That was probably even better.
For £15k, an M135i is an excellent, cheap to run, daily hot hatch. But imho you should only really buy one if you simply cant afford to run an e90 M3 instead, the steering on the latter is a million times better, with the engine being a complete and utter masterpiece. It feels like a quick car from the ground up, not a 114i with a turbo'd 3.0 under the bonnet. Spending £25k+ on one? Not in a million years, id rather the e90 M3 and £10k to run it.
I tend to always buy with cash though, so PCP/monthly figures (which new BMW's are great at) is of no real importance.
Engine was epic, interior was nice, dealers were inept, steering was terrible, it handled like a boat. It NEEDED an LSD & suspension work.
Bought myself out of it 6 months early. Bought another e46 M3. Was far happier. 6 months later i bought an e90 M3. That was probably even better.
For £15k, an M135i is an excellent, cheap to run, daily hot hatch. But imho you should only really buy one if you simply cant afford to run an e90 M3 instead, the steering on the latter is a million times better, with the engine being a complete and utter masterpiece. It feels like a quick car from the ground up, not a 114i with a turbo'd 3.0 under the bonnet. Spending £25k+ on one? Not in a million years, id rather the e90 M3 and £10k to run it.
I tend to always buy with cash though, so PCP/monthly figures (which new BMW's are great at) is of no real importance.
I was torn between an M3 and something with the 40i engine in. There's no doubt the M cars are that level above a 'regular' car, they feel a bit more of an event every time you get in the car, that bit more focused.
In reality for me I use my car on the road 90% of the time, I have another car for track purposes so decided I could live without the extra bit of performance. Plus, a big thing for me was the gearboxes. I keep my cars for a long time and didnt like the idea of not being able to service the DCT box on an M car, the ZF can be serviced and dare I say it, is every bit as good as the DCT when using.
In the end I went for a 340i, which made the most sense for me as I was looking at M3s, plus I can up the power and add some noise with the MPPSK and stay in warranty. No doubt it'd show it's shortcomings when pushing on compared to an M3 but I love it as it is, I think a little more noise and it'll be perfect for what I want.
In reality for me I use my car on the road 90% of the time, I have another car for track purposes so decided I could live without the extra bit of performance. Plus, a big thing for me was the gearboxes. I keep my cars for a long time and didnt like the idea of not being able to service the DCT box on an M car, the ZF can be serviced and dare I say it, is every bit as good as the DCT when using.
In the end I went for a 340i, which made the most sense for me as I was looking at M3s, plus I can up the power and add some noise with the MPPSK and stay in warranty. No doubt it'd show it's shortcomings when pushing on compared to an M3 but I love it as it is, I think a little more noise and it'll be perfect for what I want.
Pizzaeatingking said:
plus I can up the power and add some noise with the MPPSK and stay in warranty.
You should definitely do this. Just had mine fitted last weekend through Rybrook in Warwick and it's fantastic. Even though it's only stated as an extra 35bhp / 50nm it's really noticeable. And the noise!!!stuart_83 said:
You should definitely do this. Just had mine fitted last weekend through Rybrook in Warwick and it's fantastic. Even though it's only stated as an extra 35bhp / 50nm it's really noticeable. And the noise!!!
I only got the car a couple of months back so I need to be 'sensible' for a bit but I plan to have it fitted by the end of the year. 
I had an M140, then after 3 months bought the F80 M3CP I should have done in the first place.
Nothing wrong with the 1 Series; though it was just a fast 1 Series. The M3 is on another level when it comes to how it behaves when pushed on and feels as a tool. It's a damn site stiffer, for example.
ZF8 box isn't bad, but I never really used it in manual, whereas the DCT I do when out for a drive. DCT feels like a manual that can do automatic whereas the ZF still feels the other way around (as good as it is).
The engines may have similar specs on paper, but the S engine is far more visceral and responsive. It feels much more like an old school engine compared to the battery-smooth B58.
Yes, the M3 is more expensive, but things that are better often are. The extra will be worth it for some people and not for others.
Nothing wrong with the 1 Series; though it was just a fast 1 Series. The M3 is on another level when it comes to how it behaves when pushed on and feels as a tool. It's a damn site stiffer, for example.
ZF8 box isn't bad, but I never really used it in manual, whereas the DCT I do when out for a drive. DCT feels like a manual that can do automatic whereas the ZF still feels the other way around (as good as it is).
The engines may have similar specs on paper, but the S engine is far more visceral and responsive. It feels much more like an old school engine compared to the battery-smooth B58.
Yes, the M3 is more expensive, but things that are better often are. The extra will be worth it for some people and not for others.
Gassing Station | BMW General | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff