BMW 335d x drive 2016 onwards
Discussion
I’ve been looking for new cars for a while
Golf R estate
Skoda VRS Estate
Passat BiTDI
Sensible option is a Volvo V60 D4 or XC60
But I have stumbled across 335d and it appears I can get low mile 2016-17 for around 20k, which to me is a bargain and basically around 19k off for a nearly new car.
I am no BMW expert, do they cost a fortune to service and run and is there anything I need to look out for ?
Thanks
Golf R estate
Skoda VRS Estate
Passat BiTDI
Sensible option is a Volvo V60 D4 or XC60
But I have stumbled across 335d and it appears I can get low mile 2016-17 for around 20k, which to me is a bargain and basically around 19k off for a nearly new car.
I am no BMW expert, do they cost a fortune to service and run and is there anything I need to look out for ?
Thanks
You can get ok examples for £20k and they’re nice and cheap to run for what they are... sans depreciation.
Deffo get a 16 onwards model as it avoids the recent recall thing for EGR.
Options will bump the price to buy, even though at trade in they’re supposedly worthless.
Ie, I could have bought a bunch for £22-24k at the time but ones with nice specs were more like £26-28k.
Why not look at 340i too?
Deffo get a 16 onwards model as it avoids the recent recall thing for EGR.
Options will bump the price to buy, even though at trade in they’re supposedly worthless.
Ie, I could have bought a bunch for £22-24k at the time but ones with nice specs were more like £26-28k.
Why not look at 340i too?
I’m on my second 335d my first one was a 16 plate M sport + which I kept for 18 months and have now got a 67 plate one shadow edition. I love them I used to have A4s S lines but changed as got a better deal on BMW.
Both cars were/are returning between 46-50 mpg and that’s motorway work in eco pro mode if you drive it a bit lively then consumption goes down to around 41-43 . I’ve never had a problem with either and git rid of the 16 plate with 18600mls on it and still had 5mm on tyres all round,when you put it in sports mode well it’s like driving two different cars and as mine are debadged others think it is a 320. Servicing wise when I got the new one BMW said the package has changed from 5to 3yrs and it’s not worth the money as it would work out cheaper so didn’t get it wished that I had now as it will be at least two services before I replace it.
Comfort I think that are alright,the only thing that I don’t like much is when in sports the steering goes heavier but can live with that,the shadow edition gives you a little more extras than the ordinary M sport as you get upgraded 19in wheels Hand K stereo etc.
The ideal car fir me would be the interior of an Audi and the BMW engine as I didn’t find the engine could stand up to the pun8shment that the BMW can do again personal as at work we had a 3litre A4 Quattro and 330 saloon and tourers and although handling was better in Quattro BMW sorted it on acceleration and top end. Hope you make the right choice as all the cars you have mentioned are good/reasonable you put them in order.
Both cars were/are returning between 46-50 mpg and that’s motorway work in eco pro mode if you drive it a bit lively then consumption goes down to around 41-43 . I’ve never had a problem with either and git rid of the 16 plate with 18600mls on it and still had 5mm on tyres all round,when you put it in sports mode well it’s like driving two different cars and as mine are debadged others think it is a 320. Servicing wise when I got the new one BMW said the package has changed from 5to 3yrs and it’s not worth the money as it would work out cheaper so didn’t get it wished that I had now as it will be at least two services before I replace it.
Comfort I think that are alright,the only thing that I don’t like much is when in sports the steering goes heavier but can live with that,the shadow edition gives you a little more extras than the ordinary M sport as you get upgraded 19in wheels Hand K stereo etc.
The ideal car fir me would be the interior of an Audi and the BMW engine as I didn’t find the engine could stand up to the pun8shment that the BMW can do again personal as at work we had a 3litre A4 Quattro and 330 saloon and tourers and although handling was better in Quattro BMW sorted it on acceleration and top end. Hope you make the right choice as all the cars you have mentioned are good/reasonable you put them in order.
smashy said:
Its not about pumping iron its about the steering being pants in sport ..horrible infact the new G20 is just as bad it seems however the bmw bods are aware of this and are working on it before sign off
There is nothing to work on.It’s a function of a small scrub radius and over assistance because people keep saying they don’t like heavy steering.
To have ‘feel’ from the scrub radius and varying grip forces, also means self aligning torques, which are quite big with big wheels/tyres and high loadings.
All cars are different, but for comparison an MY15 Fiesta ST made my arms tire on fast motorway work along long sweepers due to the self aligning torque.
But it had awesome front end feel so you felt confident driving it at the edge of front end traction both laterally and under power.
It’s NOT hard. It’s not something BMW “work on”...
It’s got s
t steering on purpose because it’s dialled out so weaklings and cretins can drive it without feeling ‘weird’ forces that they don’t understand.Mr Whippy said:
There is nothing to work on.
It’s a function of a small scrub radius and over assistance because people keep saying they don’t like heavy steering.
To have ‘feel’ from the scrub radius and varying grip forces, also means self aligning torques, which are quite big with big wheels/tyres and high loadings.
All cars are different, but for comparison an MY15 Fiesta ST made my arms tire on fast motorway work along long sweepers due to the self aligning torque.
But it had awesome front end feel so you felt confident driving it at the edge of front end traction both laterally and under power.
It’s NOT hard. It’s not something BMW “work on”...
It’s got st steering on purpose because it’s dialled out so weaklings and cretins can drive it without feeling ‘weird’ forces that they don’t understand.
...............Maybe your right maybe your wrong we will seeIt’s a function of a small scrub radius and over assistance because people keep saying they don’t like heavy steering.
To have ‘feel’ from the scrub radius and varying grip forces, also means self aligning torques, which are quite big with big wheels/tyres and high loadings.
All cars are different, but for comparison an MY15 Fiesta ST made my arms tire on fast motorway work along long sweepers due to the self aligning torque.
But it had awesome front end feel so you felt confident driving it at the edge of front end traction both laterally and under power.
It’s NOT hard. It’s not something BMW “work on”...
It’s got s
t steering on purpose because it’s dialled out so weaklings and cretins can drive it without feeling ‘weird’ forces that they don’t understand.Edited by smashy on Sunday 19th August 21:15
Thanks for the input.
My problem is I have to cater for the wife. I am not rich but have just been made redundant so I have some cash that I am not going to save ( life too short) and treat myself to a car. Wife wants a bloody big thing so might have to get her a S-max or get a good 335d but then that means that she will bloody have my pride and joy whilst I go off to work in my old car.
So option is get her the cheap S- max and I can choose a smaller car. So maybe 335d saloon. But they are high maintenance machines so not sure on the diesel option and I don’t intend to use it for work as I will keep my Volvo D5 which in the past 5 years has been superb and at 129k it’s barely run in.
So... since this morning I maybe looking for golf GTI hatch, 335d, Golf R and a weekend toy that I’ll use with family.
My problem is I have to cater for the wife. I am not rich but have just been made redundant so I have some cash that I am not going to save ( life too short) and treat myself to a car. Wife wants a bloody big thing so might have to get her a S-max or get a good 335d but then that means that she will bloody have my pride and joy whilst I go off to work in my old car.
So option is get her the cheap S- max and I can choose a smaller car. So maybe 335d saloon. But they are high maintenance machines so not sure on the diesel option and I don’t intend to use it for work as I will keep my Volvo D5 which in the past 5 years has been superb and at 129k it’s barely run in.
So... since this morning I maybe looking for golf GTI hatch, 335d, Golf R and a weekend toy that I’ll use with family.
Mr Whippy said:
smashy said:
Its not about pumping iron its about the steering being pants in sport ..horrible infact the new G20 is just as bad it seems however the bmw bods are aware of this and are working on it before sign off
There is nothing to work on.It’s a function of a small scrub radius and over assistance because people keep saying they don’t like heavy steering.
To have ‘feel’ from the scrub radius and varying grip forces, also means self aligning torques, which are quite big with big wheels/tyres and high loadings.
All cars are different, but for comparison an MY15 Fiesta ST made my arms tire on fast motorway work along long sweepers due to the self aligning torque.
But it had awesome front end feel so you felt confident driving it at the edge of front end traction both laterally and under power.
It’s NOT hard. It’s not something BMW “work on”...
It’s got s
t steering on purpose because it’s dialled out so weaklings and cretins can drive it without feeling ‘weird’ forces that they don’t understand.In Sport the gearchanges are made sharper and the throttle response is improved too. However the steering weight is hopeless.
Now excuse me, as I’m going to quote directly from PH’s recent article on the forthcoming G20 330M Sport saloon :
“We had a couple of laps of the Nordschleife to interrogate the new 3-Series' handling balance, which on the road seemed very good - though perhaps not quite good enough to rival an Alfa Giulia for sports car like agility and incisiveness. No BMW is ever likely to go quite that far on handling response, however, primarily because the firm's preference is to tune its sportier cars to have plenty of steering weight (because it believes drivers want to be able to brace their body weight against the wheel at times) and the kind of progressive steering response and on-centre stability that makes you confident enough to take one hand off the wheel at big Autobahn speeds - to change the radio station or similar. To BMW's chassis dons, the sheer directness and lightness of an Alfa Giulia's steering causes more problems than it's worth.“
Personally I don’t buy into that theory, Regrettably the problem is some cretin/s at BMW think that heavier steering equates to “sportier” feeling ... when of course anyone with an ounce of sense knows that’s not the case.
A long time ago BMW fell into the trap of mistaking steering weight, for steering feel. The steering weight on the E90 MSport models (and to a lesser degree the E46 models) bore this out.
So forget your scrub radius or any other such technicalities, they’re not the issue here, neither are filtering out “weird feelings” for the hoi polloi. The issue lies with the steering weight changing massively between Comfort and Sport modes, and in the process what was nicely weighted steering (in Comfort) with half decent feedback (for an econo snoozebox) becomes stupidly weighty, borderline “springy” and totally lacking in any real feedback, until of course you’ve driven it in Sport mode for a few minutes and that wonderful thing called the human body, has adapted to it as best it can.
Having weighty steering to enable a fat kraut to brace him/herself in the twisties, shows just how BMW have lost the plot when it comes to building sporting saloons.
Try hustling an E30 M3 along a twisty A or B road at speed, and you’ll see it doesn’t need heavy steering or indeed overly light steering. BMW is trying to make it’s cars all things, to all men/women, and in doing so has applied a binary thought process to address the issue as it sees it ie, light steering for parking, and heavy steering for a 150mph cruise down the autobahn. Unfortunately that heavier, damped feel to the steering that provides a stable feeling arcing through autobahn turns at 150mph, doesn’t really “work” when it comes to hustling the same car down a twisty British A road at 80,90, 100+Leptons.
If BMW were really smart, they’d give the driver the option to adjust the steering weight, throttle response, gearchange speed and EDC damper settings (when fitted), independently of each other, then you could retain the steering weight/feel in Comfort, whilst stiffening the ride and speeding up gearchanges along with improved throttle response found in Sport mode.
Alas life’s not that simple ...
On my 4 series, you can alter the steering weight (and suspension feel) on the iDrive, so you can have Comfort steering with Sport Engine/box mode, and likewise the suspension feel.
This is a bog standard car - no adaptive.
Maybe the 3 series will have this too, unless the SE suspension fitted to the xdrives won't allow this???
This is a bog standard car - no adaptive.
Maybe the 3 series will have this too, unless the SE suspension fitted to the xdrives won't allow this???
Slippydiff said:
The steering in Comfort is nicely weighted, or more accurately it’s a good compromise between weight and feedback. It is also commensurate with the weight of the other controls, ie the brakes and throttle.
In Sport the gearchanges are made sharper and the throttle response is improved too. However the steering weight is hopeless.
Now excuse me, as I’m going to quote directly from PH’s recent article on the forthcoming G20 330M Sport saloon :
“We had a couple of laps of the Nordschleife to interrogate the new 3-Series' handling balance, which on the road seemed very good - though perhaps not quite good enough to rival an Alfa Giulia for sports car like agility and incisiveness. No BMW is ever likely to go quite that far on handling response, however, primarily because the firm's preference is to tune its sportier cars to have plenty of steering weight (because it believes drivers want to be able to brace their body weight against the wheel at times) and the kind of progressive steering response and on-centre stability that makes you confident enough to take one hand off the wheel at big Autobahn speeds - to change the radio station or similar. To BMW's chassis dons, the sheer directness and lightness of an Alfa Giulia's steering causes more problems than it's worth.“
Personally I don’t buy into that theory, Regrettably the problem is some cretin/s at BMW think that heavier steering equates to “sportier” feeling ... when of course anyone with an ounce of sense knows that’s not the case.
A long time ago BMW fell into the trap of mistaking steering weight, for steering feel. The steering weight on the E90 MSport models (and to a lesser degree the E46 models) bore this out.
So forget your scrub radius or any other such technicalities, they’re not the issue here, neither are filtering out “weird feelings” for the hoi polloi. The issue lies with the steering weight changing massively between Comfort and Sport modes, and in the process what was nicely weighted steering (in Comfort) with half decent feedback (for an econo snoozebox) becomes stupidly weighty, borderline “springy” and totally lacking in any real feedback, until of course you’ve driven it in Sport mode for a few minutes and that wonderful thing called the human body, has adapted to it as best it can.
Having weighty steering to enable a fat kraut to brace him/herself in the twisties, shows just how BMW have lost the plot when it comes to building sporting saloons.
Try hustling an E30 M3 along a twisty A or B road at speed, and you’ll see it doesn’t need heavy steering or indeed overly light steering. BMW is trying to make it’s cars all things, to all men/women, and in doing so has applied a binary thought process to address the issue as it sees it ie, light steering for parking, and heavy steering for a 150mph cruise down the autobahn. Unfortunately that heavier, damped feel to the steering that provides a stable feeling arcing through autobahn turns at 150mph, doesn’t really “work” when it comes to hustling the same car down a twisty British A road at 80,90, 100+Leptons.
If BMW were really smart, they’d give the driver the option to adjust the steering weight, throttle response, gearchange speed and EDC damper settings (when fitted), independently of each other, then you could retain the steering weight/feel in Comfort, whilst stiffening the ride and speeding up gearchanges along with improved throttle response found in Sport mode.
Alas life’s not that simple ...
In comfort the f30 has the lightest steering I’ve ever experienced.In Sport the gearchanges are made sharper and the throttle response is improved too. However the steering weight is hopeless.
Now excuse me, as I’m going to quote directly from PH’s recent article on the forthcoming G20 330M Sport saloon :
“We had a couple of laps of the Nordschleife to interrogate the new 3-Series' handling balance, which on the road seemed very good - though perhaps not quite good enough to rival an Alfa Giulia for sports car like agility and incisiveness. No BMW is ever likely to go quite that far on handling response, however, primarily because the firm's preference is to tune its sportier cars to have plenty of steering weight (because it believes drivers want to be able to brace their body weight against the wheel at times) and the kind of progressive steering response and on-centre stability that makes you confident enough to take one hand off the wheel at big Autobahn speeds - to change the radio station or similar. To BMW's chassis dons, the sheer directness and lightness of an Alfa Giulia's steering causes more problems than it's worth.“
Personally I don’t buy into that theory, Regrettably the problem is some cretin/s at BMW think that heavier steering equates to “sportier” feeling ... when of course anyone with an ounce of sense knows that’s not the case.
A long time ago BMW fell into the trap of mistaking steering weight, for steering feel. The steering weight on the E90 MSport models (and to a lesser degree the E46 models) bore this out.
So forget your scrub radius or any other such technicalities, they’re not the issue here, neither are filtering out “weird feelings” for the hoi polloi. The issue lies with the steering weight changing massively between Comfort and Sport modes, and in the process what was nicely weighted steering (in Comfort) with half decent feedback (for an econo snoozebox) becomes stupidly weighty, borderline “springy” and totally lacking in any real feedback, until of course you’ve driven it in Sport mode for a few minutes and that wonderful thing called the human body, has adapted to it as best it can.
Having weighty steering to enable a fat kraut to brace him/herself in the twisties, shows just how BMW have lost the plot when it comes to building sporting saloons.
Try hustling an E30 M3 along a twisty A or B road at speed, and you’ll see it doesn’t need heavy steering or indeed overly light steering. BMW is trying to make it’s cars all things, to all men/women, and in doing so has applied a binary thought process to address the issue as it sees it ie, light steering for parking, and heavy steering for a 150mph cruise down the autobahn. Unfortunately that heavier, damped feel to the steering that provides a stable feeling arcing through autobahn turns at 150mph, doesn’t really “work” when it comes to hustling the same car down a twisty British A road at 80,90, 100+Leptons.
If BMW were really smart, they’d give the driver the option to adjust the steering weight, throttle response, gearchange speed and EDC damper settings (when fitted), independently of each other, then you could retain the steering weight/feel in Comfort, whilst stiffening the ride and speeding up gearchanges along with improved throttle response found in Sport mode.
Alas life’s not that simple ...
In sport it’s still light vs most stuff I’ve owned.
Just out of interest, how do you think sport mode makes the steering heavier?
The only thing that can change is artificial friction which I don’t think the eps can do... or reducing assistance, so letting through the real aligning torque more.
Unless eps can ‘add’ weight, but I’ve no idea how it’d do that unless as said it’s literally adding more force than exists?
Anti-assistance?
Point is, I don’t believe comfort can somehow provide more feel than sport.
The forces into the rack are identical. As are frictions etc.
All that changes is more/less assistance.
Mr Whippy said:
In comfort the f30 has the lightest steering I’ve ever experienced.
In sport it’s still light vs most stuff I’ve owned.
Just out of interest, how do you think sport mode makes the steering heavier?
The only thing that can change is artificial friction which I don’t think the eps can do... or reducing assistance, so letting through the real aligning torque more.
Unless eps can ‘add’ weight, but I’ve no idea how it’d do that unless as said it’s literally adding more force than exists?
Anti-assistance?
Point is, I don’t believe comfort can somehow provide more feel than sport.
The forces into the rack are identical. As are frictions etc.
All that changes is more/less assistance.
Quoted verbatim from here :In sport it’s still light vs most stuff I’ve owned.
Just out of interest, how do you think sport mode makes the steering heavier?
The only thing that can change is artificial friction which I don’t think the eps can do... or reducing assistance, so letting through the real aligning torque more.
Unless eps can ‘add’ weight, but I’ve no idea how it’d do that unless as said it’s literally adding more force than exists?
Anti-assistance?
Point is, I don’t believe comfort can somehow provide more feel than sport.
The forces into the rack are identical. As are frictions etc.
All that changes is more/less assistance.
https://www.motoring.com.au/how-it-works-electric-...
So how does it work?
An electric motor that is mounted on either the steering column or steering gear (usually a rack-and-pinion setup these days) applies torque to the steering column, assisting the driver to turn the steering wheel. Sensors detect the position of the steering wheel and any input from the driver – hauling on the wheel to change the vehicle’s direction. A control module applies assistive torque via the electric motor. If the driver is just holding the wheel steady, at the straight-ahead position, the system doesn’t provide any assistance.
Not only does EPS offer the advantage of improving fuel economy it also has a few other tricks up its sleeve. Being electronic and computer-controlled the EPS system can be programmed for many different attributes.
Engineers can now program variable assistance in for different modes. At parking speeds, for example, maximum assistance delivers easier manoeuvring in and out of parking bays, but at highway speeds the steering assistance is reduced to enhance vehicle stability. With a bit of resistance built into the steering at open-road speeds, the car is less likely to dart around due to the driver over-correcting.
This type of system can now be programmed to support the vehicle’s active safety systems, such as Lane Keep Assist (different manufacturers have different naming conventions), where a camera or laser recognises the road markings, so that when the vehicle drifts out of a lane the steering is activated to bring the vehicle back into the lane.
There are also other subtler functions now possible with EPS. These include camber control to hold the vehicle against the camber without the driver realising, since the steering wheel requires less effort to hold (against the camber of the road). It is also possible to dampen out vibrations that travel up the steering column (caused by bumps and pot holes) with minor changes to the steering effort required to hold the steering wheel in the straight ahead position.
Some drivers claim that electronic power steering has less feel than the old hydraulic systems. This depends on a few factors. The main one is the base set up of the vehicle’s steering geometry (wheel alignment). If the base settings are not good, then programming the power assist to offset those deficiencies is difficult and less than perfect steering feel may result (the same can be said for Hydraulic Power steering also).
Layman's view : If you make any control surface heavier, you make it less feelsome and thus more difficult to modulate. Imagine a large sliding workshop/garage door that weighs (for the sake of argument) 200kgs.
If the tracks and wheels/rollers it slides on are well maintained and lubricated, opening and closing it is easy. It takes little to overcome its inertia (or in laymans terms, it's initial resistance to move).
If you have to open it a 4 feet to get an engine hoist outside to clean an engine, it's easy enough to modulate the amount of effort you need to open it fairly precisely, four feet.
Take the same door with rusty tracks and poorly maintained rollers, then try opening it. Period ! ! Then try opening it precisely 4 feet, it's far trickier as you'll be over-compensating to overcome the increased inertia, which ultimately means controlling it is more difficult.
However, as I said before, the human brain/body is masterful at adapting to such curved balls as EPS weighting.
I found myself in my F30 330D MSport on the run back to my house last night. I hit the Sport button to ensure the best throttle response/quickest gear changes, as I leapfrogged a couple of cars heading into a village. Exiting the same village, I accelerated up to the NSL
but then happened across the first tightening right hand bend, only to find the steering not responding as expected (heavier and thus the car felt like it was understeeeeeering) of course my brain/body/arms compensated before I ran out of road, but I realised what the issue was immediately, and once I'd negotiated the bend, popped the car back into Comfort, and normal service was resumed.rat840771 said:
Thanks for the input.
My problem is I have to cater for the wife. I am not rich but have just been made redundant so I have some cash that I am not going to save ( life too short) and treat myself to a car. Wife wants a bloody big thing so might have to get her a S-max or get a good 335d but then that means that she will bloody have my pride and joy whilst I go off to work in my old car.
So option is get her the cheap S- max and I can choose a smaller car. So maybe 335d saloon. But they are high maintenance machines so not sure on the diesel option and I don’t intend to use it for work as I will keep my Volvo D5 which in the past 5 years has been superb and at 129k it’s barely run in.
So... since this morning I maybe looking for golf GTI hatch, 335d, Golf R and a weekend toy that I’ll use with family.
What about a 335D xdrive GT. Space in the back is bigger than a 7 series.....My problem is I have to cater for the wife. I am not rich but have just been made redundant so I have some cash that I am not going to save ( life too short) and treat myself to a car. Wife wants a bloody big thing so might have to get her a S-max or get a good 335d but then that means that she will bloody have my pride and joy whilst I go off to work in my old car.
So option is get her the cheap S- max and I can choose a smaller car. So maybe 335d saloon. But they are high maintenance machines so not sure on the diesel option and I don’t intend to use it for work as I will keep my Volvo D5 which in the past 5 years has been superb and at 129k it’s barely run in.
So... since this morning I maybe looking for golf GTI hatch, 335d, Golf R and a weekend toy that I’ll use with family.
Slippydiff said:
Quoted verbatim from here :
https://www.motoring.com.au/how-it-works-electric-...
So how does it work?
An electric motor that is mounted on either the steering column or steering gear (usually a rack-and-pinion setup these days) applies torque to the steering column, assisting the driver to turn the steering wheel. Sensors detect the position of the steering wheel and any input from the driver – hauling on the wheel to change the vehicle’s direction. A control module applies assistive torque via the electric motor. If the driver is just holding the wheel steady, at the straight-ahead position, the system doesn’t provide any assistance.
Not only does EPS offer the advantage of improving fuel economy it also has a few other tricks up its sleeve. Being electronic and computer-controlled the EPS system can be programmed for many different attributes.
Engineers can now program variable assistance in for different modes. At parking speeds, for example, maximum assistance delivers easier manoeuvring in and out of parking bays, but at highway speeds the steering assistance is reduced to enhance vehicle stability. With a bit of resistance built into the steering at open-road speeds, the car is less likely to dart around due to the driver over-correcting.
This type of system can now be programmed to support the vehicle’s active safety systems, such as Lane Keep Assist (different manufacturers have different naming conventions), where a camera or laser recognises the road markings, so that when the vehicle drifts out of a lane the steering is activated to bring the vehicle back into the lane.
There are also other subtler functions now possible with EPS. These include camber control to hold the vehicle against the camber without the driver realising, since the steering wheel requires less effort to hold (against the camber of the road). It is also possible to dampen out vibrations that travel up the steering column (caused by bumps and pot holes) with minor changes to the steering effort required to hold the steering wheel in the straight ahead position.
Some drivers claim that electronic power steering has less feel than the old hydraulic systems. This depends on a few factors. The main one is the base set up of the vehicle’s steering geometry (wheel alignment). If the base settings are not good, then programming the power assist to offset those deficiencies is difficult and less than perfect steering feel may result (the same can be said for Hydraulic Power steering also).
Layman's view : If you make any control surface heavier, you make it less feelsome and thus more difficult to modulate. Imagine a large sliding workshop/garage door that weighs (for the sake of argument) 200kgs.
If the tracks and wheels/rollers it slides on are well maintained and lubricated, opening and closing it is easy. It takes little to overcome its inertia (or in laymans terms, it's initial resistance to move).
If you have to open it a 4 feet to get an engine hoist outside to clean an engine, it's easy enough to modulate the amount of effort you need to open it fairly precisely, four feet.
Take the same door with rusty tracks and poorly maintained rollers, then try opening it. Period ! ! Then try opening it precisely 4 feet, it's far trickier as you'll be over-compensating to overcome the increased inertia, which ultimately means controlling it is more difficult.
However, as I said before, the human brain/body is masterful at adapting to such curved balls as EPS weighting.
I found myself in my F30 330D MSport on the run back to my house last night. I hit the Sport button to ensure the best throttle response/quickest gear changes, as I leapfrogged a couple of cars heading into a village. Exiting the same village, I accelerated up to the NSL but then happened across the first tightening right hand bend, only to find the steering not responding as expected (heavier and thus the car felt like it was understeeeeeering) of course my brain/body/arms compensated before I ran out of road, but I realised what the issue was immediately, and once I'd negotiated the bend, popped the car back into Comfort, and normal service was resumed.
I get all that, but eps can’t just add weight.https://www.motoring.com.au/how-it-works-electric-...
So how does it work?
An electric motor that is mounted on either the steering column or steering gear (usually a rack-and-pinion setup these days) applies torque to the steering column, assisting the driver to turn the steering wheel. Sensors detect the position of the steering wheel and any input from the driver – hauling on the wheel to change the vehicle’s direction. A control module applies assistive torque via the electric motor. If the driver is just holding the wheel steady, at the straight-ahead position, the system doesn’t provide any assistance.
Not only does EPS offer the advantage of improving fuel economy it also has a few other tricks up its sleeve. Being electronic and computer-controlled the EPS system can be programmed for many different attributes.
Engineers can now program variable assistance in for different modes. At parking speeds, for example, maximum assistance delivers easier manoeuvring in and out of parking bays, but at highway speeds the steering assistance is reduced to enhance vehicle stability. With a bit of resistance built into the steering at open-road speeds, the car is less likely to dart around due to the driver over-correcting.
This type of system can now be programmed to support the vehicle’s active safety systems, such as Lane Keep Assist (different manufacturers have different naming conventions), where a camera or laser recognises the road markings, so that when the vehicle drifts out of a lane the steering is activated to bring the vehicle back into the lane.
There are also other subtler functions now possible with EPS. These include camber control to hold the vehicle against the camber without the driver realising, since the steering wheel requires less effort to hold (against the camber of the road). It is also possible to dampen out vibrations that travel up the steering column (caused by bumps and pot holes) with minor changes to the steering effort required to hold the steering wheel in the straight ahead position.
Some drivers claim that electronic power steering has less feel than the old hydraulic systems. This depends on a few factors. The main one is the base set up of the vehicle’s steering geometry (wheel alignment). If the base settings are not good, then programming the power assist to offset those deficiencies is difficult and less than perfect steering feel may result (the same can be said for Hydraulic Power steering also).
Layman's view : If you make any control surface heavier, you make it less feelsome and thus more difficult to modulate. Imagine a large sliding workshop/garage door that weighs (for the sake of argument) 200kgs.
If the tracks and wheels/rollers it slides on are well maintained and lubricated, opening and closing it is easy. It takes little to overcome its inertia (or in laymans terms, it's initial resistance to move).
If you have to open it a 4 feet to get an engine hoist outside to clean an engine, it's easy enough to modulate the amount of effort you need to open it fairly precisely, four feet.
Take the same door with rusty tracks and poorly maintained rollers, then try opening it. Period ! ! Then try opening it precisely 4 feet, it's far trickier as you'll be over-compensating to overcome the increased inertia, which ultimately means controlling it is more difficult.
However, as I said before, the human brain/body is masterful at adapting to such curved balls as EPS weighting.
I found myself in my F30 330D MSport on the run back to my house last night. I hit the Sport button to ensure the best throttle response/quickest gear changes, as I leapfrogged a couple of cars heading into a village. Exiting the same village, I accelerated up to the NSL
but then happened across the first tightening right hand bend, only to find the steering not responding as expected (heavier and thus the car felt like it was understeeeeeering) of course my brain/body/arms compensated before I ran out of road, but I realised what the issue was immediately, and once I'd negotiated the bend, popped the car back into Comfort, and normal service was resumed.It reduces assistance thus exposing more of the natural forces present.
It stands to reason that generally you get a similar blend of friction, aligning torque and other forces mixed, culminating in the final ‘feel’ in sport or comfort.
So really it comes down to preference and strength?
Personally I like all the extra weight, not because I think that’s sporty, but because I expect weight when I turn in, aligning torque building up more and more as peak slip angle is reached.
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